I am in a dither....

[Werner]

1 hour ago, Call Me Awesome said:

...back on Live the rule was either slot for MAG 4 or go to MAG 12... there was almost no KB around that was more than 4 but less than 8 so slotting 8 was pointless...

Now that you've jogged my memory, that's what I remember too. Like you, I don't know how true it is currently, but I doubt it's changed.

[Doomguide2005]

18 minutes ago, Werner said:

Now that you've jogged my memory, that's what I remember too. Like you, I don't know how true it is currently, but I doubt it's changed.

Same.  Iirc Fake Nemesis are an example of this.  Their staff attack I want to say is about mag 10 though memories are rusty enough I could be totally off.  

 

At one point I had mag 16 protection on one of my empaths owing to the crazy amounts of trip mines and their kb used by the Malta AV whose name I don't recall in the Tin Mage? I-trial.  They've sjnce toned him down but I can recall be bounced all over the place when it first went live

[WillParkinson]

On 3/10/2020 at 9:37 AM, Obus Form said:

Given the depth OPs question I did not include incarnate powers (melee core, barrier) in the build because it's the grind up there and when those T4s are inactive that is most risky.  Once all T4s are active, esp barrier + melee core, all ATs are ostensibly tanky.

 

@WillParkinsonif you provide a link to your build, and/or design restrictions (such as recharge goals) or desires, I can link a dark/Dark build for you.  Some goals could be to main tank iTrials, or just run +4/8 missions, or take certain powers or want certain percs. 

 

Hi again, @Obus Form

 

I'm going to admit, I don't have a lot of knowledge with Dark Scrappers (obviously, since I was the one who started this post). I'm not sure what they're capable of. I don't beed to tank trials, but would love to run +4/8 missions. The only power I really want to have is Fly, because it's my favorite travel power, and it works with my origin story, but even that isn't a deal breaker. I do like fast recharges, if such a thing is possible with this build. I don't know if that helps any, but I very much appreciate any direction you can give my scrapper.

 

Thank you!

[Jacke]

14 hours ago, WillParkinson said:

Honestly, I'm trying to decide between a Dark/Dark scrapper and tank. They're both characters I'm liking so far, but no clue how well they'll do at 50. I mostly solo, but do an occasional duo with a friend. I'm enjoying my scrapper, especially if the proposed changes to Shadow Maul go through, but that cap on tanks is tantalizing as well.

What @Redlynne and the others have said: Scrapper for more DPS, Tanker for more survivability.  Brute comes in between them for both, but can have builds that approach the damage of Scrappers and the survivability of Tankers, sometimes close to both.  But Tankers will still find it easier to be survivable and Scrappers will still find it easier to get the most out of certain of their own and team damage buffs.

 

But why not both?  Or all three? 🙂  I had planned and well started getting a Dark-Dark toon in every AT as well as many toons with one Dark powerset with an appropriate other powerset.  Like @subbacultchas....

 

7 hours ago, subbacultchas said:

I haven't made a Dark Melee character since the game came back up. But I had plenty before, a DM/SR scrapper that I loved, as well as a DM/Stone Brute that really needed to exist during IOs, as well as a couple more (maybe a /dark blaster). I loved all of them for different reasons, even if they weren't top notch damage. The utility from dark alone was a great pull, as well as extra -to hit for SR and Granite.  Now I think there are more sets that make Dark seem a little more lost, but it's still a fine set and I'm really looking forward to trying it after the slight buffs to it.

Dark powers go so well with others!  I have a Dark-Invulnerable Scrapper and have plans for the Brute and Tanker.  My badger toon is a Dark-Radiation Blast Defender. 🙂

 

 

2 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

I'll admit I haven't really looked at the current state of KB vs KB protection but back on Live the rule was either slot for MAG 4 or go to MAG 12... there was almost no KB around that was more than 4 but less than 8 so slotting 8 was pointless.  MAG 4 would handle the vast majority, but you needed MAG 10 or better to deal with anything that was stronger than 4.

 

I do recall that there's a few KB powers that will beat MAG 12, mostly from Lord Recluse when he's buffed by his tower.

Thanks for mentioning that, @Call Me Awesome.  Jives with what I can recall from Live as well as my experience on Homecoming with 4 Protection.

 

 

18 hours ago, Werner said:

It may or may not be a mistake, but I'll explain my thinking. I'd take it on a Scrapper. But on a Brute, let's say I'm running around at +170% damage from slotting and Fury. Let's say I do 50 DPS raw, 135 DPS with slotting and Fury. Go like that for 35 seconds, and I do 35 * 135 = 4725 points of damage. Now let's say I use Build Up every 35 seconds. Brute Build Up is +80% damage for 10 seconds, with 1.32 seconds Arcanatime cast. So for 10 seconds I do 175 DPS = 1750 damage, for 23.68 seconds I do 135 DPS = 3197 damage, and for 1.32 seconds I do 0 DPS. That's a total of 4947 damage. It's more of course, but it's only 5% more, and it takes my attention away from other things I may need to pay close attention to. That ignores a fair bit of situational utility, mind you. The +20% to hit can be very useful sometimes. It frontloads some damage onto a Brute that usually needs to ramp up. During that ramp up it will have a more significant effect on DPS. (Edit: I'd also want to take a look at the chance for build up proc in build up and how that compares to pure recharge, or what happens if I do both and lose a slot somewhere.) Maybe I'll respec into it at some point. It would be easy to drop Vengeance, say, and lose a little bit of recharge. Or maybe Soul Transfer, and try to not die. But I'm going to go without Build Up for now.

Thanks for that, @Werner.  The running damage enhancement is even higher, I think.  On the Combat Attributes display, on my Brute I see about +180% damage enhancement just from IO set bonuses and Rage; when I pop Build Up, I see around +260%.  And the +90% or so from slotting is on top of that, so it's at around +270%, Build Up to about +350%.  But that just makes your argument stronger.

 

I'm going to do a new build for the Katana-Fiery Aura Brute that drops Build Up.  I'll keep Fiery Embrace, as that's a longer buff (20s) and is extra damage outside of the enhancement cap (about 44% of base damage for all attacks, I think), as well as Fire Damage to boot.

 

Quote

I skipped Rage on my Super Strength/Fire Brute with similar reasoning. Mine's a general-purpose AoE damage machine with mitigation not specifically focused on Fire, so not strictly a farming build, but it's only barely slower than top end farming builds, so I felt like the reasoning worked out well in that case. But there's a big difference - I hate Rage. and I like Build Up. We'll see.

And Rage.  Well...  That still needs changing.  The crashes were removed from the Blast powersets' Tier 9s that had them.  I can see the reasons for crashes.  But the game as played now doesn't handle hard crashes well, partly due to its speed.  Even the minor crash in Radiation Emission's EM Pulse (floors Recovery for 15s) tends to make it a power easy to skip on Defenders, with only Controllers wanting it due to its large hold to leverage the double damage from Containment.  And even the Tier 9 crashes, those removed and those still present, you can just plan to limit the use of the Tier 9.  But Rage is the self-buffing power for attack for Super Strength.  At least Brutes have Fury to make up skipping it.  What about Scrappers and Tankers?  10 seconds every 2 minutes Defense gets a big debuff and the only attacks that do anything are the Veteran Prestige Powers.  Wow.

 

Quote

I'd be willing to run it with one or two Endoplasms only, and just tune the rest of the build for sufficient recovery. I'd at least experiment with that. It might end up six-slotted, but I'd see how few I might be able to get away with while still having an effective power.

That's interesting.  I'll think of giving that a try when I get to building a Dark Armor toon.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Jacke

[WillParkinson]

1 minute ago, Jacke said:

What @Redlynne and the others have said: Scrapper for more DPS, Tanker for more survivability.  Brute comes in between them for both, but can have builds that approach the damage of Scrappers and the survivability of Tankers, sometimes close to both.  But Tankers will still find it easier to be survivable and Scrappers will still find it easier to get the most out of certain of their own and team damage buffs.

 

But why not both?  Or all three? 🙂  I had planned and well started getting a Dark-Dark toon in every AT as well as many toons with one Dark powerset with an appropriate other powerset.  Like @subbacultchas....

 

I actually do have a Dark/Dark tank that I'm playing with a friend. He's only level 13, and we rarely play, but he seems fun. Brutes I've yet to really get into. Not sure why, though.

 

[Werner]

5 minutes ago, Jacke said:

The running damage enhancement is even higher, I think.  On the Combat Attributes display, on my Brute I see about +180% damage enhancement just from IO set bonuses and Rage; when I pop Build Up, I see around +260%.  And the +90% or so from slotting is on top of that, so it's at around +270%, Build Up to about +350%.  But that just makes your argument stronger.

Oops, yeah, Fury damage buff is twice the Fury number I think. So, 50 DPS base would be 50 * (100% + 100% + 140%) = 170 DPS for 35 seconds = 5950, and with Build up 10 sec * 210 DPS + 23.68 sec * 170 DPS = 6126, which is 3% more. Heck, you'd do better running Assault with its measly 10.5% buff for 50 * (100% + 100% + 140% + 10.5%) = 175.25 DPS * 35 sec = 6134. And it would be easier. And you get a little obscure mez resistance. And it benefits the whole team. OK, now I'm more convinced I made the right choice skipping Build Up on my Brute.

[Jacke]

30 minutes ago, Werner said:

Oops, yeah, Fury damage buff is twice the Fury number I think. So, 50 DPS base would be 50 * (100% + 100% + 140%) = 170 DPS for 35 seconds = 5950, and with Build up 10 sec * 210 DPS + 23.68 sec * 170 DPS = 6126, which is 3% more. Heck, you'd do better running Assault with its measly 10.5% buff for 50 * (100% + 100% + 140% + 10.5%) = 175.25 DPS * 35 sec = 6134. And it would be easier. And you get a little obscure mez resistance. And it benefits the whole team. OK, now I'm more convinced I made the right choice skipping Build Up on my Brute.

Build Up appears to be about 6-7% of the enhanced damage.  The 10.5% buff of Assault is 10.5% of the base damage.  Build Up is still 80% of base and Assault is 10.5% of base.  On a toon with usual amounts of slotted and global recharge reduction, Build Up is up for about 25 to 30% of the time so on a single toon, without other considerations, Build Up gives more long term damage enhancement.  But is that worth it for monitoring another power to fire?

 

Standard = Base + Slotting + Fury = 100% + 100% + 140% = 340%

 

Builtup = Standard + 80% = 420%

 

Assault = Standard + 10.5% = 350.5%

 

Cycle of 35s

 

Build Up Cycle = (10s x 420% + 25s x 340%) / 35s = 362.9%

 

Assault Cycle = 350.5%

 

Build Up can be triggered right before hard hitting attacks for stronger effect.  But if those attacks are on cool down, then Build Up has either lesser effect or has to be delayed, for a lower duty cycle.  It still may not be enough extra damage to be worth having to add it in as another power to monitor and cast as needed.  Assault is turn it on and only worry about Endurance, which is already something to monitor.  And as you mentioned, @Werner, there's the extra Taunt and Placate resistance from Assault and the benefit to the team (especially if more team members have it),

Edited March 12, 2020 by Jacke

[Werner]

10 minutes ago, Jacke said:

Build Up Cycle = (10s x 420% + 25s x 340%) / 35s = 362.9%

What that calculation misses is that while you're firing off Build Up, which takes 1.32 seconds out of your chain, you do 0% damage. That's why I used 23.68 seconds instead of 25 seconds.

 

Build Up cycle = (10s * 420% + 23.68s * 340% + 1.32s * 0%) / 35s = 350.0%

 

As mentioned earlier, the utility of Build Up does go beyond a simple sustained DPS calculation, but so does the utility of Assault.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Werner

[Obus Form]

1 hour ago, WillParkinson said:

Hi again, @Obus Form

 

I'm going to admit, I don't have a lot of knowledge with Dark Scrappers (obviously, since I was the one who started this post). I'm not sure what they're capable of. I don't beed to tank trials, but would love to run +4/8 missions. The only power I really want to have is Fly, because it's my favorite travel power, and it works with my origin story, but even that isn't a deal breaker. I do like fast recharges, if such a thing is possible with this build. I don't know if that helps any, but I very much appreciate any direction you can give my scrapper.

 

Thank you!

Hey @WillParkinson

 

Attached below is a build that achieves almost 45% defense to S/L.  I put this build together making several assumptions (see below) and how my build will meet your assumptions.  If the assumptions are wrong, the build can be updated.  If there are several assumptions or choices you don't understand, feel free to ask me/the forum =).  No shame to ask.  The only shame is to assume without understanding why.

 

Assumptions

1) You wanted Dark Melee/Dark Armour for a scrapper, capable of soloing +4/8 missions, therefore you inadvertently need 45% S/L softcapped defenses.  You want to Fly.

2) Convenience.  You want defensive powers that you don't have to manage (click), and specifically are on always.  This is important because there were several design choices made to give you this Convenience. 

3) Assuming assumptions 1) and 2) are met, you want recharge

4) Assuming assumptions 1) 2) and 3) are met, you want damage

 

Choice reasoning:

- Assumptions from 1) are met except 45% S/L defense softcap.  45% is the softcap goal, but I am at 44.8%.  It is very close and good enough to solo +4/8 but not the same as 45%.  We are at 44.8% because I assume you do not want to switch from Fly to Hover everytime you are in combat.  Hover gives you that extra defense to reach 45%.  You can easily switch from Flying to Hovering if you are okay using a macro to swap between those 2 powers.  However, given your post count and depth of the question, I assume you have not used macros yet or may not feel comfortable using them/making macros, and want the powers to just "keep you safe" without management.

- Assumption 2) Convenience.  As per above, for the sake of you not having to change between Fly and Hover, I chose to slot your powers in such a way that does not require the Defense buff from Hover.  All your other defensive powers are automatic, except your heal (see the playstyle expanation below). 

- Assumption 2) Convenience.  I assume you do not want to micro manage your endurance gain.  As such I chose to take as much passive Endurance recovery as possible.  Please get the accolades Portal Jockey and Atlas Medallion.

- Assumption 3) Recharge.  You do not have enough Recharge to get perma hasten because the slotting and Enhancement choices are made to reach the 45% S/L defense soft cap.  You have 133.8% recharge, which is about 17 seconds away from perma hasten.  You will need to +5 (enhancement boost) your 2 recharge enhancements in Hasten

- Assumption 4) Damage. Having met the above 3 assumptions, everything else is just gravy.  The Scrapper IOs are slotted to maxmize the journey to reaching 45% S/L defense softcap, and the other scrapper IO (global crit) is used.   This also means for your incarnate powers, Alpha slot, you will get Musculature Radial Paragon.  This helps your damage and Endurance Recovery.

 

Playstyle:

- Set Hasten to autocast.  Ctrl + Click on Hasten to do this.  You will see a green circle.

- When you run into a group of mobs, and they are within 10 feet of you, press SOUL DRAIN to boost your damage for 30 seconds.  The power recharges in 37 seconds so... its up every group or 2nd group of enemies.

- When you are low on health, stand near an enemy and use Dark Regeneration. 

- If you just want to top up your health, use Siphon life, which is already part of your normal attack chain.

- The one thing you have to understand is Cascading Defence Failure.  If you do not understand it yet, please look it up on the forums.  It essentially means you cannot stand there eating Defense debuffs (from AVs such as Positron).  You have to allow time to let those debuffs fall off you, or use Incarnate power Barrier, or eat Purple Candy.

- Lastly, This build costs approx 600-800 million influence.  If you need funding or want to learn how to make money, ask.

 

 

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(37), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(3), UnbGrd-ResDam(3), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(5), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(5)
Level 2: Death Shroud -- SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(9), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(11)
Level 4: Murky Cloud -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(15), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15), UnbGrd-ResDam(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(17)
Level 6: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(A), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg(40), SprCrtStr-Dmg/Rchg(40), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprCrtStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 10: Obsidian Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(19), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(21)
Level 12: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(21), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(23), UnbGrd-Max HP%(23)
Level 16: Cross Punch -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Arm-Acc/Rchg(42), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(43), Arm-Dmg(43)
Level 18: Dark Regeneration -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(45), Prv-Heal/Rchg(46), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(46), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(46), Prv-Heal(48)
Level 20: Cloak of Darkness -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(25), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(27), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 22: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(25), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(33), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(33), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(27), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(29), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(29), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 26: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(45), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- Obl-%Dam(A), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Obl-Dmg(48), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(50), Obl-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(36)
Level 35: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Soul Transfer -- DctWnd-Rchg(A)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-EndMod(A)
Level 44: Hover -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(39), Rct-ResDam%(34)
Level 47: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(11), Mrc-Rcvry+(13)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(13)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment
------------

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Obus Form

[Call Me Awesome]

24 minutes ago, Werner said:

What that calculation misses is that while you're firing off Build Up, which takes 1.32 seconds out of your chain, you do 0% damage. That's why I used 23.68 seconds instead of 25 seconds.

 

Build Up cycle = (10s * 420% + 23.68s * 340% + 1.32s * 0%) / 35s = 350.0%

 

As mentioned earlier, the utility of Build Up does go beyond a simple sustained DPS calculation, but so does the utility of Assault.

I kind of look at Build up powers as useful for an alpha strike on a primary damage character.  On my Elec/SD stalker it's BU/LR/SC/Fireball/Chain/Thunderstrike/ for the initial alpha strike.  I haven't run the numbers but most of that will benefit from BU... I mainly use it to boost the two nukes, if the nukes are up so is BU.  My Fire/EM Blaster uses Aim/BU/Nuke/Fireball/ as the opener.

 

By the way, anyone know if the buff lasts for an attack if the animation starts at 9 seconds in but doesn't finish until 11?

 

On the other hand, I never take BU on a Tanker; my purpose is aggro and durability first and foremost with damage coming second so BU is an easy skip to make room for more useful powers.

[Werner]

9 minutes ago, Call Me Awesome said:

I kind of look at Build up powers as useful for an alpha strike on a primary damage character.... On the other hand, I never take BU on a Tanker...

That's how I look at it too. I'd take it on a Scrapper. Much better alpha strike capability than a Brute, and a better boost to sustained DPS as well.

[NEW DAWN]

On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2020 at 1:31 PM, Werner said:

Although I switched to Oppressive Gloom on my Brute, I ran Cloak of Fear on my Scrapper. I never tested this, but my understanding from others was that even though Death Shroud means that the feared minions could attack you, they would do so at a reduced frequency. Also, my Scrapper was initially intended as an AV soloer, and sometimes for that I found it useful to turn off Death Shroud and use a crowd of feared and helpless minions as Dark Regeneration fodder for the duration of the fight. Unlike Oppressive Gloom, it shuts them down almost completely like that, no wandering out of range and attacking you with ranged attacks before running back in. And of course it doesn't drain your own health like Oppressive Gloom. I don't like the high endurance cost, though. And nothing I just said is disagreeing with you - Cloak of Fear is situational.

 

I also think Soul Transfer is skippable, as I prefer to never die, but if I do die while solo, it's nice to get right back in the action without a trip to the hospital. I took it on my Brute, but I think I skipped it on my Scrapper.

This is where I come from too, people say Dark Armour is end heavy, it's not because you don't have to run everything all of the time, part of being good with your character is knowing your enemies, some powers are wasted on enemies, some less so, some not at all. They're situational. I found I didn't even have to use an attack with my character levelling up versus Crey, I was just a dark cloud of doom, stand there let my toggles do the work. Whatever character I am on I have had a kill list levelling up, you're first, you're next and then the whole npc group is easier. Dark regeneration or consumption fodder is like an Invuln keeping mobs alive to improve defense as it tanks an AV, it works.

Edited March 12, 2020 by NEW DAWN

[WillParkinson]

5 hours ago, Obus Form said:

Hey @WillParkinson

 

Attached below is a build that achieves almost 45% defense to S/L.  I put this build together making several assumptions (see below) and how my build will meet your assumptions.  If the assumptions are wrong, the build can be updated.  If there are several assumptions or choices you don't understand, feel free to ask me/the forum =).  No shame to ask.  The only shame is to assume without understanding why.

 

Assumptions

1) You wanted Dark Melee/Dark Armour for a scrapper, capable of soloing +4/8 missions, therefore you inadvertently need 45% S/L softcapped defenses.  You want to Fly.

2) Convenience.  You want defensive powers that you don't have to manage (click), and specifically are on always.  This is important because there were several design choices made to give you this Convenience. 

3) Assuming assumptions 1) and 2) are met, you want recharge

4) Assuming assumptions 1) 2) and 3) are met, you want damage

 

Choice reasoning:

- Assumptions from 1) are met except 45% S/L defense softcap.  45% is the softcap goal, but I am at 44.8%.  It is very close and good enough to solo +4/8 but not the same as 45%.  We are at 44.8% because I assume you do not want to switch from Fly to Hover everytime you are in combat.  Hover gives you that extra defense to reach 45%.  You can easily switch from Flying to Hovering if you are okay using a macro to swap between those 2 powers.  However, given your post count and depth of the question, I assume you have not used macros yet or may not feel comfortable using them/making macros, and want the powers to just "keep you safe" without management.

- Assumption 2) Convenience.  As per above, for the sake of you not having to change between Fly and Hover, I chose to slot your powers in such a way that does not require the Defense buff from Hover.  All your other defensive powers are automatic, except your heal (see the playstyle expanation below). 

- Assumption 2) Convenience.  I assume you do not want to micro manage your endurance gain.  As such I chose to take as much passive Endurance recovery as possible.  Please get the accolades Portal Jockey and Atlas Medallion.

- Assumption 3) Recharge.  You do not have enough Recharge to get perma hasten because the slotting and Enhancement choices are made to reach the 45% S/L defense soft cap.  You have 133.8% recharge, which is about 17 seconds away from perma hasten.  You will need to +5 (enhancement boost) your 2 recharge enhancements in Hasten

- Assumption 4) Damage. Having met the above 3 assumptions, everything else is just gravy.  The Scrapper IOs are slotted to maxmize the journey to reaching 45% S/L defense softcap, and the other scrapper IO (global crit) is used.   This also means for your incarnate powers, Alpha slot, you will get Musculature Radial Paragon.  This helps your damage and Endurance Recovery.

 

Playstyle:

- Set Hasten to autocast.  Ctrl + Click on Hasten to do this.  You will see a green circle.

- When you run into a group of mobs, and they are within 10 feet of you, press SOUL DRAIN to boost your damage for 30 seconds.  The power recharges in 37 seconds so... its up every group or 2nd group of enemies.

- When you are low on health, stand near an enemy and use Dark Regeneration. 

- If you just want to top up your health, use Siphon life, which is already part of your normal attack chain.

- The one thing you have to understand is Cascading Defence Failure.  If you do not understand it yet, please look it up on the forums.  It essentially means you cannot stand there eating Defense debuffs (from AVs such as Positron).  You have to allow time to let those debuffs fall off you, or use Incarnate power Barrier, or eat Purple Candy.

- Lastly, This build costs approx 600-800 million influence.  If you need funding or want to learn how to make money, ask.

 

 

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(37), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(3), UnbGrd-ResDam(3), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(5), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(5)
Level 2: Death Shroud -- SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(9), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(11)
Level 4: Murky Cloud -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(15), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15), UnbGrd-ResDam(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(17)
Level 6: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(A), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg(40), SprCrtStr-Dmg/Rchg(40), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprCrtStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 10: Obsidian Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(19), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(21)
Level 12: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(21), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(23), UnbGrd-Max HP%(23)
Level 16: Cross Punch -- Arm-Dam%(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Arm-Acc/Rchg(42), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(43), Arm-Dmg(43)
Level 18: Dark Regeneration -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(45), Prv-Heal/Rchg(46), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(46), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(46), Prv-Heal(48)
Level 20: Cloak of Darkness -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(25), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(27), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 22: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(25), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(33), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(33), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(27), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(29), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(29), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 26: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(45), AdjTrg-EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- Obl-%Dam(A), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Obl-Dmg(48), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(50), Obl-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(36)
Level 35: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Soul Transfer -- DctWnd-Rchg(A)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-EndMod(A)
Level 44: Hover -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(39), Rct-ResDam%(34)
Level 47: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(11), Mrc-Rcvry+(13)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(13)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment
------------

 

 

 

 

 

 A question if I may? With the proposed changes to Shadow Maul, would you take the power or skip it? (Assuming the go live as suggested.)

[Obus Form]

17 minutes ago, WillParkinson said:

 A question if I may? With the proposed changes to Shadow Maul, would you take the power or skip it? (Assuming the go live as suggested.)

Likely yes I would take shadowmaul.  But it seems all the Dark Melee updates were cancelled?

[WillParkinson]

1 minute ago, Obus Form said:

Likely yes I would take shadowmaul.  But it seems all the Dark Melee updates were cancelled?

WHAT? NOOOOOOOO! I was so looking forward to those. 😞

[Redlynne]

This is why you build for how the game currently IS ... not for how you wish is MIGHT BE ...

[Sir Myshkin]

22 minutes ago, Obus Form said:

Likely yes I would take shadowmaul.  But it seems all the Dark Melee updates were cancelled?

Unless I've missed a further update, the current state of it is that Shadow Maul is moving forward, but Dark Consumption is reverted to normal, and will not be getting any further alterations at this time.

[WillParkinson]

12 hours ago, Redlynne said:

This is why you build for how the game currently IS ... not for how you wish is MIGHT BE ...

This is from the forums, posted on Sunday:

 

Dark Melee Update

• Dark Melee was seriously underperforming in the AoE department. These changes are aimed to increase the AoE potential of the set whilst having minimal impact on the single target potential.
• Shadow Maul (Tanker, Scrapper, Brute, Stalker) is now a much larger, faster cone that's actually capable of easily hitting multiple targets - especially on tanks!
  • Arc increased from 45 to 120 degrees
  • Recharge increased from 8 to 11 seconds
  • Cast Time reduced from 3.07 to 2.35 seconds
  • Damage lowered from scale 2.156 to 1.6184
    • DPS reduction is minor, it has only been lowered from scale 0.653 to scale 0.645
  • Target Cap increased from 10 to 16 for Tankers
  • Target Cap increased from 5 to 10 for Scrappers, Brutes and Stalkers
• Dark Consumption (Tanker, Scrapper, Brute)
  • Changes to Dark Consumption have been reverted to the live version

 

Now, I have zero idea what any of this means. I'm not a theory crafter by any stretch of the imagination. If they did cancel them, I'll live and adapt. Either way, I thank you so so so much for the build. And yes, I can drop fly to take Hover. That extra bit of defense will always be a good thing! 🙂

 

Oh, and I am never averse to learning how to make money, if you don't mind sharing tips.

Edited March 13, 2020 by WillParkinson

[Jacke]

What @Redlynne said.  Build for the game now.  And right now, I'd say Shadow Maul is not a power to skip.  Even going back to @The_Gamemaster's article back in Issue 6, he mentioned people skipping Shadow Maul.  But he only did on PvP builds.  He also mentioned learning to move and use Shadow Maul to make it hit multiple targets was the way to fight with Dark Melee, putting out more damage.  (That same positioning skill can also help Sands of Mu, both the Temporary Power and the more permanent one from the old Veteran Prestige Attacks.)

 

And as @Sir Myshkin  and @WillParkinson have said, the proposed changes for Dark Melee still include the changes for Shadow Maul, making it better for all ATs.  Only the proposed changes to Dark Consumption turning it into Dark Equilibrium are being reverted to current Homecoming Live.

 

 

6 hours ago, Werner said:

That's how I look at it too. I'd take [ Build Up ] on a Scrapper. Much better alpha strike capability than a Brute, and a better boost to sustained DPS as well.

Right now on my Katana-Fiery Aura Brute, I normally want to fire Fiery Embrace and Build Up to buff Burn and Lotus Drops (both PBAoEs), then going into my big ST attacks.  But it leads to me tending to delay firing them to get the cooldowns to match.  So it's FE plus BU, then BU (FE takes about twice as long to recharge).  And they don't quite match the ST chains.  As well, managing two damage buffs as well as a the self-heal Healing Flames and the enemy auto-target endurance restorer Consume gets complex on top of everything else.

 

On a Fiery Aura Brute, I think dropping Build Up and just going with Fiery Embrace is better.  Working in Assault in place of Build Up is likely even better, as @Werner showed even in the best case, Assault and Build Up are about the same in increasing overall damage output.  That's likely the same for Tankers too. 

 

Scrappers and especially Stalkers with the chance to get extra damage from crits and some attacks having higher chances for crits can make a better case for Build Up, especially if there's a small number of click powers for a particular toon powerset combination to monitor.  Stalkers have more synergy between Build Up and their big assassinate attack, so I'd say take it on them.

 

However, I'd be tempted not to take Build Up even on Scrappers, especially if I could fit in Assault.  It's likely keeping the focus on positioning and attacks can make the Scrapper perform better.  This is certainly true of Shadow Maul.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Jacke

[Linea]

Nice to see you again Werner.

 

I've got to go back and read this whole thread now. 

In the meantime, Here's one of my Kat/Dark builds. 

Kat / Dark Brute - Black Cat m3d:

Spoiler

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Katana
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Sorcery
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Gambler's Cut -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(5), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(7)
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(9)
Level 2: Death Shroud -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(11), Obl-Dmg(11), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Obl-%Dam(15)
Level 4: Murky Cloud -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(21), GldArm-3defTpProc(21)
Level 6: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23), GssSynFr--Build%(50)
Level 8: Divine Avalanche -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Hct-Acc/Rchg(25), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(25), Hct-Dam%(27), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(27)
Level 10: Obsidian Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(29), UnbGrd-Max HP%(29)
Level 12: Maneuvers -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(31), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(31), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(31), Rct-ResDam%(33), Ksm-ToHit+(33)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 16: Dark Regeneration -- FuroftheG-Acc/End/Rech(A), TchoftheN-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34), DctWnd-EndRdx/Rchg(34), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(34), ThfofEss-+End%(50)
Level 18: The Lotus Drops -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(37)
Level 20: Cloak of Darkness -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(37), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(39)
Level 22: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Ags-ResDam(39)
Level 26: Soaring Dragon -- SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), SprBrtFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprBrtFur-Rech/Fury(42)
Level 28: Weave -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(42), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(42)
Level 30: Mystic Flight -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Golden Dragonfly -- SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprUnrFur-Dmg/Rchg(43), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), SprUnrFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprUnrFur-Rchg/+Regen/+End(45)
Level 35: Electrifying Fences -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(48)
Level 38: Spirit Ward -- Prv-Absorb%(A)
Level 41: Rune of Protection -- Ags-ResDam/Rchg(A), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg(48), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Ags-ResDam(50)
Level 44: Tactics -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Oppressive Gloom -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(15), Pnc-Heal/+End(17)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(17), EffAdp-EndMod(19)
Level 0: Kinetic Shield
------------

 

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[TheMuna]

On 3/7/2020 at 11:24 AM, WillParkinson said:

 

So my last toon (or second to last) on live was a dark/dark scrapper. It was my favorite concept so it was my first toon coming back. I won't lie, I was somewhat disappointed. After putting inf in and getting my def up a bit my survivability was still not what I would have liked even with Incarnates and everything. But I think that was a lack of knowledge coming back. Most of my playing on live was pre-i6. So I didn't really know how to best use IO sets or the newer pools/power changes.  Damage hadn't changed much but everything else did. I re-rolled as dark/shield and long story short, everything is amazing now. New char is a god.

 

 

Dark is fantastic. But you have to know how to maximize the damage of dark melee and work out being in huge mobs but taking everything out one at a time with 1-2 hits each. And you have to learn to throw in defense with your mostly resistance set to offset debuffs and secondary effects.  I can remake my dark/dark to God status with what I've learned from other people in game and on the forums over the last months. Hell, my dark/dark probably has just as much potential than my dark/shield.

 

But people complain about dark sets because they're not simple. Dark melee is single target focusing with buffs that need mobs. And dark armor is a resistance set which isn't the favorite for scrappers at the moment. But I love me some cloak of Darkness and death shroud feels good to me. Sets like Katana and shield defense are simple to use and easier for a new player but don't let that discourage you from making something that's your own and that you will love, especially with all the potential it has.

[ninja surprise]

On 3/7/2020 at 9:24 AM, WillParkinson said:

Okay, long story short. Last night someone in chat asked about dark melee/dark armor for Tanks, Brutes, and Scrappers. They were told pretty much unanimously that dark anything sucks. Horribly. One guy went so far as to tell the person who said he enjoyed it that he was sorry the player never tried a good toon.

How to put this delicately: Some people, who feel inferior, think they have to tear down that which is superior, in order to feel better about themselves. Other people are just trolls.

 

Dark/Dark's a great combo, here's why: Things that people complain about in Dark Armor are addressed in Dark Melee, and vice-versa.

DM is light on AoE - DA has Death Shroud

DA is an endurance hog - DM has Dark Consumption to solve your endurance woes.

Cloak of Fear is Mag 2, add a Mag 3 Touch of Fear and you've scared the boss.

Soul Drain is a fantastic build up and buffs your DA cloak attacks in addition to your primary attacks.

Dark Armor provides probably the most Psi resist of any armor set and can be built with tons of defense and overall resist, as shown by builds posted here.

 

The only real drawback is that you may never see your costume again.

 

Looking at other ATs all the various Dark powersets are pretty darn sweet. 

 

[Werner]

14 minutes ago, ninja surprise said:

The only real drawback is that you may never see your costume again.

Easily fixed by customizing the look of your powers. There's no need to run around as the puff ball of doom anymore.

[TheMuna]

36 minutes ago, ninja surprise said:

How to put this delicately: Some people, who feel inferior, think they have to tear down that which is superior, in order to feel better about themselves. Other people are just trolls.

 

Dark/Dark's a great combo, here's why: Things that people complain about in Dark Armor are addressed in Dark Melee, and vice-versa.

DM is light on AoE - DA has Death Shroud

DA is an endurance hog - DM has Dark Consumption to solve your endurance woes.

Cloak of Fear is Mag 2, add a Mag 3 Touch of Fear and you've scared the boss.

Soul Drain is a fantastic build up and buffs your DA cloak attacks in addition to your primary attacks.

Dark Armor provides probably the most Psi resist of any armor set and can be built with tons of defense and overall resist, as shown by builds posted here.

 

The only real drawback is that you may never see your costume again.

 

Looking at other ATs all the various Dark powersets are pretty darn sweet. 

 

Dark/dark controllers are awesome. late bloomer but really turns into something from what's I've seen. Dark Tanks have some of the highest resistances (to ALL damage), a very good damage/taunt aura, and some of the highest damage numbers once you can keep soul drain up. A dark Defender was my first toon and it turns tough enemies into cotton candy for the team. Can't speak to the other ATs but probably just as good.

 

[ninja surprise]

19 hours ago, Werner said:

Easily fixed by customizing the look of your powers. There's no need to run around as the puff ball of doom anymore.

Heresy! The doomcloud must flow!