Electrical Affinity "seizure" animations on allies

[ZacKing]

13 minutes ago, Naraka said:

If I were being obtuse, more people would be saying I'm being insensitive or some such.

Yeah fallacies don't work dude.  You're being obtuse, but enough with derailing.  Agree to disagree and move along. 

[Naraka]

5 hours ago, ZacKing said:

Yeah fallacies don't work dude.  You're being obtuse, but enough with derailing.  Agree to disagree and move along. 

I thought fallacies don't work. 

Ad hominem.

Proof by assertion.

Argument from fallacy.

 

I'm sure deflecting to something being off topic and then stating "Agree to disagree and move on" and then disappearing is some sort of fallacy I'm not aware of because I'm not trying to pick apart people's intent by looking through a list of fallacies to point at...and isn't it rather hypocritical to assert someone is committing argumentum ad populum while you then commit argument from authority (or false authority since it's just wikipedia)? I mean, don't commit a fallacy while accusing others of a fallacy.

[Keen]

 I appreciate all the responses even the negative ones. I'd like to address some of them.

 

On 4/2/2020 at 1:38 AM, ArchVileTerror said:

Generally, Naraka, it's my understanding that it comes down to context, situational expectations, and the perceived risk of griefing.

A player can "psyche themself up" before going up against an enemy which they know has interactions or content which they find distressing or personally harmful (or simply avoid that enemy all together in some cases) and still have the opportunity to play the game.

However, should a fellow player be able to perform a "drive-by buffing" with absolutely no warning or contextual clues, it can be rather upsetting.  Particularly since there are players out there who strongly empathize with their character, and a loss of agency for the character translates to a loss of self-empowerment for the player.

 

Short version:  Not everyone's the same, and some people are more sensitive to crap they find harmful than other players.

 

This was nicely put, thank you.

 

On 4/1/2020 at 2:12 PM, Bentley Berkeley said:

And saying this animation is some kind of huge trigger vs say all of the nazi themes in our game that really can stir up players and lead to some real bigotry fueled tirades just seems well overblown in the outrage department.

 

People are different. Different things can affect people in different ways. Here's one example (of many):

 

On 4/1/2020 at 11:49 PM, Bentley Berkeley said:

Hell seeing the animals in beast mastery die is frankly to me far far far more disturbing then this animation your so riled up about.

I am not an animal lover. Seeing the dogs drop dead when the MM changes zones does not trigger me in any way. But again, people are different. You are disturbed by it and you also mention your animal lover friend who gets upset by it. That does not give me the right to diminish your or their feelings (like you're doing to mine) just because you don't feel the same way. I'd wholeheartedly support a change to make the animals not die, and this is the type of thing that doesn't even need to be an option. There's precedent for this now with the April Fool's child despawn. Intriguingly enough, a number of people were sad about the kid no longer ragdolling aka "dying" when the owner changed zones.

  

On 4/1/2020 at 7:49 PM, Bentley Berkeley said:

If we can do it to mobs, having it done to our characters is simply logical.

It is logical if an enemy is doing it to us (which has happened forever and I don't have any issues with it), but not from an ally.

 

On 4/1/2020 at 7:49 PM, Bentley Berkeley said:

As others have pointed out this animation isnt even noticed when actively playing between the myriad attack animations and buff animations etc.

I wish that was the case, but one week later I constantly see myself being electrocuted (playing the animation) while attacking green mitos in Hamidon raids due to the much more frequent chain spam. I can only overcome that if I fill my attack chain 100% of the time and that's not always the case. Knowing that the effect is not caused by an enemy is even more aggravating.

 

On 4/1/2020 at 2:15 PM, Bentley Berkeley said:

Either every single buff effect in the game needs to have its animations and visuals effecting our characters able to be opted out of or none should.

That's sort of what my suggestion is about. If this means going as far as rejecting ALL effects including all auras (and if we want to be totally radical about it, reject even the buffs themselves), I'm game. It'd be an option after all.

 

On 4/1/2020 at 2:12 PM, Bentley Berkeley said:

If anything Id have this animation become sop for all electric powers offensive and defensive alike. I prefer immersion and this kind of animation effect is just that imo.

I could agree with this if we have a way to disable it. Including the option for the caster not wanting to cause it on allies.

 

I get it that you like being electrocuted by friends and that there are other people who also like it. I don't want to take that fun aspect of the game away from you or anyone else, but please understand that this very change is taking the fun away from me and other people, even if for different reasons than mine.

 

If you don't like my motivations anyway you can consider looking at @ROBOKiTTY's post:

 

On 4/1/2020 at 8:52 PM, ROBOKiTTY said:

I'm in support of a general option to disable having your animation set by external buffs. It's a common enough phenomenon where people would drive-by buff a group of people. Most of the time, this is harmless and done without any ill intent. However, buff animations disrupt emotes and often force your character into a combat stance, which is disruptive for social gatherings or people roleplaying. While visible effects can be unwanted in some scenarios, forced animations are a lot more intrusive.

 

On the anniversary of the game's shutdown, people were holding torches in Atlas Park. GMs had to ask people to turn off stealth auras and refrain from disruptive buffs. A lot of people like buffing people to be friendly, and as mentioned, the vast majority of the time, this is not a bad thing and is often an appreciated gesture. It's a part of the game's culture, So making it an opt-out option seems to be the best solution, as opposed to losing one's temper and yelling at the Nth person to freshly arrive in the zone and buff people without realizing what's going on.

 

It'd be even better if this option could go into the game's actual option menu and as a slash command, so it could be toggled a lot more easily.

 

It solves the same problem with a different motivation.

[ArchVileTerror]

Not to hijack the whole thread, but a Dev also mentioned that the fade-away option for the Baby New Year auto-stalker "pet" would not work for existing pets.  Basically, none of them would ever "die" (which is certainly something I imagine some players want), and would instead just fade away when defeated in combat too.  Making that optional on a per account basis is tech which is still . . . well, honestly, I think it might be a dead end, unless someone has some epiphany on a means to develop it.  It's certainly a piece of tech which would resolve a LOT of issues.

 

Including the one expressed in this very thread, in fact.  So, maybe not that much of a hijack after all.

[ZeeHero]

People usually do have seizures when electrocuted.

[Silverado]

10 minutes ago, ZeeHero said:

People usually do have seizures when electrocuted.

And people usually scream in horror when being set on fire, but you don't see that with Thermal Radiation's buffs.

[MTeague]

Still.  Okay.  I can see that I might prefer an animation which didn't look like I'm jolting my allies with electricity to leave them writhing in pain. 

I mean, *most* of the time, I like my allies.  Mostly. 😉

 

However.

• Electrical Blast powers still do this to enemies.  And to YOU, when used against you by a Lead Shocker, or other foe.  Does this cause concern?
• Fire Blast lights your enemies ON FIRE.  And light YOU on fire when Circle Demons attack.  Does this cause concern?
• Broad Sword, Katana, Ninja Blade, Battle Axe, and the like show the target (friend or foe) assaulted with giant weapons in animations that should be fatal.  Does this cause concern?
• Earth Control leaves people encased in stone unable to twitch in any manner. Does this cause any concern? 
• Mind Control violates the targets very thoughts, causing them to betray and harm their allies unwillingly.  Does this cause concern?

I just think.... especially given that the jolting animation of the target of an electrical blast has been in the game since day 1 of Live, it's not that big of a deal. 

Perhaps I am wrong.

Perhaps I simply cannot make the mental leap why the same animantion is fine if it comes at you via a Stunner Chief, or a Malta Operative tazing you, but the very same jolting animation is not fine if it comes at you from an ally buffing you. 

But I can't.

Edited April 7, 2020 by MTeague

[Keen]

9 minutes ago, MTeague said:

• Electrical Blast powers still do this to enemies.  And to YOU, when used against you by a Lead Shocker, or other foe.  Does this cause concern?
• Fire Blast lights your enemies ON FIRE.  And light YOU on fire when Circle Demons attack.  Does this cause concern?
• Broad Sword, Katana, Ninja Blade, Battle Axe, and the like show the target (friend or foe) assaulted with giant weapons in animations that should be fatal.  Does this cause concern?
• Earth Control leaves people encased in stone unable to twitch in any manner. Does this cause any concern? 
• Mind Control violates the targets very thoughts, causing them to betray and harm their allies unwillingly.  Does this cause concern?

 

Those are all fine for a single reason: I can stop them from causing that effect on me.

 

If I'm on a melee character, I won't suffer any of the above due to having mez protection.

 

If I'm on a ranged or control character, I'll control or kill the enemy before they do anything to me. Or I can pop breakfrees to avoid the effects. Or I can use Clarion. The list goes on.

 

When I'm in a hostile environment, it's expected that I'm going to get hurt, but I do have the capacity to fight back and avoid all effects.

 

When it comes from an ally... there's absolutely nothing I can do.

 

[kiramon]

I think the heal/O2 boost/inspiration use animation makes more sense - like its “waking you up” more than shocking you. 

[Naraka]

1 hour ago, Keen said:

When it comes from an ally... there's absolutely nothing I can do.

 

Yes there is, and it's a lot easier than all those other ways. It's called *Movement*.  Just move = no seizure.

[Keen]

7 hours ago, Naraka said:

Yes there is, and it's a lot easier than all those other ways. It's called *Movement*.  Just move = no seizure.

You know "standing around" is a thing when you're not fighting, right?

 

You know moving 100% of the time when not fighting is totally unrealistic, right?

 

Yeah because of course I'm just going to be running around when not fighting to avoid a drive-by buff that I have NO IDEA when it's gonna happen.

 

🤦‍♂️

 

[MTeague]

8 hours ago, Naraka said:

Yes there is, and it's a lot easier than all those other ways. It's called *Movement*.  Just move = no seizure.

I'm still having some trouble grokking that this is a big deal, but i mean.... come on... even I know it's impractical to be 100% in motion 100% of the time you're logged in.

[MTeague]

9 hours ago, kiramon said:

I think the heal/O2 boost/inspiration use animation makes more sense - like its “waking you up” more than shocking you. 

I would not be opposed to this. 

 

I guess I was more reacting to the original post on a level of "how many OTHER animations that have been in the game since 2004 will be questioned?".

And I can't lie, I'm still somewhat reacting to it on that level, still kneejerk wanting to look at it as a user issue vs a developer issue.

 

But power customization options are always to the good.  So letting people choose alternate animations, sure.  

 

And I know I've seen requested many times the ability to have graphics of OTHER players powers be suppressed as an option.  Not limiting what anyone else sees, just limiting what your PC chooses to render vs not on your screen.  I'd prefer that kind of approach to this, to be honest.  It would still meet the same goal of the OP not having to see it.

[Naraka]

Well crap, I didn't know people were that dense.

 

You don't have to move 100% of the time, just when you get the buffs.

 

I would certainly qualify that as *something* when responding to a post saying there is *nothing* you can do. Jeeze lol

[Keen]

11 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Well crap, I didn't know people were that dense.

 

You don't have to move 100% of the time, just when you get the buffs.

 

I would certainly qualify that as *something* when responding to a post saying there is *nothing* you can do. Jeeze lol

 

Read again:

 

10 hours ago, Keen said:

 

... I can stop them from causing that effect on me.

 

... I'll control or kill the enemy before they do anything to me.

 

... I do have the capacity to fight back and avoid all effects.

 

 

If I have to move after getting a seizure, I'm not avoiding it. The damage's already been done.

 

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[justicebeliever]

I'm not opposed to a change.  I'm not a fan myself of this animation on an ally.  I've been away from COH for several months and I just noticed this yesterday in Atlas, and was mildly horrified by the experience.  +1 for the change

[Yomo Kimyata]

I am all for a Null option to disable all visual effects from buffs. 

 

Drive-by buffs drive me nuts!

[Naraka]

2 hours ago, Keen said:

 

Read again:

 

 

If I have to move after getting a seizure, I'm not avoiding it. The damage's already been done.

 

Thanks for proving my point.

 

Firstly your base premise was faulty to begin with, pointing out that you can just have mez protection to stop foes from mezzing you still doesn't stop you from getting the effect if you are shot with an electric power OR if you're currently not under the effects of mez protection.

 

Secondly, you can't take back your previous words.  You said there's *nothing* you could do.  I gave you something and you're trying to move the goalpost so hard, you apparently don't remember what you said to begin with or feel it's somehow more difficult to just move (have you ever did CoX PvP?...or any PvP in general?  Oh and mez protection in PvP is limited to mez resist for the most part so you're more likely to get mezzed period) than it is to have 100% mez protection all the time on every character.  Go play a Scrapper from level 1 facing Outcast and see if you ever get mezzed by electric powers.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Naraka

[Solarverse]

I just have one more thing to add. Do people have seizures while standing up? I have personally only ever seen people collapse to the floor during a seizure. It never really struck me as being a seizure animation. 

[ArchVileTerror]

People definitely do, Solarverse.  There are many different types of seizures, in fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epileptic_seizure

[MunkiLord]

I like the suggestion from the OP, +1

[Bastille Boy]

On 3/31/2020 at 7:22 PM, Keen said:

Please consider options to avoid allies getting the "writhing in pain" animation when affected by Electrical Affinity buffs. Suggestion:

• Create a Null the Gull setting to "prevent ally buffs from changing your animation"
  • Could apply to everything (like Kinetics powers)
  • (Additionally) Another Null the Gull setting to "prevent your buffs to change animations on allies" for when the caster does not want to cause that effect on others

 

14 hours ago, Silverado said:

And people usually scream in horror when being set on fire, but you don't see that with Thermal Radiation's buffs.

I have seen newer players freak out about getting buffed with Thermal Radiation. And lots of people who don't find the Thermal animations upsetting do find it annoying. It obscures the character's costume in a big way. People work hard on their costumes and want them to be seen. I play thermals and apply the buffs anyway, because they're some of the best buffs in the game, but I wish I could get rid of the visual effects.

 

I like both of the OP's suggestions. I think it should apply to all buff powersets, including Thermal Radiation. I'd like to give both the recipient and the caster the option of turning off the visual effects.

[Moka]

As someone with chronic seizures, I don't really look at it this way. I think it is fine as is.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Moka

[Troo]

Power set naming and medical conditions aside, it is an annoying set.

 

Did I just get attacked?! No, that's just a teammate 'helping'..

 

Does it share the same sound effects as attacks?

 

Ultimately this will likely take the heat off knockback for a bit.

[Naraka]

3 hours ago, ejworthing said:

I like both of the OP's suggestions. I think it should apply to all buff powersets, including Thermal Radiation. I'd like to give both the recipient and the caster the option of turning off the visual effects.

The OP's suggestion is about the animation, i.e. how the target of the power animates.  The suggestion doesn't cover at all the visual FX that a power has.

 

To specifically explain, he's wanting to exchange or have an option that the "shock robot-dance" animation that the player character performs be replaced with the kinetics "power shrug" animation but the actual visual electricity covering the character's costume would remain the same.