What's the rule on full fledged rip offs of other IPs? Im seeing a lot of it

[justicebeliever]

"A huge tree grows from a tiny sprout;

A nine-story high terrace is built from heaps of earth.

A journey of thousand miles begins from the first step."

- Lao Tzu, chapter 64 of the Tao Te Ching

 

<Realizes troll is trying to immobilize him....*pop's a break-free and a logic inspiration* - moving on>

[MunkiLord]

also note that Marvel/Disney and DC/WB have their own Super Hero online universes, and could see a free to play CoH-reborn as a threat to their own profits.

 

If I make a free lemonade stand on the sidewalk in front of my house, is Minute Maid going to sue me for threatening their profits?

 

I'm of the opinion that Marvel and DC likely don't give a shit about this, and NC Soft is gonna do whatever they feel like, so I'm not gonna stress. But I would like to point out that your example here is incredibly terrible and does not in any way apply to this situation. You can't copyright recipes, so there would be no copyright claim possible and assuming the the stand didn't claim in some way to be associated with Minute Maid, there would be no trademark possible either.

[Zolgar]

Let's look at this from another angle.

 

Let's say Disney decides they have a problem with it. There is, as I mentioned previously, no clear way to measure the damages. There is, as we have pretty much all agreed at this point, no actual legal grounds for a genuine lawsuit against the server. No one is making money off, or claiming ownership of, Disney's IP when they are making their copycat characters.

 

Could Disney drum up some bogus thing to throw a lawsuit at the server? Yes, they could. However, it would cost them money, and negative publicity, and it would gain them literally nothing (unless one of our admins is secretly Elon Musk or someone).

 

So realistically, if we invoke the wrath of the bear (which I think we all agree is a pretty slim chance), what will happen is Disney will issue a C&D saying "Oi, stop letting your people use our IPs." and the Homecoming team will go "Oh crap, we woke the mouse. Hey guys, stop it with the copycat characters." and proceed to zealously generic characters like happened on live.

[The Fifth Horseman]

Do note I did not say, "sue".  I said, "legal actions", such as a Cease & Desist (which were the orders Blizzard put to them, though, I think that is a lawsuit, but I'm not a lawyer).

Lawsuits are expensive - even to initiate - so that is why most companies will start with a C&D as their first (and sometimes only) salvo.

[Solvernia]

<Realizes troll is trying to immobilize him....*pop's a break-free and a logic inspiration* - moving on>

 

"An angry man opens his mouth and shuts his eyes." - Cato the Elder

[Charistoph]

Do note I did not say, "sue".  I said, "legal actions", such as a Cease & Desist (which were the orders Blizzard put to them, though, I think that is a lawsuit, but I'm not a lawyer).

Lawsuits are expensive - even to initiate - so that is why most companies will start with a C&D as their first (and sometimes only) salvo.

 

The point is that fighting even a C&D costs money to counter, short of capitulation (unless you have a good cheap lawyer already on the team), and while WB may not be able the buy the Vatican out from under the Pope, the Mouse could, and both have teams of lawyers already on payroll specifically to address C&D and IP violations.

 

Zolgar MAY have a point about the Mouse just requesting better policing on IP violations, and we can all hope that is as far as it goes.  It goes better with that because it can easily be settled out of court.  However, big corporations rarely ever settle for hand slaps if they see something becoming too big in a volume, especially if they can take all the money you do have away from and remove you as any potential threat.

[jubakumbi]

The point is that fighting even a C&D costs money to counter, short of capitulation (unless you have a good cheap lawyer already on the team), and while WB may not be able the buy the Vatican out from under the Pope, the Mouse could, and both have teams of lawyers already on payroll specifically to address C&D and IP violations.

 

Zolgar MAY have a point about the Mouse just requesting better policing on IP violations, and we can all hope that is as far as it goes.  It goes better with that because it can easily be settled out of court.  However, big corporations rarely ever settle for hand slaps if they see something becoming too big in a volume, especially if they can take all the money you do have away from and remove you as any potential threat.

 

Again with the Big Corporation fears.

 

As has been laid out, C&D is the first step, that's how they work, I happen to work for a Big Corporation, that's what we just did not long ago.

If and only if an entity _chooses_ to fight that will there be costs.

 

This idea that Disney will uses it's evil lawyers to shut down these servers over Hulks is just silly.

As has been shown in this thread there are other places already where they could and do not.

 

Down with the FUD, play the game.

[Dr. Gemini]

Can we move on to some new ideas? I think this thread graduated to beating a dead horse about 5 pages ago. Every post is just repeating what that person, or someone else, has already said. Come on guys! Entertain me!

[Rokkeb]

Is Disney going to court saying that they had to illegally pirate a game to prove that people are making fan art of their characters?

[Charistoph]

The point is that fighting even a C&D costs money to counter, short of capitulation (unless you have a good cheap lawyer already on the team), and while WB may not be able the buy the Vatican out from under the Pope, the Mouse could, and both have teams of lawyers already on payroll specifically to address C&D and IP violations.

 

Zolgar MAY have a point about the Mouse just requesting better policing on IP violations, and we can all hope that is as far as it goes.  It goes better with that because it can easily be settled out of court.  However, big corporations rarely ever settle for hand slaps if they see something becoming too big in a volume, especially if they can take all the money you do have away from and remove you as any potential threat.

 

Again with the Big Corporation fears.

 

As has been laid out, C&D is the first step, that's how they work, I happen to work for a Big Corporation, that's what we just did not long ago.

If and only if an entity _chooses_ to fight that will there be costs.

 

This idea that Disney will uses it's evil lawyers to shut down these servers over Hulks is just silly.

As has been shown in this thread there are other places already where they could and do not.

 

Down with the FUD, play the game.

 

There are two reasons this server group will be shut down: Internal politics which cause the group to go their separate ways, OR Legal actions put forward by a Big Corporation (BC).

 

This thread is about costume design.  This is not something that usually leads to internal politics breaking up a group, but it is something that can lead to legal actions being put forward by a Big Corporation.  C&D can also cause a shut down as much as a lawsuit, depending on what the BC will negotiate to avoid a lawsuit.

 

Therefore, it is not FUD to point out and discuss how such interactions may develop and occur.  So, quit trying to bully people in shutting up about it.

[Zolgar]

 

Therefore, it is not FUD to point out and discuss how such interactions may develop and occur.  So, quit trying to bully people in shutting up about it.

 

I mean, it's only fair. A lot of people have used "ooh, look big bad corporations are going to shut us down!" to try and bully people into ceasing making copycats :p

[jubakumbi]

Therefore, it is not FUD to point out and discuss how such interactions may develop and occur.  So, quit trying to bully people in shutting up about it.

 

So, me reapeating, constanlty I'll grant you, my opinion that the chances are small and worrying is silly, is bullying, where others are trying to get players to turn on each other, and I am the bully?

 

I am not saying to not discuss this.

I have stated that even the discussion frightens some people, but some are firghtened easily.

Show me where I said not to discuss, because if I did, it's my bad.

 

What I have said over and over is that _worrying_ about it, telling others to be _fearful_ enough of it to cause players angst, etc., is silly.

 

Discussion is healthy.

 

Constantly trying to convince other players to fill themsleves with fear and anxiety over the possibility of something that is so unlikely and completely out of player control sounds a lot more like bully behaviour, IMO, not to mention telling the playerbase to turn on each other over this misinformation and attack thier creativity.

 

You call me a bully.

From my PoV, I am standing up to the bullies that are spreading fear and anxiety for no good reason.

 

We disagree.

How tragic.

 

I mean, it's only fair. A lot of people have used "ooh, look big bad corporations are going to shut us down!" to try and bully people into ceasing making copycats :p

[Sothoth]

I guess everyone forgot about the lawsuit Marvel brought against NCSoft during the first year of CoH's existence that they lost.

 

It was already decided YEARS ago by the courts. You can make whatever rip off characters you want.

[Seigmoraig]

I have Rockit Raccoon and Gwoot (notice the altered spellings) because I didn't want to use the exact names, partially for legal reasons, but also because I didn't want to be "that guy".

Am I guilty too?

 

Also partially because those names were already takes, amirite ?

[justicebeliever]

I guess everyone forgot about the lawsuit Marvel brought against NCSoft during the first year of CoH's existence that they lost.

 

It was already decided YEARS ago by the courts. You can make whatever rip off characters you want.

 

Not sure if you are being at all serious...

 

Everyone who is concerned about "rip-off characters" is thinking about the Marvel lawsuit

• Never decided by the courts - it was settled, and the terms of the settlement are unknown
  
• As a result of the lawsuit, NCSoft doubled down on its policing of characters using existing names/costumes from other companies
  
• And it no doubt cost NCSoft a ton of money to fight off the lawsuit, money that Homecoming doesn't have.  And that was all pre-Mouse, Disney is much more litigious and has even deeper pockets

 

Is it likely that Marvel/Disney or DC/WB are going to sue?  I really don't think so

 

Re:

bullying people

I haven't really seen any instances of anyone being truly bullied by this, either in-game or one this thread.  Some strong opinions being expressed, but no bullying.  Let's all not try to take this personally - it is just a game that we aren't even paying for

 

Final Thought -

I'm also all for discussion, and think that yes - there is a case to be made that ripping off other characters is a bad practice, but it's really pointless for us to debate it here, since a.) Homecoming hasn't set a policy, and b.) most people don't read the forums, so they are unaware it's even a concern, and c.) If the Mouse or WB are going to sue, there are already a ton of characters in the system for them to use as examples - it's not like anything this thread will do will change the behavior, except to stress some people out...

 

 

[subbacultchas]

I guess everyone forgot about the lawsuit Marvel brought against NCSoft during the first year of CoH's existence that they lost.

 

It was already decided YEARS ago by the courts. You can make whatever rip off characters you want.

It's been brought up several times, almost every page of this discussion.

[Charistoph]

Therefore, it is not FUD to point out and discuss how such interactions may develop and occur.  So, quit trying to bully people in shutting up about it.

 

I mean, it's only fair. A lot of people have used "ooh, look big bad corporations are going to shut us down!" to try and bully people into ceasing making copycats :p

 

Telling people to not poke the bear is the same as telling people to shut up about poking the bear?  Got it.

 

Therefore, it is not FUD to point out and discuss how such interactions may develop and occur.  So, quit trying to bully people in shutting up about it.

So, me reapeating, constanlty I'll grant you, my opinion that the chances are small and worrying is silly, is bullying, where others are trying to get players to turn on each other, and I am the bully?

 

Nope.  Continuously calling it FUD, and telling people to stop spreading the FUD, when no one has mentioned FUD, would be bullying.  Continuously calling people names to dismiss their opinions and suggestions, is bullying.  Continuously emotionally projecting on to other people's statements, and then lambasting them for those emotional projections, is bullying.  Discussion is good, but let's keep it civil.

 

I am not saying to not discuss this.

I have stated that even the discussion frightens some people, but some are firghtened easily.

Show me where I said not to discuss, because if I did, it's my bad.

 

What I have said over and over is that _worrying_ about it, telling others to be _fearful_ enough of it to cause players angst, etc., is silly.

 

Discussion is healthy.

 

Constantly trying to convince other players to fill themsleves with fear and anxiety over the possibility of something that is so unlikely and completely out of player control sounds a lot more like bully behaviour, IMO, not to mention telling the playerbase to turn on each other over this misinformation and attack thier creativity.

 

You call me a bully.

From my PoV, I am standing up to the bullies that are spreading fear and anxiety for no good reason.

 

We disagree.

How tragic.

 

And how many of us have actually deliberately tried to actually spread fear and anxiety in this thread?  You are the one projecting that in to other people's statements.  No one has said that the sky is going to fall if everyone makes a Marvel character.  All I've seen is people saying we shouldn't poke the bear, and we should be self-policing at most.  Since when is stating caution spreading fear and anxiety?  At the very most, I've been an advocate for self-policing in that the Homecoming Team takes the initiative only as far as the original team did before Sunset, as that would easily provide a counter-case against anything the Team would have to fear in this regard.

 

The actual Homecoming Team are the only ones to have anything to fear, not us.  The players are not going to have the FBI banging in our door, or $200,000 suits handing court summons to us.  The only thing to "fear" is that we lose access to what we've accomplished on these servers.  It's happened before to me, so I would only find it disappointing, nothing to be fearful or anxious about.  And if the Team being handed a summons is enough to cause YOU fear, then maybe you shouldn't be trying to spread FUD about people talking with concern about it as if was something to fear.

 

And as an FYI, I never reported someone who made an IP violation, even before the Sunset.  I never did it because it was no skin off my nose, and, more than likely, they were already reported before I did by someone who did feel their nose was put out of tweak.  I saw a lot of Hulk and Goku Analogues all the time.  When Shield Defense came out, I don't have to tell you how many Steve Rogers homages came out, I even tried out a similar concept on Test, but only remotely near costume design.

[jubakumbi]

And how many of us have actually deliberately tried to actually spread fear and anxiety in this thread?  You are the one projecting that in to other people's statements.  No one has said that the sky is going to fall if everyone makes a Marvel character.  All I've seen is people saying we shouldn't poke the bear, and we should be self-policing at most.  Since when is stating caution spreading fear and anxiety?  At the very most, I've been an advocate for self-policing in that the Homecoming Team takes the initiative only as far as the original team did before Sunset, as that would easily provide a counter-case against anything the Team would have to fear in this regard.

 

The actual Homecoming Team are the only ones to have anything to fear, not us.  The players are not going to have the FBI banging in our door, or $200,000 suits handing court summons to us.  The only thing to "fear" is that we lose access to what we've accomplished on these servers.  It's happened before to me, so I would only find it disappointing, nothing to be fearful or anxious about.  And if the Team being handed a summons is enough to cause YOU fear, then maybe you shouldn't be trying to spread FUD about people talking with concern about it as if was something to fear.

 

And as an FYI, I never reported someone who made an IP violation, even before the Sunset.  I never did it because it was no skin off my nose, and, more than likely, they were already reported before I did by someone who did feel their nose was put out of tweak.  I saw a lot of Hulk and Goku Analogues all the time.  When Shield Defense came out, I don't have to tell you how many Steve Rogers homages came out, I even tried out a similar concept on Test, but only remotely near costume design.

 

From my PoV, telling players to stiffle other players by 'reporting them' is sowing FUD.

Nothing other than a general sense of FUD about Big Corporations doing Evil Things and possibly taking away The Precious drives the idea, IMO.

 

The whole point is that players have nothing to fear other than 'losing' these servers, we agree there.

Trying to get others to 'keep a low profile' by reporting other players...FUD.

 

Blatant attacks on the creativity and personal character of people that enjoy making/playing thier 'favorites'...just mean, really.

 

These things are happening here on this forum as well as other places on the Internet.

'This thread' is, again, not some sacrosant court of law where only things mentioned here already can be addressed or referenced.

 

I prefer to drag ideas that I think are based in the human psyche of FUD out into the open and expose them.

As discussed, you just don't like the way I do it, and that's OK by me.

[Apogee]

Just agree to disagree already. Pointless arguments are pointless.

[Skyhawke]

I would just like to say that this thread finally made me look up what FUD actually was.  For the first few pages, I was laughing to myself imagining this:

[justicebeliever]

I would just like to say that this thread finally made me look up what FUD actually was.  For the first few pages, I was laughing to myself imagining this:

 

In fact the whole thread could be summarized as exactly this -

 

It's rabbit season

No, it's duck season

No, it's rabbit season

No, it's duck season

Rabbit Season

Duck Season

Duck Season - now shoot him! shoot him!

[Adeon Hawkwood]

I would just like to say that this thread finally made me look up what FUD actually was.  For the first few pages, I was laughing to myself imagining this:

FUD should not be confused with FOD. However FOD is a frequent source of FUD.

[justicebeliever]

I would just like to say that this thread finally made me look up what FUD actually was.  For the first few pages, I was laughing to myself imagining this:

FUD should not be confused with FOD. However FOD is a frequent source of FUD.

 

FOD = Fear of Ducks?

FOD = Farming of Dragonfruit?

FOD = Flying on Dinosaurs?

 

All good rockband names IMHO

[PSLAnimal]

I would just like to say that this thread finally made me look up what FUD actually was.  For the first few pages, I was laughing to myself imagining this:

FUD should not be confused with FOD. However FOD is a frequent source of FUD.

 

FOD = Fear of Ducks?

FOD = Farming of Dragonfruit?

FOD = Flying on Dinosaurs?

 

All good rockband names IMHO

 

Foreign Object Damage.

[Adeon Hawkwood]

I would just like to say that this thread finally made me look up what FUD actually was.  For the first few pages, I was laughing to myself imagining this:

FUD should not be confused with FOD. However FOD is a frequent source of FUD.

 

FOD = Fear of Ducks?

FOD = Farming of Dragonfruit?

FOD = Flying on Dinosaurs?

 

All good rockband names IMHO

 

Foreign Object Damage.

Which would also make a good band name.