Make Red Side Great Again

[leeowensoas]

I've always preferred CoV. Each zone has way less wasted space, no being forced to run all the way from founders falls to Perez park for a single mission, and virtually 0 hunt missions or forced teaming missions (speaking of: does anyone actually like hunt missions or click-two-glowies-simultaneously missions? Can't we just ditch those? I honestly doubt they would be missed.) Villains has always felt more streamlined and like you wade through less BS to get to the story arcs. That said, Mayhem Missions are one of the only villainous things where you feel like you have agency to enact your own evil plot. I think CoV would benefit from an expanded set of missions like these where you have some autonomy and are out for yourself. These would be similar to expanded mayhem missions, let's call them NEFARIOUS PLOTS or something like that. They could follow a somewhat simple setup.


Part 1: design your evil plot:

YOU as the villain choose from a list of motivations, e.g. Money, power, destabilizing an rival organization, etc.. while this aspect will change the way the following missions play out somewhat the key here is that YOU get to roleplay what kind of villain you want to be and what your motivation is. Different motivations lead to different rewards (e.g. financial theft gives more drops, ripping off tech could give some sort of temp power, intimidation gives more infamy, just some small scale short lived reward for completing your plot to reflect your choices). Here you can also define your methods. Do you want to be a smash and dasher? A subtle thief who nobody knows was there? A smooth talker who charms your way into power? Choices made at this stage will establish your "style" of villainy


Part 2: choose your victims

YOU as the villain get to choose the location you want to hit, or the group you want to hurt (e.g. longbow, wyvern) ideally from all the paragon city locations and organizations, this way you actually get to go to the "city of heroes" and make some noise. This is one of the best parts of mayhem missions and key to feeling villainous. Again, you are an autonomous villain, you should choose who you want to fight and why.


Part 3: find some flunkies

Every powerful villain needs some stooges. Here you get to pick your favorite group of baddies (hellions, freakshow, etc.) and you basically go on an instanced mission where you beat down their leader to gain their respect, or steal an item to blackmail them into doing your bidding, or kidnap the leader's significant other, some real top dog nastiness to show them who's a villain and who's a stooge. Maybe you want to play a smooth talking charismatic villain? There can be a way to do the mission as mostly dialogue. This could be as combat light or heavy as you choose, again based on roleplay character choices established in steps one and two.

Part 4: time to smash
This is where things go super-mayhem-mission style. You show up in paragon with an army of goons from whichever organization you recruited. Depending on your roleplay choices, these guys could be your foot soldiers in a grand battle, a mere distraction so you can sneak around, or more. But the mission starts with you assigning them objectives (e.g. start taking hostages, kill everyone you see, do some property damage, start looting). These objectives could make the mission play differently (fewer ambushes if the goons are distracting your enemies, random bonus inf from them stealing/looting, etc.). Basically the path you take to your destination will vary somewhat by the way you use your goons.

Part 5: your individual mission
Once you reach wherever your goal is (the bank, the base of operations, whatever) the mission will play out based on your motivations and style (some villains will have a stealth mission, some will be massacring everyone they see). This way they will play more dynamically than mayhem missions but incorporate all the best parts.

Part 6: the escape
Do you really your flunkies or do you leave them behind to take the heat? Do you leave them in a dramatic standoff against the police so the cops won't follow you, or bring them with you as backup to fight the hero(es) who inevitably show up? Again, you get to dictate their actions.

Part 7: the aftermath
Once you're back at your base with riches in hand, do you betray the group you recruited (more inf/bonuses for you but you have to fight a whole pissed off organization) or do you sacrifice some of your spoils and retain their goodwill (could give a temp power that allows you to summon some goons as pets, or maybe a confuse power to make them join you when you meet them on the streets). At this point all the choices you've made in the previous steps will be reflected in the rewards you get. Whichever hero group you agitated will get a taunt effect such that they will be more determined to go after you (not sure how this could work code-wise, maybe just random ambushes now and then would be easier, the point being you made it personal to them).

Obviously this is a very rough idea and many of the steps would have to be smoothed for balance, but I think the core idea is sound. You as a villain get autonomy over what kind of plots you concoct, your methods for achieving your goals, and who you want to make enemies with. Your choices will be reflected in your rewards. The key concepts here are that you get to make choices through dialogue that will affect the gameplay and mission design, the closest in an MMO you can get to having impact on the world.

[ArchVileTerror]

The click-two-glowies-simultaneously thing has, actually, been removed.  If you find a mission where it's actually still in place, log it and post it to the forums.
NOTE:  The mission objectives in the Nav Bar and descriptions haven't been updated, but the actual in-game mechanisms have.

 

Just thought I'd mention that before clearing my head enough to give your suggestion a full readthrough.

[Razor Cure]

As some people have said, Redside was always my fav too. I started there (when the games were still seperate) and much much prefer the content. But as others also say..it can be like pulling teeth finding a team, even for a Weekly SF.

I think some of the 'blueside superioty' comes down too...

 It came first. An obvious one, but a big one.

 Before side switching, the Blue ATs work MUCH better as a team. Sure, red teams can kick ass too..but you only have to look at pre-IO RSF, and teams basically requiring a stone tank buffed by 5+ corrs....compared to preIO STF..which needed..well, ANY tank buffed by a single emp.

 Blueside content, especially lower (maybe not counting the hollows and newer stuff) is just a walk in the park, compared to red that gets Longbow and Archnos, ALL the way to 50.

The utterly ridiculous prevalence of Farms blueside, especially in Unai 'pick any of my missions and farm it!' Kemen. Redisde, there was only TV farms vs Nemesis (much harder than council). The one midrange farm Redside ever had, the Cuda mission, got a big fat nerf. But those awesome devs didnt seem to care about an entire arc full of farm after farm.

 A point in the game (i forget the exact time, but it might have been between issues 12-16. Maybe) when Redisde suffered from utterly awful lag. Like..having to quit the game and relog in between paper missions lag. This went on for at least a good 3 months, and was never even acknowldged as an 'issue.' At that stage, I still only had CoV, but if I had both, sure as sure I would have been ditching redside for a long time.

Patron vs Epic powers. Epics? Oh here, heroes, have them free. Its all good! Patrons? Oh no, you HAVE to do this arc, with some super hard elite boss fights (seraphina, back before IOs? not fun. Mako and his energy fonts? Not fun.). Sure, not we can at least just get the badge mission and unlock that, but come on. I would LOVE to see blueside suddenly get a mission arc for patron access (and seriously, it would make sense, performing some super special task to get new powers)..and even more for the bitching that would result.

RSF vs STF. Even more so before IOs and side switching. Now, it is better, but rsf STILL requires a fuckhuge story arc to be completed, before being able to start it. Does it make sense? yes, it really does..you earn Recluse's respect, so he gives you an awesome mission! Blueside? Nah, screw that, they dont need to do anything to get trusted with saving the city.

[Apparition]

Honestly, the biggest changes i'd like to see done red side are three new Strike Forces: One between levels 8 to 15 like Positron, one levels 30 - 35 like Manticore, and one levels 40 - 45.  I think that alone would be a big help.

[Troo]

On 4/6/2020 at 11:55 AM, Apparition said:

I would like to suggest temporarily doubling the INF and reward merits from red side content (over a three or four month period, say), to give people strong incentive to check out red side and see for themselves how great it is, from the zones themselves, to the story arcs, to the different enemies.

 

A lot of people are new to the game and have only played blue side because "that's where everyone else is."  This would give them incentive to check out red side for themselves.

One of the subtle but big differences between red and blue is the mixing of high and new low level characters.

• Atlas is the hub blue side
• Is Cap is the hub red side?

[ArchVileTerror]

Cap au Diable was kinda hub'ish during Legacy, due to market, university, and Rikti War Zone.  I've not seen anything hub-up on Everlasting, though.

[Shadowsleuth]

I would like to see redside access to the Shadow Shard, I'm surprised that Arachnos hasn't established a Firebase of their own there yet.

 

The Circle of Thorns & Nemesis both have bases there.

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Mage-Killer_Zuhkara#Stop_the_ceremony

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/The_Dark_Watcher_(Primal_Earth)#Investigate_Nemesis_Base

 

 

Even more strange is fact that Black Scorpion tells you he has a portal conduit to the Shadow Shard set up for you in Nerva.

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Black_Scorpion#Investigate_Nemesis_Army_build-up_in_the_Shadow_Shard

 

 

Even Scirocco sends you there.

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Scirocco#Take_the_Malleus_Mundi_from_the_Circle_in_the_Shadow_Shard.

 

 

And Efficiency Expert Pither.

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Efficiency_Expert_Pither#Find_Olivia_Darque_.26_escape

 

 

And Technician Naylor has the coordinates for the Shadow Shard.

 

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Technician_Naylor#Bravo_for_the_Shadow_Shard_.2837-39.29

 

 

With that capability why hasn't Arachnos set up a base there yet?

Edited April 8, 2020 by Shadowsleuth

[EmmySky]

Here in my area, you can be ticketed/fined for 'loitering'.  This is a gathering of 3 or more people without purpose (usually restricted to late night/early morning hours in 'bad' neighborhoods used to curb villainous activity like drug deals and prostitution).

 

Would never be used in CoV because there simply arent enough people to clump up or form a hub on redside.

 

😝 *runs out of thread fastly* 😝

[Coyotedancer]

On 4/6/2020 at 7:53 PM, ArchVileTerror said:

Wailers

 - "Breaking News!  Jimmy Sonata's unexpected tour of Paragon City was cut short when a horde of strange demonic creatures attacked the neighbourhood."

 

Tavaris sighs and says "We're going to need more boxes..."

 

Life gets crazy when you're in the mail-order wailer business. XD

[Mirage]

My suggestion, if it has not already been said: Improve, and update alot of the mission content for Redside.

 

80% of the missions in the Rogue Isles are what? fight arachnos, fight the circle, fight the freakshow, fight the goldbrickers, fight the skyraiders, etc. Should villains not be fighting heroes, longbow, "the good guys".

 

I know bad guys do fight other bad guys, but I think the majority of being a villain should be fighting the good guys. I would like to see more longbow, vanguard, epic hero, misc vigilante, etc in the stories. To me, it gets boring and tired to fight the bad guys (most) of the time. Why am I playing a villain? why not just play a hero then?

 

Another nitpick I have is playing an arachnos soldier. I have a widow and a soldier character, and it bugs me when I play a generic mission from a contact that has me going in and attacking an arachnos base. I know I'm a "Destined one" but still, I'd think this would get you court martialled in a hurry. I think that arachnos characters should have their own story arcs, which is more in line of being a soldier for the organization. Secret missions against longbow, into paragon city, doing hits on hero bases and infrastructure, assassinate key figures (like mayors and politicians). 

I am an avid roleplayer and GM. I propose if the community wants to pitch in and work on this as a project, I would be willing to volunteer my time to make the stories and mission write up content, I'm not good at anything else on the development side. We can come together and create alot of nice new story arcs for arachnos, then maybe expand it and make brand new content for the rest of redside.

 

I think that would rejuvinate things a bit for Redside.

 

Thoughts?

[Herotu]

On 4/6/2020 at 8:00 PM, Rathulfr said:

Even in its hey day, red side never appealed to most players.  It has always been significantly underpopulated, even in the best of times, right after CoV launched.  We all created our villains back then to check out the new content, and a few of us even got a few to 50.  Then later we all we went back to playing heroes, as usual.

 

There's nothing cool about breaking someone's arm or beating up good people or being mean to the vulnerable.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Herotu

[SeraphimKensai]

One easy fix suggestion to help player population on Red Side, better Day/Night cycles.

[MTeague]

25 minutes ago, Herotu said:

There's nothing cool about breaking someone's arm or beating up good people or being mean to the vulnerable.

Perhaps.  But lots of people LOVE the bad guys.

 

Vader. Palpatine. Magneto. Doctor Doom. Venom. The Joker. Thanos. Loki. Galactus. Hell, even Freddy Krueger or Jason, or mob boss from your favorite Gangster flick.

The appeal to be The Big Bad, without REALLY hurting anyone for real, exists. 

Maybe it's not there for everyone. But it's there.

 

And most importantly, this IS without hurting anyone for real.  Pixels on a screen don't count, or don't get me started about the Battle Axe / Fire tanks "Arresting" people blueside.

[Arcanum]

4 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

One easy fix suggestion to help player population on Red Side, better Day/Night cycles.

It can be quite - dismal - over there, I agree. 

I personally really enjoy doing the "Red Side" content and would love to see a little life put back into it! ^_^

[Shadowsleuth]

After seeing the Rico crime app on Westworld Season 3 I wished the villain newspaper worked more like that.

 

You can use a filter to pick the type of crime you're interested in (Theft, delivering contraband, roughing someone up, collecting bribes/payoffs, kidnappings, assassinations, etc..) & it then provides you with a long list of available crimes along with listing the payout you'll recieve for doing them (& the rep you'll get as well) or you can choose to see what's available nearby right now.

 

The app lets you know if its a solo job or if you need a team & puts together the team for you.

 

The app also lets you know if the task is limited time available (time crunch to complete) or more open ended (you can take your time to plan it out).

 

As you successfully complete tasks your rep goes up which opens up bigger & better jobs but also brings more heat (You move up the most wanted list).

In CoH terms more ambushes by law enforcement.

[ArchVileTerror]

@Mirage, your idea is not a bad one, but it's also got HUGE overhead.

Maybe once/if the Homecoming Team open the doors to more volunteers, we could whip up a community effort to rewriting Redside . . . but as it stands, a few folks have offered rewrites, and received no official go-ahead (as far as I'm aware, anyway.   Don't like all the secrecy, but maybe someone's been taken up on the offer without any announcement).

But, as it stands, the Redside Rewrite is too daunting of a task to be viable in the short term.

 

@Shadowsleuth, though . . . your idea is very intriguing!  I'd like to learn more.  Have you got a flowchart you could share, perhaps?  

[Mirage]

I know it would be big, but baby steps. I didn't say to re-do everything all in one day (Rome and all that), but if the powers that be, wish to put a team together to do one project, one new story arc, or something. I would be interested in joining that team for the betterment of the community, and Villains on Redside.

 

Anyone listening, put my name on the list. 🙂

[ArchVileTerror]

You know what?

Let's try the community run version again, Mirage.

Give me an hour or so to try and put my words in order.  I'mma start a new thread!

 

(Also, speaking of community projects . . . I should probably go prod some people in:  https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/17732-community-project-cleaning-up-the-suggestions-and-feedback-board/ )

[ArchVileTerror]

Ok!  Here we go.

@Mirage, but also @Apparition, @Rathulfr, @Muppy, @Shadowsleuth, @Razor Cure, @Coyotedancer, and all the other self-proclaimed villains who I may have forgetten or missed . . . 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/18029-community-project-adding-villainous-depth-to-redside-missions-and-story-arcs/

Let's take a stab at it, eh?  We can call ourselves:  Strike Force Agency!

 

 . . . it's workshoppable.

[Coyotedancer]

I'm a Rogue player. I was a rogues-in-concept player years before rogue-as-an-alignment existed. XD

 

Aside from that, as a writer... I'm a damned good editor.

(Which is to say, I have absolutely no talent as a writer at all.)

 

I am not the villain you're looking for. 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Coyotedancer

[ArchVileTerror]

Aww . . . dang.  Well, I figure we can still use a Rogue editor, no?  Get you in there for the final passes before submission?

[Yaliw]

If I may make a suggestion, Why not just remove the limitations on alignments? Let me, the player, decide why my Hero character is in St. Martial doing bad things. Maybe I got brain washed, maybe I'm doing a 'greater good' thing or something. Right now, most of us are on hero side because that's where everyone is. I'd love to do more villain content but I'm forced to stay hero or vigilante to start up hero missions. Oh well, can't start up villain content easily so I just won't. That's most of our mindsets I think

To further improve 'villain side' population, we also need more ways to access the zones. Maybe some of the boats in Paragon's ports can be access points. Ouroboros allows travel between both the blue and red zones. Maybe some secret 'rogue subways' will take you to some red zones etc.

 

Finally, this would open up the avenue for villain contacts in blue zones and hero contacts in red zones, allowing the writers of new content to provide some more interesting takes on alignment, villain or hero groups etc.

[siolfir]

1 hour ago, Yaliw said:

Maybe some secret 'rogue subways' will take you to some red zones etc.

You know those already exist, right?

[Yaliw]

On 4/17/2020 at 3:02 PM, siolfir said:

You know those already exist, right?

You know we could make more, right?

No need to be snippy, friend.

[siolfir]

4 minutes ago, Yaliw said:

You know we could make more, right?

No need to be snippy, friend.

I wasn't being snippy. Some people honestly have no idea that those exist - in part because it's much easier to use Ouroboros - and the way it was presented was as if you were one of them. Adding the word "more" between "some" and "secret" in what I originally quoted would have pre-empted the question.