Would it be possible to remove/reverse ED?

[Atlas_Carter]

This has always been a sticking point for me, ever since back in the day.  ED was a terrible decision, so now that we have control, can it be reversed?  Should it be?  Maybe only on one server?

 

I'm just wondering if I'm alone on this one or not, it's always felt like a real shitty change that CoH implemented because Emmert didn't like the way we played our characters.

[_NOPE_]

Would it be possible? Of course, yes.

 

Should we? I don't think so. ED ended up being good for the game, especially with the introduction of Inventions and the Incarnate content that let you go crazier with the powers if you "earn" it.

[Super Homer]

I say nay.

At some point, ED didn't make much sense, because six slotting for damage meant you sacrificed things like recharge and accuracy. These days, sets can give ridiculous recharge, accuracy and end cost discount that are all only kept in check by ED. Some of these things would yield like +200% damage on top of accuracy and recharge, and that's before even thinking about set bonuses.

[Atlas_Carter]

Ah, ok, I haven't been able to afford/play with any kind of origins other than singles so far, so I didn't have enough information to make my request intelligently, good to know that the damage Emmert inflicted on his game has been mitigated :)

[leese]

Honestly, it's more that ED needed to happen in order for more interesting options, like IOs and Incarnates, to be feasible.

 

The devs' mistake wasn't adding ED, it was not having something like it to start with.

[Rylas]

I think the only people that seem to be this bent out of shape over ED are those who just can't let go of how things were before ED was implemented. And after the introduction of IOs and Incarnate content, I have to wonder if some of these people must have just quit the game after ED. As mentioned, the mistake was not having ED from the beginning.

 

I like to compare it to Thanos' logic. By being upset about what you lost, you can't see what you gained.

 

#thanosdidnothingwrong

[Chuckers]

I was one of those people who complained about ED when it first hit the servers. I don't think they explained the reasoning well back then.

If I recall correctly, I thought it was done because Jack Emmert didn't like how we were playing his game. (He made a few nerfs because of that, so that's why I associate it with him... I could be wrong and even if I am wrong, I'll still blame him for it.)

However, after playing with ED for a while, I liked it. It made me think about how to slot my character and how I wanted to play him/her.

[Oklahoman]

My thing with ED was that nothing happened when you were slotting to warn you away from it. It's reasonable for a casual gamer like myself to assume that 6 damage SOs should give you 6x the benefit of 1 damage SO. If a message popped up when you attempted to slot your 4th, or maybe even 3rd, SO warning you of the diminishing returns, great.

[_NOPE_]

My thing with ED was that nothing happened when you were slotting to warn you away from it. It's reasonable for a casual gamer like myself to assume that 6 damage SOs should give you 6x the benefit of 1 damage SO. If a message popped up when you attempted to slot your 4th, or maybe even 3rd, SO warning you of the diminishing returns, great.

When you're dragging an enhancement over to slot it, it tells you EXACTLY how much it will enhance a power by. So... why would you slot something that would only enhance damage by 1%, for example? Or, did you not notice those numbers before?

[Burnt Toast]

I have never had an issue with ED. I started a few weeks after launch and always diversified my slotting. It made no sense to me to put 6 heals in heal aura for example. So I could heal more...less often and it took way more endurance. Same with attacks - ooh look you hit that enemy for 250 too bad it costs you so much endurance and won't be back up for 9 more seconds... or .. Oh look you missed because you have no accuracy slotted lol.

 

As for bringing back pre-ED - I see no valid reason to do so - ED was introduced in October 2005 - Only 1.5 years after the game was live which means that it was live for 7 years of the 8.5 years the game was live. Who knows maybe some group will decide that it is a good idea - thankfully Homecoming is about the future of the game and not the past.

[Rylas]

thankfully Homecoming is about the future of the game and not the past.

 

Great sentiment.

 

+1 inf

[CircularMoon]

ED is lvl 1 through 50, Pre-ED is 50+incarnate abilities/IO sets.

 

Have at it

 

[_NOPE_]

Would it be possible to remove/reverse ED?

 

I do it with Cialis. Works like a charm.

[Healix]

[Oklahoman]

My thing with ED was that nothing happened when you were slotting to warn you away from it. It's reasonable for a casual gamer like myself to assume that 6 damage SOs should give you 6x the benefit of 1 damage SO. If a message popped up when you attempted to slot your 4th, or maybe even 3rd, SO warning you of the diminishing returns, great.

When you're dragging an enhancement over to slot it, it tells you EXACTLY how much it will enhance a power by. So... why would you slot something that would only enhance damage by 1%, for example? Or, did you not notice those numbers before?

 

I understand that, but I also wonder how many players actually look at that. To be honest, I didn't, and I met several in game before the shutdown who didn't either. Completely brand new news to them. Like I say, for a casual gamer I think the thought process is different and the math of the game isn't something they're looking closely at. Just never understood why a simple warning box saying the SO you are about to slot won't work at full capacity, are you sure, etc. was a problem. We've got plenty of warning boxes already in the game, what's one more.

[leese]

I understand that, but I also wonder how many players actually look at that. To be honest, I didn't, and I met several in game before the shutdown who didn't either. Completely brand new news to them. Like I say, for a casual gamer I think the thought process is different and the math of the game isn't something they're looking closely at. Just never understood why a simple warning box saying the SO you are about to slot won't work at full capacity, are you sure, etc. was a problem. We've got plenty of warning boxes already in the game, what's one more.

 

I completely support a warning the first time you try to slot a enhancement that will be affected by ED. ED is not obvious and it's never really explained by the game.

[JusticeBowler]

There really is only one thing that is truly an ED-fallout problem. Some powersets have specific powers (sometimes only one or two) that have recharge times that are BALANCED around the idea that someone might have three recharges AND Hasten up most of the time. They are balanced assuming someone will twink out their character with IOs.

 

My request is that the current dev-team review all the powersets looking for these one or two deliberately gimped powers and shorten their recharge time so that they are "close to" perma with a full set of three SO recharges in place. Things like Tar Patch, which is hardly a game breaking power, shouldn't need every dark controller/defender turned into a speed gunky on their entire powerset and invest hunderds of millions in specialty IOs to fix. Traps has a couple, there are certainly others. Hasten and IO twinking ought to be for people who are trying to develop speed over their ENTIRE set and the costs involved should of course, reflect the benefit they get from that.

 

This is the real problem and the only real problem with ED in the end (now that we have IOs, sets and Incarnate stuffs). That sometimes ONE power is balanced against a completely unnecessarily ridiculous character build, rather than what should be ordinarily achievable at around lvl 40 when base powersets are complete.

 

Don't make NON-twink character PAY to TWINK just for one or two powers.

[Tanker_Toy]

There are a lot of great points had by many in this thread. I agree with most: reversing ED is not a good idea. I'd say Leese nailed it - it did need to happen, but would have been far better if it had been from the beginning.

 

And believe me, I understand the outrage. I raised a lot of hell about it on the forums back in the day but tried to keep it constructive. I also agree with Chuckers - not handled well at all by the dev team at the time. I had less issue with the reasoning than I did with the silence surrounding it - it seemed like the developers weren't all that interested in chatting about it, just laid it out and didn't interact much past that.

 

That said, it did work out pretty well in my estimation - you had buffers/debuffers become welcome parts of teams after that. Teams just had to be that, teams. Sure, people did and still do farming for groups but it isn't as easy as it once was. Good support goes a long way and it makes it fun to play them.

 

It also makes the rise in power feel A LOT smoother. I dig it - we have actual endgame here. IO's are game changers.

 

THAT SAID - I think a bit of quality of life improvements could happen before IO slotting occurs, so there can be even greater versatility in builds.

 

JusticeBowler gave a really good example in regards to recharge. Here's another: powers that have become effectively just a pain in the ass that don't do a whole lot, but at the same time it's necessary to take them and slot them for "just in case" reasons or that you have to take in order to reach some sort of cap - little effect, major slotting, but necessary.

 

While I'm no developer or coder, I do understand this - this is actually a pretty big undertaking.

 

TLDR: ED was understandably hated by a large part of the population but it worked out. There are some QOL things that could be done to help out certain sets.

 

[EggKookoo]

I was one of those people who complained about ED when it first hit the servers. I don't think they explained the reasoning well back then.

 

You and me both. I even posted lyrics about it to the tune of American Pie ("The Day the Enhancements Died" -- I wish I had that around somewhere still).

 

I've since come to welcome our ED Overlords.

[Tanker_Toy]

I was one of those people who complained about ED when it first hit the servers. I don't think they explained the reasoning well back then.

 

You and me both. I even posted lyrics about it to the tune of American Pie ("The Day the Enhancements Died" -- I wish I had that around somewhere still).

 

I've since come to welcome our ED Overlords.

 

I remember that, haha.

[Obsidius]

[Burnt Toast]

tarpatch has a 90 second recharge and a duration of 45 seconds. With hasten and two recharge enhancements at level 50 - it is available every 35 seconds... 1 recharge it is up at 42 seconds...  so........ No need to twink anything with IOs.

 

There really is only one thing that is truly an ED-fallout problem. Some powersets have specific powers (sometimes only one or two) that have recharge times that are BALANCED around the idea that someone might have three recharges AND Hasten up most of the time. They are balanced assuming someone will twink out their character with IOs.

 

My request is that the current dev-team review all the powersets looking for these one or two deliberately gimped powers and shorten their recharge time so that they are "close to" perma with a full set of three SO recharges in place. Things like Tar Patch, which is hardly a game breaking power, shouldn't need every dark controller/defender turned into a speed gunky on their entire powerset and invest hunderds of millions in specialty IOs to fix. Traps has a couple, there are certainly others. Hasten and IO twinking ought to be for people who are trying to develop speed over their ENTIRE set and the costs involved should of course, reflect the benefit they get from that.

 

This is the real problem and the only real problem with ED in the end (now that we have IOs, sets and Incarnate stuffs). That sometimes ONE power is balanced against a completely unnecessarily ridiculous character build, rather than what should be ordinarily achievable at around lvl 40 when base powersets are complete.

 

Don't make NON-twink character PAY to TWINK just for one or two powers.

[Nic Mercy]

ED is fine because inventions. It was during the period between when ED was introduced but inventions had not yet been implemented that it was problem.

 

Removing ED would cause an extreme imbalance in the game with inventions stacked on top. Inventions already can make virtually any character into a juggernaut. Removing ED is unnecessary at this point.

[subbacultchas]

I'm against this change as well. I was also a very vocal critic of it, posted several rather butthurt threads on the original forums. But I came around on it, found some decent slottings that actually worked better, and with IO's I'm a firm believer in it. Sorry OP, I get why you'd want it but I think it would potentially unbalance the game now to neuter it.

[Solarverse]

Would it be possible? Of course, yes.

 

Should we? I don't think so. ED ended up being good for the game, especially with the introduction of Inventions and the Incarnate content that let you go crazier with the powers if you "earn" it.

 

This right here. Nothing else needs to be said other than the fact the pre ED would not work with the current system of IO's. This is what the bonuses were for, to overcome ED. Characters are much more powerful now than they were pre ED due to IO's. IO's changed everything.