Barrier Needs a Nerf

[Dark Current]

All the incarnate abilities are OP. They were not meant for 'regular' play.

[skoryy]

1 hour ago, Zeraphia said:

This is kind of what I'm referencing, but Barrier itself makes even incarnate content too easy.

So?

[macskull]

8 hours ago, Zeraphia said:

Oh yes, a Psi/Bio Stalker in PvP deciding to tag-team people with Concentration + GPB + all the procs it can take (instantly oneshotting literally anything) then popping up barrier to force themselves back into hide to do it all again, and reshuffling the barriers with a friend isn't broken at all...

1. The only thing a Psi/Bio might be able to one-shot with that combination is a squishy with no HP bonuses, and that's a real big might.
2. The Stalker has to be in melee range to use that attack which means as long as you are moving you are making their job much harder.
3. If this is actually an issue (it's not) bring something to counter the Stalker - something with -stealth, something with a higher perception cap, whatever. 
4. Again, you can effectively ignore them for the 10-30 seconds where Barrier is most powerful. Are Stalkers annoying? Sure. Are they a threat? Not if you play intelligently.

8 hours ago, Zeraphia said:

On a well-balanced team with colds/thermals/etc. in support, yes. But to say that an effect is "underpowered" because there are support sets (you're forced to play MM/Defender/Controller/Corruptor to use them) that can stack, is a poor argument, because like I said, you're forced to have to play one of those and deal with their shortcomings. You do not have to deal with any shortcomings at all for ATs to use barrier. It's the least beneficial Destiny when your team is highly optimized, it's by far the most beneficial one with any sort of lesser-optimized one that doesn't include lots of support buffs. 

On an SO-only build, Barrier provides excellent survivability... for about 30 seconds. At best you're getting 1/4 uptime on the largest portions of those buffs. It doesn't need to be nerfed.

[ShardWarrior]

9 hours ago, Zeraphia said:

Oh yes, a Psi/Bio Stalker in PvP deciding to tag-team people with Concentration + GPB + all the procs it can take (instantly oneshotting literally anything) then popping up barrier to force themselves back into hide to do it all again, and reshuffling the barriers with a friend isn't broken at all...

Sounds like good team work to me.  Perhaps find some friends to help you out to counter them? 

[Zeraphia]

53 minutes ago, macskull said:

1. The only thing a Psi/Bio might be able to one-shot with that combination is a squishy with no HP bonuses, and that's a real big might.
2. The Stalker has to be in melee range to use that attack which means as long as you are moving you are making their job much harder.
3. If this is actually an issue (it's not) bring something to counter the Stalker - something with -stealth, something with a higher perception cap, whatever. 
4. Again, you can effectively ignore them for the 10-30 seconds where Barrier is most powerful. Are Stalkers annoying? Sure. Are they a threat? Not if you play intelligently.

On an SO-only build, Barrier provides excellent survivability... for about 30 seconds. At best you're getting 1/4 uptime on the largest portions of those buffs. It doesn't need to be nerfed.

I may have missed the point with you. I didn't mean to say they directly oneshot you by themselves, they get a friend, get on a team, and they both whack some poor unsuspecting victim with GPB at the same time in a coordinated strike (or... the ever-lovingly infamous Dankz dualboxer-type). There is no counterplay to it, Blaster max HP + max resistances with plant absorb in secondary got oneshot. Higher perception works on some ATs who can see through Stalker stealth (VEATs), but not most ATs (probably less than 5% of viable combos). I would not doubt by any means doing this wouldn't kill most Sentinels or even other Stalkers either, probably a lot of well-built Scrappers as well.

 

They are sincerely a threat for the mentions above^ 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Zeraphia

[macskull]

27 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

I may have missed the point with you. I didn't mean to say they directly oneshot you by themselves, they get a friend, get on a team, and they both whack some poor unsuspecting victim with GPB at the same time in a coordinated strike (or... the ever-lovingly infamous Dankz dualboxer-type). There is no counterplay to it, Blaster max HP + max resistances with plant absorb in secondary got oneshot. Higher perception works on some ATs who can see through Stalker stealth (VEATs), but not most ATs (probably less than 5% of viable combos). I would not doubt by any means doing this wouldn't kill most Sentinels or even other Stalkers either, probably a lot of well-built Scrappers as well.

 

They are sincerely a threat for the mentions above^ 

So your point here has nothing to do with Barrier and everything to do with Greater Psi Blade (which yeah its PvP damage is overtuned). Like I said though, the best counterplay is to keep moving to at least give you a window to do something. I don't remember the last time when I was randomly whacked out of nowhere while I was doing something other than 1) standing still or 2) planting in animations and not being conscious of that.

[Black Zot]

36 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

I may have missed the point with you. I didn't mean to say they directly oneshot you by themselves, they get a friend, get on a team, and they both whack some poor unsuspecting victim with GPB at the same time in a coordinated strike (or... the ever-lovingly infamous Dankz dualboxer-type). There is no counterplay to it, Blaster max HP + max resistances with plant absorb in secondary got oneshot. Higher perception works on some ATs who can see through Stalker stealth (VEATs), but not most ATs (probably less than 5% of viable combos). I would not doubt by any means doing this wouldn't kill most Sentinels or even other Stalkers either, probably a lot of well-built Scrappers as well.

 

They are sincerely a threat for the mentions above^ 

 

So you want to take away something people worked to earn, just because you're salty you got wrecked in a PvP system which is and always was an afterthought to the devs, and never had or will have any semblance of balance?  And the thing you want to take away wasn't even part of the combo that wrecked you?

 

Go cry somewhere else and leave people's fun alone.

[Zeraphia]

2 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

 

So you want to take away something people worked to earn, just because you're salty you got wrecked in a PvP system which is and always was an afterthought to the devs, and never had or will have any semblance of balance?  And the thing you want to take away wasn't even part of the combo that wrecked you?

 

Go cry somewhere else and leave people's fun alone.

You completely assumed that's the reason I made this post, and it wasn't until someone else BROUGHT UP pvp that I even mentioned it. You're attacking me ridiculously for no reason.

 

I'm not replying to the rest of this thread. I've had a hard week as it is emotionally. I'm not going to be attacked and name called for assumptions that aren't true. 

[Black Zot]

4 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

You completely assumed that's the reason I made this post, and it wasn't until someone else BROUGHT UP pvp that I even mentioned it. You're attacking me ridiculously for no reason.

 

I'm not replying to the rest of this thread. I've had a hard week as it is emotionally. I'm not going to be attacked and name called for assumptions that aren't true. 

 

So now you're ragequitting the thread because your last-gasp argument got dismantled just like every other bit of BS you brought out to support your nerfherding.  Good riddance.

[MTeague]

8 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

 

So now you're ragequitting the thread because your last-gasp argument got dismantled just like every other bit of BS you brought out to support your nerfherding.  Good riddance.

I really don't think this was called for. 

EVEN IF every word you have said is true, which is really just a chain of assumptions that that was Zeraphia's motives, what do you gain from making a post like this?

[plainguy]

I just read 2 pages of people saying the same exact thing in different ways and with pictures..  

 

Knee jerk reaction on the OP part.. It happens. 

 

 

[Heraclea]

Barrier lets me tank Recluse in the MsLTF without having a pocket buffer or to otherwise worry about team composition.  As such, it is keeping the game on the right track. 

[macskull]

5 hours ago, Black Zot said:

 

So you want to take away something people worked to earn, just because you're salty you got wrecked in a PvP system which is and always was an afterthought to the devs, and never had or will have any semblance of balance?  And the thing you want to take away wasn't even part of the combo that wrecked you?

 

Go cry somewhere else and leave people's fun alone.

Hold on a second here - I disagree with the OP about whether Barrier needs a nerf, but PvP wasn't even brought up in this thread until I mentioned it. Most PvP-related issues can be dealt with with either some forethought or some teammates but a response like yours is nothing short of toxic (and people call PvPers toxic).

[Shred Monkey]

The choices under destiny slot are all pretty good.  They are certainly more useful than interface, and in most situations more useful than Lore and Assault...  EXCEPT when they're completely useless.   Which believe it or not, is most of the time.   You see, if nobody is dying without barrier cast, then casting barrier doesn't actually help the team at all.  And most of the time, in this game, in content where players have incarnate powers, nobody needs Barrier to stay alive.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Shred Monkey

[Solarverse]

If I were to be the first to respond, I would have said exactly what @MTeague has said. So instead of saying it in my own words, I will just say it in his, with the exception of just one spelling error. So it goes as follows...

 

 

Full Disclosure:  I tend to level 45-50 by getting XP while exemplared in 44-or-below content because I feel so damn useless / carried on a lvl 47 when a team of 50's is being incarnate gods and trivializing all content.   I don't mind it once I'm ALSO one of those fully-incarnated out 50's. But I absolutely loathe the feeling of being carried.  And when you're a 47 on a team of full incarnates, you could be replaced by a chipmunk and no one would notice.

 

That said.

 

I do not think Barrier should be weakened. 

 

Good / Bad / Indifferent, the Incarnate System is literally designed to make your character feel like a god among mortals.

I mean, that was literally the design intent of the entire thing, backed up by story arcs and cut-scenes in the Mender Ramiel arc.

 

Yes, this does truly unspeakable things to game balance, and I don't think game balance has a "Safe Word" to say "stop enough!".

But, frankly, pre-incarnate groups can do the same thing if you have a team with a Force Fields, plus Cold Domination plus Sonic Resonance, plus Thermal Radiation.

That entire team will be maxed defense / max resist the entire time if they use their buffs intelligently, from like, lvl 15 all the way to 50.

Or just a team of 8 Empaths all buffing each other to SKY-HIGH defenses and regeneration levels that would make a willpower brute cry in envy.