Are Player Defenses too high

[EmmySky]

31 minutes ago, ZeeHero said:

COH is never going to deliver a fun challenge to intelligent players.

Hyperbole much?

 

As an intelligent player, I find fun challenge all the time.  How best to add these two new slots to gain the most benefit on this baby hero with powerset I've never played?  Solo through some ouro arcs I haven't experienced in a decade.  Come up with a new and interesting costume I have made 100 times already.  Show off to my new teammies how my defender is secretly an alpha absorbing beast.

 

Lots of fun challenges if you look at it the right way round.

[ClawsandEffect]

Going to chime in here with my .02 influence. 

 

I don't want to see defense or resistance reduced at all. 

 

At the end of the day, CoH is a 16 year old game that was never that difficult in the first place, and only got easier over time as people learned the ins and outs of the mechanics and shared that knowledge. 

 

Personally, I find that the game IS easy. Ridiculously so in some cases. And I would prefer that it STAY that way. 

 

I can't speak for everyone, but I personally tend to log in and play after a long, sometimes frustrating, work day. The LAST thing I want is for the entertainment I choose to unwind with to be just as frustrating as my work day was. If I want a challenge I have literally thousands of more difficult games to choose from. When I log into CoH I want it to be easy, fun, and stress free. I want to laugh about getting killed repeatedly by something instead of being frustrated by it. I don't want to have the anxiety of worrying that I'm going to be the one to screw up a raid it took hours or days to prepare for. 

 

Would I like there to be the OPTION of some more challenging aspect of the game? Sure. But I accepted the minute I heard the game was playable by the general public again that anything like that was a pipe dream. Because the HC team (or any of the dev teams on different servers, really) doesn't have the resources necessary to really add much to the game. New powersets are possible, but if you look at them they are all using mechanics that already existed and are mostly using recycled animations. There is very little of the new stuff we've seen here that is actually NEW. That leads to the scenario where the only way to make the game more challenging across the board is to nerf player capabilities. And I don't want to see that happen, because I play the game to get away from things that are stressing me out in real life, and don't want my entertainment to be stressful too. 

[ZeeHero]

8 minutes ago, EmmySky said:

Hyperbole much?

 

As an intelligent player, I find fun challenge all the time.  How best to add these two new slots to gain the most benefit on this baby hero with powerset I've never played?  Solo through some ouro arcs I haven't experienced in a decade.  Come up with a new and interesting costume I have made 100 times already.  Show off to my new teammies how my defender is secretly an alpha absorbing beast.

 

Lots of fun challenges if you look at it the right way round.

oh there is challenge in COH but not in the actual combat/gameplay, at least not the fun, fair kind.

 

The fun challenges in COH have always been not directly related to combat, and that is what I was referring to. and by combat I mean the system and not building a powerful character. the base system is not good. the animation lock on everything, how slooooow it is, the tab targeting nightmare. its NOT a fun combat system. COH is good for many reasons and that is NOT one of them.

[Herotu]

2 minutes ago, ZeeHero said:

oh there is challenge in COH but not in the actual combat/gameplay, at least not the fun, fair kind.

 

The fun challenges in COH have always been not directly related to combat, and that is what I was referring to. and by combat I mean the system and not building a powerful character. the base system is not good. the animation lock on everything, how slooooow it is, the tab targeting nightmare. its NOT a fun combat system. COH is good for many reasons and that is NOT one of them.

That's an interesting assessment.

 

As someone who was around for the first iteration of the game, I'm old enough to appreciate a slow combat system. I think there should be MORE of them! A momentum system (not like titan weapons, that's not a great implementation of the concept imo), might be a good way to tackle that. Where slow attacks hit harder and fast attacks hit for less, but I don't want enemies to be dodging the slow attacks either, because you just end up with "skilled" players on the fast characters making a joke out of the "heavy missers". It's a tricky one.

 

Where Tab targetting is concerned,  I think I can do without it but I don't want to manually aim.

[ZeeHero]

1 minute ago, Herotu said:

That's an interesting assessment.

 

As someone who was around for the first iteration of the game, I'm old enough to appreciate a slow combat system. I think there should be MORE of them! A momentum system (not like titan weapons, that's not a great implementation of the concept imo), might be a good way to tackle that. Where slow attacks hit harder and fast attacks hit for less, but I don't want enemies to be dodging the slow attacks either, because you just end up with "skilled" players on the fast characters making a joke out of the "heavy missers". It's a tricky one.

 

Where Tab targetting is concerned,  I think I can do without it but I don't want to manually aim.

Slow combat systems are ok but it really depends HOW you implement it. COH does not do it right at all.

 

Examples of fun slow combat systems include Stellaris (Real time) and Fire Emblem (turn based) and Final Fantasy 6 (sort of both)

 

best example of a combat system fit for super heroes I have played is Phantasy Star Online 2, where enemies all have weak points, and you can target and lock onto those points if you like, but still attack other things if you turn far enough away from it, and theres an easy to use free aim you can swap in and out of with a single keypress.

Edited June 19, 2020 by ZeeHero

[Seed22]

1 hour ago, ZeeHero said:

No but from your post I can tell you are a hardline "Nerf everything nerfs are always the answer" person so I cant take anything you say seriously.

 

This is COH. it sucks from a gameplay/combat perspective, and the engine is old enough its impossible to make a truly fun challenge in the gameplay. Leave. It. Alone.

90% of the people who are playing HC now will probably leave if they do any significant nerfs to survivability in most sets. 

 

We dont play for challenge becuase COH isnt a challenge and never was and never will be a truly fun challenge. sure, COH was harder back in the day, but not in a good way at all given the combat system and mechanics.

 

If you want a challenge go raid in FFXIV or play Dark Souls games. COH is never going to deliver a fun challenge to intelligent players. give up the nerf herding. go whine in another game.

You’re from CO. A game that literally requires NO thought to be good at, and the playerbase STILL messes up giant monsters(not even raids, GIANT. MONSTERS.) I’m sorry, but while CoH is fairly easy, Its at least not that. And also, as others have reiterated, CoH doesnt have to be darksouls. I dare you to play through the AE incarnate arcs though if you want challenge. If my powerhouse builds are challenged by it and they solo GMs/AVs, im sure youll easily have more than enough on your hands to handle. Good luck 

[ZeeHero]

2 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

You’re from CO. A game that literally requires NO thought to be good at, and the playerbase STILL messes up giant monsters(not even raids, GIANT. MONSTERS.) I’m sorry, but while CoH is fairly easy, Its at least not that. And also, as others have reiterated, CoH doesnt have to be darksouls. I dare you to play through the AE incarnate arcs though if you want challenge. If my powerhouse builds are challenged by it and they solo GMs/AVs, im sure youll easily have more than enough on your hands to handle. Good luck 

CO is an awful game, full of terrible design. as a former CO player who played for 7 years before my eyes were opened I know this better than almost anyone.

 

when I said CO combat was better what I meant was the system itself, and thats not saying much since its fairly bad there as well.

 

CO mechanics suck even worse than COH. CO is by far the inferior game all in all. fact is it does one to 3 things better, not enough of course.

 

COH combat is very, very far from ideal, probably the worst I've played. but at least COH powers are good, buffs are king over healing, and people can make way more concepts work.

 

I Take back nothing my statement was correct. you simply misunderstood what it was about.

[Coyote]

2 hours ago, ZeeHero said:

COH is never going to deliver a fun challenge to intelligent players.

 

Lotsa hyperbole.

 

Many new missions like the fights against the two Colonel Durays and Director 11 are pretty interesting and challenging. Older fights aren't as challenging, but just having SOME interesting fights shows that the system can handle it.

Save item missions, and save the NPC missions where the NPC is aggressive are also a challenge even for good builds.

The Night Ward arc has several challenging missions.

 

Also, a pass to balance set bonuses so that +Defense and +Recharge are less obviously the supreme choices, and other choices become more palatable... is a balance pass, not nerf herding.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

1 hour ago, ZeeHero said:

CO is an awful game, full of terrible design. as a former CO player who played for 7 years before my eyes were opened I know this better than almost anyone.

 

when I said CO combat was better what I meant was the system itself, and thats not saying much since its fairly bad there as well.

 

CO mechanics suck even worse than COH. CO is by far the inferior game all in all. fact is it does one to 3 things better, not enough of course.

 

COH combat is very, very far from ideal, probably the worst I've played. but at least COH powers are good, buffs are king over healing, and people can make way more concepts work.

 

I Take back nothing my statement was correct. you simply misunderstood what it was about.

No we just all have a very different PoV and your stating a very personal opinion as if its some fact. A great many people enjoy the pace and approach CoH takes for combat myself among them. Is it the only kind of game I play? Ofcourse not, I play different games for different gaming itches. If I want fast paced hack and slash game play I go to Path of Exile or Warframe. If I want a tactical challenge I play  something like Silent Storm 2, If I want a good non turn based RPG I play CoH. Because its approach is just slow enough it takes only abit of active attention, but is fast enough I cant just tab and hit a attack chain macro while net flixing. I mean I probably could, but since I actually enjoy the game play I dont.

[ZeeHero]

Just now, Bentley Berkeley said:

No we just all have a very different PoV and your stating a very personal opinion as if its some fact. A great many people enjoy the pace and approach CoH takes for combat myself among them. Is it the only kind of game I play? Ofcourse not, I play different games for different gaming itches. If I want fast paced hack and slash game play I go to Path of Exile or Warframe. If I want a tactical challenge I play  something like Silent Storm 2, If I want a good non turn based RPG I play CoH. Because its approach is just slow enough it takes only abit of active attention, but is fast enough I cant just tab and hit a attack chain macro while net flixing. I mean I probably could, but since I actually enjoy the game play I dont.

My intention is not to  state my opinion as universal fact but as a fact for most players of these games today. a game with COH combat system but not COH customization and freedom would never survive today. why? becuase the combat system in the opinion of an overwhelming majority is garbage. some may like it, and good for them, it means they can have even MORE fun with the game.

 

but those people need to accept that that opinion is a tiny minority, and most people think the combat is trash. most people also recognize the game itself is great, no game is perfect.

[ForeverLaxx]

7 hours ago, ZeeHero said:

No but from your post I can tell you are a hardline "Nerf everything nerfs are always the answer" person

Nice assumption. It's wrong, though.

 

The person I was talking about shows up in many threads about challenge or powerset changes and demands everything else be brought up to that level rather than taking a single powerset down. They don't seem to care what any baseline may or may not be. Power creep is already bad enough and we don't need more of it.

 

Don't try to pretend you know what I like to play, what I find fun, what I find challenging, or implying that I'm a "nerf herder". That's such an idiotic boogeyman and frankly you're embarrassing for even taking it there. Being able to recognize an issue with the base game and the players' over-reliance on defense set bonuses doesn't mean I'm clamoring for those juicy nerfs. It's not something that can be easily changed and, frankly, I don't think the HC devs want to change it. It seems pretty clear to me that high-level builds being nearly untouchable gods of destruction is what they want, but that doesn't mean it doesn't trivialize what was already a fairly simplistic game. Most of what these builds save is time in a run, anyway, and the only real consequence is that half the team feels completely useless.

 

So why don't you take your own advice and:

7 hours ago, ZeeHero said:

go whine in another game.

because that's all you've done here. Whine about something that didn't exist because you wanted to get on a soapbox.

[ZeeHero]

I state my opinion becuase it matters and becuase some people would have COH turned into a "Challenge" (Super sarcasm).

 

COH will never offer a fun challenge to the vast majority of non super disabled or very old gamers. No offense if you are old or disabled, but you are not the majority in that case. I say it may be fun if you are, becuase then COH's slow and lame combat is all you may be capable of handling.

 

For most of us we'd much rather be enjoying a real combat system for a challenge and real team mechanics. COH has nothing close to what most other games today offer in that regard. COH does NOT have merit in its combat over other games and no amount of ignorant objection will change that.

 

COH is good becuase it is a fun playground to make powerful superheroes, socialize and play with builds. Challenge is never going to be a major factor, and if you try to make it one, you'll lose critical mas of players.

 

the following is fact, most of us are not here to be challenged. for those who are, if you nerf our defenses to increase "Challenge" we will simply stop logging in altogether. you'll find it difficult to form teams at all ever.

 

Go ahead and destroy your own game. you'll lose it a 2nd time and have no one but your own arrogant, selfish selves to blame. Not like I play anymore, this kind of selfishness is why I dont.

 

The people demanding global nerfs to player defenses/resists should be ignored entirely. becuase they are self destructive.

Edited June 19, 2020 by ZeeHero

[Twisted Toon]

11 hours ago, ZeeHero said:

My intention is not to  state my opinion as universal fact but as a fact for most players of these games today. a game with COH combat system but not COH customization and freedom would never survive today. why? becuase the combat system in the opinion of an overwhelming majority is garbage. some may like it, and good for them, it means they can have even MORE fun with the game.

 

but those people need to accept that that opinion is a tiny minority, and most people think the combat is trash. most people also recognize the game itself is great, no game is perfect.

Where are you getting your statistics?

[Coyotedancer]

Why are you guys still taking Zee's bait?

[DrInfernus]

13 hours ago, ZeeHero said:

My intention is not to  state my opinion as universal fact but as a fact for most players of these games today. a game with COH combat system but not COH customization and freedom would never survive today. why? becuase the combat system in the opinion of an overwhelming majority is garbage. some may like it, and good for them, it means they can have even MORE fun with the game.

 

but those people need to accept that that opinion is a tiny minority, and most people think the combat is trash. most people also recognize the game itself is great, no game is perfect.

You keep on claiming you’re talking ‘for the overwhelming majority’ but it’s important you accept you’re only talking for yourself. That’s all any of us can do and, to be honest, it’s enough.
 

Your opinion is you don’t like the combat system. Absolutely fair enough. My opinion is the combat system is really good and I enjoy it immensely. Neither of our opinions are worth any more than each other’s, and no matter how much you try to amplify yours and undermine any alternative view, that won’t change. 
 

Please stop talking down to us like you’re some kind of singular truth-seeing guru and voice of the masses. You’re not. Period. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by DrInfernus

[Sovera]

On 6/10/2020 at 5:21 PM, Sakura Tenshi said:

semi off-topic, but I think a big issue is that a lot of invention sets, as they are right now, just don't offer enough, much less good enough bonuses to build for anything but +defense and +recharge. I recently just tried to build a blaster heavily towards +damage sets, and you know what I managed? +35% damage, which isn't anything to sneeze at necessarily, but still quite dismal, especially since getting sufficient recharge effectively is doubling your damage output, and you can't really put out damage if you're dead. So I sort of view part of the issue is that other sets just don't offer sufficient bonuses in areas other than defense and recharge to really appeal.

 

As a side note, the matter is further complicated by how resistance has a hard cap on it compared to defense, which further incentivizes towards defense focused building. On the otherhand, sets like Ninjutsu (even scrapper and sentinel versions) and super reflexes which are extremely defense focused with almost no resistances to speak of feel incredibly fragile because as much as they can ram their defenses, the moment they are hit, they go down and go down hard. So defenses are basically 'too high' for characters who are using sets not built for defense, but can achieve it anyway, while it hovers nearly 'too low' for defense oriented sets.

What is telling also is how the numbers don't make much sense. To reach 45% defense we have bonuses that range from 0.6% all the way to 5%. To reach 75% resists we have bonuses that range... from 1% to 6%.

 

So while anyone can reach softcap to slash and lethal not many can or will reach the same for resistances.

 

But wait. Then this is further skewed that any element that has a S/L component uses S/L to deflect the whole. Huge thermonuclear nuke with 99% Energy damage and 1% Smash damage? Our smash defenses will magnificently dodge the thermonuclear nuke.

 

The much harder to achieve resistance to smash and lethal in the same instance will magnificently diminish the 1% of smash damage while we fry from the 99% energy damage component.

 

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

6 hours ago, ZeeHero said:

I state my opinion becuase it matters and becuase some people would have COH turned into a "Challenge" (Super sarcasm).

 

COH will never offer a fun challenge to the vast majority of non super disabled or very old gamers. No offense if you are old or disabled, but you are not the majority in that case. I say it may be fun if you are, becuase then COH's slow and lame combat is all you may be capable of handling.

 

For most of us we'd much rather be enjoying a real combat system for a challenge and real team mechanics. COH has nothing close to what most other games today offer in that regard. COH does NOT have merit in its combat over other games and no amount of ignorant objection will change that.

 

COH is good becuase it is a fun playground to make powerful superheroes, socialize and play with builds. Challenge is never going to be a major factor, and if you try to make it one, you'll lose critical mas of players.

 

the following is fact, most of us are not here to be challenged. for those who are, if you nerf our defenses to increase "Challenge" we will simply stop logging in altogether. you'll find it difficult to form teams at all ever.

 

Go ahead and destroy your own game. you'll lose it a 2nd time and have no one but your own arrogant, selfish selves to blame. Not like I play anymore, this kind of selfishness is why I dont.

 

The people demanding global nerfs to player defenses/resists should be ignored entirely. becuase they are self destructive.

Real challenge? Real Team mechanics?

 

You seem to somehow be unaware how during its original official life CoH was routinely the most positively spoken of across MMO review sites, That CoH had a legendary retention rate for players unrivaled in MMOdom, and the primary reason being how easy it was to just team with people thanks to the side kick/ explar system. And yes a great many commented on how smartly CoHs tab targeting was compared to many other MMO then, and frankly most MMO made in the last 10 years are made to be cross platform app mmo so um yeah by their very nature they are more somple.

 

For example CoHs tab target is very good at targeting the nearest foe first but cycles through those in range pretty well, I myself use a mix of tab and point click as needed. Compared to say DDO an mmo that has been going on like 15 or 16 years now, and still has one of the worst tab target systems in MMOdom, and suffers from extremely sensitive facing, so if your turned even a little bit too far in a direction your attacks and spells will whiff right by foes. Yet DDO players will state the same "FAACTS" as you do, that their MMO has the best combat system in any game ever and nothing else could ever rival it. Its actually very dull and repetitive hack and slash so actually only at best unique in MMOdom but not best.

 

Now for a fun combat simulator game, Id say Playing Mount and Blade online pvp is about the "Best" from the perspective of needing real time skill and understanding the underlying mechanics of each weapons speed,reach, etc. Its got a simple to learn but truly difficult to master kind of control system for melee fighting I highly rec all pick up a copy of old mount and blade warband when it is on sale on steam to mess around with.

 

Among modern online games Id personally hold up Warframe as the standard. In part because it is a true FTP title that boast some damn fine graphics, and incredibly fluid gameplay. Its basically a looter/shooter and hack and slash sci game in a 3d environment, not so much a real RPG though. Still if you want to reall appreciate the difference between characters with various super powers Warframe isa  hell of a lotta fun. Became a game I mained after the end of coh on live because it gave me the best super power fix of any game option. And even now Im actively playing it during its events more than CoH here just because it is a very addictive in a fun way game loop.

 

Finally if you dont play here anymore, why are you even posting? I mean there are other CoH servers, make your own private server as an option now. The community here isnt a bunch of nerf herders, every nerf suggestion gets plenty of push back. There have been plenty of buffs to things that needed them. And the HC team seems wise enough to go slow on such changes and use metrics and data more than players rambling on the forums to guide their ultimate actions which I think a good thing.

 

So really if you indeed have left HC, then frankly I think thats best for you and all of us here. While your at it could you delete this forums web page from your favorites and stop acting like a cyber stalker?

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

3 minutes ago, Sovera said:

What is telling also is how the numbers don't make much sense. To reach 45% defense we have bonuses that range from 0.6% all the way to 5%. To reach 75% resists we have bonuses that range... from 1% to 6%.

 

So while anyone can reach softcap to slash and lethal not many can or will reach the same for resistances.

 

But wait. Then this is further skewed that any element that has a S/L component uses S/L to deflect the whole. Huge thermonuclear nuke with 99% Energy damage and 1% Smash damage? Our smash defenses will magnificently dodge the thermonuclear nuke.

 

The much harder to achieve resistance to smash and lethal in the same instance will magnificently diminish the 1% of smash damage while we fry from the 99% energy damage component.

 

Uhm what your talking about is as old as RPGs. In good old D&D on the table top with the dice. A wizard brings down a meteor swarm upon the village your trying to protect. A few make their reflex saves and while not moving an inch will take half dmg( or none if a rogue type with improved evasion) Those who do take the mixture of physical dmg and fire dmg, may well due to magical protections entirely negate the fire dmg, but there are very few means to entirely negate the physical dmg as completely as physical DR spells tend to top out around 30, while elemental immunity can be granted by magic spells and items.

 

I mean they are games, they use mechanics, the mechanics are not always perfect for every possible encounter but thats what imagination is for.

 

We have different damage types, we build to endure them based on our core AT and power sets best we can. None of us are entitled to reach certain levels of resistance or defense unless those numbers are part of our core power sets.

 

Slashing and lethal are basically mundane dmg types, physical type dmg is typically seen as such in all RPGs. Hence why its typically on different scales and magnitudes than magical energy damage types.

 

Hell want to know something really crazy, according to a response from the developers for D&D in an issue of Dragon years ago, they stated a magical source of flame burns at 1000 degrees per D6 of dmg dice, meaning a 10D6 fire ball burns at 10,000 degrees, hotter than the sun. Yet heat that should vaporize iron can be simply evaded by a highly skilled rogue,ranger, or monk when just having that heat with in any distance of you would be enough to burn you to nothingness.

 

Like I said they are games first.  trying to add logic to why a character can survive constant energy attacks especially on characters who are not superman will just make you start going HM batman should tear his shoulder out of his socket every time he uses his grapnel to stop himself after falling 20 stories.

[Ukase]

Many of you make some fine arguments for different changes on different sides of the issue. 

I'll be very candid. To me, there are several aspects of CoH that are fairly simple to someone who's leveled a character to t-4 incarnate a few times (or more). 

For a newer, less-experienced player, those aspects aren't as simple. A small learning curve for those folks. I envy them, a bit. 

 

It's very easy to say, "If the game is too easy, don't use IOs, or turn off all your inspirations at p2w."  (or other suggestions along those lines.) 

Yet, someone pointed out that there's no true incentive to do this - you still get the same rewards, regardless of how simple/difficult you have things set at. 

Yet, isn't playing it the way you like it reward enough? For some, maybe, but certainly not for everyone, or we wouldn't be having the debate. 


CoH was missing for most of us for ...8 years? I forget. A long time. HC had made a lot of changes that I imagine most of us were unaware of to make things a lot easier, as they were accustomed to a much smaller player base than HC now enjoys.  Because of these changes, it's much easier for folks to establish solid builds, and the "ease" of the game is more noticeable for more people. 

 

 

I would suggest if you find HC's version too easy, head to another private server and try out the different flavors. I'm NOT suggesting you leave HC altogether, but just try them out, and see if you're suffering from palate fatigue. Maybe another flavor would be better? I don't see any sense in suggesting HC devs spend time changing things in game that already work just fine. 

I am afraid that with things the way they are now - if HC were to try to put things back in "pandora's box", most of the players would rebel and rage quit. I could certainly be wrong, though. Still, nothing wrong with a discussion about how things could be, I suppose. 

[Sovera]

4 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Uhm what your talking about is as old as RPGs. In good old D&D on the table top with the dice. A wizard brings down a meteor swarm upon the village your trying to protect. A few make their reflex saves and while not moving an inch will take half dmg( or none if a rogue type with improved evasion) Those who do take the mixture of physical dmg and fire dmg, may well due to magical protections entirely negate the fire dmg, but there are very few means to entirely negate the physical dmg as completely as physical DR spells tend to top out around 30, while elemental immunity can be granted by magic spells and items.

You're missing the point, or perhaps I was not clear enough since I started to ramble.

 

We are on the subject of bonuses in IOs. Resistance and defenses have roughly the same bonuses despite their (soft)caps being a sizable chunk apart. A Brute is well screwed with this with them not getting defensive bonuses like Tankers have. That means their 90% hardcap is a goal waaaaay out of hand for anything other than specialized farming where they can bend their whole build to reach certain goals.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

3 hours ago, Sovera said:

You're missing the point, or perhaps I was not clear enough since I started to ramble.

 

We are on the subject of bonuses in IOs. Resistance and defenses have roughly the same bonuses despite their (soft)caps being a sizable chunk apart. A Brute is well screwed with this with them not getting defensive bonuses like Tankers have. That means their 90% hardcap is a goal waaaaay out of hand for anything other than specialized farming where they can bend their whole build to reach certain goals.

Uhm brutes do dmg on an entirely different magnitude than tankers. Those caps are not something a build solo is entitled to reach just because. Defense in general as an all or nothing mechanic and via set bonuses is far less impactful on the game, since without debuff resistance soft defense fails rapidly were as even debuffed dmg res still mitigates some dmg. A brute is not screwed just because they cant cap a resistance. No more than people using soft defense are screwed because they dont have debuff resistance.

 

To protect oneself from debuffing with soft def, if I recall a thread from lives years ago by a major number cruncher there, one would need to keep their def values at least into the 60%is range, and ideally more like 70% so that when attacks slip through with debuffs there is still enough over def to keep the mitigation high enough to counter act the debuff spiral. Hell its why even a pure def set like SR is well advised to shoot for as much def as possible so should they get caught up in a mass mob with tons of debuffs flying, it simply cant beat the def down fast enough.

[Leogunner]

12 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Uhm brutes do dmg on an entirely different magnitude than tankers. Those caps are not something a build solo is entitled to reach just because. Defense in general as an all or nothing mechanic and via set bonuses is far less impactful on the game, since without debuff resistance soft defense fails rapidly were as even debuffed dmg res still mitigates some dmg. A brute is not screwed just because they cant cap a resistance. No more than people using soft defense are screwed because they dont have debuff resistance.

 

To protect oneself from debuffing with soft def, if I recall a thread from lives years ago by a major number cruncher there, one would need to keep their def values at least into the 60%is range, and ideally more like 70% so that when attacks slip through with debuffs there is still enough over def to keep the mitigation high enough to counter act the debuff spiral. Hell its why even a pure def set like SR is well advised to shoot for as much def as possible so should they get caught up in a mass mob with tons of debuffs flying, it simply cant beat the def down fast enough.

You must be intentionally remaining obtuse to the points being made.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

16 hours ago, Leogunner said:

You must be intentionally remaining obtuse to the points being made.

Thanks for reminding me why your on ignore, My reply is aimed at, and obviously so, their saying brutes are somehow unfairly screwed over. Yes the larger topic is IO sets and their bonuses, but their post seems to imply that the Brute, due to their high dmg res cap, should be entitled to maxing those, and that IO dmg res bonuses should be higher to help them achieve that.

 

Someone here is certainly being willfully obtuse but it isnt I methinks.

[Leogunner]

27 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Thanks for reminding me why your on ignore, My reply is aimed at, and obviously so, their saying brutes are somehow unfairly screwed over. Yes the larger topic is IO sets and their bonuses, but their post seems to imply that the Brute, due to their high dmg res cap, should be entitled to maxing those, and that IO dmg res bonuses should be higher to help them achieve that.

 

Someone here is certainly being willfully obtuse but it isnt I methinks.

Wow, perhaps I was wrong in you being obtuse and should have just said you aren't being observant.

 

The Brute example is just that: an example.  No idea why you would laser focus on an example to get a point across.  The point was actually that the amount of mitigation an amount of defense gives you vs a similar amount of resistance is very skewed in favor of defense and that skew is further exacerbated by the values of the IO bonuses.  There are other factors that skew this in favor of defense, which have also been outlined, but you seemed to have ignored that, which is why I would have said you were being obtuse about this.

 

If you're so versed and studied in the realm of game mechanics and their uses in RPGs, this should be an obvious fact to you...which is the point you seem to be taking a country mile detour to avoid.

[Twisted Toon]

What ratio is there between npc foes that have -def and those that have -res?

 

I'm just asking because might that have a tiny little bit to do with the issue?