PSA: The Instanced MSR Exists

[Apparition]

On October 1, 2019, the instanced Rikti mothership raid was added to the game.  It's a trial for 16 to 48 players that you can form in any zone, although the best bets are either Kallisti Wharf or Pocket D due to their zone caps of 200 PCs.  I've run two or three per week since then on the Excelsior server, one every Thursday evening, and one or two on the weekends.

 

Unfortunately, I appear to be the only person that runs them on Homecoming, which is a shame.  As far as I am concerned, the only legitimate reason to run a zone MSR is the Unabashed badge.  The instanced MSR is superior to the zone MSR in every other way.  There is much less lag, there is a guaranteed Rikti Drop Ship spawn, everyone in the instance can get Vanguard merits no matter how far away they are from the rest of the team, and everyone has to be level 35+, so if there is a full league you should get more Vanguard merits than a zone MSR.

 

Regardless, since I am the only person that appears to run them, most people are unaware that it exists.  So forming an impromptu instanced MSR on the weekends takes a while.

 

While I was in the middle of forming an impromptu instanced MSR in Pocket D this afternoon, someone started advertising a zone MSR on the LFG channel.  I sent the person a tell, explaining that I've already been forming a MSR in Pocket D.  He sent me a tell back saying that MSRs are formed in the RWZ, not Pocket D.  After I sent him that tell, he started spamming the LFG channel with his zone MSR advertisements once per minute, effectively trying to drown me out.

 

After several minutes with no new people coming, some people began quitting and went over to the RWZ.  I had to call the raid.

 

I've since sent the person leading the zone MSR tells, trying to explain that there is, in fact, an instanced MSR.  He sent me a reply back, stating again that I was forming the MSR in "the wrong zone."

 

So, as a public service announcement: You can, indeed, form Rikti mothership raids in other zones outside of the RWZ.  It is also in many ways superior to the zone MSR.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Apparition

[ArchVileTerror]

" everyone has to be level 35+, "

 

I think that's the problem right there.

I know -I- appreciate the Mothership Raids where the organizer specifically says "all levels welcome."

[Apparition]

2 minutes ago, ArchVileTerror said:

" everyone has to be level 35+, "

 

I think that's the problem right there.

I know -I- appreciate the Mothership Raids where the organizer specifically says "all levels welcome."

 

That doesn't matter to me.  Before sunset, and from July through September of last year, I always restricted my zone MSRs to level 35+ as it was originally designed.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Apparition

[Cherry]

16 minutes ago, ArchVileTerror said:

" everyone has to be level 35+, "

 

I think that's the problem right there.

I know -I- appreciate the Mothership Raids where the organizer specifically says "all levels welcome."

so basically just so *anyone* can be power leveled. I think it should be restricted like some other zones are... you have to be (insert lvl here) to enter this zone. There is no other reason for any lvl to be there except to be leveled up.. Isnt AE being used for that? 

[ArchVileTerror]

If people are doing Raids to power level, they're doing it really inefficiently. 

The point is accessibility.  To allow friends to play together.  Barriers and level gates are the opposite of that.

[Cobalt Azurean]

7 minutes ago, ArchVileTerror said:

If people are doing Raids to power level, they're doing it really inefficiently. 

The point is accessibility.  To allow friends to play together.  Barriers and level gates are the opposite of that.

Justification veiled behind magnanimity. Bravo.

[Marshman]

11 minutes ago, ArchVileTerror said:

If people are doing Raids to power level, they're doing it really inefficiently. 

The point is accessibility.  To allow friends to play together.  Barriers and level gates are the opposite of that.

So what you're saying is there shouldn't be any level requirements for any content in the game?  I just want to understand the statement.

[Apparition]

I really wasn’t trying to turn this into a “them vs. us” thing.  I just wanted to raise awareness that the instanced MSR exists, someone does in fact regularly run it and has been since it became available, and that it is a perfectly viable way to run the MSR and is not “wrong.”

[ArchVileTerror]

Frankly, yes, Marsh.  I think a "minimum recommended level" would be helpful for new players to know what they're getting themselves in to, but beyond that, I'm all for the removal of barriers.

 

But, also yes, good point Apparition.  The discussion of level-gating should get its own thread.  Thank you for the reminder of the Homecoming Team's additional optional path to Mothership Raids!

[Dahkness]

5 minutes ago, Apparition said:

I really wasn’t trying to turn this into a “them vs. us” thing.  I just wanted to raise awareness that the instanced MSR exists, someone does in fact regularly run it and has been since it became available, and that it is a perfectly viable way to run the MSR and is not “wrong.”

Thanks for this info I was always so confused when I saw pocket D RWZ groups. I just ignored them cause I thought it was a joke that’s been going around as a big dance party. 
 

Thanks for the info! Definitely joining one when I see it next time!

Edited May 24, 2020 by Hops

[Cherry]

18 minutes ago, ArchVileTerror said:

If people are doing Raids to power level, they're doing it really inefficiently. 

The point is accessibility.  To allow friends to play together.  Barriers and level gates are the opposite of that.

well.. thats what its being used for.. typically the leader is blatant about it as well. It always ends in disaster

[Cherry]

2 minutes ago, Hops said:

Thanks for this info I was always so confused when I saw pocket D RWZ groups. I just ignored them cause I thought it was a joke that’s been going around as a big dance party. 
 

Thanks for the info! Definitely joining one when I see it next time!

they are SO MUCH more fun. EVERYONE participates and enjoys it.

[Marshman]

3 minutes ago, ArchVileTerror said:

Frankly, yes, Marsh.  I think a "minimum recommended level" would be helpful for new players to know what they're getting themselves in to, but beyond that, I'm all for the removal of barriers.

 

But, also yes, good point Apparition.  The discussion of level-gating should get its own thread.  Thank you for the reminder of the Homecoming Team's additional optional path to Mothership Raids!

Eh...experienced or non-new players shouldn't have a problem with a 5 minute Vanguard Medal unlock and 35 levels on your character either in my opinion but to each his own.  Society is starting to have such issue with parameters.  It's scary.

[Greycat]

48 minutes ago, Cherry said:

so basically just so *anyone* can be power leveled. I think it should be restricted like some other zones are... you have to be (insert lvl here) to enter this zone. There is no other reason for any lvl to be there except to be leveled up.. Isnt AE being used for that? 

First, no zones are really level restricted. The hazard zones used to be and that was changed well before sunset.

Second, "No other reason?" Nobody can do it because they like it, or are part of a group or SG that was doing other things, saw the raid and said "Lets join that" regardless of level? Nobody can enjoy playing together without having to alt?  Yes, there *are* other reasons. Leveling can be "just" a side effect.

[SuperPlyx]

Also there is occasionally "badge run" MSR that are done instances . Basically they start raid,take down pylons,plant bombs,kill boss...and then everyone quits. This is why I personally have become wary of instanced msr.

[Apparition]

2 minutes ago, SuperPlyx said:

Also there is occasionally "badge run" MSR that are done instances . Basically they start raid,take down pylons,plant bombs,kill boss...and then everyone quits. This is why I personally have become wary of instanced msr.

 

Interesting.  What server?

[Dazl]

I prefer the instanced version myself. I asked a zone MSR leader one time why he didn't do the instance and it was so all levels could join.

[Black Zot]

2 hours ago, Apparition said:

As far as I am concerned, the only legitimate reason to run a zone MSR is the Unabashed badge.  The instanced MSR is superior to the zone MSR in every other way. 

 

This would be a valid assertion if the trial system could be relied on to not scramble teams and not drop a chunk of the raid group on zone-in.  Currently it fulfills neither criterion, despite this being considered basic functionality in any other MMO with a raid-instance mechanic.

 

Until these issues are fixed, I'm sticking to zone MSRs.

[Apparition]

1 minute ago, Black Zot said:

 

This would be a valid assertion if the trial system could be relied on to not scramble teams and not drop a chunk of the raid group on zone-in.  Currently it fulfills neither criterion, despite this being considered basic functionality in any other MMO with a raid-instance mechanic.

 

Until these issues are fixed, I'm sticking to zone MSRs.

 

But that only happens if you lock the league prior to start.  I've run over one hundred instanced MSRs, and that has never happened.

[Coyotedancer]

Eh.

 

I enjoy ship raiding. I really do... And I only bring characters after they're high enough level to have done the intro arc, myself... But raids with lowbies are hardly "always a disaster". As long as you also have a decent number of higher level league members, you'll be fine. Everlasting has 'bring anyone' raids on a regular basis.

 

That said, I'm wary of the instanced version. I've joined several since it was introduced and every time it's had issues with multiple dropped members and completely lost or blown-apart teams... Maybe it's more stable these days. I hope it is. But it REALLY didn't make a great impression. I suspect a lot of us just wrote it off as being more trouble than it was worth as a result. I think I could count on one hand the number of instanced raids I've even seen advertised this year.  

 

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Coyotedancer

[Apparition]

7 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

That said, I'm wary of the instanced version. I've joined several since it was introduced and every time it's had issues with multiple dropped members and completely lost or blown-apart teams... Maybe it's more stable these days. I hope it is. But it REALLY didn't make a great impression. I suspect a lot of us just wrote it off as being more trouble than it was worth as a result. I think I could count on one hand the number of instanced raids I've even seen advertised this year.  

 

Like @Black Zot, that is because the people forming the leagues either don't know how to work around the league bug, or don't care to for whatever reason.

 

Since Homecoming started, leagues can easily be bugged.  It impacts everything... Hamidon raids, zone MSRs, instanced MSRs, and iTrials.  It's just least noticeable on Hamidon raids.  If the league leader directly invites people to the league (not the team, the league), there's a chance that the game will place the player in the league, but not on a team.  The league window will show that player is on a team, but if that player opens up his or her team window, that player will see that he or she is not actually on a team.  There is no way for the league leader to know, unless the person realizes it and informs the league leader.

 

The league bug impacts zone MSRs by dramatically reducing the number of Vanguard merits for some people.  They think they're on a team because the league window shows that they are... but in reality, they are not.  So they're only getting Vanguard merits for the Rikti they have directly attacked.  This happened to me very consistently whenever I joined other people's zone MSRs from May through July of last year.  It lead me to start leading my own MSRs again because the vast majority of MSR leaders on the Excelsior server organized leagues in ways that directly resulted in the league bug.

 

For instanced MSRs and iTrials, the league bug results in, as you have seen, people being dropped from the league and/or whole teams being blown apart upon entering the instance.

 

There are two things you have to do to work around the league bug.  This should be done for both zone MSRs and league MSRs, as well as iTrials.

 

 

1a. Ideally, the league leader should invite team leaders directly to his or her own team first, (invite to the team, not to the league).  Then split them off to separate teams, (one or two for iTrials, two to five for MSRs).  This will result in creating the league.  Then each team leader should directly invite people that want to join to his or her team, (not to the league).

 

1b. The league leader keeps his or her own team small at first... three to five people.  Then the league leader invites people that want to join directly to his or her team, (not to the league).  Once joined, the league leader should move the new league member to the appropriate team.  Only shortly before starting should the league leader fill his or her own team.  This is the method that I use, personally.

 

2. Do NOT lock the league.  On the extreme off chance that, even with step 1a or 1b, someone is impacted by the league bug, this will still allow him or her to zone in to the instance.  Otherwise, if the person is impacted by the league bug and he or she is not actually on a team, he or she will be spat out when the league zones.  (You see this a lot with iTrials.)

 

 

Using this method, I have not once ever had an instanced MSR drop someone upon zoning in, nor "blow up" teams, and I've run multiple instanced MSRs per week since it was added to the game.

 

Now ideally the league bug would be fixed so these two steps wouldn't be needed, but as I said it impacts both zone MSRs and instanced MSRs (as well as iTrials), so there's no real difference there.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Apparition

[Crysis]

18 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

Like @Black Zot, that is because the people forming the leagues either don't know how to work around the league bug, or don't care to for whatever reason.

 

Since Homecoming started, leagues can easily be bugged.  It impacts everything... Hamidon raids, zone MSRs, instanced MSRs, and iTrials.  It's just least noticeable on Hamidon raids.  If the league leader directly invites people to the league (not the team, the league), there's a chance that the game will place the player in the league, but not on a team.  The league window will show that player is on a team, but if that player opens up his or her team window, that player will see that he or she is not actually on a team.  There is no way for the league leader to know, unless the person realizes it and informs the league leader.

 

While I appreciate and respect the amount of detail you’ve provided to address the various instanced MSR events, this in itself more or less explains why most MSR’s are run as zone events.  It’s easier and for the most part foolproof.

 

Bugs need to be addressed.  Workarounds are kinda for the birds.

[Apparition]

7 minutes ago, Crysis said:

While I appreciate and respect the amount of detail you’ve provided to address the various instanced MSR events, this in itself more or less explains why most MSR’s are run as zone events.  It’s easier and for the most part foolproof.

 

Bugs need to be addressed.  Workarounds are kinda for the birds.

But my point is that the league bug also negatively impacts zone MSRs, just in a different and less obvious way.  Most zone MSR leaders and players are entirely unaware of it because most people aren’t paying attention to their team window nor their Vanguard merit count.  For everyone to get the due amount of Vanguard merits, zone MSR leaders should be forming up leagues the exact same way I form them for instanced MSRs.

 

Zone MSRs are only easier, but certainly not foolproof, if they are formed without concern of the league bug and making sure everyone involved gets their due Vanguard merits.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Apparition

[Crysis]

6 minutes ago, Apparition said:

But my point is that the league bug also negatively impacts zone MSRs, just in a different and less obvious way.  Most zone MSR leaders and players are entirely unaware of it because most people aren’t paying attention to their team window nor their Vanguard merit count.  For everyone to get the due amount of Vanguard merits, zone MSR leaders should be forming up leagues the exact same way I form them for instanced MSRs.

 

Zone MSRs are only easier, but certainly not foolproof, if they are formed without concern of the league bug and making sure everyone involved gets their due Vanguard merits.

I understand, and appreciate, your point.  

 

My point is simply that the average player can't be bothered LEADING and ASSEMBLING a league, let alone learning the workarounds to actually form one in a competent manner to avoid the bugs.

 

Just look how long groups of 50's hang around in Ouro "LF iTrial" when, in fact, there's more than enough players in there just idling waiting for someone else to form the league so they can join.

 

BTW, I've participated in some of your instanced MSR's.  I definitely feel the benefit of your leadership and the loss of lag is nice also.

[TinyBolt]

On 5/24/2020 at 12:09 PM, ArchVileTerror said:

" everyone has to be level 35+, "

 

I think that's the problem right there.

I know -I- appreciate the Mothership Raids where the organizer specifically says "all levels welcome."

This!

 

I can think of another benefit of instance RWZ's and that's to keep the zone clear for other content like LGTF, etc. But otherwise Indom has nightly zone MSRs and I've yet to be on a failed one. All levels are welcome, the rule is you can't idle or you're kicked from the league for that run.

 

And the xp is NOT good for the time investment. They're just fun. It's like Hami's if you're 45-49. They're fun and different content but a terrible way to level given the time sink.

Edited May 26, 2020 by TinyBolt