I have a question about Defense.

[JnEricsonx]

Ok, as apparently it goes, getting 45% def to whatever is the golden zone.  My Nin/Nin stalker sits about 45-49 across melee/ranged/aoe, higher on melee when he uses his parry type attack.  But...does that 45% only mean that a even con enemy has only the 5% to hit normally?  What happens when you're fighting +4s?  How much of a drop do you have there, and then you start hoping for team buffs?

[macskull]

An even-con or lower minion will have a 5% chance to hit against any amount of defense 45% or greater. Higher-rank and higher-level enemies get an acc bonus - to figure out their chance to hit if you're at softcap, multiply 5% by the rank and level acc multipliers (example: +4 boss is 5% x 1.4 x 1.3 = 9.1%).

 

Here's the wiki link to the relevant data tables.

[Doomguide2005]

Paragon Wiki "Attack Mechanics" is where to find out a great deal of detail about the subject.

 

Edit:  which Macskull's link just ninja'd me 😁

Edited May 25, 2020 by Doomguide2005

[JnEricsonx]

15 minutes ago, macskull said:

An even-con or lower minion will have a 5% chance to hit against any amount of defense 45% or greater. Higher-rank and higher-level enemies get an acc bonus - to figure out their chance to hit if you're at softcap, multiply 5% by the rank and level acc multipliers (example: +4 boss is 5% x 1.4 x 1.3 = 9.1%).

 

Here's the wiki link to the relevant data tables.

9.1% for a +4 boss.....ok, I'm way overstressing this then.  This is my first defense character since being back, so I have no idea how well my other few defense chars were back in the day.   I think I was more worried/annoyed when  people wanna run +4/8 no matter what.

[Hero_of_Light]

5 minutes ago, JnEricsonx said:

9.1% for a +4 boss.....ok, I'm way overstressing this then.  This is my first defense character since being back, so I have no idea how well my other few defense chars were back in the day.   I think I was more worried/annoyed when  people wanna run +4/8 no matter what.

I haven't tried soloing TFs yet, but so far as a Dual Blades/SR Scrapper I've soloed everything I've come across at +4/8.

 

The only place I've seen DEF focused builds suck is PvP.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Hero_of_Light

[Hyperstrike]

12 hours ago, Hero_of_Light said:

I haven't tried soloing TFs yet, but so far as a Dual Blades/SR Scrapper I've soloed everything I've come across at +4/8.

 

The only place I've seen DEF focused builds suck is PvP.

That's usually because PVP has to jack around with powers and bonuses.

Also, PCs generally have higher levels of +Acc and +ToHit than NPCs.

[Twisted Toon]

14 hours ago, Hero_of_Light said:

I haven't tried soloing TFs yet, but so far as a Dual Blades/SR Scrapper I've soloed everything I've come across at +4/8.

 

The only place I've seen DEF focused builds suck is PvP.

Ancient Romans can tend to mess up a Def focused build, what with the -def they all seem to have.

[Shred Monkey]

15 hours ago, macskull said:

An even-con or lower minion will have a 5% chance to hit against any amount of defense 45% or greater. Higher-rank and higher-level enemies get an acc bonus - to figure out their chance to hit if you're at softcap, multiply 5% by the rank and level acc multipliers (example: +4 boss is 5% x 1.4 x 1.3 = 9.1%).

 

Here's the wiki link to the relevant data tables.

One point of clarification to the OP.   Adding more defense won't lower their chance to hit below that 9.1% floor.   Even at 100% defense they'll still be at 9.1% defense.   This is why 45% is considered the "soft-cap."

 

Now if they have +tohit (which is a different stat then "accuracy"), or if they apply a defense debuff on you, then having over 45% will counter it those effects, but nothing will lower it below the floor. 

 

There aren't a lot of enemies who have +tohit.  It's mostly found in incarnate content and some red-side AVs.

[Troo]

+1

[Sailboat]

18 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

There aren't a lot of enemies who have +tohit.  It's mostly found in incarnate content and some red-side AVs.

One place you will encounter it is Devouring Earth Quartz emanates.  So if you're relying on defense,  whack those things as priority one.

[Bill Z Bubba]

23 hours ago, Twisted Toon said:

Ancient Romans can tend to mess up a Def focused build, what with the -def they all seem to have.

True statement unless you're SR which has 95% DDR. SR users just cruise on through without a care in the world while everyone else is all "why is my defense in the red?!?!?!"

[MTeague]

4 hours ago, Sailboat said:

One place you will encounter it is Devouring Earth Quartz emanates.  So if you're relying on defense,  whack those things as priority one.

ohhhh yea, those are GIANT to-hit buffs for ALL the baddies.  They must practically negate half of your defense I swear. 

If you can't pick them out of hte pile quickly, consider RUNNING.  down the hall and around a corner. THEN rip up the DE when they follow you, then go back and slice up the emanator (badges and all...)

[Hyperstrike]

19 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

True statement unless you're SR which has 95% DDR. SR users just cruise on through without a care in the world while everyone else is all "why is my defense in the red?!?!?!"

With a full group or two around me?

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Mo Durable: Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- RctArm-ResDam:40(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(3), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(3), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(5), GldArm-3defTpProc:50(5), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(7)
Level 1: Jab -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg:50(7), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(9), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(9), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(11), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%:50(11)
Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(13), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(13), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(15), UnbGrd-Max HP%:50(15)
Level 4: Haymaker -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg:50(19), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(21), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(21), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(23), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb:50(23)
Level 6: Dull Pain -- Heal-I:50(A)
Level 8: Resist Elements -- RctArm-ResDam:40(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(25), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(25), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(27)
Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%:50(A)
Level 12: Unyielding -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(27), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(29), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(29)
Level 14: Resist Energies -- RctArm-ResDam:40(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(31), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(31), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(31)
Level 16: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%:50(A)
Level 18: Invincibility -- ShlWal-Def:50(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx:50(33), ShlWal-Def/Rchg:50(33), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), Rct-ResDam%:50(34)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx:50(34), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(34), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(36), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(36), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc:50(36)
Level 22: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(37), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(37), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37)
Level 24: Weave -- ShlWal-Def:50(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx:50(39), ShlWal-Def/Rchg:50(39), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(39)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- ShlWal-Def:50(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx:50(40), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(40)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(42)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- ShlWal-Def:50(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx:50(42), ShlWal-Def/Rchg:50(42), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43)
Level 32: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow:50(A)
Level 35: Hurl -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg:50(43), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(43), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(45), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(45), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc:50(45)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx:50(46), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(46), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(46), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(48), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc:50(48)
Level 41: Spring Attack -- Erd-Acc/Rchg:30(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(48), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(50), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(50), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx:50(50)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- RgnTss-Regen+:30(A)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:50(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(17), Mrc-Rcvry+:40(17)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod:50(19)
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
------------

 

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Not so much...

[SwitchFade]

Also, fear the Nemmie veng!

 

Good info here.

 

I always shoot for 50%+ where possible,

[Riverdusk]

And the Rularuu eyeballs who get +100 tohit.  Some of the Shard TF's can be a pain.