Stalker primary - Best Single Target Damage

[Grymbeard]

Good afternoon;

 

Just trying to determine "mathematically" which stalker primary offers the greatest point per end single target damage. Assuming that you always hit.

[Justisaur]

According to this sheet it's Stj

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19VuZ9zJ_8eKN11JytgaK9mt9Fy-8pjANopb-FGh68Uw/htmlview#

Also fastest DPS against pylons from live.

 

I'd still take it with some salt.

[Alphabet Soup II]

Those #'s don't include Savage Melee. I'd be interested to see where SavM stands on a Rikti comparison, those DoTs really do add a lot of damage and you can get a pretty optimized 4 power attack chain that pops hemorrhage with 4 blood frenzy each time.

[Rokkeb]

They also show nonrealistic conditions such as headsplitters dmg being counted against 16 targets. Even in a fire farm, with a brute swarmed, you won't be hitting 16 targets with that.

[Erydanus]

I'm surprised Psi-Melee rates so low on that sheet. It feels pretty beastly to me. I also can't tell if he's calculating the massive damage increase greater psi blade gets if you have Insight and it turns into Insight Strike.

[Dixa]

Although i take issue with the sheet, the ranking for stalker is in this case correct.

 

highest recorded dps on live against the pylon was 639 dps. that's a dead pylon in under a minute with no lore pets. street justice/sr stalker. highest across ALL at's mind you.

 

the 2nd closest to that time was a crabmind who was able to do about 1:20 i believe wihout lore pets, 30s with lore pets. that was fast enough for that crab mind to drop the mothership shields alone.

 

stalkers are severely underrated and if more people realized they give up NOTHING to scrappers and brutes now (outside of the whole spines/fire farming thing)....

[FUBARczar]

I'm surprised Psi-Melee rates so low on that sheet. It feels pretty beastly to me. I also can't tell if he's calculating the massive damage increase greater psi blade gets if you have Insight and it turns into Insight Strike.

 

There's no way Psi is that low, something is wrong there.  Two good AoEs, and GSB with insight, not happening. 

 

[marcussmythe]

stalkers are severely underrated and if more people realized they give up NOTHING to scrappers and brutes now (outside of the whole spines/fire farming thing)....

 

If true - I have not done comparisons on the resilience side - but if true, Id try real hard to avoid attracting attention.  Or at least placate it.  :)

[Justisaur]

I think he switched from i25 to i24... Last time I looked at it, it had Savage Melee at #1 for AoE, and Psi for #2 ST.  Psi sucks due to being extremely resisted by some mobs, to the point I can't even kill them without help, where ninja blade had no problem.

 

I'd not the listed damages aren't that far off even in this sheet, only a 10% difference between StJ and Psi.

[FUBARczar]

I think he switched from i25 to i24... Last time I looked at it, it had Savage Melee at #1 for AoE, and Psi for #2 ST.  Psi sucks due to being extremely resisted by some mobs, to the point I can't even kill them without help, where ninja blade had no problem.

 

I'd not the listed damages aren't that far off even in this sheet, only a 10% difference between StJ and Psi.

 

How is that, since Psi Melee has a mix of Smash, Lethal and Psionic dmg.  If you are fighting robots ok, TK Blow and Mass Levitate are you only choices, but with Ninja Blade it's only Lethal and then you seem screwed worse than Psionic. 

[Nether]

Although i take issue with the sheet, the ranking for stalker is in this case correct.

 

highest recorded dps on live against the pylon was 639 dps. that's a dead pylon in under a minute with no lore pets. street justice/sr stalker. highest across ALL at's mind you.

 

the 2nd closest to that time was a crabmind who was able to do about 1:20 i believe wihout lore pets, 30s with lore pets. that was fast enough for that crab mind to drop the mothership shields alone.

 

stalkers are severely underrated and if more people realized they give up NOTHING to scrappers and brutes now (outside of the whole spines/fire farming thing)....

 

Call me a noob, but wtf is a crab mind?

[Dixa]

I think he switched from i25 to i24... Last time I looked at it, it had Savage Melee at #1 for AoE, and Psi for #2 ST.  Psi sucks due to being extremely resisted by some mobs, to the point I can't even kill them without help, where ninja blade had no problem.

 

I'd not the listed damages aren't that far off even in this sheet, only a 10% difference between StJ and Psi.

 

nothing was changed between i23 the last build on live to i25 that would have unseated street justice from the top spot. the only change that hosed most people were many io procs going from chance to ppm, including the stalker ato.

[Dixa]

Although i take issue with the sheet, the ranking for stalker is in this case correct.

 

highest recorded dps on live against the pylon was 639 dps. that's a dead pylon in under a minute with no lore pets. street justice/sr stalker. highest across ALL at's mind you.

 

the 2nd closest to that time was a crabmind who was able to do about 1:20 i believe wihout lore pets, 30s with lore pets. that was fast enough for that crab mind to drop the mothership shields alone.

 

stalkers are severely underrated and if more people realized they give up NOTHING to scrappers and brutes now (outside of the whole spines/fire farming thing)....

 

Call me a noob, but wtf is a crab mind?

 

arachnos soldier at that went crab armor, took all the pets and made them perma. it's the most destructive force in the game and the most expensive thing to io out and sucks as all hell to level until you get to that point when not in a group.

 

it's also one of the largest force mutipliers you can add to a group due to all of super high leadership toggles.

[Polecat]

That spreadsheet looks horribly out of date. It's missing at least two sets that I could see (Rad and Savage), and seems to account for details back when t he game was live, not any balance changes the current team have made....

[Zerethon]

 

stalkers are severely underrated and if more people realized they give up NOTHING to scrappers and brutes now (outside of the whole spines/fire farming thing)....

 

On homecoming at least, Stalkers can go Rad/Fire which might as well be stalker SS/Fire, no damage auras but you get burn and something akin to foot stomp and they both can crit.

 

Only 75% Res cap, but you get a goodly amount of healing.

[Microcosm]

 

stalkers are severely underrated and if more people realized they give up NOTHING to scrappers and brutes now (outside of the whole spines/fire farming thing)....

 

On homecoming at least, Stalkers can go Rad/Fire which might as well be stalker SS/Fire, no damage auras but you get burn and something akin to foot stomp and they both can crit.

 

Only 75% Res cap, but you get a goodly amount of healing.

Also missing fiery embrace though if I recall, which pumped up the damage on burn a lot. I was also interested in rad, but it lost the +rech power which was a big part of it's draw to me so I'll stick with scrappers on that I think.

[Marshal_General]

That spreadsheet looks horribly out of date. It's missing at least two sets that I could see (Rad and Savage), and seems to account for details back when t he game was live, not any balance changes the current team have made....

 

He is not using any of the i25 sets.

[Zerethon]

 

stalkers are severely underrated and if more people realized they give up NOTHING to scrappers and brutes now (outside of the whole spines/fire farming thing)....

 

On homecoming at least, Stalkers can go Rad/Fire which might as well be stalker SS/Fire, no damage auras but you get burn and something akin to foot stomp and they both can crit.

 

Only 75% Res cap, but you get a goodly amount of healing.

Also missing fiery embrace though if I recall, which pumped up the damage on burn a lot. I was also interested in rad, but it lost the +rech power which was a big part of it's draw to me so I'll stick with scrappers on that I think.

 

FE is good, But compared to a brute you have no wind-up on damage and can do double damage, compared to a scrapper you get on-demand crits with similar toughness caps but better innate defense

 

Basically in a lot of cases, stalkers trade some utility for pure damage, and in some cases (Shields, etc.) you still get most of it.

 

More commonly though, you lose the damage auras and gain hide. so you have everything else anyways.

[speczero]

According to this sheet it's Stj

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19VuZ9zJ_8eKN11JytgaK9mt9Fy-8pjANopb-FGh68Uw/htmlview#

Also fastest DPS against pylons from live.

 

I'd still take it with some salt.

 

Yeah if I am understanding how he does his calculations(and I may very well not understand) it looks like he is using base damage calculations with max recharge, so he is not including things like buildup in any of his calculations, at least not that I can see, so if every attack just used buildup all things would still be equal, but they don't. Take for example, Energy,  Energy Transference at max recharge would substantially increase Energy dps. There are others in there like this also.

[marcussmythe]

According to this sheet it's Stj

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19VuZ9zJ_8eKN11JytgaK9mt9Fy-8pjANopb-FGh68Uw/htmlview#

Also fastest DPS against pylons from live.

 

I'd still take it with some salt.

 

Yeah if I am understanding how he does his calculations(and I may very well not understand) it looks like he is using base damage calculations with max recharge, so he is not including things like buildup in any of his calculations, at least not that I can see, so if every attack just used buildup all things would still be equal, but they don't. Take for example, Energy,  Energy Transference at max recharge would substantially increase Energy dps. There are others in there like this also.

 

Well, a model that modeled uptimes for various buffs, potential impact of procs, timing on hide/placate and its DPS impact, impact of Momentum in terms of 'momentum-time' vs restarting momentum, all for ideal attack chains at various levels of recharge would be a lovely model to have - but I'm not up to programming it.  That said, his results, even for all that they miss certain things (DM and SS would show much better if DMs near-perma-super-buildup was taken into account, much less stacking rage), the overall results arent badly out of whack with what we already knew.  StJ is awesome for stalkers, TW does crazy things for damage, EM isnt seen much for good reasons, anything with the word 'fire' in it is always a solid choice, etc.

 

I do recall seeing old, live tests for StJ that were just nuts for stalkers, and while I anticipate the change from % Procs to PPM will have reined in that number substantially, Ive seen nothing that says to me that StJ isnt a good choice for pursuing maximum DPS.  Like a lot of 'later' sets, it performs very well on almost every useful metric.

[Erydanus]

I'm surprised Psi-Melee rates so low on that sheet. It feels pretty beastly to me. I also can't tell if he's calculating the massive damage increase greater psi blade gets if you have Insight and it turns into Insight Strike.

 

There's no way Psi is that low, something is wrong there.  Two good AoEs, and GSB with insight, not happening.

One AoE, we lose Psi Blade Sweep for Assassin's Psi Blade. That said, Built-Up Mass Levitate from Hide? Oh and look Build up just reset, thank you ATO. Seriously I was farming Rikti Monkees yesterday and and they were boinging everywhere from me doing that.

[kiLLaBiyte]

So, now that it's October and we've had a few more months to try things out as they "currently" are....what is the new recommendation/winner for Single Target DPS on a Stalker?

 

What's the best secondary to help with that damage? The best Power Pools/Epic/Incarnates/etc...? Has anyone come to more of a conclusion yet?

 

Note: I'm LOVING my StJ/Shield Stalker btw, really solid damage chains that pair very very nicely with Against All Odds damage buff!!

 

 

Thanks!

[nihilii]

No first-hand experience, but I'm guessing StJ/Bio must be pretty far up if not the top dog. /bio in offensive mode really brings the pain with +dam *and* extra toxic damage. Stalkers lose the damage aura and the -res aura, but still, offensive mode alone is beastly.

Power pools beyond Hasten is dealer's choice, epics will likely be soul for Moonbeam - another thing offensive mode helps with, the +tohit coupled with kismet and tactics ensures you get maximum damage out of it. For Incarnates the Musculature Alpha + Ageless Destiny + Assault Hybrid combo is a staple for DPS builds, now that we know procs work best by slotting as little recharge as you can get away with in your enhancements (and grabbing as much global recharge as you can).

StJ/SD cannot be too far behind StJ/Bio in any case, and is likely a much better build for overall content. 🙂

Edited October 3, 2019 by nihilii

[Frostweaver]

Note that common resists and DPS vs DPA are really a thing for stalkers. the 'best damage' Can Vary based on which Supergroup you are fighting, as well as whether you are hitting Pylons, beating +2/8 Freakshow,  Or taking out +4/1 groups of Arachnos.

I mean, StJ is great against small/Medium groups, and has a big single-target crit from hide, but Ice packs a heck of a Wallop and is far less resisted, and Psi can be absolutely disgusting unless you are facing council robots. BS can smash when paired with shield, but NB overtakes it with other combos, and both are amazing at level 30 but fall off sharply at level 50 with more lethal-resistant enemies and late-maturing stalker sets. Electric can pwn groups, but has a little more trouble against a hard target. KM can, with careful attack chains, put out insane DPS, but it's big hitter has follow-up damage rather than a big crit, and with poor management it doesn't do good damage. Savage and staff are in much the same place as KM, but do much better against medium groups. And some sets like dark, staff, and the swords have extra mitigation that allows secondaries to add VASTLY more shine... you cannot do damage when you are faceplanted. And some sets leverage the game-changing ATO's better than others.

Stalkers are not simply about DPS. "Best" is a very difficult, very flexible question for stalkers. and that's WITHOUT adding in the nightmarish complication of how much you can leverage -res, +rech, and other IO procs, which can elevate a mediocre set to a top performer.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Frostweaver

[kiLLaBiyte]

3 hours ago, nihilii said:

No first-hand experience, but I'm guessing StJ/Bio must be pretty far up if not the top dog. /bio in offensive mode really brings the pain with +dam *and* extra toxic damage. Stalkers lose the damage aura and the -res aura, but still, offensive mode alone is beastly.

Power pools beyond Hasten is dealer's choice, epics will likely be soul for Moonbeam - another thing offensive mode helps with, the +tohit coupled with kismet and tactics ensures you get maximum damage out of it. For Incarnates the Musculature Alpha + Ageless Destiny + Assault Hybrid combo is a staple for DPS builds, now that we know procs work best by slotting as little recharge as you can get away with in your enhancements (and grabbing as much global recharge as you can).

StJ/SD cannot be too far behind StJ/Bio in any case, and is likely a much better build for overall content. 🙂

 

Thanks again @nihilii!! I like SD, but Bio does look reeeeally juicy too with it's +damage in the set as well. I think the only place where SD might shine "over" Bio is when I'm surrounded by like 6 or more enemies, as my damage bonus will be greater after Assassin Strike, and ramps up as high as +55% damage if I have 10 enemies around me. The only problem, is in a situation like that survivability without a healer/buffer becomes really risky, at least at my current level fighting +2 missions.

 

The added +55% damage however, with Against All Odds on SD, does make me want to consider rolling an Elec/SD....the AoE carnage sounds like it would be pretty amazing 😄