Stalker primary - Best Single Target Damage

[Gulbasaur]

On 6/7/2019 at 12:39 AM, Rokkeb said:

They also show nonrealistic conditions such as headsplitters dmg being counted against 16 targets. Even in a fire farm, with a brute swarmed, you won't be hitting 16 targets with that.

Honestly, there is so much wrong with that sheet that I'm surprised people are using it. It has methodological issues everywhere and presents a very unrealistic view of things. For example, the peacebringer attack chain seems to be based on repeatedly toggling on and off Bright Nova for zero damage while you spam your weakest attack and consequently peacebringers come dead last in DPS - because two thirds of the powers listed in the attack chain past the first few step are switching on and off a toggle with a timed transformation. 

 

It's not finished and there is so much about it that looks like someone filled it in randomly. 

 

ATOs are applied whether or not the creator liked them or not (scrapper and stalker, no one else, even where they provide a flat or statistically predictable damage boost), which is, again, bad methodology. 

 

The spreadsheet looks like a noble attempt, but enough of it is unfinished or placeholder information that I really don't trust the rest of it. 

Edited October 4, 2019 by Gulbasaur

[Frosticus]

you gotta look at several different factors.

 

DPA of your attack chain

- keep in mind many dpa are listed incorrectly such as rad melee and some attacks have special mechanics that can alter dpa significantly such as rad melee radioactive smash and sti combos

 

Ability to build assassins focus quickly so AS crits as soon as it is recharged

- a set like ice melee would lean heavily on fire epic because outside of freezing touch the st attacks are not very good. That means you largely forgo stacking focus

 

Proc capability

- some sets can get extra purple procs into their chain, extra regular procs beyond the 3 melee ones and even extra -res procs.

 

Before I state my pick you also gotta consider that there are 3 offensive secondaries. IMO both fire and bio give up too much compared to the scrapper version. Although bio is still quite strong for the +tohit and small added +dam and toxic. So I think in practice shield is the most offensive.

 

So weighing all the above that means:

nin/bio, stj/bio and stj/shield 

bio for the +tohit so we can build with no acc and still have musculature.

 

nin and stj both get the pbaoe sets in their chain and Achilles. Nin procs them a bit better. Both have a good dpa chain that builds assassins focus well. Both can take a lot more than the standard 3 melee damage procs so you can get 4-5 procs in each attack.

 

stj has the ultimate AS to crushing uppercut. It is an unbelievable 2 hit combo when AS rehides you. But everyone can AS to moonbeam. Fire epic might add more longterm dps though.

 

 

[kiLLaBiyte]

2 hours ago, Frosticus said:

you gotta look at several different factors.

 

DPA of your attack chain

- keep in mind many dpa are listed incorrectly such as rad melee and some attacks have special mechanics that can alter dpa significantly such as rad melee radioactive smash and sti combos

 

Ability to build assassins focus quickly so AS crits as soon as it is recharged

- a set like ice melee would lean heavily on fire epic because outside of freezing touch the st attacks are not very good. That means you largely forgo stacking focus

 

Proc capability

- some sets can get extra purple procs into their chain, extra regular procs beyond the 3 melee ones and even extra -res procs.

 

Before I state my pick you also gotta consider that there are 3 offensive secondaries. IMO both fire and bio give up too much compared to the scrapper version. Although bio is still quite strong for the +tohit and small added +dam and toxic. So I think in practice shield is the most offensive.

 

So weighing all the above that means:

nin/bio, stj/bio and stj/shield 

bio for the +tohit so we can build with no acc and still have musculature.

 

nin and stj both get the pbaoe sets in their chain and Achilles. Nin procs them a bit better. Both have a good dpa chain that builds assassins focus well. Both can take a lot more than the standard 3 melee damage procs so you can get 4-5 procs in each attack.

 

stj has the ultimate AS to crushing uppercut. It is an unbelievable 2 hit combo when AS rehides you. But everyone can AS to moonbeam. Fire epic might add more longterm dps though.

 

 

I agree with what you've said here. I'm really loving my StJ/SD Stalker right now. His damage is solid with the chains provided and Against All Odds +damage bonus is just the cherry on top 🙂 I've been leveling him up too, and he's been great in teams. I don't think I've seen anyone compare to my Single Target Damage on tough targets. 

[Colder]

On 10/3/2019 at 11:23 AM, kiLLaBiyte said:

 

Thanks again @nihilii!! I like SD, but Bio does look reeeeally juicy too with it's +damage in the set as well. I think the only place where SD might shine "over" Bio is when I'm surrounded by like 6 or more enemies, as my damage bonus will be greater after Assassin Strike, and ramps up as high as +55% damage if I have 10 enemies around me. The only problem, is in a situation like that survivability without a healer/buffer becomes really risky, at least at my current level fighting +2 missions.

 

The added +55% damage however, with Against All Odds on SD, does make me want to consider rolling an Elec/SD....the AoE carnage sounds like it would be pretty amazing 😄

I run Savage/Rad for my AoE powerhouse. I've gotten his melee def over softcap and he's very viable. I use the tier 8 rad power as another AoE, and it does well with it's 30 cap maximum and moderate dmg with moderate AoE dmg as well. With savages extreme amount of AoE it all falls down. The dmg bonus to meltdown is nice too, 33% I believe

[Call Me Awesome]

It likely falls back in ST, but for AOE my Elec/SD stalker is a beast.  Lightning Rod/Shield Charge/Fire Ball/Thunder Strike and everything but a resistant boss is dead and he's gonna be gone once AS lands.

[FUBARczar]

On 10/30/2019 at 11:46 PM, Call Me Awesome said:

It likely falls back in ST, but for AOE my Elec/SD stalker is a beast.  Lightning Rod/Shield Charge/Fire Ball/Thunder Strike and everything but a resistant boss is dead and he's gonna be gone once AS lands.

that's b/c they died of old age waiting for thunderstrike to finish the animation

 

But seriously that sheet is way off about Psi melee there's nothing that moves an AV's health bar like Hide+BU+AS+Hide+Insight+Greater Psi Blade.  And TK Blow is a very strong ST attack, one of the best from any set, any tier. 

[Call Me Awesome]

On 11/1/2019 at 4:19 PM, FUBARczar said:

that's b/c they died of old age waiting for thunderstrike to finish the animation

 

But seriously that sheet is way off about Psi melee there's nothing that moves an AV's health bar like Hide+BU+AS+Hide+Insight+Greater Psi Blade.  And TK Blow is a very strong ST attack, one of the best from any set, any tier. 

Yeah, that's my one gripe with the set.  Well, that and that Jacob's Ladder is only technically an AOE and has an even longer animation... I dumped it on my last respec and just tossed a few slots into Boxing for when I needed a filler attack while running lower level content.

[FUBARczar]

another thing, about Psi melee, I had my Psi/Bio out for a stroll and was two-shotting War Walker bosses on Lambda, Psi is not that bad against robots. 

[Shred Monkey]

I hadn't really looked at the Street Justice set, before.   Now that I have, I think this set was intentionally designed to fully leverage all the tricks and options of a maximally enhanced full incarnate stalker.   Plus it looks cool.   I started my StJ/Bio stalker last night.

[Haijinx]

7 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

I hadn't really looked at the Street Justice set, before.   Now that I have, I think this set was intentionally designed to fully leverage all the tricks and options of a maximally enhanced full incarnate stalker.   Plus it looks cool.   I started my StJ/Bio stalker last night.

My current project is STJ/EA and its definitely working out.

[Call Me Awesome]

14 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

I hadn't really looked at the Street Justice set, before.   Now that I have, I think this set was intentionally designed to fully leverage all the tricks and options of a maximally enhanced full incarnate stalker.   Plus it looks cool.   I started my StJ/Bio stalker last night.

I haven't tried it on a Stalker but it was loads of fun on a Scrapper, I had a lot of fun with my StJ/Invuln scrapper on Live.  There's just something that makes you grin about kicking the bad guy in the balls.

[Haijinx]

3 hours ago, Call Me Awesome said:

I haven't tried it on a Stalker but it was loads of fun on a Scrapper, I had a lot of fun with my StJ/Invuln scrapper on Live.  There's just something that makes you grin about kicking the bad guy in the balls.

unfortunately Rib Cracker isn't in the Stalker version, lol

 

I'd like to start a petition to use it as an Alt animation for the Assassin's Blow, though! 

[Call Me Awesome]

13 hours ago, Haijinx said:

unfortunately Rib Cracker isn't in the Stalker version, lol

 

I'd like to start a petition to use it as an Alt animation for the Assassin's Blow, though! 

Ah heck, guess if I roll another it'll be a Scrapper then.

[kiLLaBiyte]

Okay, old thread, but some solid discussion (and reveals) was happening here, so here it is again...

 

So, would the general consensus be that either Shield Defense or Bio are the best Stalker armor sets for damage.

 

- With Shield being better for dealing with "groups" of enemies after your initial Shield Charge and strike when AAO can kick in for clean up.

 

- And Bio being better at harder single targets by giving a flat +25%(?) boost to damage for your alphas, that doesn't require mobs other than the one you're attacking. Not to mention the -regen advantage for EBs/AND.

 

Then for Primaries, it sounds like...

 

- Street Justice and Psi for single target smashing (with maybe Street Justice being slllllightly better overall in the PvE endgame if you're taking full advantage of the combo system).

 

Would these assessments/conclusions from this thread be right?

 

How would Radiation Melee or Dark Melee compare or fare against Psi or Street Justice if paired with any of those two armor sets? I know DM adds some utility, but also has a lesser resisted "void" damage type, and Rad Melee has some pretty solid heavy hitters from what I can see...

 

And, with the recent Energy Melee changes since i27, is it a contender again in Single Target Damage?

 

Gosh...all these thoughts!!! 🥴 Haha it's like the 'good old' days again!! 😅😊 I love it!!

Edited February 19, 2021 by kiLLaBiyte

[Shred Monkey]

On 2/19/2021 at 11:12 AM, kiLLaBiyte said:

And, with the recent Energy Melee changes since i27, is it a contender again in Single Target Damage?

Yes... it is.

[Captain_Paragon]

On 2/20/2021 at 6:12 AM, kiLLaBiyte said:

And, with the recent Energy Melee changes since i27, is it a contender again in Single Target Damage?

It isn't a contender it's king. My EM/Bio scrapper hits like a freight train. He AoE leaves a lot to be desired. But he was built to be a ST monster so it doesn't bother me. 

 

Stalker wise I'm currently lvling a nin/invun and should have capped S/L def and 40% (ish) to the rest. With capped S/L dam resist. Also with -res procs and 3 AS combo builder its a beast at building AS Lvl3 AS - GD - SD - SoW then AS - MB. Then start again. It isn't the hardest hitter but its seriously quick. 

[kiLLaBiyte]

18 minutes ago, Captain_Paragon said:

It isn't a contender it's king. My EM/Bio scrapper hits like a freight train. He AoE leaves a lot to be desired. But he was built to be a ST monster so it doesn't bother me. 

 

Stalker wise I'm currently lvling a nin/invun and should have capped S/L def and 40% (ish) to the rest. With capped S/L dam resist. Also with -res procs and 3 AS combo builder its a beast at building AS Lvl3 AS - GD - SD - SoW then AS - MB. Then start again. It isn't the hardest hitter but its seriously quick. 

 

Wow!! Is it hitting that hard due to the recent updates and changes or was it always?? I thought I recalled people saying that "previously" it was neutered in Single Target Damage thanks to it's long animation times and lowered output. 

 

Was that resolved? Is it actually better than Psi Melee now?

 

My absolute favorite toons on Live were EM's and DM's. I miss my lvl 50 EM Stalkers tremendously. Do you think he's worth re-rolling here, for PvE and PvP?

Edited February 23, 2021 by kiLLaBiyte

[Captain_Paragon]

12 minutes ago, kiLLaBiyte said:

 

Wow!! Is it hitting that hard due to the recent updates and changes or was it always?? I thought I recalled people saying that "previously" it was neutered in Single Target Damage thanks to it's long animation times and lowered output. 

 

Was that resolved? Is it actually better than Psi Melee now?

 

My absolute favorite toons on Live were EM's and DM's. I miss my lvl 50 EM Stalkers tremendously. Do you think he's worth re-rolling here, for PvE and PvP?

Most definitely. EM is the ST King again. Speaking as using from scrapper. Total focus builds focus (something like that) then energy transfer has its old animation so a 1second animation or in that region. If you use ET outside of focus it does its 3 or 4 second animation so its like a mini combo system but nowhere near as annoying as some of the others. *looks at titan weapons*  

 

My EM/BIO scrapper is built to solo GMs and that he does very easily. When teaming it makes me laugh still if an AV/GM has a little chunk of health left and i use TF which procs scrappers ATO for next hit which auto crits then i hit ET and just kills them. There is so much damage its awesome! 

 

I would re-roll not sure on PvP but PvE its alot of fun!

[Bopper]

With enough recharge you can certainly chain some devastating attacks with EM. I use a chain of TF(hide)>ET(fast)>AS(fast)>Quick Snipe>ET(fast)>EP>AS(fast)

 

You could replace Snipe with Bone Smasher to improve your crit chance on AS, it's personal preference to use the Snipe as it becomes 2.3 damage scale when used with Buildup and it makes for great DPA.

 

Factoring in crit chance, that chain does:

4.56+5.016+4.6+2.53+5.016+1.276+4.324= 27.322 scale damage in a little over 10s. The only thing EM lacks is debuffing opportunities. Power Crash is great AoE amd can take the FotG proc, but I dont think one would want to use it in a ST attack chain, but I'll look into that tonight.

[kiLLaBiyte]

6 minutes ago, Bopper said:

With enough recharge you can certainly chain some devastating attacks with EM. I use a chain of TF(hide)>ET(fast)>AS(fast)>Quick Snipe>ET(fast)>EP>AS(fast)

 

You could replace Snipe with Bone Smasher to improve your crit chance on AS, it's personal preference to use the Snipe as it becomes 2.3 damage scale when used with Buildup and it makes for great DPA.

 

Factoring in crit chance, that chain does:

4.56+5.016+4.6+2.53+5.016+1.276+4.324= 27.322 scale damage in a little over 10s. The only thing EM lacks is debuffing opportunities. Power Crash is great AoE amd can take the FotG proc, but I dont think one would want to use it in a ST attack chain, but I'll look into that tonight.

Wow! Awesome chain! Thanks man. I'm looking forward to your tests with Power Crash!

[Croax]

11 hours ago, Bopper said:

Power Crash is great AoE amd can take the FotG proc, but I dont think one would want to use it in a ST attack chain, but I'll look into that tonight.

You never would want to use it in an attack chain because it eats up your EF stack. EF stacks are best used in fast ET in single target situations.

[Bopper]

4 minutes ago, Croax said:

You never would want to use it in an attack chain because it eats up your EF stack. EF stacks are best used in fast ET in single target situations.

Not if you use two ETs before you use PC again. You can do something like this as a starting rotation:

PC(hide)> AS(fast/proc hide)> TF(hide)> ET(fast)> AS(fast) > Zapp > ET(fast) 

 

The rotation is right about 10s between the end and restart of AS(fast/proc hide). This lines up well for the Hide proc lockout. It's not the best burst, but you can achieve great sustain. Turn Power Crash into a proc bomb, get a 71% chance to proc FotG, and the remaining 10s will average 14% more damage. I compared the numbers to my other ST rotations, and the use of the proc helped increase the DPS by another 5%.

[kiLLaBiyte]

20 hours ago, Bopper said:

Not if you use two ETs before you use PC again. You can do something like this as a starting rotation:

PC(hide)> AS(fast/proc hide)> TF(hide)> ET(fast)> AS(fast) > Zapp > ET(fast) 

 

The rotation is right about 10s between the end and restart of AS(fast/proc hide). This lines up well for the Hide proc lockout. It's not the best burst, but you can achieve great sustain. Turn Power Crash into a proc bomb, get a 71% chance to proc FotG, and the remaining 10s will average 14% more damage. I compared the numbers to my other ST rotations, and the use of the proc helped increase the DPS by another 5%.

Quick question, because I'm definitely going to build a new EM, should I take Barrage or Energy Punch for my starter attack?

[Bopper]

2 hours ago, kiLLaBiyte said:

Quick question, because I'm definitely going to build a new EM, should I take Barrage or Energy Punch for my starter attack?

Personally I find the attack's DPA too low. There might be situations where you could leverage the regen debuff, but it usually is not worth the loss of a Fast ET. I have always skipped the power.

[kiLLaBiyte]

2 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Personally I find the attack's DPA too low. There might be situations where you could leverage the regen debuff, but it usually is not worth the loss of a Fast ET. I have always skipped the power.

Oh, gotcha. So basically, take either one but don't worry about them too much as they will be phased put/not really used in the final builds?