Talks with NCSoft take over a year?

[Ironblade]

58 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

There was later a program that would read a Sentinel+ character save and dump all of its costume sections as .costume files that could be loaded back into the game, although with some errors that required correcting.

For anyone interested, the link to extract costume files from a Sentinel xml file is:  https://cit.cohtitan.com/senticon/

[Omega-202]

1 hour ago, golstat2003 said:

And how exactly do we know it's a trivial deal? We don't even know what HC is actually asking for. (I'm talking about the contract specifics).

If they can't come to terms at this point, and there isn't some external factor, then it's unlikely they will be able to hash things out.  

 

I've seen $250 mil pharma aquisitions get completed in 3-6 months, without issue.  I've seen big companies license out entire therapeutic divisions worth of IP in 6 weeks, complete with full portfolio due diligence.  By comparison, carrying out diligence and hashing out a license on a dead asset like CoH shouldn't take this long.  In the grand scheme it is trivial.  

[Ironblade]

50 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

If they can't come to terms at this point, and there isn't some external factor, then it's unlikely they will be able to hash things out.

As I pointed out, they SAID there is an external factor.  I'll quote it again.
"What we can say is that setting this up as a non-profit is complicated, if it's even going to be possible at all. There's no precedent for what we're doing here, so we (and the attorneys we're working with) are kinda going to be writing the book on it."

[Omega-202]

1 hour ago, Ironblade said:

As I pointed out, they SAID there is an external factor.  I'll quote it again.
"What we can say is that setting this up as a non-profit is complicated, if it's even going to be possible at all. There's no precedent for what we're doing here, so we (and the attorneys we're working with) are kinda going to be writing the book on it."

Excuse me if I don't have much confidence in this team setting future precedent for a new category of non profit.  Without legislation, they're not going to be rewriting any books that suddenly make them qualify.  And based on their publicly disclosed legal costs, they're not working with the caliber of legal teams that would be writing the books on anything.  Their legal budgets wouldn't be enough for an hour at my billing rate and wouldn't get you 10 minutes of my supervising partner's time.  

 

So again, I don't think any of this is a good sign.  

[golstat2003]

2 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

If they can't come to terms at this point, and there isn't some external factor, then it's unlikely they will be able to hash things out.  

 

I've seen $250 mil pharma aquisitions get completed in 3-6 months, without issue.  I've seen big companies license out entire therapeutic divisions worth of IP in 6 weeks, complete with full portfolio due diligence.  By comparison, carrying out diligence and hashing out a license on a dead asset like CoH shouldn't take this long.  In the grand scheme it is trivial.  

It can take this long if one of the parties aren't in any kind of rush whatsoever. NCSoft has nothing to gain or lose, so they are in no rush whatsoever.

[golstat2003]

1 minute ago, Omega-202 said:

Excuse me if I don't have much confidence in this team setting future precedent for a new category of non profit.  Without legislation, they're not going to be rewriting any books that suddenly make them qualify.  And based on their publicly disclosed legal costs, they're not working with the caliber of legal teams that would be writing the books on anything.  Their legal budgets wouldn't be enough for an hour at my billing rate and wouldn't get you 10 minutes of my supervising partner's time.  

 

So again, I don't think any of this is a good sign.  

/shrug. Let's wait and see. I'm personally not in any rush. We get to play the game. That's all that matters to me.

[Omega-202]

Just now, golstat2003 said:

NCSoft has nothing to gain

Yeah.  So why does anyone think a deal will ever be struck?

[golstat2003]

1 minute ago, Omega-202 said:

Yeah.  So why does anyone think a deal will ever be struck?

We don't. We're hopeful one will. But no one expects anything to happen or not happen.

 

We just here waiting and seeing and enjoying the game while it's here.

 

/shrug.

 

EDIT: I'm sure other players feel this way. If a deal is struck, great. If not . . . there are other servers out there.

I came into this with my eyes open that this could all go away at any time. I don't have any expectations except that I'll be able to enjoy the game as long HC is here. 

 

Which I am.

Edited December 8, 2020 by golstat2003

[Ironblade]

1 minute ago, Omega-202 said:

Yeah.  So why does anyone think a deal will ever be struck?

Bad PR.  They got plenty of that after shutting down the game.

[Omega-202]

15 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

Bad PR.  They got plenty of that after shutting down the game.

May 2012 when CoH closed, NCSoft's stock price was 233,500 KRW / $215 in today's USD.

 

Today, NCSoft's stock price is 867,000 KRW / $800 in today's USD.  With a market cap of about $17 billion.  

 

Yeah, they really suffered from the bad publicity.  They totally need this deal.  /s

[Abraxus]

18 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

Yeah.  So why does anyone think a deal will ever be struck?

Because getting something for nothing, is ultimately better than getting nothing for nothing.  That's a basic enough reason for any business, so long as they can distance themselves far enough to save face.  That's probably where the difficulties lie.  But, I restate that everything said in this thread is conjecture.  The only fact we have is that there were talks going on.  But, in the vacuum of solid information, it is easily filled with everything said about it (good, and bad) for the past 17 months.

[Omega-202]

3 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

Because getting something for nothing, is ultimately better than getting nothing for nothing.  That's a basic enough reason for any business, so long as they can distance themselves far enough to save face.  That's probably where the difficulties lie.  But, I restate that everything said in this thread is conjecture.  The only fact we have is that there were talks going on.  But, in the vacuum of solid information, it is easily filled with everything said about it (good, and bad) for the past 17 months.

If someone offered you pennies for an old car you had but didn't use (one that technically still runs and could be refurbished if you ever needed it), would you take that offer?  

 

Anything NCSoft had to gain would be less than pocket change to them.  In just the last quarter, they had over half a BILLION in revenue.  What could the HC team offer to even make it worth their consideration?  

 

This isn't speculation, its just realism.  

[Ironblade]

5 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

This isn't speculation, its just realism.  

Oh, please!  Your posts are loaded with speculation.  You have no inside knowledge and are drawing conclusions based on your own experiences which may, or may not, be somewhat applicable.

[CrudeVileTerror]

I think @Omega-202's professional perspective is informative, whether it's speculative or not.

 

Though I will say it's a bit of an apples and oranges situation, even if ncsoft is absolutely loaded these days.

A number of suits for various game publisher companies have been known to do some particularly ass-backward decision-making in my experience.  While I've never worked for ncsoft, nor do I have any specific or personal insight in to their company, its culture, or their processes . . . I would not be surprised to hear that somebody's feelings of pride were on the line, and they may be stalling the process.

*shrugs*

I've seen dumber reasons to botch deals.

[Omega-202]

13 minutes ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

I think @Omega-202's professional perspective is informative, whether it's speculative or not.

 

Though I will say it's a bit of an apples and oranges situation, even if ncsoft is absolutely loaded these days.

A number of suits for various game publisher companies have been known to do some particularly ass-backward decision-making in my experience.  While I've never worked for ncsoft, nor do I have any specific or personal insight in to their company, its culture, or their processes . . . I would not be surprised to hear that somebody's feelings of pride were on the line, and they may be stalling the process.

*shrugs*

I've seen dumber reasons to botch deals.

In this situation, the ass backwards thing would be to strike a licensing deal with HC.  They stand to gain basically nothing, while also tying their IP to an amateur entity that could cause them a number of issues.  

 

I'll leave it there though because Ironblade doesn't want discussion to happen on a forum.  If its not concrete facts, we're all supposed to shut up and defer to their optimistic outlook based in fantasy land.  

[Abraxus]

1 hour ago, Omega-202 said:

If someone offered you pennies for an old car you had but didn't use (one that technically still runs and could be refurbished if you ever needed it), would you take that offer?  

 

Anything NCSoft had to gain would be less than pocket change to them.  In just the last quarter, they had over half a BILLION in revenue.  What could the HC team offer to even make it worth their consideration?  

 

This isn't speculation, its just realism.  

NCSoft doesn't care about the money.  Like you said, there is no amount this group could ever present that would matter that much to them.  No...for them, it's all about their reputation.  They threw CoH away, and somebody got it out of the trash can, and made something of it.  You can't put the genie back in the bottle, so what are you left with?  How best to spin it.  That is what they are left with.  But, that kind of a deal is a lot harder to reach, than anything concerning the almighty dollar.  That too is sheer speculation, but it makes sense given what little we know.

[Coyotedancer]

Total pipe dream or lingering hope, there's not a thing any of us can do about it in either case... So what's the point of harping on it? Just play the game and enjoy it.

[Budo]

7 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

Total pipe dream or lingering hope, there's not a thing any of us can do about it in either case... So what's the point of harping on it? Just play the game and enjoy it.

THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS THREAD IS FOR!

 

We must yell about what may happen and yell at other people for knowing things that we know are not true and then tell them that they are stupid, because clearly we are smarter because we are lawyers, or are married to lawyers or saw a lawyer on TV we spelled the word lawyer on a Scrabble game once.

 

Duh. 

[Hyperstrike]

5 hours ago, Nerio72 said:

Well it took some people 5 1/2 months to respond to this post,so...

 

 

...seems legit.

You overestimate the amount of free time available to some.
Also, if I miss the thread in "unread posts", chances that I ever see it are slim.

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

If someone offered you pennies for an old car you had but didn't use (one that technically still runs and could be refurbished if you ever needed it), would you take that offer?  

 

Anything NCSoft had to gain would be less than pocket change to them.  In just the last quarter, they had over half a BILLION in revenue.  What could the HC team offer to even make it worth their consideration?  

 

This isn't speculation, its just realism.  

Also, consider that, during the first negotiations, NCSoft was demanding money in the high 8 digit range, plus a boatload of unsupportable legal concessions.
(Was part of the group involved in this.)

I agree.  NCSoft really has nothing to gain from any sort of agreement the various communities could strike.  Even in unison.

(Well, unless some of you are secretly billionaires who wipe your butts with Ten-Thousand Dollar bills.)
(If so, then come talk to me with a couple bags of your bathroom leavings.)

[Nerio72]

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

You overestimate the amount of free time available to some.
Also, if I miss the thread in "unread posts", chances that I ever see it are slim.

Actually I made a joke in a necro thread, I thought some levity was needed. Seems I was right.😉

[Luminara]

7 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

I've seen $250 mil pharma aquisitions get completed in 3-6 months, without issue.

 

Homecoming isn't big money.  They don't have an on-staff legal team.  They don't have hundreds of thousands, or millions, of dollars to throw at legal negotiations, filings and procedures.  Legal matters are not going to move with the same speed or efficiency with the tiny budget they have.

[Snarky]

5 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Also, consider that, during the first negotiations, NCSoft was demanding money in the high 8 digit range, plus a boatload of unsupportable legal concessions.
(Was part of the group involved in this.)

I agree.  NCSoft really has nothing to gain from any sort of agreement the various communities could strike.  Even in unison.

(Well, unless some of you are secretly billionaires who wipe your butts with Ten-Thousand Dollar bills.)
(If so, then come talk to me with a couple bags of your bathroom leavings.)

You better make sure you launder that money!

[Hyperstrike]

6 minutes ago, Snarky said:

You better make sure you launder that money!

How do I get the ink so even?

An extra 15 minutes in the dryer.

[Omega-202]

3 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

Homecoming isn't big money.  They don't have an on-staff legal team.  They don't have hundreds of thousands, or millions, of dollars to throw at legal negotiations, filings and procedures.  Legal matters are not going to move with the same speed or efficiency with the tiny budget they have.

So then why does anyone believe that any deal would ever happen?  These kinds of deals don't happen based on hopes and dreams.  

 

If NCSoft wanted high 8-figures for the rights to the IP in the past, what makes you think that a deal will ever be struck when you and others admit that the budget is miniscule?