GM Sparkey's chat moderation

[Archanarchist]

im just starting this thread to air a moderation issue that i encountered in game
im not sure if this is the exact forum, since im usually just commenting on threads, never had a reason to make a complaint before

last night i was chatting in general with some randoms about various things macros and such when someone brought up some court ruling in america regarding trump and his taxes or something and i chimed in after a min (as i usually do :P) with the fact that the president is immune to prosecution/court order unless impeached (a basic point of law in a presidential system) i then said i wouldn't be adding any more because someone was complaining it was politics (lol only in america) then about 2 mins later i went to go post to join a team that was advertising for more and it said i had a chat ban then sparkey poped up in general and said he was chat banning people for talking about politics so i had a short complain on a alt account and went to bed

so then i log in today and get reminded of chat ban so i jump on alt account and air fact i cant join teams atm because im chat banned for pointing out the president isnt bound by court orders someone tells me to go tell alex jones (like a right wing conspiracy site is the arbitrator of the structure of Americas judicial system) and then bam i get chat banned again before i  can even respond and then gm sparkey pops up in chat saying that complaining about being chat banned is a controversial subject and anyone commenting on it after his post will be banned, but i had already been banned again with no warning

long story short is now someone who continually forms and joins teams and who responds to every help request im capable of (which is at least every second one) when im on is chat banned for a day because of a GM with a itchy ban finger.

been playing for about a year now on server since game re released and ive never had issues like this before 
in fact ive never had issues like this before except in some private channels and chat rooms
really hope this isnt a sign of things to come 

[Greycat]

You should be reaching out to the GMs here in PMs if there's an issue, generally.

[Mezmera]

There's a civilized way to talk about hot topics and a belligerent way, with the latter if you are warned to cool it then I'd advise doing so.  If it's to continue then you risk a timeout at your own peril.  I'm glad they didn't outright ban your IP but I saw your chat in game today and you are itching for one.  

 

Again take your timeout with some dignity and hopefully you get to play tomorrow.  

[Xanatos]

Actually lol'd at the part when you were surprised you got banned a second time for doing the same thing you did the first time. Amazing.

 

The point of this game is escapism and community. Conversations about real-world politics are obviously anti-escapist, and are also anti-community building. (In that the current political climate is so divisive, any mention of it will cause people to take sides against one another.)

 

Golden rule of having fun on the internet - don't talk politics or religion.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Xanatos

[MTeague]

A twenty four hour ban is over soon enough.  

 

If you truly feel it was completely unjust, unmerited, and an overreaction, well, put yourself in the shoes of the GM's for a bit.  It's probably not the most fun job in the world, and I know for certain I've seen people doing what looked an awful lot like trying to push the bounds and see juuuuuuust how much they could get away with, to try to push someone else's buttons.  Maybe it was wrong place / wrong time.  And maybe not. 

 

Take it for what it is. Try to avoid certain topics of discussion in the future.  Yes, you may firmly enjoy speaking your own mind on any topic you please, but at the end of the day, the Homecoming servers are not a public facility, and there is no guaranteed right of free speech on any topic. We are all essentially, guests.  If I am a guest, and host makes it quite clear I should avoid certain topics and I keep going back into them, well, why should I not expect the host to become displeased, and to perhaps show me the door?

 

[srmalloy]

52 minutes ago, MTeague said:

Try to avoid certain topics of discussion in the future.

That can be difficult to do when the interpretation by a GM of what you say is both hidden and, in some cases, dubious. I was waiting for a Hami raid to finish assembling on the 4th, and general chat went off onto politics. GM Sparky popped up announcing that anyone continuing with politics in general would be banned for 24 hours. Subsequent to this, in response to someone else's comment about celebrating the day, I made a comment that we're celebrating two days late, because Congress voted for independence on the 2nd of July, not the 4th... and got hit with a ban. For stating a more than 200-year-old historical fact. In retrospect, if I'd used 'Continental Congress' instead of just 'Congress', what I suppose was a knee-jerk "see 'Congress' in general chat, which automatically makes it political, because there's too much in channel to actually read what was said" response might have been avoided.

 

I wound up submitting a petition over the ban, though. Not over the circumstances of the ban, but because of an associated misfeature -- as the Hami league was updated with characters joining, leaving, and being moved around, every single message about a change to the league (i.e., "XXX has joined the league", 'quit the team', etc.) was treated by the game as if it was something I had tried to say, so I was being spammed by "You have been banned from global chat for 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 47 seconds" messages with a 'ding' notification sound every couple of seconds. I wasn't invested enough in trying to rub a GM's nose in having inappropriately banning me, but having to put up with being spammed both visually and audibly because the game treated system messages as being an attempt to say something on a banned channel was too much.

Edited July 10, 2020 by srmalloy

[Razor Cure]

What if you used congress as in..the congress between two consenting adults? Would that get a ban? I

[Fortuneteller]

I find it curious how you can get a chat ban for chatting about political things like Trump. Yet the devs themselves make a MOTD to support BLM, whos founder admits to being a far left political movement. Seems like a bit of a double standard.

Of course given that i don't actually know what you said in chat i'll have to give the GM benefit of doubt. /shrug

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

There is a quaint song by an ol american country singer me thinks is applicable here.

 

" Oh you got to know when to hold them."

"Know when to fold them"

"Know when to walk away"

" Know when to run!"

 

Have the good sense lad or lass and take yer medicine. And if you are going to try and argue against a injustice be sure to do so with deference and civility.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

2 hours ago, Fortuneteller said:

I find it curious how you can get a chat ban for chatting about political things like Trump. Yet the devs themselves make a MOTD to support BLM, whos founder admits to being a far left political movement. Seems like a bit of a double standard.

Of course given that i don't actually know what you said in chat i'll have to give the GM benefit of doubt. /shrug

They gave us a thread and let us go 10 pages talking about that subject. We had our chance to vent, and there was actually a pretty decent conversation in that thread, but ofcourse some folks had to throw a temper tantrum in the thread to force its closing.

 

I will say that at this point its people trying to stir the pot no matter which side they may lean on.

 

Come on guys you could even keep it couched in role play like some of the really bad actors do, that at least  makes it tolerable to encounter to some extent. I mean hey if someone wants to role play as a fascist we have at least a couple in game villain factions they can RP being a member of and most of everlasting ime would suffer it in the spirit of RP.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

3 hours ago, srmalloy said:

That can be difficult to do when the interpretation by a GM of what you say is both hidden and, in some cases, dubious. I was waiting for a Hami raid to finish assembling on the 4th, and general chat went off onto politics. GM Sparky popped up announcing that anyone continuing with politics in general would be banned for 24 hours. Subsequent to this, in response to someone else's comment about celebrating the day, I made a comment that we're celebrating two days late, because Congress voted for independence on the 2nd of July, not the 4th... and got hit with a ban. For stating a more than 200-year-old historical fact. In retrospect, if I'd used 'Continental Congress' instead of just 'Congress', what I suppose was a knee-jerk "see 'Congress' in general chat, which automatically makes it political, because there's too much in channel to actually read what was said" response might have been avoided.

 

I wound up submitting a petition over the ban, though. Not over the circumstances of the ban, but because of an associated misfeature -- as the Hami league was updated with characters joining, leaving, and being moved around, every single message about a change to the league (i.e., "XXX has joined the league", 'quit the team', etc.) was treated by the game as if it was something I had tried to say, so I was being spammed by "You have been banned from global chat for 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 47 seconds" messages with a 'ding' notification sound every couple of seconds. I wasn't invested enough in trying to rub a GM's nose in having inappropriately banning me, but having to put up with being spammed both visually and audibly because the game treated system messages as being an attempt to say something on a banned channel was too much.

Back on live my one and only chat ban came about for simply discussing the previous nights freshly aired episode of Southpark. When someone asked so what terrible crap did Cartman do this week, I had simply responded by describing cartmans actions on the episode, and repeated some of the terrible jokes he had made. Id even prefaced my posts by saying, " this is what cartman said/did" yet I ended up with a 3 day chat ban, and while it did chafe me a bit, I also understood that no matter it being me just repeating something Id seen and describing things, it still was me saying rude and crude things in open chat.

 

When in open chat, one should always keep it as clean as one would around any civil minded public company which may include children and their rightfully protective parents.

[thunderforce]

12 hours ago, Archanarchist said:

last night i was chatting in general with some randoms about various things macros and such when someone brought up some court ruling in america regarding trump and his taxes or something and i chimed in after a min (as i usually do :P) with the fact that the president is immune to prosecution/court order unless impeached (a basic point of law in a presidential system) i then said i wouldn't be adding any more because someone was complaining it was politics (lol only in america) then about 2 mins later i went to go post to join a team that was advertising for more and it said i had a chat ban then sparkey poped up in general and said he was chat banning people for talking about politics so i had a short complain on a alt account and went to bed

so then i log in today and get reminded of chat ban so i jump on alt account and air fact i cant join teams atm because im chat banned for pointing out the president isnt bound by court orders someone tells me to go tell alex jones (like a right wing conspiracy site is the arbitrator of the structure of Americas judicial system) and then bam i get chat banned again before i  can even respond and then gm sparkey pops up in chat saying that complaining about being chat banned is a controversial subject and anyone commenting on it after his post will be banned, but i had already been banned again with no warning

So, in summary, you talked about politics in General (as you "usually do"); you got a 24 hour ban for doing the thing you did which is obviously forbidden; you used a sock puppet to complain about it; you logged in today and used the sock puppet to talk about politics some more; the GMs didn't like it.

 

Count yourself lucky it's only 24 hours?

[thunderforce]

9 hours ago, MTeague said:

If you truly feel it was completely unjust, unmerited, and an overreaction, well, put yourself in the shoes of the GM's for a bit.  It's probably not the most fun job in the world,

Especially because, were it a _job_, they'd get money for putting up with it. As it is it's a thankless volunteer task, and even as a sometime thorn in their sides, I recognise that's no fun.

[tidge]

Couldn't keep self from posting in General.

Self-acknowledged (in General) that comments would seen as inflammatory.

Received a short ban on chatting.

Logged in on an alternate account to complain about a short chat ban.

Slept on it.

Forgot that the first account had a chat ban.

Logged into second account to complain about the chat ban by repeating/quoting original reason for chat ban.

Received a short ban on chatting on the second account.

Logged onto an account with only a single post to complain about the chat ban by repeating/quoting original reason for chat ban.

 

A question:

 

 

14 hours ago, Archanarchist said:

long story short is now someone who continually forms and joins teams and who responds to every help request im capable of (which is at least every second one) when im on is chat banned for a day because of a GM with a itchy ban finger.

 

Oh, it's because the OP responds to every other help request and continually forms and joins teams.

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by tidge

[Troo]

@Archanarchist a 24 hour is basically a timeout.. I'd learn a lesson and move on. Wait, you could login still? That's not even a timeout from the game.

 

Calling GMs out publicly is general bad juju. This is known.

 

And now having gone and read your entire post, I'd guess, if this was a live game, you're gonna need a new ip address..

 

Good job GM Sparky! Where do we send the buy a GM a coffee gift?

Edited July 10, 2020 by Troo

[Haijinx]

The purpose of the new general chat is that it funnels most of the bad posts in one place.

 

Then you can remove general from your chat channels and play the game. 

 

You aren't actually supposed to chat on it.   

 

[arcane]

If we are in agreement that we should talk about politics elsewhere, can we at least change the MotD no one is allowed to talk about? Kind of makes it hard to take the moderators seriously when they personally direct political messaging towards every player every time they log in.

[Bionic_Flea]

14 hours ago, Archanarchist said:

im just starting this thread to air a moderation issue that i encountered in game
im not sure if this is the exact forum, since im usually just commenting on threads, never had a reason to make a complaint before

last night i was chatting in general with some randoms about various things macros and such when someone brought up some court ruling in america regarding trump and his taxes or something and i chimed in after a min (as i usually do :P) with the fact that the president is immune to prosecution/court order unless impeached (a basic point of law in a presidential system) i then said i wouldn't be adding any more because someone was complaining it was politics (lol only in america) then about 2 mins later i went to go post to join a team that was advertising for more and it said i had a chat ban then sparkey poped up in general and said he was chat banning people for talking about politics so i had a short complain on a alt account and went to bed

so then i log in today and get reminded of chat ban so i jump on alt account and air fact i cant join teams atm because im chat banned for pointing out the president isnt bound by court orders someone tells me to go tell alex jones (like a right wing conspiracy site is the arbitrator of the structure of Americas judicial system) and then bam i get chat banned again before i  can even respond and then gm sparkey pops up in chat saying that complaining about being chat banned is a controversial subject and anyone commenting on it after his post will be banned, but i had already been banned again with no warning

long story short is now someone who continually forms and joins teams and who responds to every help request im capable of (which is at least every second one) when im on is chat banned for a day because of a GM with a itchy ban finger.

been playing for about a year now on server since game re released and ive never had issues like this before 
in fact ive never had issues like this before except in some private channels and chat rooms
really hope this isnt a sign of things to come 

1 - Commenting on moderation has never been allowed; even when the game was live.

2 - The president is immune to criminal prosecution while president, but that does not mean he is immune from all process.  It's been that way since at least Nixon, but as far back as Marbury v. Madison if you think about it as limitations on presidential power.

3 - Politics and religion are usually taboo subjects on forums and public chat because too many people get emotionally charged.  It's easier to avoid the topic altogether.

4 - Doing the same thing and expecting different results has been defined as insanity by some.

5 - Being a nice guy in general does not give you free rein to violate existing rules.

6 - I think a chat ban on ALL channels is a bit severe for this type of violation.

 

[MTeague]

1 minute ago, Haijinx said:

The purpose of the new general chat is that it funnels most of the bad posts in one place.

 

Then you can remove general from your chat channels and play the game. 

 

You aren't actually supposed to chat on it.   

 

Honestly, it's pretty enjoyable half the time.  (when politics is NOT being discussed, and people are talking movies / TV / trivia / things they've cooked recently, etc.)

But as we approach November, yes, I expect there will be more and more days where someone just HAS to go there, and segway the conversation into a bout of "The Other Side Sucks!"

[Haijinx]

A lot of paid first run MMOs specifically state they will ban you for complaining on game channels and forums about disciplinary actions taken against you.

[Troo]

1 minute ago, Bionic_Flea said:

6 - I think a chat ban on ALL channels is a bit severe for this type of violation.

you had me at hello... well until this last one.

[Haijinx]

Oh wait.  They are a nice guy?  

 

That changes everything.  

 

[Bionic_Flea]

2 minutes ago, Troo said:

you had me at hello... well until this last one.

*shug* Reasonable people can disagree.

[MTeague]

1 minute ago, arcaneholocaust said:

If we are in agreement that we should talk about politics elsewhere, can we at least change the MotD no one is allowed to talk about? Kind of makes it hard to take the moderators seriously when they personally direct political messaging towards every player every time they log in.

You can ask.  But only the devs / mods can choose to change it, or not, based on whether they consider it political, or not. 

 

In any event, .... putting it right out there .... the HC team is actually under no obligation to be neutral and fair minded on all matters.

If they choose to take a stance that they feel is in accordance with their beliefs, they can... because these forums and the servers are privately owned.

They are in no way obligated to provide equal time or opposing viewpoints, etc. 

 

Generally I thnk they do a good job of trying NOT to get into it. 

But if you're truly deeply bothered by a three word sentance in the gmotd, well, you have decisions to make for yourself.

[Troo]

still being able to login seems like a gift.. 'go stand in the corner. no talking to anyone else but here's a bowl of ice cream.'

 

I'd be a terrible GM.. no ice cream.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Troo