Sell Me on Caltrops

[oedipus_tex]

I admit I've rarely used this power on any archetype despite it being a common one in many sets.

 

I can see the value of it in other archetypes. How about in Martial Assault? I have a level 47 Dark/Martial Dom who has this, but I never really use it. I'm about to spec out of it... am I missing some unnoticed utility?

[kiramon]

3 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

I admit I've rarely used this power on any archetype despite it being a common one in many sets.

 

I can see the value of it in other archetypes. How about in Martial Assault? I have a level 47 Dark/Martial Dom who has this, but I never really use it. I'm about to spec out of it... am I missing some unnoticed utility?

It can be good to throw on things. 

 

Ahem. I find them to not be useful, personally. I do take Thorntrops on my Thorns, but mostly because I feel like it is the only thing it really brings to the table outside of toxic dots.. 

 

[Hedgefund]

Here's why I always take it even though there may be a string of missions where I never use it.

 

* The damage over the duration is impressive

* Useful with 1 slot, useful fully slotted for bonuses

* The main reason I always take it, regardless of AT or powersets - creates a scatter behavior to a) create a melee barrier b) another lay of "oh crap" mitigation.  This last one may be least important to a Dom (it's VERY helpful on my /dev blasters), but personally I always like having one last trick up my sleeve just in case.

[oedipus_tex]

I see. So if something were to stand in it for the full duration, I now see Caltrops would have a base DPA of 213. I just assumed the damage would be poor, around the range of Freezing Rain/Sleet, but that's actually pretty impressive. I assume you can layer multiple sets of Caltrops to increase the numbers. 

 

Hmm. I may need to think through whether keeping it would be a better idea than I first thought. Even if the fight lasts just 30 seconds that still would deal 142 damage before enhancers (ie a DPA of 107, which is significantly better than Rain of Fire or Fireball which each have DPAs in the low 50s). I had no idea the power did this much damage.

 

 

Oops, grabbed the wrong numbers. Actual DPA for a full 45 second duration is 101, which is still good, but obviously less than 213. If the fight lasts 30 seconds the DPA is in the 60s, which is a bit better than Rain of Fire or Fireball, but not only by a bit. 

 

 

How do people usually slot Caltrops these days?

Edited August 25, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Rathulfr]

6 hours ago, Hedgefund said:

Here's why I always take it even though there may be a string of missions where I never use it.

 

* The damage over the duration is impressive

* Useful with 1 slot, useful fully slotted for bonuses

* The main reason I always take it, regardless of AT or powersets - creates a scatter behavior to a) create a melee barrier b) another lay of "oh crap" mitigation.  This last one may be least important to a Dom (it's VERY helpful on my /dev blasters), but personally I always like having one last trick up my sleeve just in case.

 

I find Caltrops useful at lower levels and when solo, as a way to mitigate aggro.  When the mobs encounter Caltrops, they immediately start fleeing -- slowly (which is often quite comical).  They're no longer coming towards me, and those in range stop attacking: it's as if "run away!" becomes their top priority.  Even if it's only for a few seconds, that's usually enough time for me to either finish them off, pop an Insp, or run away myself.

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Rathulfr

[KC4800]

I have a 50 Dark/Martial I use Caltrops as a deterrent to come in to melee me when I attack from long range. I also use it with the Wide  Area Stun Power (name escapes me) to keep the mobs from staggering too far away so that my AoE attacks have maximum coverage. 

[Uun]

You can slot it with procs. I haven't done the math, but they seem to fire about every 10 seconds. 

[Six-Six]

I, too, like Caltrops (Tashibishi on other ATs) for the same reason most have listed above.

I've also experimented with them, and while I don't have numbers, I believe some of the stats people list may be misleading, at least in actual game play. The damage numbers can go up, but it only works if the mob stay on them for the entire duration, which they don't. I've also tried single slotting Ragnarok +kd proc in it... it only affects one out of the entire mob for every activation. On other ATs, I've slotted them with the Sentinel ATO (It's the only Mastery power that takes ATOs, which is why I take it on Sents), the ATOs both proc very well, as I would see several +Absorb and +Opportunity in almost all who enter the AoE, but numbers-wise, the silver absorb bar as well as the opportunity bar wouldn't reflect it. 

If I have slots to spare, I just stick two slow IOs for the set bonus. otherwise it's just a single proc... just so the slot doesn't go to waste.

[Dauntless]

I skipped it on my dark/martial, so you get no love from me on this one.  Area denial is useful sometimes, which dark control does not have on its own.  The "run away" fear is almost helpful, but it comes late enough that dark control is more or less standing on its own.  If I took it I'd definitely pair it with a macro to drop caltrops at either my or my enemy's feet. I think Hedgefund's observation that caltrops is nicely functional without additional slots is the best praise in this thread.

 

But I haven't found any of these options appealing enough to actually try, so take it for what it's worth.

[MTeague]

On 8/26/2020 at 11:58 AM, Uun said:

You can slot it with procs. I haven't done the math, but they seem to fire about every 10 seconds. 

I have not noticed procs firing well with Caltrops on Homecoming.  It's possible I just have bad luck / poor observational skillz.  I admit, I did not look at my combat log.

 

Mainly I use them for Area Denial, and they're fantastic for this purpose.  If I start to take too much damage, Caltrops, and I get time for inspirations, or for Regen to kick in, and 3-4 free hits.  Usually even more, since some mobs then run back in (slowly) to melee you and then are like "omg! I'm on caltrops!" and run back out again (slowly). 

 

They're also the hands-down best way my Scrapper has to IMMEDIATELY take heat off a squishy.  Yes, "kill the baddies" is a better long-term way of taking heat of the squishy, but if they're not going to live long enough for me to cycle some AE attacks, I can fire off Caltrops with a Keybind-and-Click.  I always do this if I see someone get nailed by a Sapper and Detoggled.  Toss caltrops at their feet, for a measure of protection.  Then claw the Sapper's face off.  (/SR, the Sapper didn't hit me...)

 

My Thugs/Traps used them a lot at lower levels to keep minions alive before I got both Enforcers and Force Field Generator.  I still like them for the same reasons above.  And they're a nice One-Slot-Wonder. You certainly CAN slot them up for certain set bonuses, but they're good for the job I use them for right out of the box, too.

[Six-Six]

I've never thought of them as an ally-protection-plan-B. 😃  I will now.

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 8/31/2020 at 8:01 PM, MTeague said:

I have not noticed procs firing well with Caltrops on Homecoming.  It's possible I just have bad luck / poor observational skillz.  I admit, I did not look at my combat log.

 

Mainly I use them for Area Denial, and they're fantastic for this purpose.  If I start to take too much damage, Caltrops, and I get time for inspirations, or for Regen to kick in, and 3-4 free hits.  Usually even more, since some mobs then run back in (slowly) to melee you and then are like "omg! I'm on caltrops!" and run back out again (slowly). 

 

They're also the hands-down best way my Scrapper has to IMMEDIATELY take heat off a squishy.  Yes, "kill the baddies" is a better long-term way of taking heat of the squishy, but if they're not going to live long enough for me to cycle some AE attacks, I can fire off Caltrops with a Keybind-and-Click.  I always do this if I see someone get nailed by a Sapper and Detoggled.  Toss caltrops at their feet, for a measure of protection.  Then claw the Sapper's face off.  (/SR, the Sapper didn't hit me...)

 

My Thugs/Traps used them a lot at lower levels to keep minions alive before I got both Enforcers and Force Field Generator.  I still like them for the same reasons above.  And they're a nice One-Slot-Wonder. You certainly CAN slot them up for certain set bonuses, but they're good for the job I use them for right out of the box, too.

Proc-wise, they have a chance to trigger on cast and then every 10 seconds.  So combined with a mass immobilize or hold, it works a lot better.

 

That said, they are also superb for getting things out of your face pretty much instantly when there is no mass control.

 

They'rrrrrrrrrrre great both ways!

[kelika2]

fire/martial (or thorn)

bonfire with KB to KD.  caltrops keeps the targets inside.  fire cages is crap

[Troo]

ever fought these?

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Knives_of_Artemis

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Arachnos_Archvillains#Shadow_Spider