Old school playing is getting rare

[Yomo Kimyata]

48 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

 

The most risk-free Posi 1 I’ve ever done was with a team of exemplar players who were—at minimum—IO basics and level 25+, and I have never cleared Posi 2 since as fast as that team did either.

 

 

A team of level 15s running Posi 1 would each have 9 powers with a total of 23 slots avAilable if I’ve done the math right which I may not have.  A team exemplaring would each have access to powers up to level 20, so 12 powers and up to 6 slots per power.  It’s night and day.  
 

personally, I think exemplaring content makes it WAY too easy with the +5 level power rule.  

[skoryy]

9 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

personally, I think exemplaring content makes it WAY too easy with the +5 level power rule.

OK, now do Synapse.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

9 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

A team of level 15s running Posi 1 would each have 9 powers with a total of 23 slots avAilable if I’ve done the math right which I may not have.  A team exemplaring would each have access to powers up to level 20, so 12 powers and up to 6 slots per power.  It’s night and day.  
 

personally, I think exemplaring content makes it WAY too easy with the +5 level power rule.  

If you think that is the source of the power gap, then you are really not paying attention. Hell that aspect of the power gap was seen as so trivial they didnt even bother limiting a characters powers at all on champions online.

 

The gap that gives the advantage when exemping especially from higher levels is set bonuses, temp powers, and larger inspiration trays, and the funds to keep super large dual team insps flowing like water. A couple powers is nice and all but not that big deal. This is also why proc monster builds tend to double well as exemp builds. As while %s from enhancements do reduce down with exemping, procs keep doing their thing reliably.

 

And obviously lvl 50s with purple sets, whose bonuses stay good all the way down low, and have some of the strongest procs, make level 50s who exemp have  a real edge if their build took exemping into account. Which imo is a good thing as it rewards those who plan and prepare.

 

Its having that extra power that lets me happily pug TFs taking whatever I get without a 2nd thought because I know I can solo the AV at the end no matter what.

[Ironblade]

12 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

The gap that gives the advantage when exemping especially from higher levels is set bonuses, temp powers, and larger inspiration trays,

Oh yeah.  My scrapper normally has his insp tray full of T2 and T3 purples.

That makes Posi a cakewalk.  Well, for me at least.  There might be a lot of dying AROUND me.  😛

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

1 hour ago, Ironblade said:

Oh yeah.  My scrapper normally has his insp tray full of T2 and T3 purples.

That makes Posi a cakewalk.  Well, for me at least.  There might be a lot of dying AROUND me.  😛

Cold blooded man, I usually splurge and use a load of large team dual insp to help the poor berks around me.

[Omega-202]

On 9/7/2020 at 9:42 AM, skoryy said:

OK, now do Synapse.

Synapse isn't hard, it's just tedious.  

 

While Sister Psyche and Posi OG got replaced, Synapse, Numina and Citadel have remained in their launch form and are less of a challenge and are just a slog.  All 3 need a revamp.  Manticore is surprisingly ok, if only because the back half of it is stealthable.  

[Dazl]

Yeah I was doing a Posi 1 & 2 yesterday with a 50 and could see other team members struggling with endurance and health issues. Forgot about the group inspirations, I'll have to be more mindful of that in the future.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

18 minutes ago, Crimsonpyre said:

Yeah I was doing a Posi 1 & 2 yesterday with a 50 and could see other team members struggling with endurance and health issues. Forgot about the group inspirations, I'll have to be more mindful of that in the future.

IMO and personal experience, the best place to use things like temp powers is on those low level TFs when you have a  lot of at levels with you that are not always up to snuff. For example stun grenades are able to make a big impact at ccing mobs at such a low level.

 

The various temp pet powers are also nice for things like changing the tide against the shadow clones at the end of posi one. a war wolf and shivan from each player used there as Ive had happen a few times when running with more experienced players makes that army of doubles into mince meat. Then there was that time we did an all MM posi 1..... do not suggest that lol.

[Ironblade]

12 hours ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Cold blooded man, I usually splurge and use a load of large team dual insp to help the poor berks around me.

I never really got into dual or team inspirations.  I've only remembered to turn them on for one of my tanks and I have bought them for 'Really Hard Way' badge runs of the Magisterium.  Most of the time, I forget they even exist.

[Rejolt]

On 9/2/2020 at 6:48 PM, MTeague said:

I thought it was 

 

"God, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

 the Courage to change the things I can, 

 and the Wisdom, to hide the bodies, of those people I had to kill, 

 because they PISSED ME OFF"

 

though I suppose that works better on a coffee mug, than in actual practice.

I thought it was Grant me Coffee for things I can change and Wine for the things I can not.

[MTeague]

3 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

While Sister Psyche and Posi OG got replaced, Synapse, Numina and Citadel have remained in their launch form and are less of a challenge and are just a slog.  All 3 need a revamp.  Manticore is surprisingly ok, if only because the back half of it is stealthable.  

That's actually why I don't like Manticore TF.  Sooooo many groups want to stealth it. 

I'm much more a Kill All or Kill Most player at heart.

 

Some TF's, I debate whether to solo, or to try to form a group that's actually on board with that idea.

[Omega-202]

1 minute ago, MTeague said:

That's actually why I don't like Manticore TF.  Sooooo many groups want to stealth it. 

I'm much more a Kill All or Kill Most player at heart.

 

Some TF's, I debate whether to solo, or to try to form a group that's actually on board with that idea.

Different strokes for different folks.  In my opinion, a kill all/most Manticore is just as tedious as Synapse/Numina/Citadel, especially if you don't have the spike damage or controls to drop the energy Protectors before they hit MoG.  To me, there's nothing fun about having a staring contest with a floating pom pom'd Protector, just waiting for their defenses to crash.  

 

If I was looking for a kill all activity, I'd prefer Market Crash or TinPex.  For me, the fun of Manticore is trying to beat my best completion time.  

[Bill Z Bubba]

7 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

For me, the fun of Manticore is trying to beat my best completion time.  

Soloing it on Min diff seems to net me pretty good times.

[Omega-202]

12 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Soloing it on Min diff seems to net me pretty good times.

My best run was on a 6 man 0/8, where the whole team was a well oiled machine of people I regularly play with. TT to every mission door, someone bailing early to go to Ms. Liberty, 4 people skipping the KR hostage mission to go straight to Crey's for the hunt, etc.

 

I think the time was somewhere in the area of 20 min or so, faster than some bad Speed ITFs I've done.  

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

19 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

My best run was on a 6 man 0/8, where the whole team was a well oiled machine of people I regularly play with. TT to every mission door, someone bailing early to go to Ms. Liberty, 4 people skipping the KR hostage mission to go straight to Crey's for the hunt, etc.

 

I think the time was somewhere in the area of 20 min or so, faster than some bad Speed ITFs I've done.  

Yeah a lot like on a Hess TF, if you get a team that wants all the team to  load in for each radar station it adds soo much time to the run, it is literally the only thing that will get me to quit a hess run if I do join one another is running, is seeing resistance to 4 people spreading out to get them done in a minute or so.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

21 hours ago, Ironblade said:

I never really got into dual or team inspirations.  I've only remembered to turn them on for one of my tanks and I have bought them for 'Really Hard Way' badge runs of the Magisterium.  Most of the time, I forget they even exist.

In no one wanting to sound critical, just want to point out that Im pretty sure your experienced enough to know the multiplier that is team buffs vs personal ones. A full team all using team insp is not unlike a team full of defenders.

[Johnny]

For low-level task forces, or teaming in general, people seem to overlook Recall Friend, which is fairly painless to work in around level 8.

 

Recall Friend is a versatile tool for helping get people to mission doors, especially when they'd needed to level quickly, or don't have their main travel power. Sometimes, a player gets lost in the mission, or a defeated player can be yanked into a safe spot for rezzing.

[ShardWarrior]

7 minutes ago, Johnny said:

For low-level task forces, or teaming in general, people seem to overlook Recall Friend, which is fairly painless to work in around level 8.

 

Recall Friend is a versatile tool for helping get people to mission doors, especially when they'd needed to level quickly, or don't have their main travel power. Sometimes, a player gets lost in the mission, or a defeated player can be yanked into a safe spot for rezzing.

I am not sure overlook is the correct way to phrase it.  People know it is there.  It is using up a pool pick that more often than not is better used on something else. 

[Johnny]

17 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

I am not sure overlook is the correct way to phrase it.  People know it is there.  It is using up a pool pick that more often than not is better used on something else. 

Overlook is *exactly* the term for it. People *know* it is there, but they skip it, thinking their build will be "suboptimal," whilst neglecting the benefits of having teammates with it.

[Omega-202]

29 minutes ago, Johnny said:

For low-level task forces, or teaming in general, people seem to overlook Recall Friend, which is fairly painless to work in around level 8.

 

Recall Friend is a versatile tool for helping get people to mission doors, especially when they'd needed to level quickly, or don't have their main travel power. Sometimes, a player gets lost in the mission, or a defeated player can be yanked into a safe spot for rezzing.

But when ATT is so cheap, everyone should make a point to buy it from the P2W.  Other than someone on their first character, there's really no excuse.  If 8 people have it, then there's no reason anyone should waste a power pick or pool slot on Recall.  If you really wanted to take a pool power, taking Manuevers would help the team more in the long run.  

 

2 minutes ago, Johnny said:

Overlook is *exactly* the term for it. People *know* it is there, but they skip it, thinking their build will be "suboptimal," whilst neglecting the benefits of having teammates with it.

They would be suboptimal.  You can take Recall, or you can get ATT and something else.  That's the definition of suboptimal.  

Edited September 9, 2020 by Omega-202

[ShardWarrior]

2 minutes ago, Johnny said:

Overlook is *exactly* the term for it. People *know* it is there, but they skip it, thinking their build will be "suboptimal," whilst neglecting the benefits of having teammates with it.

Perhaps this is just me, but I understand "overlook" to mean failing to notice something.  Again, people know it is there and they know what it does yet are still choosing not to take it.  Given that ATT is now available, I personally very rarely - if ever - see anyone taking Recall Friend.  It is a waste of a pool pick in my opinion. 

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

1 hour ago, Johnny said:

Overlook is *exactly* the term for it. People *know* it is there, but they skip it, thinking their build will be "suboptimal," whilst neglecting the benefits of having teammates with it.

Unless the RP concept really conflicts with it for some reason I take recall on all my toons with natural stealth powers to make ghosting through TF mishes when possible always an option. Ill be honest I tend to look at stalkers especially who cant fit in recall early as truly selfish solo centric builds that I really dont value even a fraction as much as one with recall on my TF teams.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

Perhaps this is just me, but I understand "overlook" to mean failing to notice something.  Again, people know it is there and they know what it does yet are still choosing not to take it.  Given that ATT is now available, I personally very rarely - if ever - see anyone taking Recall Friend.  It is a waste of a pool pick in my opinion. 

ATT has a cool down far too long to be of reliable use on TFs for a ghost operative. Its also far better under many conditions to recall a downed ally to a safer locale to rez them depending on team and dif setting. Back in the day most people with a rez power took recall and stealth powers pretty sop.

 

As one who leads TFs often, I can tell you a guy with invis and recall will be the MVP in my eyes every time even if all they otherwise do is afk when running any TF that has enough stealth mish objectives to make having one reduce time in a given mish meaningfully.

 

Or last night when I lead an Ice mistral, one guy had lost his travel powers, and was having a hell of a time with just fly and ninja run( I know I know but I guess they were like always ss/sj or something)) So my ability to recall them every time they got lost in the crazy orenbegan maze of ruins was having the guy be most thankful.

 

What you are really saying is you just favor selfish builds, and dont see why team-centric players might value builds that benefit others directly more then themselves.

[ShardWarrior]

2 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

ATT has a cool down far too long to be of reliable use on TFs for a ghost operative.

Everyone on the team can have ATT and TT with no loss of a pool pick.  Most TFs do not require it for every single mission either.

 

2 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

What you are really saying is you just favor selfish builds, and dont see why team-centric players might value builds that benefit others directly more then themselves.

And what you are saying is you discriminate against people who do not build or play the way you believe is "correct".

[ZacKing]

Recall is useless now that everyone can have ATT and TT.  If you need to move off to rez a player "in safety", you're not helping the rest of the team while dicking around with someone who took a dirt nap.  Team can clear the mobs and the dead person can use an awaken or hosp/sg base it.