Is it possible to merge all content?

[Judasace]

Just get rid of Null the Gull, leave tips fpr people that want to play them, but just open up red, blue and gold to all players of all levels without  restriction. Almost no one plays Gold at all, very   few people play Red...all that content that's just going to waste because 90% of the people stick to blue

Edited September 7, 2020 by Judasace

[Vanden]

The alignment system isn't the reason red and gold zones go largely unused.

[Outrider_01]

1 hour ago, Judasace said:

Just get rid of Null the Gull,

That is supposed to open the content.

 

As for blue, its because...gasp people congregrate.  Can't fault them, just make friends and roll the stories without expecting random Joe Schmoe and Jane Plain to be looking for groups red side as you stand there for hours; because no one wants to run red side.  Just bring people instead of expecting them to show up.

[Clave Dark 5]

We've hashed over this before and the above posters are basically right, a lot of people won't play redside because they don;'t like villains (goldside I would think is because it's tough at lower levels a lot).

 

So be the change you want to see in the 'verse!  Go start broadcasting for villain teams and you'll find some players who'll tag along.

[Haijinx]

Interesting idea.  

 

Why not?  Longbow and Vanguard Operate in the Rogue isles.   Villain groups already attack Villain players.  Even Arachnos (lol)

 

Assuming, as always, it can be done easily.  

 

But leave Null the Gull, because you may want to switch you alignment even with this idea.  

 

[Replacement]

@Vanden and @Outrider_01, I think they're saying get rid of null the gull as in "get rid of alignments." 

So lfg and lfg chat would be combined, and anyone could go where the XP is without any extra steps.

 

It still doesn't really work without extensive overhauls though, as we have contacts and story elements keyed specifically to the 2 grey alignments.

 

And also, yes: Null the gull provides several other important services so you still wouldn't actually delete him. Just remove alignment change since it would be pointless in this vision.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

This would certainly go hand in glove with ideas like wanting to turn pvp zones into co op zones and develop content in them, and doing away with pvp zones and instead let players flag themselves as pvp enabled and able to be attacked by those of the opposed alignments.

 

I think its all natural to want. Remove the artificial barriers, expand our world into one bigger more open and expansive one by making all the zones for everyone all the time. I saw a couple in zone chat yesterday being blown away by the existence of bloody bay when some started talking about it. They had never heard of the zone, since content does not really direct you out there. And they found the entire zone a really cool place just to fly around and explore, and wondered why it didnt have more story arcs tied to it. Well surprise, its because as a pvp zone, enough players back in the day said dont bother putting pve content out there, because it will only annoy the pve players to feel forced to go to pvp zones for content.

 

The Shivans are a part of coh lore, and the zone they are most connected to, virtually no one new knows about, and old players avoid aside from grabbing a shard now and then. It being a pvp zones makes it be a reason to avoid for most.

 

PvP was a failed concept as it was done in this game. It failed to capture the nature of hero vs hero and hero vs villain from the genre it is born from, and it only created reasons to avoid some content rather then expanded the content.

 

I still think pvp should be open world server specific with ones alignment determining the reward/penalty for PKing. So like a hero who beats down another hero would end up with a major penalty to their influence, while beating a vil would be a big surge, based on lvls and all that. Obviously would need some kind of serious penalty for killing lowbies for laughs.

[Judasace]

LOL @ the idea of getting people in this game to switch to red side to do a Strikeforce. People can barely manage to get to Faultline during Posi 2, or get to Striga for Moonfire. I had to explain to someone for 5 minutes how to just use the train to get to Croatoa for Katie because they "Forgot to add their character to their SG" and didn't know how to get around without using a base transporter.

 

It's not a matter of me wanting a group to go do red side. If I want to do red, I'll go red and solo it. I wouldn't even play blue side regular story arcs with a group, it's too much of  a hassle. SF/TFs are another matter.  I was really just wondering of there were an  easy way of using some assets that are essentially just sitting there by adding a barrier free way to have the average player be able to access a little more content. It was a suggestion to help the health of the game, not something that would in any way benefit me personally or enrich my own particular playstyle.

 

 

[Troo]

@Judasace Is it possible to merge all content?

No.. and yet they did find a way, but your first sentence suggests removing it.

The health of the game may not be helped by watering it down. (more zones/more contacts/more under played content)

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by Troo

[MTeague]

I'm not necessarily opposed to allowing anyone to go anywhere anytime.

But I have zero expectation that this would increase people coming to redside, and I say this as a redside enthusiast.

 

Unless you completely rewrite all redside mission text, you will have a sizeable fraction of the player base who just don't ever want to set foot in the Rogue Isles.  

They just don't want to be the Bad Guy. Full stop. Not even in a game.  Those players, no incentive or lowering of mechanical barriers will ever budge, not one iota.

 

You also have X people who would try it, but who are immediately turned off by being treated like a lackey at low levels. They want to be Doctor Doom right out of the gate at level one, and don't like the idea of having to build up Street Cred before the missions treat you like a Big Bad.

 

Then you have the "I would play redside if more people played redside, but people play blueside, so I play blueside" players who are caught in a self-reinforcing feedback loop. @Clave Dark 5 is right on that point.  If you have a regular squad you team with a few times a week, SG or not, can be just random global friends, play blueside with them, but bring up the idea of maybe playing redside one night a week.  Same way there's "Tanker Tuesday" groups, maybe see if they want to try Redside Wednesday or Redside Monday, just to shake things up a little.  They may shoot the idea down fast, but you don't need hundreds of people to come over to red, just a semi-regular group you play with.  Don't even really need a full group, a squad of 5 or even just a duo partner can be fun, too.

 

Another thing, is that there's also players who do play redside, but tend to be very Lone Wolf on thier villains. Some of that is becuase of population realities, but some of it is also mental roleplay vs world. After all, if you imagine your villain to be a Big Bad who will eventually bid for world domination, then why exactly is your villain agreeing to help out my villain? etc.  So some redside players may be more standoffish for those reasons.

Edited September 7, 2020 by MTeague

[tidge]

20 hours ago, MTeague said:

I'm not necessarily opposed to allowing anyone to go anywhere anytime.

But I have zero expectation that this would increase people coming to redside, and I say this as a redside enthusiast.

 

Unless you completely rewrite all redside mission text, you will have a sizeable fraction of the player base who just don't ever want to set foot in the Rogue Isles.  

They just don't want to be the Bad Guy. Full stop. Not even in a game.  Those players, no incentive or lowering of mechanical barriers will ever budge, not one iota.

 

You also have X people who would try it, but who are immediately turned off by being treated like a lackey at low levels. They want to be Doctor Doom right out of the gate at level one, and don't like the idea of having to build up Street Cred before the missions treat you like a Big Bad.

/agree

 

I am another redside enthusiast; there are no shortage of sincere explanations by players why they don't like to play the red side. In addition to their complaints about the mission structures (i.e. feeling like a lackey, or even just "being a bad guy") there are also folks who don't like the maps or atmospherics.

 

Even though I and others don't agree with those complaints (or at least, don't treat them as show-stoppers) and enjoy playing redside, there is no reason to believe that (further, beyond Null the Gull) 'opening' of redside would lead to an increase in players there.

[drdread]

How about just removing the alignment restrictions for team-ups? Red and Gold can play with Blue.

 

This leaves solo players with the alignment restrictions, but team-ups are open to everyone?

[Judasace]

I don't think people will "Go to red side" either.

 

But I believe there are a lot of people that would do the SFs for badges and variety.

[tidge]

49 minutes ago, Judasace said:

I don't think people will "Go to red side" either.

 

But I believe there are a lot of people that would do the SFs for badges and variety.

The badgers will change alignments, as there are badges associated with that activity.

[Judasace]

12 minutes ago, tidge said:

The badgers will change alignments, as there are badges associated with that activity.

Except that there's no one really playing red side, so getting the SFs done is difficult on all servers and near impossible on some. Honestly, all the nay saying is just nay saying for the sake of "don't make any changes to the game!" There is no reason not to do it other than technical or resource limitations.

[Apparition]

On 9/8/2020 at 12:20 PM, drdread said:

How about just removing the alignment restrictions for team-ups? Red and Gold can play with Blue.

 

This leaves solo players with the alignment restrictions, but team-ups are open to everyone?

 

1 hour ago, Judasace said:

I don't think people will "Go to red side" either.

 

But I believe there are a lot of people that would do the SFs for badges and variety.

 

20 minutes ago, Judasace said:

Except that there's no one really playing red side, so getting the SFs done is difficult on all servers and near impossible on some. Honestly, all the nay saying is just nay saying for the sake of "don't make any changes to the game!" There is no reason not to do it other than technical or resource limitations.

Blue siders and red siders can already team up, via the rogue and vigilante alignments.  All of the characters played by my friends and I are either Rogue or Vigilante, and routinely play both blue side TFs and red side SFs together every night.

 

There are definitely people playing red side.  All of my characters start out either red or gold side, but the vast majority red.  IMO, red side is significantly better than blue side, and tends to have better players than blue side for a couple of reasons.  And, as I said, my friends and I run at least one SF per night.

[TygerDarkstorm]

31 minutes ago, Judasace said:

Except that there's no one really playing red side, so getting the SFs done is difficult on all servers and near impossible on some. Honestly, all the nay saying is just nay saying for the sake of "don't make any changes to the game!" There is no reason not to do it other than technical or resource limitations.

Idk if you're on a low-pop server, but this is certainly not true for all the servers. I play on Everlasting and the LFG chat has groups forming for redside and even *gasp* goldside on a near daily basis (the goldside groups are a little rarer, but still). I have also not witnessed it being an issue getting a group of 6-8 people together for the weekly SF's, and when I do pop over redside to play some of my alts, I have noticed even more people in Mercy Island that appear to be leveling up their toons via missions. There is nothing stopping you from using the LFG chat to form your own group for any of the content you desire to run, be it red, gold, or blue. Sure, the time of the day will affect how many people might be around and willing to do something, but chances are if you put out the call, people will answer.

 

And like others have said, Null the Gull exists, in part, to help close the "gap" between people not playing content. People starting in Praetoria may not be able to leave until level 20, but if they're looking for company, there's nothing stopping blue and redsiders from joining them. Same goes for doing stuff on redside; there are more people than you think that are rogue/vigilante and willing to hop sides to help out/do content. Others have already explained why many people don't/won't play redside so I won't touch that, but the system Homecoming has implemented seems fine as is, and if there's anything I've learned from games like WoW just merging stuff and making things that seem arbitrary--like sides--irrelevant, it usually just makes things worse and more bland. I like the way CoX handles these things right now; if you got rid of alignments completely, what would be the point of heroes and villains then? For me, the game would lose a lot of its flavor. I think having the tip missions, opening up the AT's to be available to create for both sides, and null the gull for those who want to switch sides immediately/before you get tip missions, makes the content more available to everyone, while still maintaining the theme of heroes and villains, but now with rogue/vigilante flavor.

[drdread]

4 hours ago, Apparition said:

Blue siders and red siders can already team up, via the rogue and vigilante alignments.  All of the characters played by my friends and I are either Rogue or Vigilante, and routinely play both blue side TFs and red side SFs together every night.

 

With the alignment system, you do get to play with 3 of the four alignments, but usually one alignment gets blocked.

Hero (Rogue, Vigilante), no villains.

Villain (Rogue, Vigilante) no heroes.

Rogue (Hero, Villain), no vigilantes.

Vigilante (Hero, Villain), no  rogues.

[Apparition]

7 minutes ago, drdread said:

 

With the alignment system, you do get to play with 3 of the four alignments, but usually one alignment gets blocked.

Hero (Rogue, Vigilante), no villains.

Villain (Rogue, Vigilante) no heroes.

Rogue (Hero, Villain), no vigilantes.

Vigilante (Hero, Villain), no  rogues.

 

Uhh... You do get to play with Vigilantes as a Rogue, and you do get to play with Rogues as a Vigilante.  As for Hero and Villain, the only two reasons to choose those alignments is for RP purposes, or if you're playing a Dominator where you want the Villain alignment power.  So basically IMO, if you're not playing a Dominator, your character's alignment should be Rogue or Vigilante, which lets you play with everyone.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Apparition

[MTeague]

1 hour ago, Apparition said:

 

As for Hero and Villain, the only two reasons to choose those alignments is for RP purposes,

Most important reason of all, right there, in my book. 

I get that I may be "Same Planet/Different World" to a lot of people, but.... yea. 

 

For my characters? 

• If their character concept is Always Hero / Dudley Do Right, then they will be Hero. Not Vig.
• And if their character concept is Doctor Doom / Global Menace, they will be Villain, not Rogue.
• Now, I do have some characters who are more of a "I don't arrest the bad guys, I kill them. And anyway, I am answerable only to my own code." Those characters, are Vigilante. 
• And I do have some characters who have zero desire to rule the world or lord over anyone else, they just want to make a not-even-close-to-legal fortune.  Those characters, are Rogues.

But I care about which one they're categorized as, whether or not 99% of the player base gives a flying leap.  And whether or not it cuts down teaming options for me. And even whether or not it cuts down content option and even whether or not it prevents from from ever picking up a Patron pool.

[Apparition]

5 minutes ago, MTeague said:

Most important reason of all, right there, in my book. 

I get that I may be "Same Planet/Different World" to a lot of people, but.... yea. 

 

For my characters? 

• If their character concept is Always Hero / Dudley Do Right, then they will be Hero. Not Vig.
• And if their character concept is Doctor Doom / Global Menace, they will be Villain, not Rogue.
• Now, I do have some characters who are more of a "I don't arrest the bad guys, I kill them. And anyway, I am answerable only to my own code." Those characters, are Vigilante. 
• And I do have some characters who have zero desire to rule the world or lord over anyone else, they just want to make a not-even-close-to-legal fortune.  Those characters, are Rogues.

But I care about which one they're categorized as, whether or not 99% of the player base gives a flying leap.  And whether or not it cuts down teaming options for me. And even whether or not it cuts down content option and even whether or not it prevents from from ever picking up a Patron pool.

 

I get that and understand it, but for me doing something for RP purposes is simply not an option when it limits or even outright eliminates the possibility of teaming with friends.  Your mileage may, and obviously does, vary.

[FoulVileTerror]

I'll also support efforts toward something along these lines, but will hazard that it could require a significant amount of work to "do it correctly."  Like, whole-new-game-expansion amounts of work.

And the Homecoming Team has demonstrated a dedication to the "do it correctly" mindset (notwithstanding whether one feels they've actually managed to pull that off or not).

 

Not to get too horn-tooty, but I said a great deal on the subject back during:  https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/19655-weekly-discussion-53-how-to-increase-villain-population

Specifically:  https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/19655-weekly-discussion-53-how-to-increase-villain-population/page/7/?tab=comments#comment-222758

[MTeague]

2 hours ago, Apparition said:

I get that and understand it, but for me doing something for RP purposes is simply not an option when it limits or even outright eliminates the possibility of teaming with friends.  Your mileage may, and obviously does, vary.

I just figure I have 15 blueside, 15 redside, 10 goldside. 

Maybe I have to switch characters to team with friends?

But I can totally still team with people and bring whatever is needed....tanking, support, controls, melee, or ranged.... just fine.

 

I do get and respect where you're coming from, though.

 

[tidge]

I'm sympathetic to role-players, but I must admit that I don't understand why anyone ask that the world change to provide more 'content options' for a preferred style of role-play, when the option to get to that content is already part of the world.

 

Writing only for myself: I have a couple of 'heroes' that I would prefer to think of as pure goodhearts, but I imagined a role-play reason to take them red-side. I have a few villains who find themselves on the blue-side for their own reasons. I have other characters with slightly less role-play investment who will change alignments on a whim. Full disclosure: I haven't yet rolled up a gold character on Homecoming (I had done so on Live) because I personally haven't thought of an initial RP concept that I want to start there (I have the germ of an idea, but I have to decide on the AT). I have run quite a lot of Gold missions with at least one of my other characters via the Pillar.