Game Balance & The Endgame

[Parabola]

4 minutes ago, zenblack said:

Bio Armor is the best of the armor sets

It might be the best of the offensive armour sets (some would argue for fire here) but I wouldn't say it is the best overall. It just doesn't have the defensive chops when the going gets really tough. Rad is my current pick for the best all round armour set at the minute.

[Parabola]

51 minutes ago, Floridian said:

The Cross-Zone Teleport power is so slow... I can jump to my SG Base, use its teleporter, and arrive at my destination before my girlfriend can using her *own teleportation ability* to go to the same place.

To be fair this is only because of the no activation time base tp command that the devs have already said they are unhappy about. But your point still stands - teleport as a whole could really use some love. Theme 10/10, mechanics 1/10.

[ScarySai]

Would really like to see that command get the axe.

 

Can't even be assed to walk in a game with various teleports and super speeds already in it? Come on. Least they could do is walk to the base portal.

[arcane]

35 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

I think that's the point right there.  You don't look at Time Manipulation.  You look at Time Manipulation with specific powers.  Power Boost?  You just limited what powersets to take, to get it to that point, and I promise you, not everyone who takes Time Manipulation, is taking Power Boost.

 

What is that, one Epic for Defenders, Controllers and Corruptors to take?  I don't believe Masterminds have access to it.  It also has 1 toggle, and then a bunch of clickies, that generally, people prefer toggles, and the toggle is turned off if Held/Stunned/Slept and it gives no Defense, just some -toHit, that the character has to have the enemy in the middle of or at least on the edge of.

 

So, you're thinking is, people willing to limit themselves to one Epic Pool, make the set powerful?  Then change the Epic Pool power 😛

I didn’t argue it wasn’t powerful without power boost. Just that it was absurdly powerful with. It will remain very powerful without, plus I look forward to justifying different epic pools lol.

[Jimmy]

11 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Would really like to see that command get the axe.

We do as well, but we're not getting rid of until there's a viable alternative to sharing base access easily, and unfortunately that's not super simple to achieve.

[Mezmera]

32 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Based on several posts on this page, looks like Power Boost is a problem but that really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that uses it.

 

I only have one request for all future changes/balances/buffs/nerfs/etc... can I get in closed testing? 🙂

It's a very nice power for people that think outside of the box.  Instead of a straight damage boosting power like BU or Aim it's able to enhance your defense powers and in particular long recharging ones the best.  It is too bad it doesn't enhance resistance powers as well because it's hard coded not to so some characters benefit greatly and some in that same AT that can still get power boost it hasn't as much effect.  

 

I have it on my dom and in place of higher extra damage like Fiery Embrace it provides a small uptick in damage but makes me so much better in all other areas.  I don't like that ominous statement about what's going to be looked at for power boost since it's been as it has since the start of the game.  It really has come into its own with the advancement of Unleash Potential and self buffing defense supports like Time.  Power boost is very much OP on certain corruptors and that it's also in the same pool as Soul Drain makes it an obvious Patron Pool to take on corrs.  

 

Instead of blanket nerfs to power boost to reign in Corruptors I'd much prefer values were looked at for certain long defense buffs that benefit most from it.  Like is there another source of +defense the AT can get from enhancing themselves with Power boosted powers.  Say if you nerf Time buffs to compensate for power boosting values you're hurting those that don't take power boost the most and then what of doms whose only outside source of a long recharging defense buff is Unleash Potential?  There's a lot that could go wrong with tinkering and it may show that it only serves to play the game as Fire blasters.  

Edited September 22, 2020 by Mezmera

[WindDemon21]

30 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Based on several posts on this page, looks like Power Boost is a problem but that really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that uses it.

 

I only have one request for all future changes/balances/buffs/nerfs/etc... can I get in closed testing? 🙂

Except that it is VERY limited in doing that for only a handful of sets, and they are forced to choose that epic in order to do so. I don't see it's literally ONLY really viable use in a small handful of circumstances as a huge issue.

 

Removing this ability would all but completely invalidate the power as it is. I have explained why in my previous post. If you change or remove this mechanic, you may as well just get rid off the power entirely.

[Saikochoro]

On 9/20/2020 at 5:16 PM, Bopper said:

It's funny. After months of people clamoring for an update on what is in Page 6 and with just a small teaser and some forthcoming discussion on future plans, this thread shows proof once again why things are held close to the chest before releasing any information about possible changes. Way to go guys.

Agreed. I may be in a minority, but some of the downright disrespectful and ungrateful comments in this thread are why I think we should have downvotes. Though I guess some of the emojis are used as such. 
 

You’d think people would be grateful that there is a talented team of individuals doing all this stuff for FREE. Yet, we still have people throwing the team under the bus under the guise of “feedback” or “criticism”.  People need to be more grateful and less entitled. 
 

Feedback and criticism is fine. Disagreeing with the devs is fine. However, being downright disrespectful of the VOLUNTEER dev team is unacceptable. 

[Parabola]

20 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Except that it is VERY limited in doing that for only a handful of sets, and they are forced to choose that epic in order to do so. I don't see it's literally ONLY really viable use in a small handful of circumstances as a huge issue.

 

Removing this ability would all but completely invalidate the power as it is. I have explained why in my previous post. If you change or remove this mechanic, you may as well just get rid off the power entirely.

Maybe if the interaction with defence buffs was reigned in it would leave space to boost it's interaction with other effects. It could then be a more worthwhile choice for a greater range of sets.

[WindDemon21]

Just now, parabola said:

Maybe if the interaction with defence buffs was reigned in it would leave space to boost it's interaction with other effects. It could then be a more worthwhile choice for a greater range of sets.

I've always said it should boost resistance, regen, and recovery buffs as well, but then you're looking at the same complaints (which aren't large enough to justify imo since that IS WHAT THE POWER IS SUPPOSED TO DO) otherwise, you're literally taking away the whole point of the power.

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

Epic pool variants of power boost and such, as well.

But it's Power Boost making one feel ridiculously powerful with Time Manipulation and then Incarnates (which make lots of things feel ridiculously powerful).

 

Time Manipulation without Power Boost, awesome yes, but nothing that needs altered.  I feel my Water/Time Corruptor is equal to my Dark/DP Defender survival wise, but the Defender feels like it helps more on the hard targets (but Time helps with defenses on the way to them better).

[arcane]

4 minutes ago, parabola said:

Maybe if the interaction with defence buffs was reigned in it would leave space to boost it's interaction with other effects. It could then be a more worthwhile choice for a greater range of sets.

My guess is maybe the power could be made to only boost click defense powers for as long as power boost is active, like it does with defense toggles. But that’s probably not how the coding works.

[WindDemon21]

1 minute ago, BrandX said:

But it's Power Boost making one feel ridiculously powerful with Time Manipulation and then Incarnates (which make lots of things feel ridiculously powerful).

 

Time Manipulation without Power Boost, awesome yes, but nothing that needs altered.  I feel my Water/Time Corruptor is equal to my Dark/DP Defender survival wise, but the Defender feels like it helps more on the hard targets (but Time helps with defenses on the way to them better).

Exactly right there, so there are already situations where it has less use, and not only that but you have to wait till epic powers to even be able to do that, when most other plays have already worked their defenses and skills around needing it in the first place. So when we're talking about one or two specific sets, getting one specific power (again, really the only reason to bother with the power) it's not that much. I'll also state how I honestly can't even think of a time i've actually teamed with anyone who uses this said combo, so there's that too. Not saying it isn't useful, but THAT'S WHAT IT'S THERE FOR.

[WindDemon21]

Just now, arcaneholocaust said:

My guess is maybe the power could be made to only boost click defense powers for as long as power boost is active, like it does with defense toggles. But that’s probably not how the coding works.

And would also be useless.

[BrandX]

4 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Exactly right there, so there are already situations where it has less use, and not only that but you have to wait till epic powers to even be able to do that, when most other plays have already worked their defenses and skills around needing it in the first place. So when we're talking about one or two specific sets, getting one specific power (again, really the only reason to bother with the power) it's not that much. I'll also state how I honestly can't even think of a time i've actually teamed with anyone who uses this said combo, so there's that too. Not saying it isn't useful, but THAT'S WHAT IT'S THERE FOR.

 

I'd say most try to pick an Epic Based on theme/concept, but this isn't to say the Power Boost Option isn't able to be equal to the concept.  I also don't see many pick it.  Maybe because it's a boring choice?  I liked Leviathan for my Water/Time and Soul for my Necro/Time.

[ScarySai]

46 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

We do as well, but we're not getting rid of until there's a viable alternative to sharing base access easily, and unfortunately that's not super simple to achieve.

Do you really have to wait it out though? It's a leaked dev command, surely - people could use the portal until the 'official' team base porter is a thing.

[siolfir]

22 hours ago, FUBARczar said:

of course they became popular, they were they only blaster with a sustain ability at that time.  The same reason why /Psionic Assault Doms were and are popular.  

Psi Assault Doms became popular due to farming with Psychic Shockwave, which was nerfed severely while Mental Manipulation was being created. I forget the old numbers, but I think it both recharged faster than it does currently as well as hitting harder. Drain Psyche - the sustain - was the icing, not the cake.

 

20 hours ago, Ralathar44 said:

Similarly ninjitsu gives a good balance of defense, self healing, endurance management, recharge, and gives the AOE placate.  If you want more protection than Regen but don't want the complete lack of self healing and utter under end drain madness of the pure defensive/resistance sets then ninjitsu is a good option.  Then you add on smoke flash..  It's basically a defense powerset for people who hate the panting and lack of hp heal of defense powersets + a get out of jail free card.  It gives the average player facing average content everything they want as a player.  Will it hold up to

He specifically mentioned the Stalker AT, which doesn't get endurance management or recharge - or run speed, or knockback protection... it's the absolute worst version of the set because they never revisited it when they ported it to other ATs to plug the same holes. As for the AoE Placate, you can get that in a pool power or as a temp and it's a mostly useless power in any case.

 

14 hours ago, Ralathar44 said:

War Mace has grown so much, I still remember when Clobber did minor damage and was a disorient only power :D.

 

You mean like Stun still does? All of the weapon sets were revisited to speed up attacks and/or remove redraw, along with several of the attacks in Martial Arts being sped up. War Mace got a huge boost because a garbage power became a heavy hitter; Martial Arts had already had Crane Kick with the same damage and recharge.

 

29 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

We do as well, but we're not getting rid of until there's a viable alternative to sharing base access easily, and unfortunately that's not super simple to achieve.

You already have the "Enter passcode..." option at base portals to allow others to share base access. They just have to actually go to a base portal to use it.

[Parabola]

5 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

THAT'S WHAT IT'S THERE FOR.

I think we all get that you are very attached to this particular combination. But don't you agree that being able to provide 32% defence, to absolutely everything, for everyone around you including yourself, is a bit much? Yes it takes two powers to do it but even tanks have to invest more power picks and many more slots to achieve defences with many more holes in them.

[Patti]

I think the command IS the thing that makes the portals do that.   Disable the command and the whole base sharing thing shuts down too.

[Bossk_Hogg]

20 hours ago, Monos King said:

@Ralathar44 @summers

What are you two on about? It is exactly because of the DPS centric meta that the debuff sets are most valued at the end game. They make you do more damage. They mitigate damage. I can't even imagine how you think any of your points thus far would make empathy a better end game option than something like cold. End Game enemies can one shot the unprepared, or kill so fast it might as well be. Mitigation is king there. Heals are touch-ups.

 

Suggesting that the purple patch renders -res less useful is also just silly, I suggest picking up a power analyzer in temp permitted content or running Surveillance. You can literally see enormous -res, -def, and even -dmg values applied that directly disprove the idea that debuffs aren't important there.

Math disagrees. Debuffs require application time for each mob, draw aggro, and outside of -resist and -regen, arent very impactful at +4 content. The purple patch hits them disproportionately harder than buffs. At +0, Darkest Night floors to hit, and compares decent to the various defense shields. At +5, you may as well have taken maneuvers. If you understand how the mechanics work rather than going with your gut "feels" this really isnt up for debate.

 

A portion of certain defenders/corrupters debuffs (-defense, -tohit, recharge, and -speed)  need to be unresistable to fix this.  Debuffs to damage, resist and regen (due to the massive numbers) are fine.

[Jimmy]

18 minutes ago, siolfir said:

You already have the "Enter passcode..." option at base portals to allow others to share base access. They just have to actually go to a base portal to use it.

True, but there's no good way of saving those bases in-game.

[Bossk_Hogg]

22 hours ago, macskull said:

It's like the players who insist Sentinels are fine because they like playing them.

Sentinel mediocrity, much like the debuff vs buff disparity, is backed by math and the game mechanics. Either a portion of certain debuffs needs to be unresistable for defenders/corrupters, or buffs need to have less impact vs higher level targets.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Bossk_Hogg

[siolfir]

1 minute ago, Jimmy said:

True, but there's no good way of saving those bases in-game.

If enterbasefrompasscode is disabled but sgpasscode isn't, then people have to go to a base portal (or base teleporter) to use a base and it can still be set quickly and easily with a slash command. Since the issue described was sharing base access, people wouldn't have to change what they are already doing to share them, but entering the base would be limited. Which I thought was the intended goal.

 

If you want to disable both commands, then hide sgpasscode behind an interface labeled "Set base passcode..." just like "Enter passcode..." already is.

[Bossk_Hogg]

21 hours ago, Monos King said:

@Ralathar44 @summers

What are you two on about? It is exactly because of the DPS centric meta that the debuff sets are most valued at the end game. They make you do more damage. They mitigate damage. I can't even imagine how you think any of your points thus far would make empathy a better end game option than something like cold. End Game enemies can one shot the unprepared, or kill so fast it might as well be. Mitigation is king there. Heals are touch-ups.

 

Suggesting that the purple patch renders -res less useful is also just silly, I suggest picking up a power analyzer in temp permitted content or running Surveillance. You can literally see enormous -res, -def, and even -dmg values applied that directly disprove the idea that debuffs aren't important there.

Defense is heavily resisted so you should see how mediocre they are compared to tactics. Reistance and damage debuff arent and remain relevant. Look at the values on to-hit. They're pathetic compared to the impact similar tier defense buffs.

[Floridian]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

We do as well, but we're not getting rid of until there's a viable alternative to sharing base access easily, and unfortunately that's not super simple to achieve.

While It does get abused, I'm not terribly mad at it.  I like having a macro bar with different bases that I can click on to visit with people, etc.  It *does* make any level one character with a macro capable of being a better teleporter than someone who has purchased *multiple* powers in power pool.  Especially with there being a hard limit to the number of pools that you can choose from, (and with everyone dipping into weave, combat jumping, hover, maneuvers, etc. etc...) I would just like to see the base macro's current position in the travel meta used as a reference point in rebalancing the teleportation power set.  As said above, it's all theme and no mechanic.