Please limit DFB/DiB runs.

[Neural]

DFB doesn't need to be nerfed into disuse.  The spawn things that run around the Hydra could hit a bit harder, but that's mostly a cosmetic change, because right now, about the only thing they do is take up more processor/graphics time.

 

The only area that DFB might actually affect things is with the name reservation policy which says that if you have a character between level 1 and 5, you have to log in once every 30 days to keep that characters name.  One single DFB run moves a toon from that bracket into the "log in once every 90 days" section.

Not that I am taking a position for or against how they want to keep people from hoarding names, but with a double XP booster and one DFB run, you can put 10 minutes and pretty much invalidate the reasoning behind the different levels for the name reservation system they put in.

 

It's a free game.  Not only does it cost nothing, it's not run by corporate overlords who are trying to squeeze numbers out every quarter to please investors etc.  No one is "losing" the game because one person got leveled faster.  The only reason for nerfing such things is performance issues.

 

There are a lot of new players, but there are a number of veterans who are still joining, and DFB allows them to get a toon they used to have back up to the level they remember, if they choose to do so.

 

I run DFB for that reason, and also to try out different power sets and classes without having to waste as much time running the lower level missions.  It's also great for working off XP debt.

[Solvernia]

it's not run by corporate overlords

 

joke's on you, we've had corporate overlords for three weeks now

 

 

fortunately they are benevolent overlords

[SteelRat70]

Many of you are banging the drum of "options".  The level of DFB grouping requests is such that for those of us who prefer not to run the same missions ad nauseum, options are limited.  Last night (GMT) on TorchBearer, I spent 15 minutes trying to even get a single bite for a sub level 15, non DFB team.  The one guy who joined, was located in the Sewer Network and promptly left once I told him the group was not for DFB.

 

I have created a channel on TorchBearer called "NoDFB".  If any of you want to run (especially sub lvl 20) teams that have nothing to do with the dispatch of giant snot balls in a pool of green slime or your spandex dry cleaning bills are getting beyond manageable, join that channel and see if we can get a large enough pool of like minded people together.

[Vanden]

I think it'd be great if there was a culture shift in the whole thing, if people would just queue for for DFB and set their LFG tags rather than spamming LFG with these messages. Those would work, if only people would use them. Then the LFG channel wouldn't be so spammy.

The issue there is that DfB has a minimum of 4 players, and the queue starts the trial as soon as it hits that minimum. Pre-forming guarantees a full team (and some control over what kind of a team you're forming, not that team composition is a huge deal in DfB). You can always choose to join in-progress events, I guess, but that's just another level of "but if I do it this way, I get exactly what I want/expect" you're asking people to ignore.

It doesn't, though. It waits for a little while even after finding enough to start to give extra people a chance to get in.

[Agorazium]

I understand the concerns that people who power level will have a lesser understanding of their character...

 

but so what? I have had zero trouble recruiting for teams, and I play at bizzaro hours. Meanwhile, I see the same people spamming "LF anything other than DFB" in the LFG channel for hours. It only takes a little bit of initiative to play the game in the way that I want to, with people that I want to play with.

[coggy]

Much as i do not want to dfb  i dont think there is a need to nerf it , as said above its a private server and a game .

If people want to PL to 50  and not do the content its up to them  and as experienced players i think we must make allowances for those that are excited  or misguided  dependent on your viewpoint .

Maybe create a channel  for  them  to keep  the lfg channel clearer ?

As DXP is free albeit with no inf reward  i found the  salvage prices in AE currently off set  the inf loss so i solo`d  till 19  then i have  found  it  easy enough to get a team , i just add  not dfb in my lfg request .

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

I get the OP's point and I have a great deal of sympathy with it, but I also have a lot of sympathy with the idea that preventing people playing the game they want is just wrong so I'm kind of torn.

 

But, I strongly suspect that very soon, there will be a real tail-off in numbers, and things will level out significantly. The novelty of having our city back again will wear off, especially for those for whom this is "just another game" and don't have the emotional investment in it that many of us do.

 

This in turn will mean that those who stick around will want to explore the content and play the game as intended, using DFB and DIB for quick level boosts on occasion. Thus the perceived problem will resolve itself in short order. But look on the bright side, those who want to run the content can, and there are plenty who are very happy to do so! When you're off in Kings Row, chasing down villains and righting wrongs, it doesn't matter what the others are doing.

[Crysis]

All I can say is that on Everlasting at least, if you want to do anything *other* than DFB/DiB before 22, you're out of luck, generally.

 

DiB may not be the same sort of xp-fest, I'm just sick of seeing nothing but those in LFG, and not being able to get a group. It took an hour for me to get a group yesterday, ridiculous for a Defender on a Saturday.

 

And then today my groups were full of "DFB Babies" who didn't know how to play.

 

Sigh.  Do you know how to make friends?  If so, make your own team to do what you want them to do.

 

Unless everyone gets sick of you trying to force them to do ONLY what YOU want to do.  In which case I think we have identified the real issue here.

 

There’s so many of your type on these boards.  Just like in the old Live instance of this game.  And the devs will listen to you because they, in general, want you to play the way THEY coded the game to work.  They don’t like it, and take it personally, when we find ways to avoid doing it JUST the way they wanted us to.  It was this mentality that led to a never ending path of nerfs in the old game, to appease their creative egos and now its yours, and other players like you, who are destined to try and enforce your views on everyone else.

 

Go play how you want.  I will do likewise.  You won’t see me mounting a campaign to FORBID everyone from trying to play the game the way they want it to be played.  Because I enjoy all of it and consider this a sandbox, not a game experience on rails that can only be played the way you want it to be played.

 

I hope selfish attitudes like this don’t ruin this game the way it did the first time.

 

 

[golstat2003]

All I can say is that on Everlasting at least, if you want to do anything *other* than DFB/DiB before 22, you're out of luck, generally.

 

DiB may not be the same sort of xp-fest, I'm just sick of seeing nothing but those in LFG, and not being able to get a group. It took an hour for me to get a group yesterday, ridiculous for a Defender on a Saturday.

 

And then today my groups were full of "DFB Babies" who didn't know how to play.

 

 

Sigh.  Do you know how to make friends?  If so, make your own team to do what you want them to do.

 

Unless everyone gets sick of you trying to force them to do ONLY what YOU want to do.  In which case I think we have identified the real issue here.

 

There’s so many of your type on these boards.  Just like in the old Live instance of this game.  And the devs will listen to you because they, in general, want you to play the way THEY coded the game to work.  They don’t like it, and take it personally, when we find ways to avoid doing it JUST the way they wanted us to.  It was this mentality that led to a never ending path of nerfs in the old game, to appease their creative egos and now its yours, and other players like you, who are destined to try and enforce your views on everyone else.

 

Go play how you want.  I will do likewise.  You won’t see me mounting a campaign to FORBID everyone from trying to play the game the way they want it to be played.  Because I enjoy all of it and consider this a sandbox, not a game experience on rails that can only be played the way you want it to be played.

 

I hope selfish attitudes like this don’t ruin this game the way it did the first time.

 

Agreed.

 

What a lot of folks don’t get is this:

 

1. A lot of vets have done the sub level 20 stories to death. They are not going to do them again.

If DFB is needed they will just move onto the next thing that lets them skip the first boring 20 levels. So folks who incapable of forming their own teams (which I find ridiculous) still won’t have them in the pool of people to team with.

 

2. Some folks are like me: We get to 50, IO out and the. Go back and use Ouroboros or do the lower level refs at 50.

 

You’re not going to be teaming with these folks ever. Also complaining about it taking 15 minutes to find a team is a joke when you have the ability to form your own team at anytime.

 

Here’s a hint: the folks doing dfb would never have teamed with you in the first place.

 

[DSorrow]

Agreed.

 

What a lot of folks don’t get is this:

 

1. A lot of vets have done the sub level 20 stories to death. They are not going to do them again.

If DFB is needed they will just move onto the next thing that lets them skip the first boring 20 levels. So folks who incapable of forming their own teams (which I find ridiculous) still won’t have them in the pool of people to team with.

 

2. Some folks are like me: We get to 50, IO out and the. Go back and use Ouroboros or do the lower level refs at 50.

 

You’re not going to be teaming with these folks ever. Also complaining about it taking 15 minutes to find a team is a joke when you have the ability to form your own team at anytime.

 

Here’s a hint: the folks doing dfb would never have teamed with you in the first place.

 

This, pretty much. Back at the end of official server era, I always PL'd my characters to 22 to have access to some proper enhancements and I'm doing pretty much the same now. One run of DFB to get to lvl 10 and have more than two powers, then to Hollows or Kings Row, but I suspect it won't take too many alts for me to get to a point where I just skip to 22 as fast as possible because you don't really have too many progression routes sub 20.

 

When it comes to teams, I've so far run two characters to 40+ and it has never taken me more than 10 minutes to gather a full team for whatever I want to do, provided I take the initiative and start the team myself. Social anxiety is a crappy excuse for not doing this especially if you'd be willing to join someone else's team because you don't have to be an outgoing person to start a team. When I lead a team, sometimes I barely interact with anyone beyond inviting them to the team and sometimes I'll join in the chatter, but I know for sure you can hold the star and be quiet if that's what you want to do. Then the only difference between leading the team and joining one is that you'd set the mission once every 15 minutes and occasionally replace a teammate who leaves.

[Crysis]

 

 

You’re not going to be teaming with these folks ever.

 

-SNIP-

 

Here’s a hint: the folks doing dfb would never have teamed with you in the first place.

 

That’s actually the root issue.

 

The “everyone needs to play what I want and how I want” players and posters really are struggling with interpersonal relationships in the virtual world.  They believe that they should be able to log in and immediately have a bunch of people willing to play with them, doing the content they want to do and performing it the way they want them to as well.  In short, the world revolves around them in their mind and it’s very disappointing to learn that they can’t force all other players to conform to their wishes.  Thus they insist the developers force their will on the rest of us.

 

The real issue is self-centeredness.  Not leveling speed/rewards/powers/whatever.

[Grand Architect]

At the end of the day it looks like people just need to bite the bullet and form the team themselves. Too many just cry out LFT rather then LFM all the time then come here to complain they can't find anyone to team with and everyone is only doing DFB or what every is popular at the time.

[_NOPE_]

Everyone wants to be in a team, but nobody wants to be a leader... hmmmm....

[Solvernia]

Actually no guys I changed my mind we need to delete DFB immediately

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If "DO EXACTLY AS I SAY OR I WILL KICK YOU" is the first thing newbies see when they start to play, then there is definitely a problem.

[_NOPE_]

Yeah... um... as soon as I got a mandate from the team leader like that, I'd immediately drop out and sent /tells to everyone else asking them to join MY team instead.

[Solvernia]

Yeah... um... as soon as I got a mandate from the team leader like that, I'd immediately drop out and sent /tells to everyone else asking them to join MY team instead.

 

that's pretty much what happened after he left, yeah

 

to his credit, he didn't actually kick anyone, but still, folks with that mindset are going to be potentially scaring noobs off by calling people 'spoiled children' for not realizing that sands of mu is an AoE or stuff like that

[_NOPE_]

[Xoza]

I disagree with adding limits to leveling speed. All content can be experienced at max level and can still be challenging. I believe this was one of the firsts City of Heroes had. Leveling gets tedious especially with the amount of characters, combinations and customizations you can have in this game, all while trying to find something you will enjoy the most at max level.

 

Here's an example of my goal when I create a character.

- Get to level 50 as quickly as possible.

 

Now that I have that done... I can do the following without being limited or restricted based on my level or worrying about being slowed down due to one thing or another (debt, influence, enhancements).

- Experience Game Story & Content.

- Refine my build.

- Grind out influence.

- Help out and power level friends.

- Hunt for badges and accolades.

- Create quality architect content I can test at both low, mid and high levels.

- Create and experiment with a new character, knowing I have a max I can switch to if I need.

- Queue for anything and everything.

[_NOPE_]

I disagree with adding limits to leveling speed. All content can be experienced at max level and can still be challenging. I believe this was one of the firsts City of Heroes had. Leveling gets tedious especially with the amount of characters, combinations and customizations you can have in this game, all while trying to find something you will enjoy the most at max level.

 

Here's an example of my goal when I create a character.

- Get to level 50 as quickly as possible.

 

Now that I have that done... I can do the following without being limited or restricted based on my level or worrying about being slowed down due to one thing or another (debt, influence, enhancements).

- Experience Game Story & Content.

- Refine my build.

- Grind out influence.

- Help out and power level friends.

- Hunt for badges and accolades.

- Create quality architect content I can test at both low, mid and high levels.

- Create and experiment with a new character, knowing I have a max I can switch to if I need.

- Queue for anything and everything.

 

So, what I'm hearing is that you want THIS bad boy installed in the game:

 

[Solarverse]

Everyone wants to be in a team, but nobody wants to be a leader... hmmmm....

 

QFT. I have counted 10 players before requesting a DFB run, not one of them offered to start a DFB run. I put out the message to form a DFB run and filled the team in 20 seconds flat. It is funny to me that so many people want teams, but are unwilling to form one.

 

What also kills me, is when people join your team, but are not patient enough to stick around long enough for you to complete the team.

 

For an example: I was forming a Frostfire team. One guy said he would join, so I invited him. Within ten seconds he said, "You don't even have a team yet?" and then quit. I invited another player, and he instantly quit as well. I shook my head thinking, I will never fill a team if people keep quitting the team before I can fill it. People are impatient and unwilling to form teams themselves.

[_NOPE_]

I now kinda want to jump into Atlas, and start forming DFB teams FOR people, and then immediately send the full team a message saying "Great! Now you need just one more! Good luck!" and then quitting.

[gilce]

I can't see what's all the fuss about this DFB... I mean, back when the game was live, it was already a matter of grind : you had to grind to level, you had to grind for inf, you had to grind for prestige. And you had to do thiis grind on a large number of characters since testing the various powersets was a game in itself. And the game encouraged this with sidekicks. Let's be honest, very few players never joined a group  of 50s to benefit from PLing, even before the AEs. Back then, you weren't a worse player for having grouped with a bunch of 50s, on the contrary, you even could get precious advices.

 

I can't see why doing DFB would be worse than being PLed. Even if DFB players are used to a little number os skills, it's just the begining, they'll have plenty time to learn how to play when they'll be where they want to be. They may just want to PvP after all and don't  bother with the background of the game, the stories or whatever. This server has just started a few weeks ago, don't condemn players who are on the verge to get a 50 or are already since they'll have plenty time to learn how to play since Homecoming is here for long (at least, that's  what I wish for them).

 

Moreover, I'm not sure players here are real new players who have never played CoX, on the contrary, I'm quite confident most of them are vets from the original game, hence... why skipping a range of content to reach max level would turn them into real noobs or so called "DFB babies" who dunno how to play when they already know most mechanics?

 

Personnally, I run DFB (using the LFG tool, hence I'm not overflowing the chat channels) when I'm alone, when I'm not at exploring the maps to get the badges. When I'm not at it, I am playing along with my wife, or together with the very people I started CoX with, nearly 15 years ago that I met by chance here (and for this, I thank the team) and whom I carry on playing with till the game closed. This being said, I really don't feel like I don't know how to play the game.

 

There are more than 50k players here, that means ther are hundred of players's expectations since everybody has his own, and everybody 's looking for something in the game.

 

As for the "little general" who gives orders to "spoiled children"... He has nothing to do with DFB and I'm pretty sure he's be the same in whatever mission. When I have those comments in a group, I'm used to leaving, and eventually ignoring the person.

[Solarverse]

I now kinda want to jump into Atlas, and start forming DFB teams FOR people, and then immediately send the full team a message saying "Great! Now you need just one more! Good luck!" and then quitting.

 

LMFAO! Man, that sounds soooo tempting!

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

If I may offer a humble alterntive, why not simply up the merit rewards of low level story arcs to make them too good to skip. Hell add like 50 merits to the tutorial and then we will see vets running it to and help guiding actual newbs in it if they are so inclined.

 

Honestly I tend to skip all the low level arcs that offer less then 20 merits till I get bored and feel like doing solo flashbacks.

 

Hell lets give merits for exploration badges, to encourage players to explore the world.

 

Hey we can even get more creative what if Frostfire for example always dropped part to a new IO universal set that granted some meaningful resistance to fire, cold, and recharge debuffing. and if possible make it only in the actual non flashback arc, so if you wanted the set you would need to run it again by assisting someone else on that arc.

 

There are plenty of creative rewards we can use as carrots to get people to run the other low lvl content. Which I agree would be better for teaming, player learning and interaction, and make sure plenty of great story arcs get played and read through.

 

As a lore based roleplayer I encourage ways that make learning the lore and game world worthwhile even to meta gaming grinder types.

[_NOPE_]

If I may offer a humble alterntive, why not simply up the merit rewards of low level story arcs to make them too good to skip.

Now that's a DAMN good idea. +1 Inf.