Please limit DFB/DiB runs.

[justicebeliever]

If I may offer a humble alterntive, why not simply up the merit rewards of low level story arcs to make them too good to skip. Hell add like 50 merits to the tutorial and then we will see vets running it to and help guiding actual newbs in it if they are so inclined.

 

Honestly I tend to skip all the low level arcs that offer less then 20 merits till I get bored and feel like doing solo flashbacks.

 

Hell lets give merits for exploration badges, to encourage players to explore the world.

 

Hey we can even get more creative what if Frostfire for example always dropped part to a new IO universal set that granted some meaningful resistance to fire, cold, and recharge debuffing. and if possible make it only in the actual non flashback arc, so if you wanted the set you would need to run it again by assisting someone else on that arc.

 

There are plenty of creative rewards we can use as carrots to get people to run the other low lvl content. Which I agree would be better for teaming, player learning and interaction, and make sure plenty of great story arcs get played and read through.

 

As a lore based roleplayer I encourage ways that make learning the lore and game world worthwhile even to meta gaming grinder types.

 

+1 as well...

[justicebeliever]

Yeah... um... as soon as I got a mandate from the team leader like that, I'd immediately drop out and sent /tells to everyone else asking them to join MY team instead.

 

that's pretty much what happened after he left, yeah

 

to his credit, he didn't actually kick anyone, but still, folks with that mindset are going to be potentially scaring noobs off by calling people 'spoiled children' for not realizing that sands of mu is an AoE or stuff like that

 

You and I don't agree on much - but I agree that was....extreme...yikes.  Hope he doesn't have actual children...

[justicebeliever]

 

 

You’re not going to be teaming with these folks ever.

 

-SNIP-

 

Here’s a hint: the folks doing dfb would never have teamed with you in the first place.

 

That’s actually the root issue.

 

The “everyone needs to play what I want and how I want” players and posters really are struggling with interpersonal relationships in the virtual world.  They believe that they should be able to log in and immediately have a bunch of people willing to play with them, doing the content they want to do and performing it the way they want them to as well.  In short, the world revolves around them in their mind and it’s very disappointing to learn that they can’t force all other players to conform to their wishes.  Thus they insist the developers force their will on the rest of us.

 

The real issue is self-centeredness.  Not leveling speed/rewards/powers/whatever.

 

I think self-centeredness is the focus for most MMORPG players.  It's not necessarily a bad thing. 

 

Let me be transparent - I don't play DFB, and I don't PL - I enjoy the grind.  It's a badge of honor for me, but I don't expect it to be so for anyone else.  I also don't think we should try to stop PL'ing - it's a reality that's going to be in the game no matter what.  When it affects other players - then we should discuss.  I don't support nerfing or changing DFB at this point - not where I would want developers to spend their time.

 

Back to self-centeredness - for every player on this board advocating against DFB, I'm sure I can find a similar number of players complaining about AE XP being nerfed, or Vanguard Merits, or what not.  And some of those AE folks don't seem to care about the server issues it causes - they just want their XP, the heck if makes the game unplayable for everyone else.  Pretty self-centered. 

 

RP'er's play to role play and advocate for the name change policy to support time spent in toon, not the level, PVP'ers advocate for PVP changes and things that encourage PVP, PL'ers advocate for things that let them PL faster, Min/Max advocate for power changes that make them more uber, and grinders' like me advocate for more content driven changes.  It's a game - we don't play it to be selfless, we play it to be self-centered.  We aren't here to actually save the world.

 

As for people "insisting" the developers do things - I haven't seen that behavior in the OP.  It was a request.  It wasn't "do it my way or I'm leaving".  Not really clear why so many requests on this board that are made turn into people projecting that OP is demanding something of everyone else.  It's a request...right, wrong or indifferent, it was just a request.  Don't like - say so, love it - give it a plus one.  But tell the OP they they are selfish, or demanding, or insisting, or hating unless that's what they are actually saying.

 

Finally - It can be hard for people to team up.  Again, we are all self-centered, we all want to find a group that plays the way we do.  I was asking for people to team with me last night to help with my missions - no takers.  Someone finally took pity on me I think and invited me to a group that was way overpowered for their missions and I was pretty useless.  90% of the damage was done in the first 10 seconds, and the remaining 10% in the next 10 seconds.  It's not how I play.  I thanked them (they weren't rude, in fact they were very nice) and went on my way.  After asking 3 other people thru tells if they wanted to play, I got tired and gave up.  Did I take initiative?  Yes I did...How did I feel?  Frustrated (though not at any person, just in general), and a just a little rejected.  I don't take it personally, no one was rejecting me as a person, but it's still not a very happy ending to the story.  So please don't tell people that it's all in their heads if they can't get a team they like.

 

And you DFB players would be very disappointed if no one wanted to play DFB teams - so it's easy to cast stones on others because you've already got all the people teaming for DFB that you could want...

 

 

[Grand Architect]

If I may offer a humble alterntive, why not simply up the merit rewards of low level story arcs to make them too good to skip.

Now that's a DAMN good idea. +1 Inf.

 

I'd say they need to up the rewards on all story missions really.

 

[golstat2003]

 

 

You’re not going to be teaming with these folks ever.

 

-SNIP-

 

Here’s a hint: the folks doing dfb would never have teamed with you in the first place.

 

That’s actually the root issue.

 

The “everyone needs to play what I want and how I want” players and posters really are struggling with interpersonal relationships in the virtual world.  They believe that they should be able to log in and immediately have a bunch of people willing to play with them, doing the content they want to do and performing it the way they want them to as well.  In short, the world revolves around them in their mind and it’s very disappointing to learn that they can’t force all other players to conform to their wishes.  Thus they insist the developers force their will on the rest of us.

 

The real issue is self-centeredness.  Not leveling speed/rewards/powers/whatever.

 

I think self-centeredness is the focus for most MMORPG players.  It's not necessarily a bad thing. 

 

Let me be transparent - I don't play DFB, and I don't PL - I enjoy the grind.  It's a badge of honor for me, but I don't expect it to be so for anyone else.  I also don't think we should try to stop PL'ing - it's a reality that's going to be in the game no matter what.  When it affects other players - then we should discuss.  I don't support nerfing or changing DFB at this point - not where I would want developers to spend their time.

 

Back to self-centeredness - for every player on this board advocating against DFB, I'm sure I can find a similar number of players complaining about AE XP being nerfed, or Vanguard Merits, or what not.  And some of those AE folks don't seem to care about the server issues it causes - they just want their XP, the heck if makes the game unplayable for everyone else.  Pretty self-centered. 

 

RP'er's play to role play and advocate for the name change policy to support time spent in toon, not the level, PVP'ers advocate for PVP changes and things that encourage PVP, PL'ers advocate for things that let them PL faster, Min/Max advocate for power changes that make them more uber, and grinders' like me advocate for more content driven changes.  It's a game - we don't play it to be selfless, we play it to be self-centered.  We aren't here to actually save the world.

 

As for people "insisting" the developers do things - I haven't seen that behavior in the OP.  It was a request.  It wasn't "do it my way or I'm leaving".  Not really clear why so many requests on this board that are made turn into people projecting that OP is demanding something of everyone else.  It's a request...right, wrong or indifferent, it was just a request.  Don't like - say so, love it - give it a plus one.  But tell the OP they they are selfish, or demanding, or insisting, or hating unless that's what they are actually saying.

 

Finally - It can be hard for people to team up.  Again, we are all self-centered, we all want to find a group that plays the way we do.  I was asking for people to team with me last night to help with my missions - no takers.  Someone finally took pity on me I think and invited me to a group that was way overpowered for their missions and I was pretty useless.  90% of the damage was done in the first 10 seconds, and the remaining 10% in the next 10 seconds.  It's not how I play.  I thanked them (they weren't rude, in fact they were very nice) and went on my way.  After asking 3 other people thru tells if they wanted to play, I got tired and gave up.  Did I take initiative?  Yes I did...How did I feel?  Frustrated (though not at any person, just in general), and a just a little rejected.  I don't take it personally, no one was rejecting me as a person, but it's still not a very happy ending to the story.  So please don't tell people that it's all in their heads if they can't get a team they like.

 

And you DFB players would be very disappointed if no one wanted to play DFB teams - so it's easy to cast stones on others because you've already got all the people teaming for DFB that you could want...

 

See the thing is, you're not going to get the exact team you like at any time of the day at any time. The line of "your experience is subject to change" that had been used for years when developers describe their mmos is factual.

 

Sometimes the teaming will be fast and sometimes it will be slow. That's just the reality.

 

That does not mean there is anything wrong with the content that folks are doing at that particular time that you don't want to do.

 

I think folks are just frustrated with being told constantly that their way is not the right way to play, just because they choose not to be available to play with everyone 24/7.

 

MMO or MMORPG means you will be around players 24/7.

 

It does not mean that all of them, or even some of them, or even a fraction of them will want to team with you.

 

 

[golstat2003]

One other suggestion is maybe more content for lower levels (more paths from 1-20) so that we don't have to do Frost Fire for the 1121212121th time. And maybe this should be one of the constant updates.

 

But that will require the Homecoming team having the bandwidth to create new content, and I don't think they are quite there yet.

[justicebeliever]

See the thing is, you're not going to get the exact team you like at any time of the day at any time. The line of "your experience is subject to change" that had been used for years when developers describe their mmos is factual.

 

Sometimes the teaming will be fast and sometimes it will be slow. That's just the reality.

 

That does not mean there is anything wrong with the content that folks are doing at that particular time that you don't want to do.

 

I think folks are just frustrated with being told constantly that their way is not the right way to play, just because they choose not to be available to play with everyone 24/7.

 

MMO or MMORPG means you will be around players 24/7.

 

It does not mean that all of them, or even some of them, or even a fraction of them will want to team with you.

 

I want to be clear - I agree 100% with your post.

 

My only points were - all people are playing the game for their own reasons, not anyone else - it's all self-centeredness.  No one is playing the game for me...I know that.  I am also not playing the game for anyone else...

 

I think I hear folks (in this particular post - folks = people who PL part or all of the way up), tired of being told that other people don't like their playstyle, and asking the devs to make their playstyle impossible or more difficult.  And I understand the PL's frustration.  It is tiresome.  But the refrain some of those people are giving back is:

1.) "My PL'ing playstyle doesn't impact you at all", which is factually false.  It's an interconnected game.  If DFB players are spamming LFG (which they are), it is harder to find a group to team with.  It's not impossible, I know that.  It's just harder...I don't support changing DFB at all, because I remember before DFB players just spamming other channels looking to PL.  So I am fine with it, but it's an impact.  Some of those players are also pushing hard for AE XP to be boosted, even though they've been told it's bad for the server health.  Would that change to their playstyle impact me?  Yes.

2.) "If you can't find the team you want, you are stupid or socially unfit" - that's just B.S.  DFB players can say that all they want, but it rings false because they are finding exactly the team they want without any trouble.  So for those of us, who want to play differently, it's more difficult, and sometimes, like me last night, it's a fail.  Am I stupid or socially unfit?  No.  Nor am I blaming DFB players for the fail either.

 

So I find those responses equally tiresome.

 

Final thought - I ask no pity for my experience last night, it was just an example.  I hold no anger or frustration with any person, any group, or any playstyle.  Sometimes I roll a great team, sometimes I can't find one.  It is what it is - no complaints - just happy to play.  I just called it out to say, that it isn't as easy "well you must not be willing to lead a team or ask for one".

 

 

[Solvernia]

You and I don't agree on much - but I agree that was....extreme...yikes.  Hope he doesn't have actual children...

 

we had a healthy lul about it afterwards

 

[Xoza]

I disagree with adding limits to leveling speed. All content can be experienced at max level and can still be challenging. I believe this was one of the firsts City of Heroes had. Leveling gets tedious especially with the amount of characters, combinations and customizations you can have in this game, all while trying to find something you will enjoy the most at max level.

 

Here's an example of my goal when I create a character.

- Get to level 50 as quickly as possible.

 

Now that I have that done... I can do the following without being limited or restricted based on my level or worrying about being slowed down due to one thing or another (debt, influence, enhancements).

- Experience Game Story & Content.

- Refine my build.

- Grind out influence.

- Help out and power level friends.

- Hunt for badges and accolades.

- Create quality architect content I can test at both low, mid and high levels.

- Create and experiment with a new character, knowing I have a max I can switch to if I need.

- Queue for anything and everything.

 

So, what I'm hearing is that you want THIS bad boy installed in the game:

(I WIN)

 

I don't see how that's accurate at all... the game isn't about leveling and you definitely aren't done when you get to level 50.

[Saikochoro]

All I can say is that on Everlasting at least, if you want to do anything *other* than DFB/DiB before 22, you're out of luck, generally.

 

DiB may not be the same sort of xp-fest, I'm just sick of seeing nothing but those in LFG, and not being able to get a group. It took an hour for me to get a group yesterday, ridiculous for a Defender on a Saturday.

 

And then today my groups were full of "DFB Babies" who didn't know how to play.

 

Sigh.  Do you know how to make friends?  If so, make your own team to do what you want them to do.

 

Unless everyone gets sick of you trying to force them to do ONLY what YOU want to do.  In which case I think we have identified the real issue here.

 

There’s so many of your type on these boards.  Just like in the old Live instance of this game.  And the devs will listen to you because they, in general, want you to play the way THEY coded the game to work.  They don’t like it, and take it personally, when we find ways to avoid doing it JUST the way they wanted us to.  It was this mentality that led to a never ending path of nerfs in the old game, to appease their creative egos and now its yours, and other players like you, who are destined to try and enforce your views on everyone else.

 

Go play how you want.  I will do likewise.  You won’t see me mounting a campaign to FORBID everyone from trying to play the game the way they want it to be played.  Because I enjoy all of it and consider this a sandbox, not a game experience on rails that can only be played the way you want it to be played.

 

I hope selfish attitudes like this don’t ruin this game the way it did the first time.

 

Wholeheartedly agree. The problem with people like the OP is they only care about how they play and what everything/everyone to fit in with their mentality. Everyone else be damned who doesn’t agree with them.

[SteelRat70]

Some of these pro DFB responses really are golden in their bone headed idiocy.

 

Irony #1 "I don't want to do Frost Fire for the n millionth time"

 

.. but you're quite happy to run one mission from level 1 to level 22.  Over and over again.  Don't give me any argument at all about content variety, this is only about levelling as quickly as possible.  Just admit its about the XP.

 

Irony #2 "The OP is selfish and just wants everyone to play his way"

 

No, he's identified that due to a massively imbalanced, repeatable trial, the early game is dominated by one particular way of play, which indirectly makes it more difficult for him and other players to play in other ways.  I'm hoping the irony isn't lost on you.  And don't give me the crap about "make your own team", "are you socially inept" - making non DFB teams sub level 20, whilst not impossible is significantly more difficult under the current set up.

 

"It'll sort itself out as popularity for the game wanes"

 

Nice head-in-the-sand response.  If anything, the longer the game exists, the worse the problem will get.  There is already a trend that this is the preferable way to play in the early levels and the longer it goes on unaddressed, it will soon be seen as the "only" way.

 

I don't advocate nerfing DFB in to the ground, but I do think measures should be taken to encourage more variety.  Early on in Homecomings life, before DFB was enabled, The Hollows, Kings Row, Skyway City, Steel Canyon ALL had healthy populations with all sorts of options available for people to enjoy the wealth of content CoH was always so famous for.  That is the situation I, the OP and many others would like to see return.

[SteelRat70]

Wholeheartedly agree. The problem with people like the OP is they only care about how they play and what everything/everyone to fit in with their mentality. Everyone else be damned who doesn’t agree with them.

 

Please explain to me how this statement makes you the paragon of agreeable democracy, rather than exactly the sort of person you're complaining about?

[SteelRat70]

One other suggestion is maybe more content for lower levels (more paths from 1-20) so that we don't have to do Frost Fire for the 1121212121th time. And maybe this should be one of the constant updates.

 

But that will require the Homecoming team having the bandwidth to create new content, and I don't think they are quite there yet.

 

There is PLENTY of content sub level 20.  Come out of the sewers and go and find it.

[Solvernia]

[GM Tempest]

Please maintain a level of decency. Don't be rude.

[Saikochoro]

Wholeheartedly agree. The problem with people like the OP is they only care about how they play and what everything/everyone to fit in with their mentality. Everyone else be damned who doesn’t agree with them.

 

Please explain to me how this statement makes you the paragon of agreeable democracy, rather than exactly the sort of person you're complaining about?

 

Nothing is stopping the OP from taking initiative to form their own groups. It is not difficult. It only takes a few minutes to fill.  I have never once had to spend a long while filling a non-DFB group. Usually fills within a couple minutes easy. But instead, people like to complain and blame something like DFB (or whatever the next thing will be if it were to be nerfed). They think it’s better to infringe on others to fit their play style. DFB honestly doesn’t make it any harder to group up outside of DFB. Therefor, it’s not hurting those who chose not to do it. However, wanting to limit DFB does indeed hurt a large group of players.  Nothing I said is limiting a person from completely ignoring DFB and forming their own groups. They are fully free and able to do so. However, they shouldn’t be free to dictate how others play. But perhaps that concept just goes over some people’s heads.

[Saikochoro]

 

Lol...perfect

[skoryy]

The thing is, DFB was a solution to the slog that was leveling from roughly 15ish to 22.  This is where your enhancement slots start mattering, where the enemies start requiring your enhancement slots start mattering, and you're stuck on a handful of increasingly ineffective DOs to carry you through.

 

DiB starts at 15, right?  How are the completion buffs there, I can't recall if it rewarded any.

[Erydanus]

If I may offer a humble alterntive, why not simply up the merit rewards of low level story arcs to make them too good to skip.

Actually the low level arcs are already quite merit rich and for some reason people have been skipping over them and not noticing. The Hollows arcs award a total of 95 merits. NINETY FIVE.

 

Someone else in the thread complained about having nothing to do but FrostFire over and over and counterpoint to that: what the heck? Do you think after the tutorial stuff in Atlas there's nothing else to do? There's enough content in Atlas and King's Row and Steel Canyon to beat a Hellion to death with. I know in the past sometimes people would go into the Hollows and not realize that it was a 6th, alternative story path and that they could just turn around and come back and do something else. Is that still a thing?

 

Do people not realize that even if you do the new tutorial and get given the new contacts, you can talk to any of the 5 origin contacts and start their paths? Miss Azuria? Go talk to her. She still has a stolen necklace for you to find. Then at level 5 she'll introduce you to Laurence, Paco, or Genevieve who will at 10 introduce you to Hayley, Hugo, or Trevor for more magical shenanigans.

 

Personally I'm currently working on the original clockwork storyline from that range. There is a LOT of content to do in every level of the game. Some of the newer choices are more dynamically written or feeds more into the meta than the old content but with all kinds of seasoning a little of this and a little of that is probably best.

 

[Solvernia]

we did it lads

 

[WanderingAries]

I just wish all the DFB/DiB LFG spammers would stand someplace else other than all clustered around Ms. Liberty. I've found myself running all the way to Back Alley Brawler to train levels a few times just to avoid having to fight my way through that crowd.

 

I've been running to my base a few times due to this. Between the cluster___ and the mass of powers going off...sheesh.

[Qwerty MacDoogal]

On 5/26/2019 at 7:26 PM, kelly Rocket said:

Try playing through the low levels on a type of toon that *can't* solo, see if you can manage to get any teams without giving up and doing DFB.

I have soloed to 50 on all my 50s. It isn't that hard including trollers and defs. 

[Clave Dark 5]

...

 

I have no idea what people are complaining about here, I see Posi runs all the time, haven't done a DFB on my last three toons, and you could always form a team to do whatever you want the way you want out of the "crowded areas around Ms. Liberty," surely you can find one to seven more players to go with you.  Hell, stand there and say stuff like "new to the game?  Lemme show you the real content not endless DFB runs!" and enjoy your teams.

[Greycat]

Not ... sure why someone felt the need to respond to a nearly 2 year old post to say they can solo, but... ok.

[Herotu]

On 5/26/2019 at 4:53 PM, Player2 said:

No limits.  Options only, please.

I see your demand more as the question, "Why limits and not options?".

 

Limits mean that more people will be looking for another method of grinding through the first few levels - so there'll be a third Trial that gets added, and that one gets ground instead.

The downside is that we, as players, wouldn't be doing the same thing over and over again, but the upside is that we, as players, wouldn't be doing the same thing over and over again until we'd done the DFB and DiB.

 

It's not a bad idea. Limiting options is often good. Too many people have been brainwashed into thinking, "more freedom always better", when it's not. Thanks merica.