Focused Feedback: Energy Melee Revamp

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, ScarySai said:

You might have lost the 'freedom' to waste a power pick on stun, but other than that - no, this is an outright buff no matter how you spin it.

Thats my favorite part about this change. It adds for those who want and still buffs for those who don't. Ignore the mechanic? Still better than old EM.

[Troo]

15 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

Good change, needs minor tweaking but overall good change.

 

Not everyone will be happy, but those people can't be helped because they don't want things brought up to fit with modern coh.

Wow, so if folks don't agree with what you think is a good change; they are wrong, can't be helped and don't know how to play.
Just wow.

 

Energy Transfer should not require another power in order to address the long animation. A part-time fix is not a solution.

 

For folks saying look this is better, that isn't a very high bar since any improvement would have been better.

 

I challenge folks to do better than this.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Troo said:

Wow, so if folks don't agree with what you think is a good change; they are wrong, can't be helped and don't know how to play.
Just wow.

 

Energy Transfer should not require another power in order to address the long animation. A part-time fix is not a solution.

 

For folks saying look this is better, that isn't a very high bar since any improvement would have been better.

 

I challenge folks to do better than this.

No, you would be wrong if you cant see how much of a net gain this is, like I keep saying its a net gain if you never use focus.

 

If you use focus it blows old pre nerf EM out of the water.

 

They have given you a Ferrari and you are asking for an 88 ford escort.

[Troo]

Just now, Infinitum said:

No, you would be wrong if you cant see how much of a net gain this is, like I keep saying its a net gain if you never use focus.

 

If you use focus it blows old pre nerf EM out of the water.

 

They have given you a Ferrari and you are asking for an 88 ford escort.

I disagree

[Infinitum]

Just now, Troo said:

I disagree

You are welcome to, but you are wrong if you say its not a net gain compared to old EM. It is in every way - even adding moar AOE.

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

No, you would be wrong if you cant see how much of a net gain this is, like I keep saying its a net gain if you never use focus.

 

If you use focus it blows old pre nerf EM out of the water.

 

They have given you a Ferrari and you are asking for an 88 ford escort.

Exactly. This change is amazing even if you don't even use the mechanic, but if you do good lord it's so much stronger. I'm beyond thrilled EM has been fixed.

[Super Atom]

nvm bugged out for me- edit -

Edited October 24, 2020 by Super Atom

[ScarySai]

I'd like more sources of generating focus, maybe. Kinda like how energy assault can generate it as they beat on stunned targets.

 

That's really my only complaint about it, I pretty much have to use TF before every ET and the occasional power crash, randomly getting the chance to smash a boss's face mid-rotation would be fun, but overall that's really the only complaint I can levy against it.

 

Well, that and I'd really like a different animation for power crash, and the pompoms in general.

Edited October 24, 2020 by ScarySai

[Super Atom]

2 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

I'd like more sources of generating focus, maybe. Kinda like how energy assault can generate it as they beat on stunned targets.

 

That's really my only complaint about it, I pretty much have to use TF before every ET, randomly getting the chance to smash a boss's face mid-rotation would be fun, but overall that's really the only complaint I can levy against it.

 

Well, that and I'd really like a different animation for power crash, and the pompoms in general.

I think the set would do better with EF granted on BU, allowing more free form rotation. Maybe just have TF have an increased chance to generate focus.

 

though with TF's increased cast time, it's not the biggest deal to use TF first.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Super Atom

[ScarySai]

Focus on build up would be just dandy for me, honestly.

 

I intend to mainly play the stalker version, so while a minor gripe, having to TF before every PC does at times feel a bit 'meh'. It's a fairly minor complaint, though.

[Bill Z Bubba]

28 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Yep, well soloing those you should just roll a stalker anyway, no other AT will out do EM on it.

 

But for mission killing the tactic I mentioned is solid for Scrappers.

 

In ST stalkers are >* when it comes to EM.

I hate hide. Also haven't seen any stalkers pull of Werner rules ITF yet.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, ScarySai said:

Focus on build up would be just dandy for me, honestly.

 

I intend to mainly play the stalker version, so while a minor gripe, having to TF before every PC does at times feel a bit 'meh'. It's a fairly minor complaint, though.

I wouldnt be opposed to that, however i wouldn't want a nerf to dmg to get it - when TF being buffed is a good power now.

 

It doesnt hurt to use TF, and it grants on miss even so yeah, either way but I wouldnt want anything lowered to get it, cause its fine as it is.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I hate hide. Also haven't seen any stalkers pull of Werner rules ITF yet.

I bet an EM EA could

[skoryy]

Admittedly this was on an all the IOs and incarnate scrapper build, but, man, three or even two(!) shotting +3 fake nemmies?  Boy howdy, I think I'm in love.

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

I wouldnt be opposed to that, however i wouldn't want a nerf to dmg to get it - when TF being buffed is a good power now.

 

It doesnt hurt to use TF, and it grants on miss even so yeah, either way but I wouldnt want anything lowered to get it, cause its fine as it is.

True. if the trade off was a flat % of damage then no thanks, plus TF has the bonus of double EF on scrappers which is just fantastic.

[Bill Z Bubba]

40 second buff to ST damage on the em/sr brute even staying with old craptacular ET. TF/BS/ET/BS/repeat.

Yes, it's a buff overall. Yay.

Still leaves the shitty ridiculously long animation for ET in place unless you purposefully go TF/ET and build an ugly attack chain wasting power picks. Or go sub-optimal with TF/ET/BS/EP/Bar.

Ain't gonna lie, yay for the buff. Yay for more AoE. Still hate this ET change. It's crap.

[ThunderCAP]

43 minutes ago, ThunderCAP said:

43 minutes ago, ThunderCAP said:

Energy melee was a simple set, now it's complicated and also lost its chain-freedom.

39 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

It's really not complicated at all. It's extremely simple. Jump on test and give it a try 🙂

Tanks are very often leading the team and are the first ones to engage enemies, they also save their mates when necessary and must decide where to go next, therefore checking enemies, map, mission and health bars for himself and the whole team, they have plenty to do already and need (like some tank guides specified very often in the past) easy sets to really shine at their role. Complicated sets both in defense or offence (like Combo-attacks or Clicky-defenses) are not good for tanks that want to take their role seriously without getting over-stressed over it, they can't really put their brain also on which combo to use while they check literally everything more then a support (since they're also in the first line in the middle of the action and leading).

This kind of combo-set is a good way of thinking for other, damage-dealing focused archetypes, which often don't even check the enemies they should kill first and just blindly unleash damage therefore they will like to put some mind in combos or else they get bored. I'd suggest to create a combo system for those and leave tanks (and probably brutes too) with a version of the set free of such complications.

 

Energy Melee wasn't some sort of "half-TitanWeapons" and never should be imho and that comes from a person that used Titan Weapons with a tank and got fun with it (with the help of macros).

Also I find the addition of a cone disturbing, cause the cone is the most complicated kind of attack to put in a combo where all the other attacks have got a different range. The positioning problem and different range create another "absorbing-attention" matter.

I find that the only real solution is to transform Total Focus into Thunderstrike for a simple reason: Thunderstrike was never thought as a bad power while Total Focus was and they share the animation and stats pretty much equally, the only real difference is that one is aoe and the other is not. The aoe in there solves everything cause even if the mates kill your target during your long animation, you still hit the rest of the group. I'd suggest to make Total Focus slightly more damaging but with a slightly concentrated aoe (1-2 radius less? Tanks would still use it as an aoe while other archetypes would us it as an "easy-to-use-cone" kinda).

"Boring" sets have value (and peoples that appreciate it) and energy melee was one of those (which are getting deleted one by one therefore leaving peoples that like to attack with shut-down mind unsatisfied for whatever reason, tanks concentrated in everything else or peoples that simply want to relax in their mmorpgs).

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by ThunderCAP
*added the word "unsatisfied" at the very end.

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, ThunderCAP said:

Tanks are very often leading the team and are the first ones to engage enemies, they also save their mates when necessary and must decide where to go next, therefore checking enemies, map, mission and health bars for himself and the whole team, they have plenty to do already and need (like some tank guides specified very often in the past) easy sets to really shine at their role. Complicated sets both in defense or offence (like Combo-attacks or Clicky-defenses) are not good for tanks that want to take their role seriously without getting over-stressed over it, they can't really put their brain also on which combo to use while they check literally everything more then a support (since they're also in the first line in the middle of the action and leading).

Are you saying tankers cant be a tank and use an attack chain That's Basically 1 2 3 4. Or 1 2 4 1 3?

 

Yeah, you are making that way more complicated than it is.

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

It's about the flow of the animations. And this change fucks with that flow in an extremely negative way in EXACTLY the same way as the original nerf.

We have the exact opposite opinions and that's ok. I think it now flows extremely well, feels amazing and also has improved it's general game play tenfold thanks to things like power crash and TF speed up. ET was never a bother for me, even with the first nerf. It now going fast again after TF is fine by me.

[skoryy]

5 minutes ago, ThunderCAP said:

Tanks are very often leading the team and are the first ones to engage enemies, they also save their mates when necessary and must decide where to go next, therefore checking enemies, map, mission and health bars for himself and the whole team, they have plenty to do already and need (like some tank guides specified very often in the past) easy sets to really shine at their role. Complicated sets both in defense or offence (like Combo-attacks or Clicky-defenses) are not good for tanks that want to take their role seriously without getting over-stressed over it, they can't really put their brain also on which combo to use while they check literally everything more then a support (since they're also in the first line in the middle of the action and leading).

One of my main tanks is Rad/StJ, and I've never had this problem even with all her combos and clickies.  Between gauntlet and aggro auras and general mission design, tanking in this game isn't that hard.

[Super Atom]

Just now, skoryy said:

One of my main tanks is Rad/StJ, and I've never had this problem even with all her combos and clickies.  Between gauntlet and aggro auras and general mission design, tanking in this game isn't that hard.

This is only doubled by IO sets, my blaster can tank +4x8 with little effort, this games power creep saw to that years ago. If you have trouble tanking in coh, a 1-2-3-4 rotation isn't gonna help ya

[GM Tock]

Focused Feedback threads are under tighter moderation than other places.  Everone, please stay on topic concerning the powers in discussion.

[Solarverse]

Okay, @Jimmy? I am trying to make a mod to bring the original sound effects back for Energy Transfer (Now that we have a way to get the original animation back...THANK YOU!) however, it seems you guys aren't using the same files/location anymore for it. I don't know if you are using new files to reference the sound effects, or if the location for those files have changed. Mind tossing me a bone here?

[Solarverse]

30 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I hate hide. Also haven't seen any stalkers pull of Werner rules ITF yet.

Challenge accepted. What server do you play on?

[ThunderCAP]

I won't battle the obvious keyboard-lions that are and will come out. There is value in easy sets, more so for tanks. You can read plenty of guides about the value of easy sets in both defense and offense for tanks, I won't write those off for you and it really won't matter in there.

Cause the point remains: there are peoples who like easy sets, there are archetypes who need them more then the rest, just leave out the useless showing off.