Focused Feedback: PvP Updates

[Reikou]

On 10/31/2020 at 6:40 AM, Jimmy said:

•  Rampage
  • Copy of Frenzy, the Villain alignment power
  • No longer revokes Justice when purchased, instead they now share a cooldown

I know this is about PvP updates.. being seeing that this is getting split off from alignment for PvP purposes, can we please get this done on PvE side as well?

 

 

Blue side is far more active, and Frenzy/Rampage whatever you want to call it giving a full Domination bar is a massive boon for Perma-Doms to just get going.  But being restricted to red-side content only (can't even be a Rogue), really kind of sucks. I suppose the other option might be to ask for all the alignment powers to just give a full rage bar for Doms, that way you can be the alignment of whatever secondary effect you like.

 

Just a quick idea, since I see that this is being decoupled already from alignment and it would improve quality of life. 🙂

[macskull]

11 hours ago, Reikou said:

I know this is about PvP updates.. being seeing that this is getting split off from alignment for PvP purposes, can we please get this done on PvE side as well?

 

Blue side is far more active, and Frenzy/Rampage whatever you want to call it giving a full Domination bar is a massive boon for Perma-Doms to just get going.  But being restricted to red-side content only (can't even be a Rogue), really kind of sucks. I suppose the other option might be to ask for all the alignment powers to just give a full rage bar for Doms, that way you can be the alignment of whatever secondary effect you like.

 

Just a quick idea, since I see that this is being decoupled already from alignment and it would improve quality of life. 🙂

The reason these are decoupled from alignment for PvP purposes is because right now plenty of people keep a character on one alignment or the other specifically to keep a particular alignment power (usually Call to Justice) which means that if a PvP zone's population is unbalanced on one side or the other many players don't want to switch and lose their alignment power. This change at least makes them able to side-switch for zone balancing purposes.

 

I do like your suggestion, since I feel like Frenzy disproportionately benefits a few ATs while not really offering anything that great to the other ones.

[America's Angel]

Just realised that forcing LOS checks on teleports in PVP will probably remove the teleporting into cranes issue.

[Reikou]

On 11/8/2020 at 2:55 PM, macskull said:

The reason these are decoupled from alignment for PvP purposes is because right now plenty of people keep a character on one alignment or the other specifically to keep a particular alignment power (usually Call to Justice) which means that if a PvP zone's population is unbalanced on one side or the other many players don't want to switch and lose their alignment power. This change at least makes them able to side-switch for zone balancing purposes.

 

I do like your suggestion, since I feel like Frenzy disproportionately benefits a few ATs while not really offering anything that great to the other ones.

Yup, that makes plenty of sense.  Just figured since a change was being made, it opens up a low-hanging fruit QoL change for ATs that benefit immensely from the current setup of Frenzy for PvE. 🙂

[Faultline]

12 minutes ago, Reikou said:

Yup, that makes plenty of sense.  Just figured since a change was being made, it opens up a low-hanging fruit QoL change for ATs that benefit immensely from the current setup of Frenzy for PvE. 🙂

It's not as low hanging as you'd think, because there's a tangled web of hacks around those powers being granted and revoked. The PVP ones are new, so they don't interact with that mess.

[golstat2003]

On 11/7/2020 at 11:07 PM, macskull said:

Jump Pack/Steam Jump are getting removed because it is possible to chain the two and therefore never touch the ground, ever.

Holy crap! LOL

[Jimmy]

Release Candidate 1 - November 13th, 2020

 

PvP Updates

PvP Accolades

• Arena vendors now sell the following PvP-only fakkolades (fake knockoff accolades) for 10,000 influence each:
  •  Veteran
    • Combined the four +HP / +End accolades
  •  Indestructible
    • Combines Eye of the Magic / Demonic Aura and Elusive Mind
  •  Supercharger
    • Copy of Geas of the Kind Ones / Force of Nature
  •  Mind Games
    • Copy of Vanguard Medal / Megalomaniac
  •  Nullifier
    • Copy of Crey CBX-9 Pistol / Stolen Immobilizer Ray
  •  Justice
    • Copy of Call to Justice, the Hero alignment power, shares a cooldown with Rampage
  •  Rampage
    • Copy of Frenzy, the Villain alignment power, shares a cooldown with Justice
• Using a accolade will put the non-PvP version of it on cooldown (and vice-versa)
• These can be deleted when you no longer want them
• Normal accolade & alignment powers are now disabled in the Arena and in PvP zones

All PvP Zones (Bloody Bay, Siren's Call, Warburg, Recluse's Victory)

• Added vendors selling the Arena temporary powers (which are now usable in PvP zones)
  • The Siren's Call vendor still requires the zone event to unlock

Bloody Bay / Siren's Call

• Missions in Bloody Bay and Siren's Call are no longer limited to level 25 / 35 and can now be run all the way to level 50
  • Completing any door mission rewards the Veteran power
  • Completing any Longbow door mission rewards the Justice power
  • Completing any Arachnos door mission rewards the Rampage power
  • Completing the destroy / save outpost mission rewards the Indestructible power
  • Completing the plant / defuse bomb mission rewards the Supercharger power
  • Completing the kidnap / rescue officer mission rewards the Mind Games power
  • Completing the destroy / recover technology mission rewards the Nullifier power

Siren's Call

• Rotated the entire zone by 90° in order to match the city map
• Added a Free Fire Zone Helicopter to the top of the Hero hospital

Recluse's Victory

• Support AVs now spawn at level 52 instead of level 54

Pocket D

• An entrance to Recluse's Victory has been added to the Pocket D arena
  • DJ Zero doesn't approve of fighting, so if you use this exit, there's no way back to the club from Recluse's Victory - you're on your own

Free Fire Zone (PvP) Helicopter Line

• All helicopters to and from PvP zones are now connected (including new helicopters in Siren's Call near the Hero Hospital and in Peregrine Island near the arena)
• You can also use it to travel between the connected PVE zones, but only those that match your current alignment

New Arena Map: Liberty Town (2-32 players)

• A new arena map using an area from Founder's Falls
• Spawn locations have been adjusted
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

New Arena Map: Boomtown (2-16 players)

• A new arena map using the construction site area of Boomtown
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

New Arena Map: Ouroboros (2-16 players)

• A new arena map featuring the destroyed version of Ouroboros
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

New Arena Map: Last Bastion (2-16 players)

• A new arena map set in a mostly-destroyed Praetoria
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

New Arena Map: Praetorian Office (2-10 players)

• A new arena map set inside a Praetorian Office
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

 New Arena Map: Industrial (2-16 players)

• A new arena map set in an Industrial area
• The old Industrial map is now named Factory
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

 New Arena Map: Council Earth (2-16 players)

• A new arena map set on the Council Earth
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

 New Arena Map: Luna Square (2-16 players)

• A new arena map set in a generic outdoor city area
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

  New Arena Map: Dam Interior (2-10 players)

• A new arena map set inside the Overbrook (Faultline) Dam
• Minimap:

Spoiler

 

Other Arena Maps

• Fixed the minimap for Cage Match, Factory, Stadium, Atlas Park, Steel Canyon and Skyway City
  • Known issue: Most of the others are broken and still need fixing
• The arena map list is now sorted alphabetically

Powers Disabled in PvP

• All Incarnate powers apart from the Alpha slot are now disabled in Recluse's Victory
• PvP zones now obey the same rules as the arena when it comes to banning powers
  • This means that anything previously disabled in the Arena will now be disabled in PvP zones
  • Arena temporary powers now work in PvP zones
• The following powers are now disabled in the Arena and in PvP zones:
  • Most Mayhem / Safeguard powers
  • Empowerment Station buffs crafted in bases
  • Most Day Job powers
  • Cathedral of Pain buffs
  • Various prestige / temporary powers
• Complete list of disabled powers:

Spoiler

• Increase_Recovery (from Mayhem/Safeguard)
• Mayhem_Increase_Movement_Speed
• Mayhem_Increase_Endurance
• Mayhem_Increase_Health
• Mayhem_Increase_Regeneration
• prestige_InspirationGrant (Inner Inspiration)
• Cryonite_Armor
• Wedding_Band
• Wedding_Band_FB
• Mayhem_Cryonite_Armor
• Mayhem_Store_Kinetic_Shield
• Vanguard_Psionic_Shield
• Invention_Kinetic_Dampener
• Alt_LP_Kinetic_Dampener
• Alt_Defense_Amplifier_1_hour
• Alt_Defense_Amplifier_4_hour
• Alt_Defense_Amplifier_8_hour
• Alt_Offense_Amplifier_1_hour
• Alt_Offense_Amplifier_4_hour
• Alt_Offense_Amplifier_8_hour
• Alt_Survival_Amplifier_1_hour
• Alt_Survival_Amplifier_4_hour
• Alt_Survival_Amplifier_8_hour
• Alt_Frosty_Aegis
• Day_Job_Movement_Increase_Lesser
• Day_Job_Movement_Increase_Greater
• Pilot_Lesser
• Pilot_Greater
• Day_Job_Increase_Regeneration_Lesser
• Day_Job_Increase_Regeneration_Greater
• Day_Job_Increase_Endurance_Lesser
• Day_Job_Increase_Endurance_Greater
• Day_Job_Increase_Recovery_Lesser
• Day_Job_Increase_Recovery_Greater
• Day_Job_Damage_Resistance_Lesser
• Day_Job_Damage_Resistance_Greater
• Day_Job_Psionic_Resistance_Lesser
• Day_Job_Psionic_Resistance_Greater
• Day_Job_ColdNegative_Resistance_Lesser
• Day_Job_ColdNegative_Resistance_Greater
• Day_Job_DPS_Buff_Lesser
• Day_Job_DPS_Buff_Greater
• Day_Job_Improved_Recharge_Time_Lesser
• Day_Job_Improved_Recharge_Time_Greater
• Combat_Shield
• Increase_Attack_Speed (Empowerment Station)
• Increase_Flight_Speed
• Increase_Jump_Speed
• Increase_Run_Speed
• Increase_Perception
• Grant_Invisibility
• Smashing_Resistance
• Lethal_Resistance
• Cold_Resistance
• Fire_Resistance
• Energy_Resistance
• Negative_Energy_Resistance
• Toxic_Resistance
• Psionic_Resistance
• Endurance_Drain_Resistance
• Slow_Resistance
• Knockback_Protection
• Knockback_Increase
• Confusion_Resistance
• Fear_Resistance
• Disorient_Resistance
• Hold_Resistance
• Immobilize_Resistance
• Sleep_Resistance
• Arachnos_Power_Shield
• I22_MissionReward_BoonSunXiong
• The_Perfect_Eye
• The_True_Furnace
• Heart_of_a_Storm_Elemental
• Anger_Monument
• Crystal_of_Resilience
• The_Atlas_Medallion
• Super_Patriot
• Freedom_Phalanx_Reserve
• Task_Force_Commander
• Portal_Jockey
• Crey_CBX-9_Pistol
• Eye_of_the_Magus
• Vanguard_Medal
• Geas_of_the_Kind_Ones
• Marshall
• High_Pain_Threshold
• Born_In_Battle
• Stolen_Immobilizer_Ray
• Demonic_Aura
• Megalomaniac
• Invader
• Force_of_Nature
• Iron_Man
• RIWE_Accolade_Power
• GRHeroAlignmentPower
• GRVigilanteAlignmentPower
• GRRogueAlignmentPower
• GRVillainAlignmentPower
• Invention_Recovery_Serum
• Alt_LP_Recovery_Serum
• Alt_Frost_Bite_Granter
• Alt_Frost_Bite
• Alt_Winter_Ward
• Flames_of_Prometheus

 

Other PvP Powers Changes

• Trick Arrow
  • See the Trick Arrow thread
• Fast Snipes
  • No longer grant a 50% range buff in PvP
• Empathy / Pain Domination
  • Absorb Pain: -Heal / -Regeneration reduced to 50% in PvP
  • Share Pain: -Heal / -Regeneration reduced to 50% in PvP
• Temporary Powers
  • Envenomed Dagger's regeneration debuff is now Scale 1.0 non-stackable when used against players
• -Jump Adjustments

The following powers have had their -Jump component reduced to Scale 2 Melee_Jump in PVP:

Spoiler

Arachnos_Soldiers.Arachnos_Soldier.WS_Wide_Area_Web_Grenade

Blaster_Support.Gadgets.Web_Grenade

Blaster_Support.Tactical_Arrow.Electrified_Net_Arrow

Controller_Buff.Traps.Web_Grenade

Controller_Buff.Trick_Arrow.Entangling_Arrow

Corruptor_Buff.Traps.Web_Grenade

Corruptor_Buff.Trick_Arrow.Entangling_Arrow

Defender_Buff.Traps.Web_Grenade

Defender_Buff.Trick_Arrow.Entangling_Arrow

Mastermind_Buff.Traps.Web_Grenade

Mastermind_Buff.Trick_Arrow.Entangling_Arrow

Mastermind_Pets.Spec_Ops.Web_Grenade

Training_Gadgets.Bane_Spider_Training.Web_Cocoon

 

The following powers have had their -Jump component reduced to Scale 1 Melee_Jump in PVP:

Spoiler

Epic.Blaster_Mace_Mastery.Web_Envelope

Epic.Blaster_Mace_Mastery.Web_Cocoon

Epic.Brute_Mace_Mastery.Web_Envelope

Epic.Corruptor_Mace_Mastery.Web_Envelope

Epic.Corruptor_Mace_Mastery.Web_Cocoon

Epic.Mastermind_Mace_Mastery.Web_Envelope

Epic.Mastermind_Mace_Mastery.Web_Cocoon

Epic.Sentinel_Mace_Mastery.Web_Envelope

Epic.Sentinel_Mace_Mastery.Web_Cocoon

Epic.Stalker_Mace_Mastery.Web_Cocoon

Epic.Weapon_Mastery.Web_Grenade

Epic.Weapon_Mastery_Stalker.Web_Grenade

Epic.VEAT_Mace_Mastery.Web_Envelope

Temporary_Powers.Day_Job_Powers.Web_Weaver_Grenade

Temporary_Powers.Temporary_Powers.Web_Grenade

Temporary_Powers.Temporary_Powers.SC_Store_Web_Grenade

Temporary_Powers.Temporary_Powers.Mayhem_Web_Grenade

Temporary_Powers.Temporary_Powers.Alt_Web_Grenade

 

[Iron Alex]

I with a lot of people on this forum saying incarnates are not the problem. This change is more geared to the ones who do more arena, because these changes do follow a lot of arena rules. However the changes are not as game changing as i13, which destroyed pvp especially zones. 

 

As someone who actively try to stay away from all fotm build and usually pvping with things you normally dont see in pvp (ie peacebringer ect), i will adapt.. however if you really want to fix pvp.. reduce the resistance on blaster, place them back to 1600 hp cap..  and increase all the melee dmg powers except Assassin strike..

 

right now the problem is everyone just running a blaster build and trying to shoot out 1200 points of dmg in 6 sec and repeat, and melee not being able to do anything about.. except picking up some range attacks and hoping to get a heavy hitter off while the "squishy" stop moving..

 

the other thing to do is place back slow movement.. and imho as someone who loves using melee in pvp that implementation sucked bad.. so i much rather squishes being squishes and all melee dmg raising to even the playing field. 

[America's Angel]

2 hours ago, Iron Alex said:

reduce the resistance on blaster,

No.

 

2 hours ago, Iron Alex said:

place them back to 1606 hp cap

Possibly. (Or raise Corruptors/doms/controllers/defenders to match blasters).

 

2 hours ago, Iron Alex said:

and increase all the melee dmg powers except Assassin strike..

No. (Some melee sets need a buff. Some do not).

 

2 hours ago, Iron Alex said:

the other thing to do is place back slow movement.. 

No.

[Jimmy]

Posts have been hidden. 

 

This thread is specifically for discussing changes to PvP, not to request for them to be proliferated to PvE.

 

These tweaks are being made to PvP in the context of all the other changes in PvP - namely, the removal of most incarnate, temporary and prestige powers - along with the way healing in PvP works in general. These things are not happening in PvE, because none of the other changes are happening in PvE, and PvE is not balanced around PvP.

 

Please post a new thread in the suggestions forum if you’d like to discuss PvE changes any further.

[M3z]

I would say raise max movespeed on melee by 10-20% (instead of 92 maybe they move 105-110 or something) and maybe give them 2-3 ft more base range on their attack(this is just to help with the low tickrate of the server and ping more than anything).

[reib]

Make SLOW status more effective in PvP? 

[Alouu]

4 hours ago, M3z said:

I would say raise max movespeed on melee by 10-20% (instead of 92 maybe they move 105-110 or something) and maybe give them 2-3 ft more base range on their attack(this is just to help with the low tickrate of the server and ping more than anything).

This, except as a buff that lasts for ~10 seconds and is linked to landing a melee attack. That way it doesn't make just using fossilize and taunt any better, and only buffs the melee hit > more melee hits playstyle.

 

Edit: Also doing it this way allows it to limit the buff to aggressive play only, rather than also buffing evading.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Alouu

[Troo]

On 11/13/2020 at 11:47 AM, Jimmy said:

Bloody Bay / Siren's Call

• Missions in Bloody Bay and Siren's Call are no longer limited to level 25 / 35 and can now be run all the way to level 50

This should not be extended to max level characters.

 

It is possible to out level content in PvE. Why would this change in PvP zones?

 

Wouldn't this just further encourage skipping lower levels, farming to 50 and maxing out a character before heading to the lower level PvP zones? It seems that would further increase the gap between average players and more experienced PvP specialists.

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Troo

[Faultline]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

It is already an issue having max level characters playing down in other parts of the game.

What exactly is the issue? You are not being clear.

2 hours ago, Troo said:

It is possible to out level content in PvE.

It is also possible not to. There's plenty of repeatable missions at level 50 in PVE zones.

2 hours ago, Troo said:

Why would this be only encouraged in PvP zones?

As stated, there are plenty of repeatable missions at level 50 in PVE zones, so this claim of exclusivity doesn't hold. Ignoring that, those repetable missions are explicitly designed to integrate with the PVP zones, providing buffs and debuffs to players in them. Warburg already allowed players to run them at level 50, this brings the other zones to the same standard.

[Troo]

@Faultline I get it, if someone is just thinking of level 50s. However, this is level 25 and level 30.

 

There is zone content throughout the game that can be out leveled, why would the zone content be different for the zones where PvP is enabled?

 

No one is saying higher level characters can't participate in zone mini games.

 

What mini game are 50s locked out of on the live version?

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Troo

[Jimmy]

3 minutes ago, Troo said:

why would the zone content be different for the zones where PvP is enabled?

It's actually not that different. Unlike pretty much everything else in the game, these missions are not otherwise accessible in Ouro or as part of a Task Force.

 

There's also now a badge associated with these missions, so allowing them to be permanently outleveled isn't an option.

[Faultline]

The badge is not relevant. Those zones, from inception, have lowered higher level characters to match the zone critters. You cannot outlevel them the same way you can a PVE zone; the critters will never turn grey. The argument here seems to be "I want PVP zones to work exactly the same as PVE zones", but they don't, and they never have.

13 minutes ago, Troo said:

@Faultline  No one is saying higher level characters can't participate in zone mini games.

You literally are saying that higher level characters shouldn't be allowed to participate in the buff/debuff minigame.

[Bionic_Flea]

All the missions in Bloody Bay and Sirens.  The missions give small bonuses/debuffs to one faction or the other.  And the patrol gives a nifty temp stealth power.

 

The Meteors in Bloody Bay, Siren's Call Bounty and Zone Battles, Warburg's Nukes, and RV's Pillboxes are available to everyone because the zone auto-exemps you to the appropriate level.  But players are currently locked out of the instanced missions once they out level them.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Bionic_Flea

[Troo]

Thanks @Bionic_Flea

 

I think the temp stealth is going to be at the vendor, yes? It would be crazy for it to be stackable.

 

I think I'm struggling with folks skipping the game, farming to 50, spending mega funds on max builds and then rolling into lower level PvP zones.

 

I have no problem with max builds playing max builds in RV. I just haven't seen much on how these changes scale down with consideration to lower level characters. Level 15-25, 20-30, and 30-38.

 

The changes in the OP appear very slanted toward one specific group at one specific level.

 

1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:

That's how most people have played PvP since the zones came out.  It is and was rare to have someone play BB, Siren's, or Warbug at native level.

..and folks wonder why more people don't participate.

 

It's a broken top down model. Every advantage goes to the richer higher level character.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Troo
consolidated

[Bionic_Flea]

That's how most people have played PvP since the zones came out.  It is and was rare to have someone play BB, Siren's, or Warbug at native level.

 

[Jimmy]

@Troo that's just how PvP has always worked. It works best when everyone is on an even playing field, and the most common even playing field is level 50.

[Troo]

@Jimmy That totally makes sense for RV and level 50 Arena.  It just doesn't make the same sense for the other zones. Why make the changes to the other zones at all then? (rhetorical)

[Jimmy]

@Troo I'm not sure you're quite understanding - and I'm going to request that you drop this particular topic for the moment as it's taking over this thread, and isn't actually pertinent to the changes being made to PvP.

[Iron Alex]

17 hours ago, M3z said:

I would say raise max movespeed on melee by 10-20% (instead of 92 maybe they move 105-110 or something) and maybe give them 2-3 ft more base range on their attack(this is just to help with the low tickrate of the server and ping more than anything).

i agree with this.. until they fix the gap between melee and range pvp is pretty much off balanced and blasters will continue to outperform