Controversial Opinion of Population Decline

[Solarverse]

Just now, Coyotedancer said:

We'll have to agree to disagree, then. 

 

I would find an SG-mate trying to weedle me into staying after I felt I was done with the game more than a little annoying. I'd probably tell them to mind their own business and to stop pestering me over how I chose to spend (or not spend-) my limited play time. 

Well, there is a huge difference between pestering and making a one time suggestion. But I hear ya.

[Bill Z Bubba]

I've PLed the majority of my alts and play every day. Yea, I like my main that much. I'm about to destroy 24 pylons just for testing radial vs core hybrid assault. Granted, I'm apparently a freak.

[Solarverse]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

I've PLed the majority of my alts and play every day. Yea, I like my main that much. I'm about to destroy 24 pylons just for testing radial vs core hybrid assault. Granted, I'm apparently a freak.

You break the mold on almost everything you do though!  😄

[Heraclea]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

There are levels, for instance, I *hate* dealing with on a mastermind and will pass by - and pick up again in the mid-late 20s. People will play how and where they want.

When they were exclusively redside, every MM I ever tried to play came to grief in Sharkhead.  Now that they can be heroes 1 to 50, I have a max level MM.  Still not my favorite AT - not a fan of the noise, clutter, or micromanagement - but I did give the AT a fair shake, and I do enjoy bringing the character to BAFs. 

[Frunobulax]

2 hours ago, SuperPlyx said:

And what or how exactly would you even stop powerleveling at this point ? It is practically a feature of the game now. 

And always!

 

I remember plvling my kids and guildies from another game when this game was brand new with my fire/fire tank.

 

I even I used to reroll him over and over, I don't remember exactly why but I know it was to level people.

 

It sure wasn't as good as the stuff you can pull off these days (and we were only taking people to tf range), but it still worked.

 

You're right, it IS a feature! If power is gained through experience, there is always going to be people finding efficiencies.

[Marshman]

Lol!  There was a lot of "I" in you topic which means by no means is your reasoning for the population decrease in any way legitimate.  It's a 16 year old game for goodness sake.  What type of population do you expect it to have.  Plus you have a split community as there are multiple CoH universe's in existence right now.  Even if everyone convened to the same instance it'd still be relatively low population.  I say play, enjoy it while you can, and accept the fact it is never going to be the game and population it once was.  As far as the powerleveling, you don't have to go to AE to powerlevel any more so no need to bash AE at all.  In fact, dare I say, you can virtually powerlevel almost as fast outside of AE with the right mixture of team and difficulty level.  Cheers!

[Solarverse]

8 minutes ago, Frunobulax said:

And always!

 

I remember plvling my kids and guildies from another game when this game was brand new with my fire/fire tank.

 

I even I used to reroll him over and over, I don't remember exactly why but I know it was to level people.

 

It sure wasn't as good as the stuff you can pull off these days (and we were only taking people to tf range), but it still worked.

 

You're right, it IS a feature! If power is gained through experience, there is always going to be people finding efficiencies.

I would just to protest here and say that farming today is nowhere near as efficient as it was pre i5. Today is a joke compared to those days. Just saying.  😄

[FoxyPrime]

Like a lot of people are saying, new content (or lack thereof) is the real issue, not power leveling. Power leveling wouldn't feel as necessary if there was something fun and engaging to do, but as many have said, we've done all that already. It's not interesting anymore. You think being 50 with nothing to fight is boring? Being forced to level slowly through stuff I've done a hundred times already is boring and tedious, which is even worse.

 

I think the grind should be reduced and new content added (easier said than done, I know), but let's not forget originally this game, like all MMOs, was designed to deliberately waste our time so we would keep paying, but the monetization part is gone and all that's left is an old system that could be experimented with to try improving it so the game is more fun. We're all here because we like the game so the potential is there, but forced grinding is not a good way to keep us here. After all, it's a major reason why someone like me quit every other MMO I ever played and vowed never to play another.  City of Heroes manages to be in a unique situation, making it an exception.

 

IMO, power leveling is also grinding, just faster than regular grinding, but still boring and tedious. I don't want to power level. I just want to play the game, tinker with builds, and fight bad guys without an endless abyss of empty bars that fill exceedingly slowly in my way.

 

Also, a sad, but simple truth is that there will always be some portion of the player base that blows through content quickly. It happens. You cannot stop that. It's futile. But it isn't fair to the rest of us to design the game solely based on the needs of the first to finish.

Edited November 3, 2020 by FoxyPrime

[Solarverse]

4 minutes ago, Marshman said:

Lol!  There was a lot of "I" in you topic

Well yes, of course. It is very easy for readers to mistake your own opinion as you trying to state it as a fact. So I have learned over the course of the many years I have been posting forums that it is best to be very clear in stating "I" as many times as you can...because even after all those "I"'s, there will still be people who respond as if I was trying to state things as facts and tell me that it is only my opinion....even though I clearly said it was only my opinion.

[jubakumbi]

Humans are pattern seeking creatures that see structure where there is none if they need a 'reason' for something to have occured, IME.

 

Personally, the reason I come and go from playing is all based on posts like this trying to imply that a playstyle is hurting the game/wrong/not old school enough/etc.

 

It's silly.

 

it's just pattern seeking people trying to raise the boogie-man in some passive-aggressive effort to change the way people play the game, again, IMO.

 

It's fun to watch for a while, then I get tired of the small minded attitudes and I leave for a bit.

 

Why some people worry so much on how others choose to spend thier free time is really just showing how much those people want to control the rest of us, IME.

 

Have fun PLing, I know I will, even more after a thread like this, TBH.

[golstat2003]

3 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Well, keep in mind I do not believe it to be the only reason. I am just saying it is a large contributing factor. There is a reason that people are getting bored fast while others are not. That is just my observation as to why they are getting bored faster than people like me who prefer to play differently from them.

No it's really not. The utter and complete lack of content updates this year is. And that's no fault of the team. It's a small team. We're not going to see live updates as if it's a live team.

 

If those folks who are pling weren't or couldn't they simply would be playing something else, not city of heroes.

Edited November 3, 2020 by golstat2003

[golstat2003]

3 hours ago, ZacKing said:

I'm sure there's people out there who may have left because of it, so I can see how PLing might be a reason, but definitely not the sole reason. 

It's not even in the top 20.

 

MMOs need content updates . . . constantly. 

[golstat2003]

3 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

CoH is my favorite MMORPG of all time, and believe me, I've played almost all of them since I started with Asheron's Call back in 2000.  (Sidebar: I've been playing MMOs for 20 years now?  Gleep!)  That said, even I get tired of creating alts and running the same content over and over again. 

 

I don't powerlevel alts to 50, but I do PL them up to 22-27 to equip common IOs.  Maybe that will change when the new Enhancements system on Beta goes live.  And yes, I'm purposely avoiding playing on Beta to avoid burning myself out again when I come back to play the new content in Issue 27.  I'm really looking forward to making an EM Scrapper, too. 

 

But I haven't logged on to HC more than once a week or longer in the past few months, because I'm tired of seeing the same old thing.  Only significant new content -- such as the new story arcs or major AT/power set changes -- will bring me (and I suspect many others) back.  That's just the way it is now with all games, not just CoH.

 

We've recently seen updates to Conan Exiles and World of Warcraft (even though Shadowlands is delayed).  And don't forget new games, such as Among Us, that take people's attention and time away from whatever else we might play otherwise.

 

THIS. This right here.

[Bill Z Bubba]

32 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

I would just to protest here and say that farming today is nowhere near as efficient as it was pre i5. Today is a joke compared to those days. Just saying.  😄

You sure about that? I don't remember being able to hit 50 in 2 hours with just my 2 accounts back in the old days. Granted, I soloed a lot so may very well have missed the whole padding at 45 or whatever shit.

Edit: As for other games, I've got 3500 hours logged on Fallout 4 that happened when I had no CoH. And I'm eyeballing Outer Worlds, Borderlands 3, Cyberpunk and Vamp The Masq as my next buys which WILL pull me away from CoH.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Solarverse]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

You sure about that? I don't remember being able to hit 50 in 2 hours with just my 2 accounts back in the old days. Granted, I soloed a lot so may very well have missed the whole padding at 45 or whatever shit.

We didn't have Double XP back then either though. Remember having the +7 (I think it was) mentor? How crazy fast did somebody get to level 50 back then. Add in the double xp that we get now (which skews the actual xp numbers today) and your leveling would have been considerably faster IMO. Also, we you padding your teams to get +8 mobs back then? Remember, we had to pad our teams back in those days too in order to get the max number of NPCs.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, Solarverse said:

We didn't have Double XP back then either though. Remember having the +7 (I think it was) mentor? How crazy fast did somebody get to level 50 back then. Add in the double xp that we get now (which skews the actual xp numbers today) and your leveling would have been considerably faster IMO. Also, we you padding your teams to get +8 mobs back then? Remember, we had to pad our teams back in those days too in order to get the max number of NPCs.

None of which is needed today, thus my questioning that it was EVER actually faster to hit 50 than it is right now.

[Solarverse]

3 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Cyberpunk and Vamp The Masq

You had me at Cyberpunk, you won my finger with Vamp The Masquerade Bloodlines 2.

[Solarverse]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

None of which is needed today, thus my questioning that it was EVER actually faster to hit 50 than it is right now.

I can see your point. I wish we could go back in time and test it out. I recall my SG mates in those days sitting on my farms and leveling to 50 in a day though, I just can't remember how many hours it took.

[Solarverse]

3 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

None of which is needed today, thus my questioning that it was EVER actually faster to hit 50 than it is right now.

Actually, come to think of it, you might be right. I don't think the XP gain today is faster, however we need to include the 2x XP, the extreme Debt in those days, and if memory serves, it requires less XP to level today than it did back then? So there are many variables to take in to consideration.

[Lines]

Just now, Solarverse said:

and if memory serves, it requires less XP to level today than it did back then?

 

At risk of deviating into this thread's topic, I think it's the same amount of XP to get from 1-50, but some of the distribution of XP to get to each level changed at some point to smooth the experience curve.

[Solarverse]

Just now, Lines said:

 

At risk of deviating into this thread's topic, I think it's the same amount of XP to get from 1-50, but some of the distribution of XP to get to each level changed at some point to smooth the experience curve.

Yeah, I knew it was something along those lines. That's why we have @Lines!  (haha, I made a funny!)

As far as the thread goes, I consider it over. There were some really good points and really good discussions, and for the most part, everyone kept it clean. I'm going to say everyone walked away with something to think about, including myself.  🙂

[Solarverse]

Just now, Patti said:

Newt and Ma lady?

Newt?

[GM ColdSpark]

Folks - just done a little tidying here of the overly attack-y posts. Keep it civil and respect each others views. I suspect the thread may have run it's course but I'll leave it open for now - any more unpleasantness and I'll lock it down though ok? Thanks.

[Solarverse]

Just now, GM ColdSpark said:

Folks - just done a little tidying here of the overly attack-y posts. Keep it civil and respect each others views. I suspect the thread may have run it's course but I'll leave it open for now - any more unpleasantness and I'll lock it down though ok? Thanks.

It's done, @GM ColdSpark I think everything said that is positive has already been said and anything further will only be attacks, insults or strawman arguments from here on out. If you wouldn't mind, go ahead and lock this one down, thanks in advanced.

[Luminara]

Co* is a game.  For most people, that's all it is or will be.  Other games come along and they move on.  Hobbies become more important and they stop playing games as much.  Families are started or grown, and people shift focus away from games.  Jobs change, lives change, interests change, things change and people change with them.

 

A population decline in any game is inevitable, and it doesn't matter if the game offers max level on login or demands a heinous grind; if the development team never updates or if they update every few weeks; if the engine is the newest, shiniest available or some kludge of the Doom engine.  Nothing can be done to prevent population decline in a game because nothing can change human nature.  Most people don't watch the same movie every night, or even every week.  They don't listen to one song on repeat for months or years.  They take what they can from the entertainment offered, then they move on to find new entertainment.

 

We're the outliers.  We can't really expect average people to stick around like we do.  All we can do is enjoy their company while they're here, wish them the best when they leave and hope someone else can fill their shoes.