Controversial Opinion of Population Decline

[Solarverse]

I don't think it is a big secret as to the obvious population decline as of late. I have seen people leaving other servers because their population has decreased to join Excelsior and I have seen videos on youtube speak on this and I have even noticed my own SG who was once one of the biggest SG's on Excelsior dwindled down to almost nothing. I know people who say that the population has not declined and that is fine. That's your opinion, but this opinion is mine. I have a theory based on observation as to why this population decrease is happening.

First, allow me to explain to you why I am still here before I go in to why so many players are not still here. I am still here because I play alts like crazy, I level them in all kinds of ways playing all kinds of content. I keep my LFG chat window open and I join pretty much anything that is around my level. If nobody is advertising anything my level, then I start my own teams. I level to 50, then I switch to my farmer and I farm enough cash to pimp out my 50 and then I rinse and repeat with a brand new character, different powers, different AT, different experience. Only on occasion will I break out my level 50 and actually play end game content. In fact, to this very date, I have yet to play all the end game content. There is still (even after playing this game since close to the beginning) a lot of end game content I have not even touched yet. So there is a lot still left in this game to keep me interested.

Here is what I do not do that I have seen others do who are no longer playing the game. These are people I have grown close to, so this is very hard to say because I am kind of throwing mud on the people I care about by saying this...however, this is what I have seen with my own two eyes. They get a new character, they go straight to the AE building, they power level to 50 in less than a few hours, then they build to max capacity, then they do the same end game content over and over and over and over and over and over.....you get the idea. A select few had a designated badge whore character, and those few lasted a bit longer than the others, but only for a while longer as they are now gone as well, only to periodically return from time to time and most of the time it is because I call them to action because I need help with something that I only trust my SG to help me with.

Meanwhile, I have been steadily creating alts, steadily playing the game instead of power leveling and have yet to touch all of the end game content, I have yet to collect all the badges even on my main character, and have yet to burn 1-50 on a character to avoid playing the low level content. In fact, my badge character who is also my main, only has about 700ish badges. He still has a LONG way to go.

I think it is clear to me what type of player is here for the long haul as a regular, and which type of player will ONLY be showing up when end game content is released or when a new power comes out. This IMO is very unhealthy for a game. Now, I know that people who prefer to power level are going to rage at me and most likely will even insult me. I know people's reasoning behind it and how they feel about it as I have been reading the arguments in favor of power leveling over the course of this game's history. However, regardless of how they feel about it, I feel it has taken a clear (at least clear to me) toll on this game's population and IMHO is not good for the Homecoming Team or the health of this game.

Now, I know this is going to be controversial because I am picking on Power Leveling...that is a big no no with a lot of people...you just don't pick on power leveling. However, I believe this is having a negative impact on the game and I am not here for you, I am not here to pat you on the back and say that it is okay...I am not here for you, but I am here for the game and the survival of the game. I am here for what is best for the game. I for one do not want to play a City of Heroes version where very few people are left playing. Despite your arguments in favor of power leveling, I feel it has had a negative impact on this game...the original devs knew this and I believe this is why they struggled so hard to prevent it...they knew the negative impact it would have and as a company who was trying to make money, they simply could not risk players getting bored of the game because they had skipped low level content...even if they had already played the low level content.

And yes, there has been a sudden population explosion since the announcement of the new update, that was to be expected. However, I don't play this game for the updates and I don't play this game for the occasional but temporary population explosions because of them. They are here now and when they leave, it will be no different. And I know all of the reasons that people leave and come back...that does not help the overall health of the game. Games do not survive based on people coming back ONLY when there is something new to do. Games survive by having a healthy population in between those times.

Rage at me for my opinion if you like, threads like these usually see their fair amount of rage. I can take it. However, this is my opinion based on observation and it is something I would like to address before it becomes too late to address it.

Edit: All I am really trying to do here is to get people who PL and quit the game out of boredom, to please consider rolling new characters and skipping AE. I think you might find the leveling process through team story driven content a bit nostalgic and getting to know new people can go a long way to hold you over between new content. I AM NOT trying to say that Power Leveling in of itself is a bad thing or that you should not do it or even that there is a right way to play or a wrong way to play. I am saying that people who ONLY power level to 50, then get bored of the game because all they do is run end game content, could be contributing to the sudden lack of population and before you quit, I think you should give the lower levels a chance before running off. And yes, there are several reasons why people leave and not everyone who leaves is because of what I describe above. However, I think there might be more people doing this than most admit because I have seen it a LOT since playing the game again with people I personally know. Sadly, those people are no longer here to say if I am right or if I am wrong, so this is strictly opinion based on personal experience. However, if you get bored and you are somebody who typically skips low level content, just give it a try before you leave. Playing low level content just might be fun for you. And after giving it a try you still feel meh about it...then by all means...do what you have to do. And if you do decide to try it out, chances are we will bump in to one another at some point and you will get to listen to all of my bad jokes.  😉
 

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Solarverse

[Apparition]

Like it or not, power leveling is a staple of every MMOG out there now.  In fact, most flat out sell tokens to take your character to maximum or near-maximum level for real money now.  Should people be able to power level is an interesting topic, but in the end it doesn't really matter because it's here, it's here to stay, and is now expected of all MMOGs.

[DR_Mechano]

Oh look it's Solarverse blaming powerleveling again...things really haven't changed that much around here...

 

OR it could have been the fact that Homecoming went AGES without any real new content...people just got bored. Why do you think that EVERY World of Warcraft expansion loses roughly 70% of it's playerbase once it's been out for like 2 months and people are done with the content.

 

For me there just wasn't anything new that I wanted to play, keep in mind I had played on live from City of Villains release so I've done all sorts of powerset combos over the years so just playing a new combo is hardly freshening things up for me. So why'd I come back...new Update with new content. I mean it's still not the massive costume pieces update I was hoping for but it's something and with the new Enhancement system (removing TOs and DOs and just having SOs along with the whole ++ system being removed) means I don't have to wait until level 25 to get a character who doesn't whiff half the time.

[SuperPlyx]

And what or how exactly would you even stop powerleveling at this point ? It is practically a feature of the game now. 

[Apparition]

Also, people leaving the game and coming back for updates is the natural ebb and flow of MMOGs, and has been for a long while now.  There's just too many games out there for people to stick with just one anymore.  It's not 1999, nor 2005 anymore.  Those days are over and have been over for a long time now.

 

Heck, I've been playing on Homecoming since the day it launched, and yes I power level now, but I also take breaks for a few days ever now and then to prevent burn out.  That's natural and healthy.

[Solarverse]

3 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

Oh look it's Solarverse blaming powerleveling again...

Again? I'm pretty sure this is my first time expressing my personal observations to Power Leveling. I mean, I might have said something before in somebody's thread at some point...but it's not like I sit around and just dump on PLing all of the time. But yes, like it or not, this is simply my opinion based on my observations.

[Glacier Peak]

My opinion is different than the OPs. I am happy this game came back, I am happy with the Homecoming volunteers for supporting it, and I am happy with the number of players I interact with. This experience is more than I could've asked for.

[AerialAssault]

If a friend asks me, "AA, do you want to play Deep Rock Galactic or City of Heroes?", it's almost always going to be the former.

 

Don't get me wrong, this game is special to me. But it's not my most favourite game, since there's been a lot of really good games that have come out since CoH's sunset. And I also got a job, which reduces how much time I can dedicate to CoH.

 

obligatory "ROCK AND STONE" comment

[ShardWarrior]

Power leveling existed long before there was a AE.  Expecting everyone to level up and play the same game repeatedly on different alts is unreasonable.  Some will like that, some will not.  Again, this was and is one of the best things about this game - play the way you like. 

 

As for the rest, I am in agreement with others who have said lack of content updates are what drive people away and this is a normal part of the MMO world. I did want to add that I believe that the host in the linked video was correct - the game desperately needs more endgame content.  There is plenty of pre-50 story content in my opinion.  Why the focus is on low level content does not make sense to me.  I also believe he is right on the money with regard to the pipe dream of the game becoming legitimate. 

 

For me personally, I have run into a lot of people I used to play with religiously on live.  Most of them enjoyed the nostalgia of getting to play again for a few months, then moved on.  I think this is normal for most and should be expected.  It is wishful thinking a game of this age is going to be able to compete with more modern competition on any level.

[Lines]

I think the reason is a lot of reasons.

 

Is powerlevelling a reason? maybe. But if it is, it's just one of many facets, and probably not a particularly large one...

 

i27 may help for a bit, but the thing that will help the most is a conclusion to the talks with NCSoft.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Lines

[DR_Mechano]

3 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Again? I'm pretty sure this is my first time expressing my personal observations to Power Leveling. I mean, I might have said something before in somebody's thread at some point...but it's not like I sit around and just dump on PLing all of the time. But yes, like it or not, this is simply my opinion based on my observations.

The problem I have is you called it an Analysis...implying you had some hard data and figures to back it up...this is an opinion piece with a clickbaity title. It's the equivalent of a Buzzfeed article which sounds interesting only to be some randos opinion piece on actual science stuff.

[Ruin Mage]

fetch me their souls.

Also, this isn't really controversial but just silly. Blaming PLing is such a "i need to blame SOMEONE/SOMETHING" move.

[Greycat]

I'm just going to say "I disagree on many points."

 

I really don't think PLing is the evil you're describing. Honestly, I think a lot of us *have* seen the content on other levels and have done it to death. (I know I have. And I normally play through fairly regularly - it's one of the reasons I don't do much redside, there's just less variety there.) Also, don't assume "PLing" is "PLing to 50." There are levels, for instance, I *hate* dealing with on a mastermind and will pass by - and pick up again in the mid-late 20s. People will play how and where they want.

 

What we have to keep in mind with all this is that we have a *small, volunteer* team - one that's doing a damn good job, but still a small volunteer team. We saw population drops on live when we had a full time, dedicated team as well, but they came back more frequently because issues (with content, new powersets, new ATs, etc.) came out more frequently.

 

We're *just* seeing "issue 27" in beta right now.

 

Expecting tens of thousands on all the time (or even multiple thousands) for long stretches, as it sits right now, is a pipe dream. If someone won the lottery, flat out bought the COH IP for whatever NC wanted to charge for it, said "Hey, homecoming team, how would you like to make this your job," hired more staff so we could have parallel development teams and could guarantee (say) 2-3 issues a year... we'd still see drops between them. More population, sure, but we'd still see drops.

 

For me, right now, my main reason to return is RP. I'm on less during the weeknights - maybe joining an MSR or hami, or running a mission or three - but I'm guaranteed to be around Saturday nights, most weeks. SG night's sacred.

[Solarverse]

Just now, DR_Mechano said:

The problem I have is you called it an Analysis...implying you had some hard data and figures to back it up...this is an opinion piece with a clickbaity title. It's the equivalent of a Buzzfeed article which sounds interesting only to be some randos opinion piece on actual science stuff.

Here, I'll fix that title...that should make it all better.  😄

[ZacKing]

1 minute ago, Lines said:

i27 may help for a bit, but the thing that will help the most is a conclusion to the talks with NCSoft.

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

 

Wanted to add that there's nothing wrong with disliking PLing.  Not sure why people have to jump all over the OP for expressing his opinion on it like he kicked your dog.

[Apparition]

1 minute ago, ZacKing said:

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

 

Wanted to add that there's nothing wrong with disliking PLing.  Not sure why people have to jump all over the OP for expressing his opinion on it like he kicked your dog.

 

We're not jumping on him for disliking PLing.  I disliked it as well for a long, long time.  We're jumping on him for blaming PLing for the population decline.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Apparition

[Solarverse]

Well, keep in mind I do not believe it to be the only reason. I am just saying it is a large contributing factor. There is a reason that people are getting bored fast while others are not. That is just my observation as to why they are getting bored faster than people like me who prefer to play differently from them.

[Solarverse]

Just now, Apparition said:

 

We're not jumping on him for disliking PLing.  I disliked it as well for a long, long time.  We're jumping on him for blaming PLing for the population decline.

As I said above, this is my observation. I do not dictate the blame, I am simply relaying what I have seen and the commonalities I have seen with it. I won't feel bad for expressing that.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Solarverse
typo

[ZacKing]

1 minute ago, Apparition said:

We're not jumping on him for disliking PLing.  I disliked it as well for a long, long time.  We're jumping on him for blaming PLing for the population decline.

I'm sure there's people out there who may have left because of it, so I can see how PLing might be a reason, but definitely not the sole reason. 

[Rathulfr]

CoH is my favorite MMORPG of all time, and believe me, I've played almost all of them since I started with Asheron's Call back in 2000.  (Sidebar: I've been playing MMOs for 20 years now?  Gleep!)  That said, even I get tired of creating alts and running the same content over and over again. 

 

I don't powerlevel alts to 50, but I do PL them up to 22-27 to equip common IOs.  Maybe that will change when the new Enhancements system on Beta goes live.  And yes, I'm purposely avoiding playing on Beta to avoid burning myself out again when I come back to play the new content in Issue 27.  I'm really looking forward to making an EM Scrapper, too. 

 

But I haven't logged on to HC more than once a week or longer in the past few months, because I'm tired of seeing the same old thing.  Only significant new content -- such as the new story arcs or major AT/power set changes -- will bring me (and I suspect many others) back.  That's just the way it is now with all games, not just CoH.

 

We've recently seen updates to Conan Exiles and World of Warcraft (even though Shadowlands is delayed).  And don't forget new games, such as Among Us, that take people's attention and time away from whatever else we might play otherwise.

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Rathulfr

[ZacKing]

1 minute ago, Solarverse said:

As I said above, this is my observation. I do not dictate the blame, I am simply relaying what I have seen and the commonalities I have seen with it. I won't feel bad or expressing that.

You shouldn't feel bad for expressing your opinion man. 

[Solarverse]

Just now, ZacKing said:

I'm sure there's people out there who may have left because of it, so I can see how PLing might be a reason, but definitely not the sole reason. 

Exactly. I was never trying to say it was the only reason that I noticed, I am simply saying based on my personal observations that it is a contributing factor. If I were to give all the reasons that I believe are contributing factors, the OP would have been twice as long.

[UltraAlt]

Well, I'm in agreement on powerleveling. 

My viewpoint is that the end-game is something tacked onto the end of the game, so, if you power level to 50, you aren't actually playing "the game" - instead you are simply playing the stuff tacked onto the end of the game.

The game to me is about the character progression and development.

 

People can play how they want.

That's all well and good, but I think that players that want to explore the game through alting and actually playing the leveling part of the game (which I have obviously already called "the game") then they are more likely to spend more time playing City of Heroes rather than getting bored with it and looking for the next shiny object to run after.

 

So I started started on Torchbearer because a friend was playing on that server. 1000 slots on the same server! Great. Probably have 60 alts on Torchbearer at this point, but what was great about City of Heroes before the Sunset was the different flavour of each server. So it came time to make alts on other servers. I admit that have a screen full over on Excelsior. I have 4-6 on the other servers at this point. All of these are themed superhero groups. Meanwhile back on Torchbearer it's mostly a hodgepodge of character origins and sort of a slush supergroup with no real defined theme (and a couple (2) small sg's of 2-5 alts that are themed)

 

I'm not going anywhere as long as there is no P2P (versus F2P) going on and no P2W. I'll probably never be able to get into the donation window to support the game because people love this game so much. I really like the way that Homecoming is handling their version of City of Heroes. I left THE CITY because of the F2P, Farming, Powerleveling, and the Incarnate system (and related addition to subscription pay expected in order to advance ... if I subscribe to a game, that should be what I'm paying. I shouldn't have microtransactions on top of that. That's my view point; others have their own). [Disclaimer :: I have a lifetime All Access account on Daybreak]

 

So am I exploring the other servers because there aren't enough players on Torchbearer?

No. That is not the reason. I can find teams or teammates on Torchbearer pretty much whenever I want to.

Torchbearer is pretty much steadily 3rd as far as population goes.

 

Now I haven't had a lot of trouble finding teams on Reunion or Indomitable either and they are the lowest population servers.

 

Am I looking for fire farms? Oh, no. In no way am I looking for fire farms. I'm not looking to get power leveled.

When I comes down to it, I really don't like running on level 50 teams.

My sweet spot for teamin is probably between level 1 and mid 40's. 

At some point the game becomes a bunch of flashing lights and I can't even see the enemies. Just watching my power tray for recharging isn't that much fun.

Also .... there is that incredibly annoying Incarnate system ... I'm not even... grrrr... yeah... like that even

 

oh, before I forget ... Thanks for posting.

[ThrillMill]

Thrilled to be able to fly through the City once again. However, I'm not the same 20 year old kid I used to be when it went Live. Between work, wife, kids and everything else; I'm lucky if I can sneak in an hour a week. There's something to be said for playing through but AE is just a fact of life here in the City. 

[kiramon]

power leveling stopped me. from stopping in the slogs of the 30s. wouldn't have had any effect on longevity