Broadsword/Shields - The Thing that should not be.

[Frostweaver]

well, with 5 LOTG's, 3 5-slotted purples, and a couple of go-to complete sets like Gaussian's where it does good, most of the BS recharge slides down into the 2-6 second range.... MORE than short enough to do repeating buildup chains on a single target.

Of course, this is true of most sets, but few sets have quite as many big hitters to slide into a single attack chain.

[Hopeling]

29 minutes ago, Frostweaver said:

And I can tell you from experience, that Your claims that BS performance is a "Fantasy" of broadsword fans is not only patently false, but offensive as hell.

Ah, now I see the disconnect. This is not what I meant at all.

 

I've played some games where the devs use the term "class fantasy" to refer to how a character class is supposed to feel. The Tanker fantasy is to be an immovable lynchpin of the team; the Blaster fantasy is to do so much damage you don't need defense; the Claws fantasy is to tear an enemy to shreds with repeated savage attacks; the Broadsword fantasy is big crunchy hits. The mechanics are distinct from and may or may not live up to the fantasy. I'm saying that Stalkers do fulfill that fantasy, in fact, they do it better than Scrappers do.

[Frostweaver]

ahh. Okay. Understood. Like I said, too much time spent around wannabe Arcanavilles yesterday. Oversensitive to thinly-veiled insults. Peace?

Edited September 4, 2019 by Frostweaver

[City_of_Jedi]

I would like to personally thank Zerethon for his thread, and the character that it inspired me to create.  I had been wanting to try this ever since the original post, but I couldn't come up with a concept.  (I finally did, and everything's great!)

 

I do have one question:  the Stalker's Guile set has a lot of recharge built into it.  Doesn't that reduce the proc rate of any procs? 

[Frostweaver]

Proc Rate is tied to base recharge, not upgraded recharge. so higher global/enhanced recharge=higher proc rate.
That's why AS is such a beast for putting chance to hide. Because innately It has both a high recharge and a high activation time, but once slotted up it's both fast and instant cast in a fight. It procs constantly despite what the tooltip says. So much of the time whatever you hit right AFTER AS (usually your slow, 100% focus attack, followed up by two more slightly faster 75% focus attacks) gets a brutal crit and them BOOM! another AS crit and another hide.

One of the reasons stalkers are so incredibly deadly is their constant critting with their biggest attacks right after an AS.

[Hopeling]

As of i24, PPM proc rates are calculated off recharge rate including enhancements (but not including global recharge), rather than base recharge. The Paragonwiki page still gives the i23 info because Paragonwiki in general hasn't been updated for Homecoming stuff.

 

Stalker's Guile does indeed have a lot of recharge. The good news is that with PPM 5, even slotting the full set in AS will still give a pretty high proc rate, around 75%. If you don't mind missing the 6-piece S/L resist bonus, you could also slot just the proc in AS along with something else that doesn't give too much recharge enhancement, and then put the other 5 pieces in another power.

[Frostweaver]

so you mean.... just slot acc/dam in AS and then a boatload of procs, and rely on the 200% global recharge most people build into their stalkers to keep AS up with the rest?

Frankenslotting AS just feels kinda weird, but I will give it a shot.

[Hopeling]

I was thinking something like Kinetic Combat that isn't too heavy on recharge, but frankenslotting would work too. With PPM 5 and considering that proc chances cap at 90%, there's no benefit to a cycle time longer than 10.8 seconds, and since Broadsword's AS has a 1.67s cast time, that means you can enhance the recharge down as low as 9.13s before seeing any drop in proc chance at all. That's 64% recharge enhancement, and the proc itself gives I think 26.5% recharge at 50, so any set with less than about 40% recharge enhancement is already "optimal" in terms of ATO proc chance.

[Frostweaver]

Heh, I was actually thinking of Kinetic combat myself, but replacing slot 5 dam/end with perhaps a +5 common. This would still boost AS damage by close to 8%, at the cost of a little bit of movement and perhaps half a point of end per attack.

To be fair though, I don't like losing 6% s/l resistance. I might be costing myself some DPS by only getting hide 3/4s of the time, but...unless I am playing a defense-heavy set, that resistance could come in handy.

I guess it's one of those things where you really have to choose as you build. My main stalker is a bs/bio, and that 6% means the difference between 79 and 85% s/l. quite a big deal when fighting incarnate content. But on my psi/sr, it's taking 36%-42%, which is utterly negligible... and 4 slotting kinetic combat, skipping the KD proc, and slotting in touch of death chance for negative not only cranks the damage a bit higher, it also adds a bit of a bite to psi-resistant enemies like gladiators... that would be barely touched by psi OR lethal but have virtually no defense to negative, which would proc constantly.

Thanks for the ideas.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Frostweaver

[Warlawk]

I really feel like I'm missing something with all the hubbub on this combo. It's very thematic, very cool and looks like a solid single target DPS machine.

 

Yet... it seems like a fair number of sets have attacks that are both higher raw damage as well as higher DPA and would fill this niche better than BS does.

Disembowel 119 dmg 66.61 DPA

Headsplitter 159 dmg  68.26 DPA

 

Cremate 122.6 dmg 81.71 DPA

Greater Fire Sword 179.2 dmg 76.9 DPA

 

Ice melee only has one, but gets special mention for having a good cone, an aoe and the STUPID DPA on Freezing Touch

Freezing Touch 178.3 dmg 178.3 DPA

 

Crippling Axe Kick 129.7 dmg 81.05 DPA

Cobra Strike 119.9 dmg 71.79 DPA

Crane Kick 119.9 dmg 71.79 DPA

Eagles Claw 178.6 dmg 70.6 DPA

 

Telekinetic Blow 133.7 dmg 90.98 DPA

Greater Psi Blade 239.6 dmg 95.83 DPA

 

Radiation Siphon 141.7 dmg 63.54 DPA

Devastating Blow 222.7 dmg  83.39 DPA

 

I'm not saying people shouldn't play BS or that it's a bad set, but that's a fair number of sets putting out bigger hits, bigger crits and better DPA. In addition, many of those sets will offer AoE that BS just can't offer. Aside from the thematic awesomeness of a sword and shield combo, I really feel like there's something that I'm missing about why bs/sd has gotten this kind of attention. If anyone could shed any light on this for me I'd be most appreciative!

[Hopeling]

9 hours ago, Warlawk said:

I really feel like I'm missing something with all the hubbub on this combo.

@Frostweaver and I had an exchange about that on the last page which I feel was reasonably illuminating.

 

Also, the hubbub of this thread is about /Shield just as much as it's about Broadsword/. Even though BS/ is much less popular than Psi/, StJ/, or Elec/, BS/SD is much more popular than Psi/SD or StJ/SD, and the most popular combo with /SD besides Elec/. It's a combo that people are excited about, rather than either set in isolation.

[Warlawk]

1 hour ago, Hopeling said:

@Frostweaver and I had an exchange about that on the last page which I feel was reasonably illuminating.

 

Also, the hubbub of this thread is about /Shield just as much as it's about Broadsword/. Even though BS/ is much less popular than Psi/, StJ/, or Elec/, BS/SD is much more popular than Psi/SD or StJ/SD, and the most popular combo with /SD besides Elec/. It's a combo that people are excited about, rather than either set in isolation.

Thanks, I had given it a quick skim but I think when I first loaded the thread it started near the end of page 4 where tempers were flaring and Frosty was getting all indignant and preachy about a server that doesn't exist so I really skimmed that page quite lightly.

 

I can absolutely see how this Combo is amazing both thematically and in fulfilling the fantasy of big crunchy hits, I just wanted to be sure there wasn't something I was missing in regards to performance. I appreciate the info.

[Mercurias]

I like this combo. I haven’t yet gotten to 35 with it for Shield Charge, but it hits like a truck from Hide and is nicely survivable in melee. It probably *feels* stronger than it performs, but its performance isn’t nice. My only issue is that Broadseord’s animations are at times too slow, and I feel like I don’t combo chain as fast as, say, Claws or Street Justice, but Parry makes up for a lot of it.

[Glowman]

I’ve swapped stealth for combat jumping so I can pick up teleport other. What power would you consider dropping to add that? My stalker has a focus on speed running tfs. 

[Glowman]

Also what does the ideal attack chain look like for Z’s build look like?

[DreadShinobi]

I have a fiery melee / shield stalker, lvl 50, but currently just running on SOs gathering a significant amount of dust. Just wondering if I made a mistake with fiery melee and should reroll? I like that the has some decent aoe, and a less resisted damage type than lethal, but from what I understand the set isn't all that great for stalkers as the fire dots don't crit? 

 

What are the good alternatives to a broadsword stalker that uses shield def? I've never really care for the elec/shield hype. I also already have a psi/shield scrapper that I love but wouldn't want to repeat the combo. I understand broadsword is strong but would like to see how it's competitive with other stalker primaries with shield def.

Edited September 26, 2019 by DreadShinobi

[Hopeling]

Fiery Melee is a great set. Shield pairs well with almost anything, not just Broadsword.

[Haijinx]

9 hours ago, Hopeling said:

Fiery Melee is a great set. Shield pairs well with almost anything, not just Broadsword.

Fire should be paired with Fire though

 

Because nothing is sneakier than someone on fire. 

[Glowman]

Loving the build! Hit 50, but I'm still struggling to get the attack chains correct. Could anyone post a screenshot/describe how they have their keys/attacks mapped? Do you go across 1-2-3? Do you use macros that trigger multiple attacks? Keybinds? All of the above?

 

It would really help me out. Thanks!

[Gulbasaur]

On 9/27/2019 at 10:38 PM, mikeconqueso said:

Loving the build! Hit 50, but I'm still struggling to get the attack chains correct. Could anyone post a screenshot/describe how they have their keys/attacks mapped? Do you go across 1-2-3? Do you use macros that trigger multiple attacks? Keybinds? All of the above?

 

It would really help me out. Thanks!

Honestly, there isn't much of one. Parry when it comes up, AS when it pops, Build Up when it refreshes and otherwise I just bash at things as they come off timer, saving my T9 for my guaranteed crits. If that's not up, I use the knockdown attack or fireball from the ancillary pool because if you can't crit hard, you might at well crit wide.

 

I have my lower damage stuff on 123 and my higher stuff on 45 with the arc on 6. 7 is shield charge, 8 is fireball (ctrl+8 is pyronic judgment aka big fireball). 9 and 0 are utility stuff like mystic ward, because I like having quick access to them.

 

Ctrl+number uses your second tray, so I bound crtl+1 to Build Up as that's pretty handy.

 

I have my toggles in a separate tray as a sidebar so I don't unclick them by accident - I use keys for most attacks but click on some powers because life is short and the game is slow enough that you can do that.

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Gulbasaur

[Sensor]

First off - let me state that I’m absolutely thrilled with this build. Souls on Excelsior, 44 atm fully attuned and chopping stuff into cole slaw. Magic origin, BS/SD/Soul who’s back story is a Hero who has been bestowed a magical sword that collects the souls of the haunted and villainous evildoers, storing it permanently into his power, shield, and abilities.

 

question: I’ve currently got Assassins Mark ATO placed into Hack. I see the proc pop up on the screen all the time, especially with shield charge. However, despite the proc notification after a shield charge, build up is still on CD. 
 

Anyone else having this problem? 

[Sensor]

On 9/27/2019 at 5:38 PM, Zer0 Hour said:

Loving the build! Hit 50, but I'm still struggling to get the attack chains correct. Could anyone post a screenshot/describe how they have their keys/attacks mapped? Do you go across 1-2-3? Do you use macros that trigger multiple attacks? Keybinds? All of the above?

 

It would really help me out. Thanks!

Zer0 Hour, my keybinds are:

 

R: Build Up

Q: Assassins Strike

Shift+Q: Hack

E: Disembowel

Shift+E: Head Splitter

4: Slice

1: Parry

2: Moonbeam
C ; Soul Grasp (Hold) 

3: Shield Charge

F: Shadowmeld

G: Active Defense

Shift+G: One With the Shield

Auto: Hasten
Mouse Button 4: Hover

Shift+Mouse button 4: Afterburner

Mouse button 5: Fly

 

I am recalling from memory so I may have missed something. Hope this helps!

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Warstalker

[Frosticus]

33 minutes ago, Warstalker said:

 

 

Anyone else having this problem? 

yes.

I frequently see the notification on screen but BU doesnt refresh.

sav/shield -t4d

 

I was under the suspicion that they was a hidden cooldown, but that doesn't seem to be the case as other times it pops on every single attack given how many aoes sav/shield/mu has.

 

It may be related to shield charge specifically?

 

[Sensor]

1 hour ago, Frosticus said:

I was under the suspicion that they was a hidden cooldown, but that doesn't seem to be the case as other times it pops on every single attack given how many aoes sav/shield/mu has.

 

It may be related to shield charge specifically?

 

I thought the same thing, and even tried using it right after the notification to no avail.

 

perhaps Shield Defense is still hard coded as a Tank/Brute/Scrap set, thus not registering the proc as it’s not a “stalker” power? 

[Microcosm]

7 hours ago, Warstalker said:

I thought the same thing, and even tried using it right after the notification to no avail.

 

perhaps Shield Defense is still hard coded as a Tank/Brute/Scrap set, thus not registering the proc as it’s not a “stalker” power? 

I believe it's because shield charge is technically a pet. This happens frequently with waterspout for the same reason, where waterspout will proc it but nothing happens. I noticed when this is the case the flavor text is a different color (orange instead of red I think) than when it procs off of a normal attack.