Weekly Discussion 80: More Hard Mode or New Zones & Missions?

[Saikochoro]

After reading some of the suggestions I thought I’d chime in again. I am all for new content and harder mode options. 
 

However, I am completely against anything that is not optional. So, nerfing IOs or adding buffed enemies in various factions to combat defenses, etc. I’m fully against those solutions because it takes options away from players rather than giving them options. It forces all players to play by the new rules rather than only the players that want to. 
 

So, any new difficulty addition should be an optional setting that can be freely chosen by the individual or team leader. Give more notoriety options. Give radio/contact missions the flashback options to increase difficulty. But do not place something in the game that is a universal increase in difficulty that the player cannot opt out of.

Many people enjoy being a super than can take on hordes of enemies. Many people enjoy the difficulty level the way it is now.  Some people even think it is too difficult as is. The answer is not to remove options, but to give more options. The key word though is options.  

[chi1701]

Could simple solution be as simple having the ability to make custom difficulty for extra rewards based on the debuff applied to the team? -res more influence, -def higher incarante thread drops, -damage for recipes etc

 

Idea is tailoring difficulty based on who is in the team, -def can be overcome with forcefields, -resis sonic etc

Edited December 9, 2020 by chi1701

[ForeverLaxx]

13 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

For example, IIRC it should be possible to add Zoombies to vahz missions if they really wanted to. Something as simple as that can shake things up and spice up old content.

Adding new critters to existing mobs is one thing, but I know that most of the enemy factions are only workable in the level ranges they were designed for. Even the "all-levels" types like Arachnos start replacing critter types with new ones as they increase in level because many of the older, lower level enemies just do not scale properly past a certain point. At least, I seem to recall this being said by the original Dev team way back in the beforetimes when players were asking for "harder content" back then.

 

13 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

If there were different problems with different solutions, you'd see a lot of different builds and strategies.

But what is actually possible in the game engine? We have "annoyance mobs" already like Sappers, Engineers, Medics, etc that can be handled by slapping them with a Mez first, but they're often only LT or Minion class and just get deleted with the rest of the spawn. You'd have to propose some kind of enemy that can't be dealt with on raw offense or defense values alone and I'm not convinced that the CoH combat engine would support anything like this. The closest we really get to a "puzzle" enemy are the ones that go invulnerable until you click something or stand somewhere while getting swarmed. We don't have facing in the traditional sense, our crowd control is very binary, and nearly every attack an opponent has will have some kind of flag to defend against.

 

Something would have to change with the underlying systems to create workable "puzzle enemies" and I just don't really see that as happening anytime soon, if at all, so I have to look at this from the perspective of "add new enemies (that follow the same rules we already use, which makes them subject to the same Tankmage Problem), and/or scale current enemies beyond what they're probably designed for" and I don't think that's a solution either.

 

All I can see working, from how I understand the CoH combat and mission system to function, is the creation of entirely new mobs or factions that are designed to be tackled by people pushing defense and dps caps... and I personally don't think that's healthy for the game either.

 

To me, to make the game harder, IO Sets and Incarnates need to be tuned, but that ship will probably never sail at this point.

[Galaxy Brain]

@ForeverLaxx, simple: certain enemies have a toggle power that grants decent regen and resistance to all damage that gets shut off when mezzed. 

 

We even have an alternate LT class called Sniper that is super super underused, and could possibly be tweaked.

[Darkneblade]

Survival or tower defence based mods could also be cool. Examples are already there with zombie apocalypse and rikti invasion. But they are super weak so they are eliminated after 2 seconds. Something like wave 1 wave 2 etc. Gets stronger as time passes. Maybe scaled to your current team size.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Darkneblade

[Black Zot]

26 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

@ForeverLaxx, simple: certain enemies have a toggle power that grants decent regen and resistance to all damage that gets shut off when mezzed. 

 

We even have an alternate LT class called Sniper that is super super underused, and could possibly be tweaked.

 

That just creates a "bring this AT or fail the mission" scenario.  Which invalidates the main selling point/design goal of the game: that you can just grab anyone and roll out.

[Galaxy Brain]

10 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

 

That just creates a "bring this AT or fail the mission" scenario.  Which invalidates the main selling point/design goal of the game: that you can just grab anyone and roll out.

Basically every set sans fire blast has a dedicated mez power, and tons of powers have mez as a side effect. 

 

The opposite is sort of true now where mez is very undervalued.

[Black Zot]

1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Basically every set sans fire blast has a dedicated mez power,

Most of which hit like wet noodles, IF they hit at all.

 

1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:

and tons of powers have mez as a side effect. 

Mainly at such a low mag your "gimmick mob" would shrug it off.

 

Mez (and the need for it) isn't a slider, no matter how much you try to pretend it is.  It's an on-off switch; either it's working or it's not, and either you need it or you don't, and if you run into a situation where you suddenly need a hold or stun but your powerset only has a trash-tier entry in that category (read: most powersets that aren't dedicated control sets, and even some that are), odds are you skipped it and now you're screwed.  The game doesn't need more Hamidons, regardless of scale.  And it doesn't need more "squeeze this into your build" taxes, either.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Black Zot

[DSorrow]

1 hour ago, Black Zot said:

 

That just creates a "bring this AT or fail the mission" scenario.  Which invalidates the main selling point/design goal of the game: that you can just grab anyone and roll out.

I don't think what's being proposed is making the enemies impossible to beat without mez, but rather making enemies where something other than damage could be the best solution for a change. So, basically diversifying the solution set of "bring X to make this mission faster" from the current X = Damage to X = Damage or Mez. 

[Galaxy Brain]

49 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

Most of which hit like wet noodles, IF they hit at all.

That's just not true! A set like Super Strength has a bunch of damage + mez effects to boot.

49 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

 

Mainly at such a low mag your "gimmick mob" would shrug it off.

This very much depends on the mob. If they had 0 or even Negative mez protections this would be a non issue.

 

49 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

 

Mez (and the need for it) isn't a slider, no matter how much you try to pretend it is.  It's an on-off switch; either it's working or it's not, and either you need it or you don't, and if you run into a situation where you suddenly need a hold or stun but your powerset only has a trash-tier entry in that category (read: most powersets that aren't dedicated control sets, and even some that are), odds are you skipped it and now you're screwed.  The game doesn't need more Hamidons, regardless of scale.  And it doesn't need more "squeeze this into your build" taxes, either.

It is an on-off switch where at a certain lvl of self or group defense it becomes unnecessary, and its often why those mez powers in attack sets are skipped as the AT's that get them often:

 

A) Have enough personal defense to not need it

B) Have enough raw damage that they can just defeat mobs in the time it takes to animate the mez

C) Have complimentary buff/debuff to emulate the above

 

Outside of specific mez powers that help with actual crowd-control, the utility of Mezzing is kind of at the wayside in today's game. Giving it some use like with Hami in a small scale could open up some creative encounters.

 

 

30 minutes ago, DSorrow said:

I don't think what's being proposed is making the enemies impossible to beat without mez, but rather making enemies where something other than damage could be the best solution for a change. So, basically diversifying the solution set of "bring X to make this mission faster" from the current X = Damage to X = Damage or Mez. 

 

Exactly this! I'm not suggesting "this enemy is invincible until you stun it"; I'm suggesting "this enemy takes 50% less damage unless you stun it, then it takes 50% more damage". You can still muscle through them, but the more effective method would be to mez first, similar to other games where you have enemies that turtle up unless you do something first.

[Black Zot]

5 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

That's just not true! A set like Super Strength has a bunch of damage + mez effects to boot.

Kinda hilarious that you'd pick Super Strength, of all sets, being as its damage is almost entirely wrapped up in a couple of active powers (one of which has a CHANCE to mez) and a crashing buff.  SS's dedicated mez button explicitly does very little damage,  has the usual accuracy problems associated with AoE mez, and tends to be skipped as it sends targets wandering out of reach when it DOES connect.  All you did was prove my point.

 

5 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

This very much depends on the mob. If they had 0 or even Negative mez protections this would be a non issue.

Are you planning to make this new buffer a minion, or do you expect the devs to put in time to create an entirely new class of mob that doesn't have the built-in protection inherent to Lt-and-up enemies?

 

5 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Outside of specific mez powers that help with actual crowd-control,

... that's the entire point of mez powers - crowd control.

 

5 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Exactly this! I'm not suggesting "this enemy is invincible until you stun it"; I'm suggesting "this enemy takes 50% less damage unless you stun it, then it takes 50% more damage". You can still muscle through them, but the more effective method would be to mez first, similar to other games where you have enemies that turtle up unless you do something first.

You're still creating a paradigm that forces people to bring CC, if you're changing things at all.  Either the effect isn't strong enough to make any real difference, or you run into people not IO'ed to the nines simply not being able to kill these guys because they can't shut down that mitigation effect.  You're trying to invent a middle ground where there isn't one, and never will be.  MMOs, ultimately, are a game of numbers; either the numbers say you need X or they don't.

 

Nobody likes putting up with a Paragon Protector that's popped MoG or an Illusionist that's gone intangible, whether the mob in question is an actual threat to the team or not, and your idea simply amounts to adding more Paragon Protectors and Illusionists.  That's not "creative encounters", that's one more faction on the "we're not doing this mission" list.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Black Zot

[CrudeVileTerror]

I feel this topic has ventured far enough down this particular road to invoke @Blackfeather's amazing thread:  https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/22414-overwhelming-overpower-a-controller-inherent-buff-control-avs-and-gms/

 

There are definite problems with the Illusionists and Paragon Protectors.  But it's not that they have unique behaviours, it's that their unique behaviours are too severe.

Support and Ancillary enemies that have high Damage Resistance that is suppressed with Control would be much more interesting, I think.  They would increase the challenge of their compatriots, rather than be a direct threat to the player(s).

Basically . . . a Defender for the NPC enemies.  Like the Sapper (but not as annoying, please) or the Surgeon, ranked up to somewhere between Lt. and Boss (or just straight-up a Boss), which presents the player with a choice:  Tackle these supportive enemies hard and fast with damage, to try and bring them down before they ramp up the threat of all the Minions in a mob, OR take down all the Minions in the mob before the support can get them to feel steam, OR use a Control on the support.

[mcdoogss]

Can someone briefly describe why the game itself can’t handle doing something like adding lvl 55 enemies (making them +4 to incarnates)?  Seems like everyone’s just assuming that that is impossible but it seems like getting back to +4 effective level gaps would be a good start.

Edited December 11, 2020 by mcdoogss

[Galaxy Brain]

3 hours ago, Black Zot said:

Kinda hilarious that you'd pick Super Strength, of all sets, being as its damage is almost entirely wrapped up in a couple of active powers (one of which has a CHANCE to mez) and a crashing buff.  SS's dedicated mez button explicitly does very little damage,  has the usual accuracy problems associated with AoE mez, and tends to be skipped as it sends targets wandering out of reach when it DOES connect.  All you did was prove my point.

SS has stuns and a hold IIRC, and the high damage beign in a few powers doesnt negate it being a high damage set.

 

How about we use Energy Melee then since every power can Stun and it does Wumbo damage? Or Ice Melee where it has a hold that deal good damage? Beam Rifle's Lancer Shot, etc, etc. There are a number of examples of good powers that have mez effects, though you highlight another issue is that dedicated mez powers in existing sets often are just poorly made or at best struggle to be picked over more attacks.

 

3 hours ago, Black Zot said:

Are you planning to make this new buffer a minion, or do you expect the devs to put in time to create an entirely new class of mob that doesn't have the built-in protection inherent to Lt-and-up enemies?

I'm going off the assumption that whatever armor toggle that this theoretical enemy has could have negative mez protection. If they wanted, Im sure they could make an AV with a mag -1000 mez protection power to bypass the native resists of their rank.

 

3 hours ago, Black Zot said:

... that's the entire point of mez powers - crowd control.

Yes and no, what I mean by crowd control are powers that control location more than action, but even those rarely matter given mobs are wiped by AoEs/Get taunted naturally by most melee characters (either inherent or armor toggle) before they get to scatter much anyways.

 

3 hours ago, Black Zot said:

You're still creating a paradigm that forces people to bring CC, if you're changing things at all.  Either the effect isn't strong enough to make any real difference, or you run into people not IO'ed to the nines simply not being able to kill these guys because they can't shut down that mitigation effect.  You're trying to invent a middle ground where there isn't one, and never will be.  MMOs, ultimately, are a game of numbers; either the numbers say you need X or they don't.

 

Nobody likes putting up with a Paragon Protector that's popped MoG or an Illusionist that's gone intangible, whether the mob in question is an actual threat to the team or not, and your idea simply amounts to adding more Paragon Protectors and Illusionists.  That's not "creative encounters", that's one more faction on the "we're not doing this mission" list.

As @CrudeVileTerror put it, those bosses are extreme examples because there is no workaround for them, same with Fake Nemi's and the Council silver people who's name escapes me lol. They just go invincible if you do not defeat them quick enough (or just at random for Carnies) and you can't do much. Those are not so much difficult as they are tedious or # checks. Either you get the timing right and can deal with the carnie, deal enough damage outright to skip their invincible trap cards, or you don't.

 

What this example idea is proposing is adding in enemies with alternate means of defeat which opens up alternate playstyles and choices. Unlike the above examples, it'd be treated more like attacking a lethal resist enemy with lethal damage, when you have a Fire damage attack on deck that would be better. You can certainly beat them with the lethal attacks but the Fire would be way better, much like how this theoretical enemy could be beaten by raw damage, but if you mez them first then they take a TON more damage and are easier/faster to go down.

 

Most all sets have some components of Mez effects that could be used, and those that do not tend to be incredibly high DPS anyways, so it seems like it would shake out.

 

 

Again, this is just one idea of what could be done.

[CrudeVileTerror]

@Galaxy Brain:  https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Council/Ascendants

Not to be confused with:  https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Ascendant

[Black Zot]

21 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

 

As @CrudeVileTerror put it, those bosses are extreme examples because there is no workaround for them, same with Fake Nemi's and the Council silver people who's name escapes me lol. They just go invincible if you do not defeat them quick enough (or just at random for Carnies) and you can't do much. Those are not so much difficult as they are tedious or # checks. Either you get the timing right and can deal with the carnie, deal enough damage outright to skip their invincible trap cards, or you don't.

 

What this example idea is proposing is adding in enemies with alternate means of defeat which opens up alternate playstyles and choices. Unlike the above examples, it'd be treated more like attacking a lethal resist enemy with lethal damage, when you have a Fire damage attack on deck that would be better. You can certainly beat them with the lethal attacks but the Fire would be way better, much like how this theoretical enemy could be beaten by raw damage, but if you mez them first then they take a TON more damage and are easier/faster to go down.

 

Most all sets have some components of Mez effects that could be used, and those that do not tend to be incredibly high DPS anyways, so it seems like it would shake out.

 

 

Again, this is just one idea of what could be done.

 

And again, you're making a distinction without a difference, trying to invent a middle option that's mechanically impossible and tack on excess difficulty for its own sake.  Either the mob in question is sturdy enough in its unmezzed state to require mez to beat it in a reasonable time (turning it into yet another screw-you enemy that the game already has too many of and imposing build taxes that are bad design regardless), or it's not and nothing changes.  End of discussion.

 

And why does ANYTHING have to be done, other than to placate the "make the game arbitrarily hard" crowd who won't be satisfied until there's a good chunk of the game that ONLY hardcore players can do?

[CrudeVileTerror]

What's "Reasonable," though?

See . . . if they could add some mechanics to the game so that a Scrapper might have to spend as much time as a Controller on defeating a particular type of enemy, while a Controller can defeat that enemy as quickly as a Scrapper can with any of the existing enemies in the game right now . . . I'd frankly consider that a step in a direction which would make the game more engaging for me.

I get it that some people just don't think a Controller should ever be able to "Win" as quickly as a Scrapper does.   It's a point of view.  Can't say that I find it particularly reasonable, though.

I believe it was Cipher, or maybe Number Six, who said a while ago that it's REALLY disingenuous when anyone says something is "mechanically impossible."  They made a point that just about anything -could- be done with the code, given enough time and creativity (and, naturally, testing.  Loads and loads and loads of testing).   Just because the game as-is doesn't have all the component pieces to make something like this work flawlessly right now does not mean that it's impossible.

And that's what these discussions are about.

Sharing ideas about how to move forward with the game.  Cooperation for benefit.

 

And please.  Please please please please PLEASE remember:  The number of people saying they want the game universally more difficult are a rare breed.  Most people asking for increased difficulty are asking for it as something optional.  A personal setting to improve their personal gaming experience.

And, while the point isn't lost on me that this is a social game, and due to that social nature there is a series of collective pressures for players to "play alike," I still think that the fundamental truth of City of Heroes has ALWAYS been: 

"Make it -yours!-"

[Black Zot]

10 minutes ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

And please.  Please please please please PLEASE remember:  The number of people saying they want the game universally more difficult are a rare breed.  Most people asking for increased difficulty are asking for it as something optional.  A personal setting to improve their personal gaming experience.

 

That's pretty hard to swallow when the last two discussion threads have basically been "how can we make the game harder?"

[CrudeVileTerror]

Even if there really are that many players who want to make the game more difficult for other players, do you really think the Homecoming Devs would do something like universally increase the difficulty of the whole game?

At worst, I think we'll end up with more arcs like Piecemeal's:  Something that will be challenging until people adapt to its meta.  Ultimately not the most the sustainable or productive development method, but as long as it's balanced with other new content which isn't too difficult, then the team will hit the mandatory checkboxes (for the time being).

I'd just like to encourage the Devs to think outside the box some more.  Get us the next step in personal play customization, like AE+ or the Ambitions systems.  And, when it comes to difficulty; same deal!  Hence the Advanced Enemies suggestion from yesteryear.

[Blackfeather]

2 minutes ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

I feel this topic has ventured far enough down this particular road to invoke @Blackfeather's amazing thread:  https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/22414-overwhelming-overpower-a-controller-inherent-buff-control-avs-and-gms/

 

There are definite problems with the Illusionists and Paragon Protectors.  But it's not that they have unique behaviours, it's that their unique behaviours are too severe.

Support and Ancillary enemies that have high Damage Resistance that is suppressed with Control would be much more interesting, I think.  They would increase the challenge of their compatriots, rather than be a direct threat to the player(s).

Basically . . . a Defender for the NPC enemies.  Like the Sapper (but not as annoying, please) or the Surgeon, ranked up to somewhere between Lt. and Boss (or just straight-up a Boss), which presents the player with a choice:  Tackle these supportive enemies hard and fast with damage, to try and bring them down before they ramp up the threat of all the Minions in a mob, OR take down all the Minions in the mob before the support can get them to feel steam, OR use a Control on the support.

Thanks for the mention! ❤️

 

Generally, I think when people say "in what ways can we challenge players further", what they really mean is "how can I make my character feel like they're contributing". And the latter doesn't always necessitate the former.

[Galaxy Brain]

5 minutes ago, Blackfeather said:

Thanks for the mention! ❤️

 

Generally, I think when people say "in what ways can we challenge players further", what they really mean is "how can I make my character feel like they're contributing". And the latter doesn't always necessitate the former.

This sums it up niceley!

 

@Black Zot, my goal here isn't to just make the game harder for the sake of it. My goal is to introduce new facets that while may be hard for some, are easy for others to encourage more diverse tactics. That is objectively harder than we have now as it throws more decisions at the players, but at the same time our current meta means certain builds and styles are straight up eclipsed by others that "solve" the current puzzle better. 

[TalonBlue]

I just simply think more endgame, incarnate level content, that also expands on the in-game story and lore is what most of us want. As new content was added on live, your hero or villain needed to get stronger to match the challenge of that new content. So I think innately, those concepts go hand in hand... for endgame content. So I would say, making new, more challenging content would be better then trying to add a "hard mode" for existing content. (Now I realize time and resources probably make that hard to accomplish, so I don't blame you if that isn't feasible. I get it.)

 

This game has always been about building upon on what came before. And the content that has existed hasn't been changed or been altered very much. (Except for the retcons for when Sister Psyche and Statesman died.) So I do think if you add a "hard mode" option there's fair chance it won't be utilized much, if it is just an optional setting that appears in a menu when you start the task force or flashback mission.

 

I think if you are serious about adding some kind of "hard mode" then my suggestion is this:

 

An optional mode, that adds Incarnate level enemies, and adds Incarnate abilities to Elite Boss and Hero/Archvillain enemies... and I would suggest upon its initial release that this mode would only be applicable (to begin with) in two story arcs: Miss Liberty's Task Force and Lord Recluse's Strike Force. This will let you test what it would look like for a team of 8, which what I would consider the measure for all content excluding iTrials. A long time ago they were the most challenging tasks at one point, I think they are a good place to start for adding a "hard mode" and I am not for adding a "hard mode" to absolutely everything, but I think those two arcs would be the best place to start.

 

Also, one last idea, more thematic/lore based. Instead going to the normal contact for the "hard mode" version of the Task Force or Strike Force... I would love to see Ouroboros used in some way. Like using those six floating islands around it as staging areas to begin those arcs in "hard mode". Or adding a dreamspace area with the Dream Doctor as the contact. Just a thought to improve the presentation of a "hard mode" Task Force/Strike Force. Also, this way if you wanted to do those tasks normally, nothing changes. I just want it to be a little more than a setting that shows up in a menu.

 

 

 

[Darmian]

So, making stuff harder, or making stuff more tactical? Which some see as the same thing, while plenty others don't.

 

I still say it comes back to, essentially, new content. I've mentioned and gone around in circles a few times earlier, the entire "tip missions from AE to fill the gaps" thing, so let's park that to one side, though we may come back to it. 

 

What about content (dangerous word) aimed at each AT? Taking a leaf out of @CrudeVileTerror's post earlier, suppose you had a mission that is simply easier if you're a certain AT. (Yeah, "harder", I'm getting there!) Infiltration style missions that Stalkers and Widows would excel at but scrappers and brutes would finish on the red? Horatius  on the bridge missions where you gotta be a tank to hold off the wave after wave of ambushes in the pass while your squishier buddies do their thing? (Basic tanking I know but how many missions are actually built to do that, as opposed to you've learned that this works for you, ie tanking Recluse in MLTF?)

 

Missions where you get your full XP and drops at the end because you fail if you kill MORE than a certain amount?  Bring on the Controllers and Dominators. The enemy killing each other doesn't count.

 

Sentinels?  Well, you got me, I only have one and haven't got the hang of those yet.

 

This is just late night spitballing, so I've only thrown a few ATs out there.  Feel free to tear holes in this.*

 

*Because my main interest is still in the tips from AE thing!

[Darmian]

1 hour ago, TalonBlue said:

I just simply think more endgame, incarnate level content, that also expands on the in-game story and lore is what most of us want.

Welp, I'm going to stand up and say no, it isn't what this particular "most of us" wants, and having read most of the content on here I'd posit at best 50 % might want it, at best. And while I wouldn't complain if we got it I see it as a another dead end if it isn't accompanied by across the board, 1 to 49 level content to sit right behind it. 

 

1 hour ago, TalonBlue said:

An optional mode, that adds Incarnate level enemies, and adds Incarnate abilities to Elite Boss and Hero/Archvillain enemies... and I would suggest upon its initial release that this mode would only be applicable (to begin with) in two story arcs: Miss Liberty's Task Force and Lord Recluse's Strike Force. This will let you test what it would look like for a team of 8, which what I would consider the measure for all content excluding iTrials. A long time ago they were the most challenging tasks at one point, I think they are a good place to start for adding a "hard mode" and I am not for adding a "hard mode" to absolutely everything, but I think those two arcs would be the best place to start.

This has definite legs to stand on. Many votes for this please. 

 

And a thing I mentioned on the Discord version of this topic, but I've been thinking about it a little.  Stealing a little from the Kheldians here. Suppose missions from level 45 to 49 had a trigger added to them (oh, the pain I will bring to coders!), where if say a team with one incarnate starts a mish then the enemy will have at least one incarnate NPC opposing them. And then two for two, three for three and so on? Actually if the doppelganger mechanic were recoded for incarnate powers then drop those in! Face yourself at full power!

1 hour ago, TalonBlue said:

Also, one last idea, more thematic/lore based. Instead going to the normal contact for the "hard mode" version of the Task Force or Strike Force... I would love to see Ouroboros used in some way. Like using those six floating islands around it as staging areas to begin those arcs in "hard mode". Or adding a dreamspace area with the Dream Doctor as the contact. Just a thought to improve the presentation of a "hard mode" Task Force/Strike Force. Also, this way if you wanted to do those tasks normally, nothing changes. I just want it to be a little more than a setting that shows up in a menu.

This is very nice.  Much approve.  With one important caveat.  Dream Doctor should be immediately killed and removed from the game. As a deus ex machina NPC he negates player agency and that's simply bad. So, maybe another character to hand out a dreamspace set of arcs.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Darmian

[Darmian]

I'm ranting away tonight, apologies!

 

It does boil down to what can be done to leverage what we already have into new, interesting and challenging things?  Moving away from harder vs content for a moment now. 

 

Zones.  Entirely new zones?  That's a lot of work. Especially when we have quite a few zones simply underused and oftentimes just plain empty. Kallisti Wharf is top of the list to get stuff, no question really.  Once the geometry is fixed that is. The hazard zones need more in them for people to simply go there. On other threads (for various reasons) I've advocated doubling certain zones to add content and lore to Redside, and those are Bloody Bay and Warburg, with the copies being PVE versions with different badges and new missions and contacts. Similarly for Siren's Call on Blue side.*

 

@TalonBlue's suggestion of utilizing the floating islands around Ouro proper is a lovely idea and each island could have its own crystal and Mender.  (NOT DEREK!....although...a Derek island with a crystal full of weird stuff might be interesting!)

 

More later.  The last few posts have just been me rabbiting on and typing as I think.  

 

*Why doubling? Well, why should PVPers lose those zones? Ok, to be fair almost all the PVP seems to occur on Indom in RV, and while I'm not a PVPer myself I see no valid reason to take those away from them, along with no PVE player wants to get ganked simply doing normal missions. So the zones exist, simply double them. You'll get PVE players using the #2 and the #1 will stay as is.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Darmian