taunt All Scrappers must have Taunt Auras

[Player2]

Want to tank enemies and need to draw aggro?  Pick up Provoke from the Presence pool.

 

[Ukase]

Just my opinion with isn't worth much - but I see no need for a scrapper to have a taunt aura. Sounds like the OP just needs to roll a brute or a tank. 

[Hedgefund]

  On 12/30/2020 at 2:25 PM, Player2 said:

Want to tank enemies and need to draw aggro?  Pick up Provoke from the Presence pool.

 

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You don't even need to pick up a new pool, Scrapper primaries include Confront.

 

ETA - Confront's not aoe, I know.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Hedgefund

[Alchemystic]

  On 12/30/2020 at 1:54 PM, parabola said:

Well there's quite a lot to unpack in this discussion. I would very much question that scrappers do more damage than brutes across the board, it is very dependent on powersets and circumstances. I am certainly confident in saying that scrappers don't outdamage brutes to the same extent that brutes out tough scappers. Running at high fury is easy and the consistent damage that provides is generally easier to use than swingy random crits.

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So we give Scrappers slightly higher damage, boom, problem solved.

[Player2]

  On 12/30/2020 at 2:32 PM, Hedgefund said:

You don't even need to pick up a new pool, Scrapper primaries include Confront.

 

ETA - Confront's not aoe, I know.

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Exactly.  Scrappers can Confront... but to get tanking-type taunt, it's as simple as skipping Confront and taking Provoke in its place.

[Apparition]

  On 12/30/2020 at 2:29 PM, Ukase said:

Just my opinion with isn't worth much - but I see no need for a scrapper to have a taunt aura. Sounds like the OP just needs to roll a brute or a tank. 

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Yep.  Out of the melee ATs, I only play Brutes and Tankers.  This is one of the reasons why. 

[Doomguide2005]

  On 12/29/2020 at 10:29 PM, AerialAssault said:

If some guy just turned five of my friends into a meat smoothie with one swing of their claws, you can guarantee i'm going to high tail it the hell outta there.

 

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And died scant seconds later as my claws hit him (and maybe the next bunch of dead guys, Focus, Shockwave) right between his cowardly shoulders.

[Ukase]

  On 12/30/2020 at 2:44 PM, Apparition said:

 

Yep.  Out of the melee ATs, I only play Brutes and Tankers.  This is one of the reasons why. 

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I have played a couple of scrappers. They're fun. But a brute, to me - seems to dish out more damage and have another 1k worth of hp. Yeah, scrappers have crits. And at level 50, they do dish out more dps over time. But - while leveling, I think the brute is better. Probably the way I slot them. 

But I'll take a blaster over any of them. 

 

[Doomguide2005]

  On 12/30/2020 at 2:51 PM, Ukase said:

I have played a couple of scrappers. They're fun. But a brute, to me - seems to dish out more damage and have another 1k worth of hp. Yeah, scrappers have crits. And at level 50, they do dish out more dps over time. But - while leveling, I think the brute is better. Probably the way I slot them. 

But I'll take a blaster over any of them. 

 

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It all depends on the build and/or the sets (and as you point out, even their level) can make a difference.  At 50 my Claws/SR tends to have more health than many Brutes, but she's also almost at the hard cap for a scrapper ... which is substantially less than a Brutes cap.  That said the biggest difference I'm thinking isn't health but resistance cap when looking at your average scrapper vs brute.

 

Edit:  The health cap probably really only matters in high levels on an IO build similar to mine on a Armor set with Dull Pain or similar power available.  Otherwise there are so many other variables contributing to health it's kind of a wash, brutes having a small but definite edge which can explode when you tack on Dull Pain or something like a Frostworks buff.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Doomguide2005

[Purrfekshawn]

  On 12/30/2020 at 2:25 PM, Player2 said:

Want to tank enemies and need to draw aggro?  Pick up Provoke from the Presence pool.

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Does presence pool have Toggle-like switch on and forget type power?

  On 12/30/2020 at 1:54 PM, parabola said:

So either way it shouldn't make a huge difference and I don't see the problem with all scrappers having the weak taunt auras that some sets already have. It is just a quality of life feature because chasing runners on melee only characters isn't fun (to me, others may differ). Rad, inv, willpower and shield scrappers are hardly hamstrung by having their taunt auras, far from it. They don't collapse under the weight of the aggro they generate and at the same time their presence has also not invalidated brutes in any way. Scrappers could take much more significant buffs than taunt auras before this was even a remote possibility.

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Yeah and the guy who programmed AI so foes cluck away from even not the strongest characters, way not the strongest like tiny, little, scared to death little chick must have had serious mental issues, because l cannot understand how else one might have programmed Archvillains or Heroes marathonn across the map all the time?

  On 12/30/2020 at 12:01 AM, Apparition said:

Captain Powerhouse has specifically stated a couple of times over the past two years that he believes any Scrapper armor set having a taunt aura was a mistake and that any new Scrapper armor set will not have a taunt aura.  So the chances of this happening are exactly zero.

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Seriously? Them demented AI which makes enemies run away from the character should be even BIGGEST mistake, and it had to be fixed WAY BEFORE any of Scrapper sets gets its taunt auras stripped off.

 

l'm just suggesting STANDARDIZE scrapper sets, so no one is better or worse than another in regards of the basic combat mechanic, that the Taunt is. All Tanker and Brute primary and secondary sets Have Taunt, haven't they? With defense sets having Toggle Taunt Auras. All Scrapper Primaries have click taunts, havent they. But Taunt Auras - not all scrapper sets have them. Thus l state that All scrapper Secondaries must have Taunt Auras as well. And nothing like 50% have and 50% have not.

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Purrfekshawn

[Uun]

If you want your scrapper to have a taunt aura (as I do), play /Invul, /Rad or /Shield (the aura on /WP has a really short duration). I don't really feel like scrappers need changes to distinguish them from brutes, although I would like to see the scrapper resistance cap increased to 80% to distinguish them from everyone else.

[Player2]

  On 12/30/2020 at 5:03 PM, Purrfekshawn said:

Does presence pool have Toggle-like switch on and forget type power?

 

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It does not.  And if you want such a thing, you should be playing a tanker or a brute.  Scrappers CAN tank...  but it does not mean that they should be able to do so as effectively as the two ATs designed for that role.

[chi1701]

  On 12/29/2020 at 9:11 PM, Vanden said:

They sure aren't, only Tankers, Brutes, and Kheldians show up on that list.

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But Keldians arent tanks and should be removed from that list.

[Apparition]

  On 12/30/2020 at 7:30 PM, chi1701 said:

But Keldians arent tanks and should be removed from that list.

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Dwarf form would like a word.

[chi1701]

  On 12/30/2020 at 7:56 PM, Apparition said:

 

Dwarf form would like a word.

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Still not a tank. Dwarf is between scrapper and tank/brute but with significant trade offs.

[Alchemystic]

  On 12/30/2020 at 8:02 PM, chi1701 said:

Still not a tank. Dwarf is between scrapper and tank/brute but with significant trade offs.

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You're kidding right? Dwarf form gives an AoE taunt and higher resistances, how is that not a tank?

[Starforge]

  On 12/30/2020 at 7:30 PM, chi1701 said:

But Keldians arent tanks and should be removed from that list.

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I know from personal experience that Kheldians are better tanks than Scrappers.

[Ruin Mage]

nerf kheldians

[chi1701]

  On 12/30/2020 at 8:06 PM, Tyrannical said:

You're kidding right? Dwarf form gives an AoE taunt and higher resistances, how is that not a tank?

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Keldians are jack of all trades master of none, forms do have a function, but a tank or brute will do that job much better. Having a Taunt doesnt make it automatically a tank.

[Alchemystic]

  On 12/30/2020 at 8:11 PM, chi1701 said:

Keldians are jack of all trades master of none, forms do have a function, but a tank or brute will do that job much better. Having a Taunt doesnt make it automatically a tank.

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But one if those forms is designed to tank

[Riverdusk]

I always like the idea some presented when this came up before and that is to turn scrapper's confront powers into a combat teleport.  And now we have a template to do exactly that with the change to the teleport pool.  Although maybe the scrapper version would be mob targeted and of course keep its taunt component as well (if it was up to me I'd make it a small aoe taunt as well).   If something runs, boom, we zap to it and with the taunt it should also stop running.  Confront definitely needs a little something to make it more appealing as a power anyway imo.

 

I find it sad that right now a power pool taunt is generally more useful than the scrapper's taunt they get in their primary powerset.  

 

 

[chi1701]

  On 12/30/2020 at 8:18 PM, Tyrannical said:

But one if those forms is designed to tank

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Designed to be more resilient and have a higher survivability.

[Alchemystic]

  On 12/30/2020 at 8:22 PM, chi1701 said:

Designed to be more resilient and have a higher survivability.

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aka tank

[Player2]

Tanking is a combination of both being more resilient/survivable and aggro mangement.

 

Kheldians' dwarf form being more survivable and possessing an AoE taunt qualifies it as a tank.  They aren't "true" tanks as they can focus their build in a non-tank way that excludes them from being tanks... but as pointed out, they are the jack of all trades and master of none.  They are definitely more qualified to be on the tanks list than scrappers.

[chi1701]

  On 12/30/2020 at 8:29 PM, Tyrannical said:

aka tank

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Then would you support dwarf form (and nova) buff to make them compariable to tank? Access to defensive buffs, more damage, access to abilities outside their respective form, larger aoes, higher hit cap, more threat?