taunt All Scrappers must have Taunt Auras

[Parabola]

8 minutes ago, Monos King said:

Why is it a qol improvement?

Because chasing down runners is a major pita. And it's just odd that some of the scrapper secondarys get taunt auras and others don't. As mentioned upthread Cap P has stated he doesn't think any of them should have taunt auras, I think they all should. Either that or we do something about the ai but the auras seem the easier fix.

[Grindingsucks]

I mean, speaking only for myself, I don't know that it's a pain in the ass, unless I'm specifically tanking to group the mobs for my teammates to target with Controls and/or AOE's.  Otherwise, I've got grapple keybind, Jaunt macro, and Combat Teleport macro to run them to ground.

 

Anyway, they're right to flee from my StJ/SR Scrapper, Frank Savage.  They might survive several seconds of contact with a Tanker, but if they don't run from Frank, they should just hang a tombstone around their necks and kiss their collective asses goodbye.  🤷‍♂️

[BelleSorciere]

Are runners really that big of a problem? In my experience they seem to eventually return to their spawn point.

[Riverdusk]

It's a dual issue for me between the lack of taunt and the lower resistance caps.  It means fire armor, dark armor, and electric armor are effectively a no go on a scrapper for me personally.   You are potentially taking 2.5 times the damage as a brute with the same set (at least to certain damage types), having to deal with runners, and only getting a very slight damage advantage in exchange.  The tradeoffs are terrible. 

 

 

[Vanden]

2 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

It's a dual issue for me between the lack of taunt and the lower resistance caps.  It means fire armor, dark armor, and electric armor are effectively a no go on a scrapper for me personally.   You are potentially taking 2.5 times the damage as a brute with the same set (at least to certain damage types), having to deal with runners, and only getting a very slight damage advantage in exchange.  The tradeoffs are terrible.

Seems like the lack of taunt helps in that case. Fewer enemies attacking you means less damage you need to mitigate. How would giving those sets taunt auras improve them if they'd now have more enemies attacking them but unchanged ability to mitigate damage?

[Riverdusk]

54 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Seems like the lack of taunt helps in that case. Fewer enemies attacking you means less damage you need to mitigate. How would giving those sets taunt auras improve them if they'd now have more enemies attacking them but unchanged ability to mitigate damage?

Which is why I said it is a dual issue for me.  Both areas need improvement.  Scrappers shouldn't have the same resistance cap as a controller, defender, blaster, etc.  Ideally it should have been tanks 90, brutes 85, and scrappers 80.  But I can only imagine the backlash to nerfing brutes to only 85 would probably cause at this point. 😄  Scrappers to 80 would certainly help though.

 

Unlike the OP, I'd also be all for just an improvement to confront as I mentioned before, so that it is optional if you want that extra aggro or not.  That a pool power taunt is generally better than a primary is sad...and forces scrappers to waste one of their pools in order to get it.

[BelleSorciere]

58 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

It's a dual issue for me between the lack of taunt and the lower resistance caps.  It means fire armor, dark armor, and electric armor are effectively a no go on a scrapper for me personally.   You are potentially taking 2.5 times the damage as a brute with the same set (at least to certain damage types), having to deal with runners, and only getting a very slight damage advantage in exchange.  The tradeoffs are terrible. 

 

 

I played a Dark/Dark scrapper from launch to sunset and I never really found this to be a significant problem once armor could stack. My issue was always keeping endurance under control, and IOs took care of that.

 

I always take at least one ranged attack on any melee AT I play to shoot runners if they actually get on my nerves.  But yeah, there's no particularly strong reason for mob AI to make them run away the way they do, and that's possibly a better change than trying to push the dev who doesn't want scrappers to have taunt auras to give all scrapper powersets taunt auras.

[Riverdusk]

12 minutes ago, BelleSorciere said:

 

I always take at least one ranged attack on any melee AT I play to shoot runners if they actually get on my nerves.  But yeah, there's no particularly strong reason for mob AI to make them run away the way they do, and that's possibly a better change than trying to push the dev who doesn't want scrappers to have taunt auras to give all scrapper powersets taunt auras.

Can agree with that.  I ended up having to take an immobilize in my epic for my beast/dark MM after every AV fight ended up dragging on for 20+ minutes because they'd spend the entire time running all over the map.  Especially hard for melee pets to actually get attacks off on runners.  It wasn't the slightest bit challenging, just insanely tedious.  So, not just a scrapper issue really.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Riverdusk

[BelleSorciere]

Yeah, AVs especially shouldn't be running around for 20 minutes straight. That's obnoxious. Verisimilitude aside, that becomes tedium.

Edited December 31, 2020 by BelleSorciere

[Haijinx]

Confront works on runners

 

Also Brutes get taunt auras and are close enough damage to scrappers you can go there for a specific combo.  

 

Id suggest SR, its really good on Brutes.

[UltraAlt]

On 12/29/2020 at 5:20 PM, Shadeknight said:

Calling it now: "On my server they're under Tank."

Not sure what "server" you are on, but apparently it isn't Homecoming.

 

On 12/29/2020 at 5:07 PM, Greycat said:

 

 

Hit next,

 

The above is what I'm seeing in the character creation screen in Homecoming.

 

On 12/29/2020 at 3:23 PM, Purrfekshawn said:

l think all Scrapper Secondary Powersets must have one power that generate Taunt at surrounding enemies

As above, Scrappers aren't Tanks, they are melee.

Scrappers have "Confront" in their primary selection.

Any PBAoE or cone attacks create agro based on damage generated.

 

I'm unsure if Purrfekshawn is wanting to play scrappers that create more agro (in which case, play a Brute) or if they want to be able to hide behind scrappers  and feel that they are not generating enough agro to protect them (in which case, don't throw so many AoE when you are running with a scrapper as you would when you are running with tank).

 

Quills does a pretty good job of creating an agro field on a spine scrapper.

 

I do not see a need for a an AOE taunt for scrappers. That is for tanking not scrapper-ing.

[AerialAssault]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the crux of the main suggestion isn't necessarily wanting Scrappers to be tanks, but expressing annoyance that enemies run away from fights.

 

To which I say ... Yeah? What of it? Do you want every enemy to fight to the death, even when they can't win? It's a perfectly understandable response to flee when a fight isn't going your way.

 

As for enemies fleeing the moment the fight starts, maybe they're just intimidated by your awesome presence lol

[Greycat]

4 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Not sure what "server" you are on, but apparently it isn't Homecoming.

I think they're referring to the fact the OP has a tendency to talk about "his private server." (Just for clarification.)

[Ruin Mage]

Bingo.

[UltraAlt]

4 hours ago, Greycat said:

I think they're referring to the fact the OP has a tendency to talk about "his private server." (Just for clarification.)

Not sure why it is relevant to post about a private server on the Homecoming forums.

If they have suggestions for their "private" server, I really see no reason to post that here or am I confused again because I'm tired?

[Purrfekshawn]

12 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

Not sure what "server" you are on, but apparently it isn't Homecoming.

 

The above is what I'm seeing in the character creation screen in Homecoming.

 

As above, Scrappers aren't Tanks, they are melee.

Scrappers have "Confront" in their primary selection.

Any PBAoE or cone attacks create agro based on damage generated.

 

I'm unsure if Purrfekshawn is wanting to play scrappers that create more agro (in which case, play a Brute) or if they want to be able to hide behind scrappers  and feel that they are not generating enough agro to protect them (in which case, don't throw so many AoE when you are running with a scrapper as you would when you are running with tank).

 

Quills does a pretty good job of creating an agro field on a spine scrapper.

 

I do not see a need for a an AOE taunt for scrappers. That is for tanking not scrapper-ing.

Brutes don't have access to Weapon Mastery Epic pool, nuff said! 

8 hours ago, Greycat said:

I think they're referring to the fact the OP has a tendency to talk about "his private server." (Just for clarification.)

On private server We already stopped enemies' joggin-away-across-the-entire-map nonsence!

Well then you MUST have plans for changing dementical enemy AI, so they won't start ride on top of their bellies like Council Warwolves, wiping floor in the whole dungeon, then enter door and wipe another floor then enter another dungeon and wipe that with their bellies as well. %}_

Edited December 31, 2020 by Purrfekshawn

[Alchemystic]

@Shadeknightcalled it

[Ruin Mage]

FUCKING CALLED IT.

Stop trying to promote your server, Purr. Just stop.

[Purrfekshawn]

1 hour ago, Shadeknight said:

Stop trying to promote your server, Purr. Just stop.

We aint promoting aything. That server is NOT OPEN for public acccess.

[Dragon Crush]

Then maybe don't constantly mention the private server that you're totally not trying to promote except perhaps in regards to "this *can* be done, I've seen it on another server".

 

And insisting all scrappers *must* have taunt auras would annoy me, some of my scrappers prefer to just hold an EB/AV while everyone burns the trash rather than dealing with whole spawn.

Maybe putting a mag 1 taunt aura in a pool for people to grab if they want to hold the attention of spawns better might work, though I'm unsure what sort of pool it'd fit in.

[Alchemystic]

1 hour ago, Purrfekshawn said:

We aint promoting aything. That server is NOT OPEN for public acccess.

Then why flex over content none of us are going to experience? What's the point?... Bragging rights?

 

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Tyrannical

[Greycat]

Look. Honestly. Pay attention to what's being said above and why. And understand this post is not meant to be any sort of an attack - I'm actually going to try to help you here.

 

Wanting to help out and suggest improvements is great. Really. Even enthusiasm is great. But there are things that... push over the line into just being obnoxious.

 

It's one thing to say "Oh, yeah, I'm going out to dinner," and another to say "Oh, sure, I'll be going to the governor's for dinner. Then breakfast with Gal Godot. I hope Tom Cruise doesn't join us, he always tries to stiff us with the check. Then we'll pick up the Ferrari from the shop." And doing that constantly.

 

You're doing the latter. You're essentially name dropping your "private server" in what feels like every thread you start at some point - even if you don't, it feels that way. It's becoming something (alongside rather... pushy, demanding subjects like "HORRIBLE THING SHOULD BE FIXED NOW!" for something fairly minor, or "I can do it, I don't care about your 'standards' (the way that costume pieces thread sounded, as I recall,)  or something like *this* thread's title of "ALL Scrappers MUST have taunt auras" (a case you still haven't made as anything other than a preference.) Hell, I expect your threads to get locked with a comment along the lines of "We're not looking for developers at this time" at this point.

 

It's not even a "This thread suddenly sounded this way." It's ... something you're kind of getting known for.

 

This thread would likely have a completely *different* tone and direction if, say, you'd just said "Give scrappers taunt auras, too," and laid out a case - even if it's just an "I'd like to see them get this. It's inconsistent across sets and would help a melee AT. Yes, you can get a power pool, but it's not the same thing." No need to even bring up a private server. Doesn't sound like you're demanding anyone do anything right now or they're all idiots.

 

Trust me, coming from someone who could be... rather an ass on the live forums (and I'll own that here, too, when it's the case,) and is still rather *blunt,* wording and presentation *matter,* and it's looking like you should really consider *how* you're posting what you want to get across. It's something I've had to do, myself.

 

Step one... really cut down the mentions of the private server. Honestly. It's turning you, and it, into a forum meme.

[BrandX]

Wasn't there a few Scrapper Secondary Sets with a taunt aura?  I could swear WP, INV and Shield had a taunt aura.

[AerialAssault]

19 minutes ago, BrandX said:

Wasn't there a few Scrapper Secondary Sets with a taunt aura?  I could swear WP, INV and Shield had a taunt aura.

You're right. The following sets & powers in Scrapper Secondaries have a Taunt element:

 

• Bio Armour: Evolving Armour
• Invulnerability: Invincibility
• Radiation Armour: Beta Decay
• Shield Defence: Against All Odds
• Willpower: Rise to the Challenge

Notably, these are sets & powers which function better when enemies remain close. I could buy the argument that Fiery Aura's Burn, or Energy Aura's Energy Drain could have a small Taunt element. But not all sets need a Taunt element. For example, Regen & Super Reflexes are both sets where, generally, you don't want to be drawing any more attention than necessary. 

[nihilii]

I think @Riverdusk makes excellent points through the thread. My own pet suggestion for Scrapper fixes would be to give a taunt aura to every Scrapper secondary, but to cap that taunt aura at 5 targets; and to raise the resistance cap to 80%.

There is an extra problem with Scrappers in that arguably the best two endgame powersets (Bio and Shield) have a taunt aura, and these two are arguably the best BEFORE the taunt aura is weighed in.