Attacking Civilians

[Player2]

Playing on both both blue and redside, you can often find NPCs holding civilians at gunpoint or otherwise intimidating them into submission.

 

Player villains, however, can do no such thing.  Civilians are just these invulnerable set dressing pieces walking around.

 

Would love it if we could attack those people... even if it auto-killed with no XP or hit without doing damage but causing them to flee to the nearest door for safety.  It would just feel more villainous.

[TemporalVileTerror]

They actually added the ability to attack and defeat civilians in Mayhem missions.  There's even a Badge for taking down 1,000 of them:  Terminator.

 

But . . . yeah.  More opportunities to make  . . . "use" of civilians Redside would be a good step toward delivering on some player-agency.

[Legree]

II'm not averse to using a quick Energy Torrent to clear my field of fire inside a bank... but overall this is a no for me.

 

It's actually safer to be a civilian in the Rogue Isles than in Paragon City.  Sure you might get infected with toxic waste and become a green eyed zombie, but that's for SCIENCE.  There's only a few groups in the Isles that actively target civilians in the street - like the Vahzilok in Cap Au Diable - and I like that.  It suggests a certain code of honor among villains that they only take on those that have signed up for the life by putting on a costume.

 

"No women, no kids" - Leon.

 

It's one of the reasons why Westin Phipps evokes such strong reactions - he absolutely crosses that line and drags our characters along with him.

 

On a less meta level it's easier to switch back and forth between targets with tab when I'm only able to target hostiles.

[Monos King]

Yeah I'd like to kill everyone, yes for me.

[Leogunner]

Only if you give that option to hero side too and killing civilians accumulates xp debt.

[Naomi]

I like the idea of adding more depth to regular gameplay, so while it's probably a technical nightmare, I wouldn't mind having a player's alignment changed to hostile for a period of time (other players can freely attack them) if they assault or 'harass' civilians.. which could either be non-defeatable (someone you can stomp kick around while they try to run away, yelling different things) or defeatable after some abuse (enough you don't do it accidentally), with both instances resulting in different yet-to-be-implemented-consequence-mechanics.

 

Ideally, if someone is marked hostile, attacking the player (and only when you decide to engage) means they can then attack you in return.

 

The target tab thing Legree pointed out would bother me though, as well as the almost guaranteed possibility that you would be attacking every NPC you tried to help from a purse snatching with AoE attacks.

[TemporalVileTerror]

I'm not personally eager to see players able to attack Civilians in Public Zones.  I was thinking more along the lines of introducing more content with civilian NPCs like in the existing Mayhem Missions.  I figure that would allow players the opportunity to take out their frustrations without potentially overhauling a long-standing and fundamental part of the game.

 

However, IF the direction this goes is the ability to attack civilians in the streets, then there are two points I'd like to discuss further:
 
The targeting conditions are definitely a good point against the introduction of such a change.
BUT I wonder if there is a level of fidelity possible by creating a new Villain Alignment.  "Villain, Hostile to Civilians" or something like that.  Basically copy-paste the existing Villain Alignment, but add a flag to it that civies are either enemy orange-targets or neutral yellow-targets, depending on which makes the most sense.
Alternatively to that; make the civies yellow-targets, BUT remove yellow-targets from the normal targeting conditions of the /target_enemy_next and introduce a new /target_neutral_next command (and all associated commands).  This would affect gameplay in Praetoria a bit, but not much else, I think.

 

@Naomi, given some of the previous discussions related to PvP in this game, I don't think your plan would necessarily be well received as-is.

However, for your potential consideration, here is a post I made a while ago with an alternative:

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/22335-consideration-of-report-incursion-feature-in-theoretical-unrestricted-access-by-alignment-game/

I hope the idea expressed here is acceptable to your vision, while still maintaining a more collectively prosocial gameplay experience for everyone.

[Greycat]

Maybe as an option.

 

For the most part, my villains want to get rich, get revenge on something, or rule over people. Not massacre them.

[Darmian]

I built a set of civilians (enemies that have no powers basically, and give no XP) for an AE specifically to cause havoc to players as "Innocents get caught in the line of fire", as AOEs kill them, and tabbing includes them, allowing actual hostiles to technically, if not narrative-wise, use them as human shields.  It's interesting for a mission.  I don't think I'd actually want to see it in open world though.

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Darmian

[Myrmidon]

48 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Maybe as an option.

 

For the most part, my villains want to get rich, get revenge on something, or rule over people. Not massacre them.

“Some (wo)men just want to watch the world burn.”

[Arbegla]

I've been playing a lot Goldside, and they have the 'Angry Citizen' group, which is basically normal citizens, with a rock throw power (and maybe brawl?) that don't do much damage, but you can attack. Maybe having something like that H or V side as well, Could be protesters, and attacking them could temporarily turn surrounding PPD or Longbow hostile?

I noticed that with the revamp to the zones (Hollows, Faultline) there are more 'Ally' NPCs around then there used to be, so having a chance to 'lose your backup' if you become too aggressive makes sense.

[Galaxy Brain]

Doesn't go far enough, enable Hurl from Super Strength and Propel from Gravity to use civilians as weapons