Open pools to level 1

[Incursion]

Hi all, I propose lowering pool powers to start at level 1 which actually enables a character to skip both of their 2 primary choices if they so choose.

 

why you may ask?

pool powers have been getting a lot of attention both on what’s live and what’s going through Beta. With pool powers expanded to 5 selections it will cost more power choices to get your character through those pools (obviously). Also now we have 3 new pool choices which offer interesting power selections/utility/ and the 3 new ones have pretty epic high tier powers which are attractive.
 

By being able to skip your primary 2 choices either at the start of the game or respec, we can dive right in. In many sets not all, at least one primary power is skipped, or is later not used as characters get heavier dmg or more control, some sets those 2 powers are integral. With this change the player has the choice, and it isn’t changing the amount of powers we get, gives more reason to slot precursor powers not that they are in the lineup, at least for the early game.

 

ive been playing with sorcery on a new blaster, I really like the fact that I get 2 decent offensive options at the start, made me think, I’d rather slot this than my dot blast I picked up during character creation. Anyway, I don’t this would break anything and could work within the existing framework, enable some neat options down the line for tight builds. 

 

thoughts?

Edited March 14, 2021 by Incursion

[Incursion]

Also I didn’t mention secondary where you have to take the first power. Maybe that isn’t required either, so maybe to refine the idea, you can open a pool or pools and access tier 1 powers only in the pools and then at appropriate level can take another etc. goal here is just to be able to skip an unwanted power or powers from the primary/secondary if you choose. There’s just so many mule or path powers that are taken out of necessity rather than wanting to use them. 

[Greycat]

No thanks. For much the same reason we don't have freeform power selection or (say) buff/buff ATs. Too easy to make an essentially unplayable character.  For instance:

"I want to be a healer!"

Picks /empathy or /pain. "I'm a pacifist!"

Skips tier1/2 powers. Starts loading up on Teleport, Medicine, Leadership, Stealth.

Then starts complaining: "Hey, I can't solo!"

 

... no kidding.

 

Just no.

[Incursion]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

No thanks. For much the same reason we don't have freeform power selection or (say) buff/buff ATs. Too easy to make an essentially unplayable character.  For instance:

"I want to be a healer!"

Picks /empathy or /pain. "I'm a pacifist!"

Skips tier1/2 powers. Starts loading up on Teleport, Medicine, Leadership, Stealth.

Then starts complaining: "Hey, I can't solo!"

 

... no kidding.

 

Just no.

Unplayable character for not being forced to take 1-2 powers at the start that often get pushed aside later on? I think that’s a bit of a stretch especially in a game that’s literally played by people who used to play the game.  People often don’t want to be forced playing a certain way, I know that’s been used in argument against some things I say, the game is introducing more powers to the pools yet still forces these powers on us. We’ll agree to disagree, fair enough 

 

 

forgot to add, offering it via respec feature alleviates the concern for people building unplayable characters if that’s even a thing

Edited March 14, 2021 by Incursion

[Doc_Scorpion]

No, thank you.
 

4 hours ago, Incursion said:

In many sets not all, at least one primary power is skipped, or is later not used as characters get heavier dmg or more control

That's an opinion, not a fact.  There is a difference.

[Incursion]

15 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

No, thank you.
 

That's an opinion, not a fact.  There is a difference.

So what? I’m not asking for them to be removed or taken away. Very few sets in melee and ranged do I see people take both, that’s an opinion for sure, neither you or I have the stats to back that up. Either way, that doesn’t impact the idea as it’s giving people more choice now that we are given more options in pools. It’s not game-breaking I don’t see how anyone could be opposed to it. So far the only comment against the idea is that it may cause someone to make an ineffective build, which is also just an opinion and not fact. 
 

you could at least give a specific reason for saying no. 

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Incursion

[skeletor64]

I kinda like this, don’t see the harm in it. 

[Doc_Scorpion]

10 minutes ago, Incursion said:

you could at least give a specific reason for saying no. 

I am not required to do so.  Please review this post from the GM's.

 

13 minutes ago, Incursion said:

that’s an opinion for sure, neither you or I have the stats to back that up.

True, but you phrased the statement as a factual one.  Hence my comment.
 

[Incursion]

29 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

I am not required to do so.  Please review this post from the GM's.

 

True, but you phrased the statement as a factual one.  Hence my comment.
 

I said in many sets not all, but I’m not going to argue semantics as it doesn’t further the conversation.
 

You may not be required to do so as you said, but it would be constructive and helpful to me to understand your reasoning on why you don’t like the idea.
 

 

“If you don’t like it, no problem.  Just say “I don’t like it”.  You don't have to say why if you don’t want to.  If you have a reason why you don’t like it, please tell us why.  Focus your response on the idea, not the person. “
 

I hope it’s the idea and not the person, clearly I left a bad impression to some yesterday and

I’m trying to keep this topic constructive. I don’t want another thread locked because I really like this idea and wanted to test the waters. If you feel inclined, great. If not no biggie.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Incursion

[Normal Thomas]

I think power pool selection at lvl 4 is fine where it is. While I do suppose a "super pool boy" would be pretty funny, I don't see any need for power pools opening up at an even lower level.

[Incursion]

Just now, Normal Thomas said:

I think power pool selection at lvl 4 is fine where it is. While I do suppose a "super pool boy" would be pretty funny, I don't see any need for power pools opening up at an even lower level.

Funny you say that, I tried using the name pool girl and pool boy on excelsior and both were taken!

[Outrider_01]

Travel power only, no hasten/CJ/Teleport Target/Hover.

 

5 hours ago, Incursion said:

By being able to skip your primary 2 choices

Yeah...no.  There was a recent debate on not being tied to certain pools because of certain useful powers; which didn't turn out too well.  This smacks of not being tied to "skippable" powers to again; "free up options" because you are stuck with something you don't want to get something you desire but can't fit in the build.

 

As long as you are locked out of the 18/26/32 powers on primary and 28/35/39 on the secondary; where most sets have the best powers, to get that one desirable power to make room.  You got to give something up, it shouldn't be limited to the first 2 powers just be cause "lol low tier."

[FrauleinMental]

I could almost see it happening at level 2, but frankly I think level 4 is too early to be branching out except maybe for a travel power.  You choose your primary and secondary before you even enter the game, so I'd be surprised if skipping one or both of those didn't have some deep-rooted consequence in the spaghetti code, for reasons similar to not ever being able to respec to different primary/secondary.

 

I main a mind/kin controller, and I use my T1 primary and secondary powers all the time.  If you're in a position where you don't want the T1 powers in your primary/secondary, you might double-check to see if you actually want to play those power sets at all.

[Incursion]

45 minutes ago, Outrider_01 said:

Travel power only, no hasten/CJ/Teleport Target/Hover.

 

Yeah...no.  There was a recent debate on not being tied to certain pools because of certain useful powers; which didn't turn out too well.  This smacks of not being tied to "skippable" powers to again; "free up options" because you are stuck with something you don't want to get something you desire but can't fit in the build.

 

As long as you are locked out of the 18/26/32 powers on primary and 28/35/39 on the secondary; where most sets have the best powers, to get that one desirable power to make room.  You got to give something up, it shouldn't be limited to the first 2 powers just be cause "lol low tier."

This actually has nothing to do with a specific build where I’m trying squeeze out one extra choice or the other thread which was about aoe on whirling hands/power crush, shadow meld, melee characters outside of brutes having to take an extra mule/path power to access their aoe (which I guess this has the most resemblance but wasn’t my intent); and of course the hasten, which is what mainly led myself and others down to the principals office. I have multiple characters that have room for throw away powers. I just find that I have too many throw aways on some builds and its wasteful. It’s also prevented me from slotting powers because if I have say boxing and barrage or energy punch, I’m likely only slotting one and in my case neither of them even fit my attack chain and I can’t respec out of the first picks. I’m simply not using them, but I’m putting slots there for io’s it’s just another mule. I feel like we have too many mules and that’s why I’d like to see pools opened up at the start. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Incursion

[Mezmera]

This is a ponderous one.  On one hand muh traditions.  On the other a few of my characters first few powers are sitting in the dustbin and having two free powers in essence to make them better would be a fabulous thing.  Most of my toons would still just take their first powers but the few that could dabble straight into the pools would appreciate this.  I guess I'm in the camp of "okay".

[Incursion]

1 minute ago, FrauleinMental said:

I could almost see it happening at level 2, but frankly I think level 4 is too early to be branching out except maybe for a travel power.  You choose your primary and secondary before you even enter the game, so I'd be surprised if skipping one or both of those didn't have some deep-rooted consequence in the spaghetti code, for reasons similar to not ever being able to respec to different primary/secondary.

 

I main a mind/kin controller, and I use my T1 primary and secondary powers all the time.  If you're in a position where you don't want the T1 powers in your primary/secondary, you might double-check to see if you actually want to play those power sets at all.

Controllers and dominators I almost certainly use both and I would most likely choose those first whether this was implemented or not.  Melee characters and range I often skip one of the two because there are so many dmg options either in the pool or in epics etc they become io mules

[The_Warpact]

Tossing my hat in with the no crowd, its easy enough at lvl 4 to access power pools. Considering that you can be at lvl 4 in what, like 5 minutes?

You choose your primary and secondary for a reason and then you want to skip them to take other powers not even in the set? Nah, its ok hard pass.

[Incursion]

5 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

Tossing my hat in with the no crowd, its easy enough at lvl 4 to access power pools. Considering that you can be at lvl 4 in what, like 5 minutes?

You choose your primary and secondary for a reason and then you want to skip them to take other powers not even in the set? Nah, its ok hard pass.

some primary sets have powers that are meant for leveling and in many cases aren’t used later on as more powers from those sets become available. You may choose a primary or secondary for a reason, but you also have no other choice. I just don’t get why the choice can’t be ours on at a least a respec. 

[MTeague]

This, I would support.  I don't have many characters I'd use option on... but I do have a few. 

And really, skipping Jab but taking ... what? Flurry? Jump Kick?  Boxing?  I'm not feeling anything wildly OP here.

 

[Incursion]

4 minutes ago, MTeague said:

This, I would support.  I don't have many characters I'd use option on... but I do have a few. 

And really, skipping Jab but taking ... what? Flurry? Jump Kick?  Boxing?  I'm not feeling anything wildly OP here.

 

Well you could take a debuff, a blast from sorcery, Boxing or kick if you are going the fighting pool anyway. Basically getting rid of a fluff pick really. If you are going to the pools you have to take something anyway.  Respec makes more sense than at game start.

[Haijinx]

Dont see a reason for this.

 

But if this change were made it wouldn't really change anything.

 

So I'm not opposed to it either.

 

 

 

[SwitchFade]

Sorry, no vote.

[EmperorSteele]

I could see maybe opening up the travel pools immediately (or heck, make the main travel power a free pick at character creation along with your other 2 powers), but not the rest of the pools.

[Incursion]

16 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

I could see maybe opening up the travel pools immediately (or heck, make the main travel power a free pick at character creation along with your other 2 powers), but not the rest of the pools.

Not a bad idea. I'd be okay with having to make 1 pick in either my primary or secondary, but not 2 picks.  Melee typically gets an integral power in their armor at the start, so maybe your idea 1 travel pick makes sense, and then they choose 2 out of the 3 options on primary/secondary  Character Respec fits it best in my view though as you've already been forced to try the power, see how the set works, then choose to opt out of maybe a power or 2 that you don't use later on. If you use it, great those would be your picks.  I still haven't seen any good examples of how this would harm the game outside of one comment that said people could make an ineffective character.  Respec's are easy to obtain, and this game is quite old,  I think the focus should be making changes that are fun and give players a little more freedom than in the pay to play days.