Invulenerability.

[kelika2]

Realistic request:

Swap Resist Elements and Invincibility.  Reason why: its the taunt aura for brutes and scrappers.  Its pretty brutal trying to get through lower level content

 

Unrealistic requests:

Merge Resist Elements and Energies

Bump Invincibility and Tough Hide up a tier

New t8 ability called Thick Skin, strait up Absorb click

Adding +dmg% or a 100% proc chance to Unstoppable and halving the crash to 50%hp/50%end.  I mean if you are unstoppable, wont you hit a little harder or deal a little extra smashing damage?

 

New Set would look like this

Resist Physical Damage

Temp Invul

Dull Pain

Resist Elements

Unyielding

Invincibility

Tough Hide

Thick Skin

Unstoppable

 

Either change would have Invincibility at level 10 or 20(15 if exemp)

Edited March 25, 2021 by kelika2

[kelika2]

Just now, kelika2 said:

 

I am not used to the new Edit button location and quoted myself

Edited March 25, 2021 by kelika2

[Haijinx]

13 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Realistic request:

Swap Resist Elements and Invincibility.  Reason why: its the taunt aura for brutes and scrappers.  Its pretty brutal trying to get through lower level content

 

 

Wouldn't be bad if it came earlier on tankers either.  Even a swap with Resist Energies would be an improvement. 

[Zeraphia]

I'm sorry, this probably isn't what you want to hear, but I'm really not feeling the need for an Invul buff. I can get behind the swaps for the taunt auras, that makes sense, but on both Tank/Brute you inherently possess taunt on *all* of your powers. Invul may not be the "flashy new kid on the block" but it's a tried and true classic, it works very well and I'm genuinely not seeing the need for this. I think there are other sets quite frankly (Battle Axe, Kinetic Melee, Energy Blast, Ice Control, etc.) that need buffing a lot more than Invulnerability does.

[MTeague]

Hm. Well, I was going to say lots of brute secondaries have to wait for taunt auras... but Invulnerability does seem to be an extreme case at 28.  Some are 20.  A lot are 16.  So that part, ya maybe. 

 

I can't get behind the rest though. Invulnerability is among the LAST classic sets I would say needs looking at. 

It's nothing super flashy, but it's like that old reliable pickup truck that just always works and always gets the job done.  

[Haijinx]

Just now, Zeraphia said:

I'm sorry, this probably isn't what you want to hear, but I'm really not feeling the need for an Invul buff. I can get behind the swaps for the taunt auras, that makes sense, but on both Tank/Brute you inherently possess taunt on *all* of your powers. Invul may not be the "flashy new kid on the block" but it's a tried and true classic, it works very well and I'm genuinely not seeing the need for this. I think there are other sets quite frankly (Battle Axe, Kinetic Melee, Energy Blast, Ice Control, etc.) that need buffing a lot more than Invulnerability does.

The power level swap wouldn't change the overall power level though. 

[EmperorSteele]

I mean, on one hand, that's a pretty neat idea... On the other hand, does Invuln need this, specifically the absorb clicky? I mean, it already has a click heal/+MaxHP power for when you're biting off more than you can chew. An absorb shield just seems superfluous.

The +damage to Unstop does sound nice, and might get me to actually take the power, as well as add some parity with some of the other armor sets that are "so uber" because they increase your damage... but I feel like it's not something invuln needs. The other sets that add damage are usually giving up something in exchange (like Fire armor giving up... pretty much everything except fire resists for a bunch of extra damage), so this might make Invul a little OP. Though since the damage DOES come with a crash, that might help keep things interesting.

I'm not AS against this as some other folks might be, but I'm also only lukewarm at best. 😃

[Yomo Kimyata]

I'm also lukewarm, but it's fair to ask what does Invulnerability lack that other sets have?

 

Damage aura and endurance management tools.

 

I'm not saying that it *must* have them, but it is a reason I don't have many invulnerability alts.

[kelika2]

43 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

I mean, on one hand, that's a pretty neat idea... On the other hand, does Invuln need this, specifically the absorb clicky? I mean, it already has a click heal/+MaxHP power for when you're biting off more than you can chew. An absorb shield just seems superfluous.

Because i could not think of anything else that would be useful without breaking the theme of the set.  Mechanically, bullets do not bounce off Invuls, but with the idea of Thick Skin, yeah I can see it.

 

Now, Smashing and Lethal damage is not hard to get high or cap on many secondary sets.  My radi tank is sitting around 85%, dark tank around 80%, willpowers all 79-85% range and Invul not being special anymore in that regard I thought hey why not.

 

... nameswap.

 

The name Dull Pain does not mean you take less, just take more.  Maybe rename Dull Pain to Thick Skin.  And maybe Dull Pain can be the Absorb.

[kelika2]

58 minutes ago, MTeague said:

Invulnerability is among the LAST classic sets I would say needs looking at.

It almost is the last of the classic sets to be looked at.  To my memory the classic sets are:

Invul

Dark

Stone

Fiery

Reflex

Regen?

Energy Aura?

Not sure how accurate ParagonWiki is, but pre issue 11 are classic, and were available to brutes and scrappers

 

Reflex always felt like its held back by its name, but it did get some changes over time like scaling resists from autos, and defense debuff resist.  resist which easily caps itself

Fire is fire cmon

Stone armor is getting some buffs, that Rooted change on Beta might be the tipping point for many people.  I know it will for me at least.

Dark armor has always been a sleeper.. set.  I think their Cloak of Darkness got a defense buff and immobilization protection at some point after release. 

Regen is.. is.. might take priority over this theoretical Invul change

No wiki info on energy auras release date, but I dont ever remember making one so another tossup.

[Captain Citadel]

I'm not really sure Invuln needs a buff that badly, and I say this as someone who plays my Invuln/SS Tanker almost daily. Moving Invincibility up towards the front end of the set is a good idea, as well as maybe turning Dull Pain into an absorb shield. But I don't think there's much to do about Unstoppable. Nobody really takes it, but I always thought that was because it's just not needed in the age of IO sets. You can completely plug the Psionic and Toxic resistance holes with set bonuses.

[ScarySai]

Invuln's in a pretty good spot right now, especially if a t9 buff ever comes for the armor sets.

[twozerofoxtrot]

I'd respectfully pass on all of this If Invul were to get a tweak, I advocate porting the Sentinel version over. Doing that thematically mirrors most of what you're asking for, adds endurance (and therefor recovery), and makes Invincibility benefit more from +Def slotting with a higher baseline number (should be +10 DEF for Tankers, +7.5 for other melee).

 

But I'm with most here: other sets around the game need love first.

[America's Angel]

Invuln is the baseline by which other sets are balanced. It is absolutely fine as it is. It is also one of the best armour sets in the game, it does not need a buff.

 

The only thing that needs tweaking is the removal of the crash from the T9.

 

That's it. Do not reinvent/redesign a beloved powerset. It will upset people.

[kelika2]

6 hours ago, America's Angel said:

Invuln is the baseline by which other sets are balanced.

I never heard this before.

[srmalloy]

7 hours ago, America's Angel said:

Invuln is the baseline by which other sets are balanced. It is absolutely fine as it is.

The only thing that needs tweaking is the removal of the crash from the T9.

So it's "absolutely fine" as it is... but it needs a change. A curious definition of "absolutely fine".      😄

[golstat2003]

24 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

So it's "absolutely fine" as it is... but it needs a change. A curious definition of "absolutely fine".      😄

 

LOL.

 

I think the T9 crash removal would be for all tier 9s, not just Invul. So technically not just an Invul change. 😛 

[America's Angel]

24 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

I think the T9 crash removal would be for all tier 9s, not just Invul. So technically not just an Invul change. 😛 

 

Ding ding we have a winner.

[Andreah]

I skip T9's with crashes. I hate them so. 

 

The only exception is Rage, and I hate it too, but that's another powerset.

 

On my Inv character, I just keep large or super insps when I need short term extra survivability.

[Haijinx]

8 hours ago, America's Angel said:

Invuln is the baseline by which other sets are balanced. It is absolutely fine as it is. It is also one of the best armour sets in the game, it does not need a buff.

 

The only thing that needs tweaking is the removal of the crash from the T9.

 

That's it. Do not reinvent/redesign a beloved powerset. It will upset people.

I think something like unstoppable would need toned down in power and duration if it had no crash.

 

But considering how powerful it is, there's a lot of room to work with there. 

[golstat2003]

1 hour ago, Andreah said:

I skip T9's with crashes. I hate them so. 

 

The only exception is Rage, and I hate it too, but that's another powerset.

 

On my Inv character, I just keep large or super insps when I need short term extra survivability.

 

I pretty much pop pills (insp) to avoid the idiocy of the rage crash., whenever I see it coming. If SS was better without Rage,  I'd ALWAYS skip Rage.

 

Also yeah I don't take anything that has a crash. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. The nukes used to be pretty much not taken at all, as per the Paragon Studios live devs.

 

Hence why the crashes were removed from the nukes.

Edited March 29, 2021 by golstat2003

[golstat2003]

42 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I think something like unstoppable would need toned down in power and duration if it had no crash.

 

But considering how powerful it is, there's a lot of room to work with there. 

 

I could live with this.

[America's Angel]

1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

I think something like unstoppable would need toned down in power and duration if it had no crash.

 

But considering how powerful it is, there's a lot of room to work with there. 

As one of the few people who actually use Unstoppable - hard pass on this.

 

I would prefer 180s uptime and a crash to what you are suggesting. The crash can be worked around by players who know what they're doing. What you are suggesting is actually a nerf in a live play environment.

[Haijinx]

2 hours ago, America's Angel said:

As one of the few people who actually use Unstoppable - hard pass on this.

 

I would prefer 180s uptime and a crash to what you are suggesting. The crash can be worked around by players who know what they're doing. What you are suggesting is actually a nerf in a live play environment.

 

You want to be able to cap all resistances (70% unehnaced) but PSI for 3 minutes with no crash with one power ..

 

When the most comparable power SOW isn't even close to that is up 2 minutes with a 50% crash and is only 25% SL / 12.5% others ?

 

 

[Captain Citadel]

3 hours ago, America's Angel said:

As one of the few people who actually use Unstoppable - hard pass on this.

 

I would prefer 180s uptime and a crash to what you are suggesting. The crash can be worked around by players who know what they're doing. What you are suggesting is actually a nerf in a live play environment.

Can I just ask what you use Unstoppable for? You can more or less achieve the effect of perma-Unstoppable's mitigation through IO sets without ever having to actually take the power. Maybe not actually 70% resistance to everything plus capped S/L resistance, but with the right IO slotting you have enough defenses that 50-60% resists are plenty.