Instant Healing: why hasn't it been reverted to a toggle yet?

[LEUGIM6]

I know this has probably been asked before but I couldn't find anywhere so apologies in advance.

 

Instant Healing nerf was one of THE greatest injustices done during the live version of the game. 
But most especially now, with IOs and the regular OPness of lots of builds, Regen is lacking in power. Even with IH up, at the Incarnate level and the amount of alphas flying left and right, it wouldn't keep you alive regardless.

 

So, considering that there are currently a lot more OP builds and powers, why hasn't IH been reverted to a toggle already? Probably would have to be made incompatbile with MOG but...why not change it on the test server and see how it goes?

Edited April 3, 2021 by BioFlame

[Crysis]

Play Regen on a Sentinel.  It almost makes Regen liveable again.

[LEUGIM6]

5 minutes ago, Crysis said:

Play Regen on a Sentinel.  It almost makes Regen liveable again.

Yeah, but why not on a scrapper?

What's  wrong with IH ? What's "more wrong" with IH than so many other OP powers currently ingame?

[Lazarillo]

3 hours ago, BioFlame said:

So, considering that there are currently a lot more OP builds and powers, why hasn't IH been reverted to a toggle already?

As a thought, perhaps this is why, in a roundabout way.  Making IH into a toggle isn't really likely to fix the problems that /Regen has.  So rather than give it a meaningless buff, perhaps they're trying to determine a way to make it something that can bolster the set's shortcomings?

[summers]

Maybe it could be a toggle that increases the amount of healing you get based on the number of enemies around you?

[America's Angel]

Because regen on a brute is unironically the best tanking set in the game.

[SaintD]

5 hours ago, BioFlame said:

So, considering that there are currently a lot more OP builds and powers, why hasn't IH been reverted to a toggle already?

Because instant healing as an easy toggle stacked with I/O defence and resist values. That's why.

[LEUGIM6]

4 hours ago, SaintD said:

Because instant healing as an easy toggle stacked with I/O defence and resist values. That's why.

 

Again, I am not saying IH could not have its numbers tweaked. That's not what I mean.

 

What I mean  is: in the current state of the game, which has a lot more "broken stuff" than IH,  why hasn't IH been reverted back to a toggle and THEN, if too OP, tweak its numbers?

(Kinda like they did with Titan Weapons).

I mean, it is not like IH is more broken than half of the current builds and powers (looking at you , Novas every 30scds or less).

 

And if we "judge" a power because of the existance of IO and sets, well....then almost every power would be nerfed to the ground, no?

Edited April 3, 2021 by BioFlame

[Vulpoid]

11 hours ago, BioFlame said:

why hasn't IH been reverted to a toggle already?

Because then it would be called Constant Healing.

[LEUGIM6]

24 minutes ago, Vulpoid said:

Because then it would be called Constant Healing.

 

That's how it was on live. And there's also constant healings like Rise to the Challenge, IO procs, etc..

[CaptTastic]

35 minutes ago, BioFlame said:

 

That's how it was on live. And there's also constant healings like Rise to the Challenge, IO procs, etc..

For most of the time on Live it wasn't a toggle. 

 

Don't see anything wrong with IH as a situational buff, particularly with MoG there too. Regen definitely better on a Sentinel in my opinion, but making it overpowered right out of the box by making IH a toggle again won't fix anything. That's even more so when Regens can still add defence on top with IOs,

[srmalloy]

10 hours ago, summers said:

Maybe it could be a toggle that increases the amount of healing you get based on the number of enemies around you?

I've long felt that Instant Healing should be a toggle that makes every hit act like how illusory damage works -- you take all the damage, then a short time later, an enhanceable portion of that damage 'instantly' heals. One of the problems with Instant Healing was that, like the rest of the set, it just made you heal more -- if you take a hit for 90% of your hit points, you heal that damage over and over again until it's gone. Once you reduce the incoming damage to less than your healing rate, you're unkillable. Making IH a toggle that works once against each incoming hit makes it balanceable against the other defenses.

[MTeague]

It is also possible, that the HC Dev's simply disagree with the premise that making it a non-perma click power was "one of THE greatest injustices done during the live version of the game".

[DoctorDitko]

All I know is I tried a Regen Scrapper and was extremely underwhelmed. Could use a buff, IMO.

[LEUGIM6]

2 hours ago, MTeague said:

It is also possible, that the HC Dev's simply disagree with the premise that making it a non-perma click power was "one of THE greatest injustices done during the live version of the game".

 

I don't think you really know or remember what happened back in the day, for Instant Healing to have been one of the greatest injustices done during live.

 

Quick recap (skipping some juicy details for the sake of being brief):

After 2-3 nerfs in a row, plus GDN+ED, Statesman yet again says they are concerned with Regen and famously says "Small concern=Small tweak, don't worry Regeners" (quoting verbatim).

They propose a brutal nerf to Regen, players react poorly asking "Why such a big nerf?" and Statesman replies that Regeners are Tanking 10-12 mobs +12lvls above them, at the same time and surviving. Most players don't believe and ask for proof.

Statesman releases a video of a Dark/Regen scrapper going against 10 mobs +12lvls above him and not only surviving but utterly destroying the mobs, usually one-shotting them.

 

Some clever players tell Statesman that it seems their internal test server is lacking the famous purple patch because there's no way any class can one-shot a +12lvl mob, let alone 10 of those mobs at the same time.

Statesman goes and check and famously says "Ooops. You guys are correct, our internal server IS lacking the purple patch. Ooops".

 

(this was during a weekend).

 

The forums rejoice, we as players avoided an injustice.

Come patch day....Regen is nerfed EXACTLY like planned, not even one comma was changed. It was as if we didn't prove their supposed metric for the nerf was wrong. 

The nerf was never reversed. Ever.

 

So yeah....it was one of THE greatest injustices from live. I didn't claim it was THE greatest EVER, but it surely ranks amongst the greatest injustices done in live.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Instant Healing and whether or not it is OP, my reasoning is:

Is it more or less OP than the current shenanigans some ATs do?

Novas every 30 scds or less, unkillable tanks, uber scrappers, solo-able MMs, Trollers, etc etc.....

 

...but IH is the one that's totally more OP than all the rest? For real?

Edited April 3, 2021 by BioFlame

[CaptTastic]

3 hours ago, BioFlame said:

And Instant Healing and whether or not it is OP, my reasoning is:

Is it more or less OP than the current shenanigans some ATs do?

Novas every 30 scds or less, unkillable tanks, uber scrappers, solo-able MMs, Trollers, etc etc.....

 

...but IH is the one that's totally more OP than all the rest? For real?

Think the major difference is that those other builds you mentioned are that good with the help of IOs. If IH went back to its old version, Regen would be that good out of the box without any need for IOs. Then people would be free to stack massive resist/def bonuses on top through set bonuses. 

 

Regen maybe needs a little more help somewhere. I'd be all for a small buff here or there. Don't think restoring IH to its issue 2 incarnation would be that, though. 

[Infinitum]

4 hours ago, America's Angel said:

Despite what the bad players with 1000+ posts on this forum will tell you, regen is objectively the #1 tanking set in this game.

 

I'm always open to being told otherwise from people who actually play regen in 2021. But the hard numbers don't lie...regen is more durable than any other armour set in the game.

 

This is why I get anxious whenever "buff regen" threads pick up steam. I'd hate to see the most powerful armour set buffed just because the vast majority of people don't know how to use it.

 

Don't make changes to the game that can be fixed by a tutorial. lol

I can chug thousands of inspirations on a petless mastermind and "tank" like a boss too.

 

That has nothing to do with the armor or lack thereof in this case.

[The Chairman]

@America's Angel, perhaps you could elaborate on why you believe /Regen to be the best tanking set.

[GM Kaiju]

Removed several off topic and non value added posts. Stay on topic please and do not post memes or emoji replies.

Edited April 4, 2021 by GM Kaiju

[Heraclea]

I never played Regen during its heyday and have no personal memory of how it used to play.  I very much doubt that it is the best tanking set in the game.  I made a staff/regen brute with the specific intention of making that one a tanking brute.  It kinda sorta works, after cleaning out the base of defense bonus IOs, but it still wouldn't be the brute I'd take to a master run. 

 

My longstanding suggestion is: if you're going to offer players an armor set with zero defense, paltry resistances outside of a 15 second interval, and a bunch of click heals on different timers, it needs to have the ability to do its different thing preserved.  Regen should offer solid resistance to the point of practical immunity to -heal, -HP, -recharge, -end, and endurance draining.  These buffs would not be game breaking outside of content that's broken already.  Their only effect would be to allow regen to use its click heals and buffs, whose benefits are too often debuffed away in some game content. 

[BlackHearted]

While I can not speak to the reasoning behind other peoples decisions, I can fairly confidently say that IH being just put back to a toggle as a stand alone change would def be OP... it was like that on another CoX server  before they shut down, and I could tank anything with just SOs.. like go afk in front of 3-4 +4 mobs and def not be dead 10 mins later when I came back... so from a balance perspective doing just that change seems like a bad idea.

As for other things that could be done to the set, it seems like a lot of work to redo an OG set all together when it's quite clearly the #1 armor in pvp.. and arguably one of the better armors for teaming in pve.... granted it's not the kind of set where you can park afk  infront of mobs and not die, but I have tanked almost everything in the game on my regen brute on HC and it for sure doesn't seem woefully underpowered and in need of buffing to me.

 

That said, if they wanna buff one of my favorite sets I'm not gonna put up a huge fight over it. 🤷‍♀️

Edited April 4, 2021 by BlackHearted

[Galaxy Brain]

@America's Angel, I would love to see the objective data on that! 🙂

 

4 hours ago, BlackHearted said:

clearly the #1 armor in pvp.. and arguably one of the better armors for teaming in pve..

 

Do you mean in PvP, Angel? As for the teaming bit this always confused me, there is nothing special about Regen in a team that a SR or Invuln wouldn't get either.

[Crysis]

 

In all seriousness, I’m not sure why Regen was nerfed as hard as it was, as frequently as it was, and then left whimpering in the corner.  It’s almost like the Devs at the time had “had enough” of stupid Regen tricks like tanking Hami, perma-MOG builds (those were crazy broken) and such.  So it became a series of increasing punitive nerfs to pretty much make the set unattractive to everyone.  IO’s restored the playability of the set if you were willing to layer up Defenses on top of the high regeneration/healing via set bonuses and/or switching between Shadow Meld, Rune of Protection, Barrier etc.
 

It’s just never going to be what it once was on a scrapper.  I was serious about the Sentinel version.  You should try one.  Sents have fairly weak offense but a Regen Sentinel is highly durable.

[MTeague]

54 minutes ago, Crysis said:

IO’s restored the playability of the set if you were willing to layer up Defenses on top of the high regeneration/healing via set bonuses and/or switching between Shadow Meld, Rune of Protection, Barrier etc.

 

your milage may vary, but for /Regen, I've found focusing on +Resistance set bonuses and some Defense on the side, is more reliable than trying to go all in on Defense and then watching as Cascade Failure sets in.  But as a qualifying statement, I do a lot more Story Arcs and Flashbacking and I'm almost never at 45+.  (the Incarnate game just doesn't do it for me)

[Crysis]

1 minute ago, MTeague said:

 

your milage may vary, but for /Regen, I've found focusing on +Resistance set bonuses and some Defense on the side, is more reliable than trying to go all in on Defense and then watching as Cascade Failure sets in.  But as a qualifying statement, I do a lot more Story Arcs and Flashbacking and I'm almost never at 45+.  (the Incarnate game just doesn't do it for me)

 

Agreed, you can go either way, which is why I snuck Rune of Protection in there.  Hybrid Melee is another great way to beef up on Resistance but obviously, along with Barrier, only available to Incarnates.