How do you play /traps? (Any AT)

[Arbegla]

Hey everyone, I've been mulling around making a /traps guide, but I've come to realize that I generally play it much differently than most people. (source, Forums posts, and in game comments)

 

Because of that, I wanted to know how do ya'll play /traps? Any AT really, though my main is a bot/traps MM. I even looked over the Weekely discussion about /traps, and how there was a consensus that Seeker Drones was really underwhelming. Any thoughts or comments are welcome.

[Onlyasandwich]

My primary traps character is a Traps/Beam Defender.

 

Basically I just keep the bubble up, open with seekers, drop acid mortar, and blast away. I have Seekers slotted with Decimation buildup proc, which actually procs super reliably upon summon, so they are both an alpha-breaker and a buff for my own alpha.

 

If it's a longer fight or I'm feeling froggy, I'll drop caltrops, which I have procced out. I might shoot my web envelope to keep the mob in there for duration, or I might let the area denial field do its job if needed.

 

Poison trap and triage come in on AVs. Triage is just sort whatever most of the time - I don't use it often. It's okay.

 

Since I have excellent blasts, I don't see much use for the mines/bombs. I think it's silly that Traps trip mine hasn't had the blaster /Devices buff treatment. I guess it's probably sort of useful on a controller.

 

Sometimes I just like to summon everything possible and admire my pile of junk. I even picked up a disruptor bot to join the party. She's mostly just for show, but she does a good bit of damage if you let her!

[Bionic_Flea]

I have several traps characters: Traps/Beam defender, Bots/Traps MM, AR/Traps corrupter, and Traps/Dual Pistols Defender.  I essentially play all of them similarly -- Superspeed with stealth with Force Field Generator and maybe seekers up; set procced out poison trap and acid mortar; and then from there either the Bots show up or I start firing up my AoEs.  I always skip time bomb - I have tried to use it but it's one of the worst powers in the game, IMO.

 

My newest is the Traps/Beam with the new fold space power from teleport pool.  It is awesome for Traps characters.  Set up your kill field nearby, then fold space everything into it!  Works great solo and even on teams if you can 'port the next mob to your group.

 

 

[Doomguide2005]

On 4/13/2021 at 7:09 PM, Arbegla said:

Hey everyone, I've been mulling around making a /traps guide, but I've come to realize that I generally play it much differently than most people. (source, Forums posts, and in game comments)

 

Because of that, I wanted to know how do ya'll play /traps? Any AT really, though my main is a bot/traps MM. I even looked over the Weekely discussion about /traps, and how there was a consensus that Seeker Drones was really underwhelming. Any thoughts or comments are welcome.

     So how do you play traps?

 

     I haven't played a Traps MM, nor is it likely I ever will.  Not my AT.  Mostly Corruptors taking both Fire/Traps and Sonic/Traps to 50 on Live. Had one Defender Traps/Fire played hardcore mode (died ☹) and never ran a Controller on Live.  Very likely to run an Illusion/Traps here on HC and probably others.

     Generally high recharge builds, stealthed via IO plus SS.  In with Seekers, place PGT in mob moving through to spot about 1/3 to 1/2 way to next mob drop AM +/- caltrops around mortar. Blasts interspersed on first mob between trap laying.  As first mob is dying either AM or I will fire on second mob pulling them.  Tend to alternate PGT with AM.  PGT set within spawns whereas I'll place AM between mobs (pulling mobs together).  Use caltrops and tripmines as area denial both to keep adds out and the targets kept from fleeing.  

     Haven't had much chance to play with procs in their current ppm state.  Did use procs in AM on Live under the older proc rules.

 

[Col. Kernel]

I played a Bots/Traps on Live as my main villain from Going Rogue on.

When I solo, I play Traps as chess, not speedball.  Park the bots a ways behind me, lay trip mines and PGT in a bit of a mine field, throw caltrops in front of it so the lead runner doesn't blow it all up, and pull with the rifle.  When the crowd is in the midst of being blown up I turn the bots lose on them.  Seeker Drones are kept summoned as a defensive option as is the ranged stun (Photon Grenade?), or deployed as the bots rush in.

 

On a team I primarily let someone else eat the alpha, or I use the Seekers to take the alpha, followed with Photon Grenade to stun as many as possible.  If there's a tank I let them gather the mobs up.

[Riverdusk]

On 4/13/2021 at 4:09 PM, Arbegla said:

how there was a consensus that Seeker Drones was really underwhelming. Any thoughts or comments are welcome.

 

I don't think that's really a consensus.  Just look at the comments so far and every single person uses it.  Although I can see them being more important to corrupter/defender (who can also use them as an alpha breaker), than a controller or MM who are perhaps more likely to already have that covered with other powers/pets.  But personally even on my Illusion/traps I still use seeker drones often enough I wouldn't drop them.

 

If they both hit a target that is a 10% tohit debuff (base) and a big -40% damage debuff (controller/corrupter/MM numbers, defenders get even more).  That is pretty dang powerful of a debuff, but some may just not realize because it isn't real obvious.  It is also a power that can effective even with minimal slotting, which is always nice.

[Bionic_Flea]

In a real tight build, I can see skipping seekers.  But it's hard to beat as a one slot wonder.  Without any slotting, each one can 1) draw aggro 2) reduce enemy tohit by 6.65%, 3) reduce enemy damage by 26%, 4) drops enemy perception by 90%, 5) 25% chance for a mag 2 stun, 6) minor damage (~14).  That's a lot that benefits you, your pets, and your team.

[Sir Myshkin]

On 4/19/2021 at 3:44 PM, Riverdusk said:

I don't think that's really a consensus

In this thread it’s only a couple of comments, but in the weekly threads that pop up when Traps was on the dock, Seeker Drones, Trip Mine, Time Bomb, those were all the common complaint powers.

 

 

In fact, I myself skip the Seekers as I find their utility massively, well... underwhelming. The debuff tends to only hit one target out of a spawn, doesn’t last long, and for an alpha breaker Traps is pretty easy to build robustly from a defense standpoint so there’s really just not a great amount of incentive in that power pick to me. More specifically Traps can be boiled down to just Caltrops (forced pick), FFG, Acid Mortar, Poison Trap, and Triage Beacon (which to some is even optional). Everything else in the set is just frill and fun and fancy stuff that otherwise doesn’t have any real significant impact.

[Otviss]

Yup. I skip seekers too. I looked at the numbers and understand that they are useful, but somehow found myself not using them as often. Besides, there's a whole lot of others things I can do instead of thinking I need to deploy them all the time. Triage beacon however is super underappreciated. Mine's fully slotted and can in many teams be a game changer. In TFs like ITF it's great when you're all bundled together fighting incoming crowds to drop a beacon. Mine provides +300% regen to nearby teammates and myself.

[Onlyasandwich]

8 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

skip the Seekers

For all of you that skip Seekers, I would encourage you to try the Decimation Build Up proc! @Nemu gave me the idea a while back, and it is super reliable. It's basically like having a build up power that doubles as a nifty debuff and alpha breaker.

 

[Arbegla]

10 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

In this thread it’s only a couple of comments, but in the weekly threads that pop up when Traps was on the dock, Seeker Drones, Trip Mine, Time Bomb, those were all the common complaint powers.

 

 

In fact, I myself skip the Seekers as I find their utility massively, well... underwhelming. The debuff tends to only hit one target out of a spawn, doesn’t last long, and for an alpha breaker Traps is pretty easy to build robustly from a defense standpoint so there’s really just not a great amount of incentive in that power pick to me. More specifically Traps can be boiled down to just Caltrops (forced pick), FFG, Acid Mortar, Poison Trap, and Triage Beacon (which to some is even optional). Everything else in the set is just frill and fun and fancy stuff that otherwise doesn’t have any real significant impact.

 

While I do understand why you would seem them as underwhelming, the debuff is actually really easy to perma, as it lasts for quite some time (I think 30 seconds?) and even with SO slotting, you can get the Seekers to recharge that fast.

I do agree that Trip Mine, Time Bomb, and Detonator need to be looked at, as they are very easily skippable powers.

[Onlyasandwich]

14 minutes ago, Arbegla said:

Trip Mine, Time Bomb

Honestly these are sort of a crime, especially on corruptors and defenders. At least controllers maybe have a little bit of use for a suboptimal aoe damage power like this.

 

What would be an interesting way to change them that still preserves their boominess to some degree, but actually gives them a proper use as a support skill? One challenge is that Traps is already a pretty strong buff/debuff set overall. I'm really not sure what I would add to them that wouldn't step on the toes of other powers in the set.

 

Maybe if Time Bomb were kinda tough and had a taunt effect - sort of like Omega Maneuver? 

 

[Arbegla]

59 minutes ago, Onlyasandwich said:

Honestly these are sort of a crime, especially on corruptors and defenders. At least controllers maybe have a little bit of use for a suboptimal aoe damage power like this.

 

What would be an interesting way to change them that still preserves their boominess to some degree, but actually gives them a proper use as a support skill? One challenge is that Traps is already a pretty strong buff/debuff set overall. I'm really not sure what I would add to them that wouldn't step on the toes of other powers in the set.

 

Maybe if Time Bomb were kinda tough and had a taunt effect - sort of like Omega Maneuver? 

 

 

Honestly, I'd love for something LRM rocket, or a thrown 'bomb' instead of mines. Especially for Time Bomb. Let me throw the thing into a group.

[Riverdusk]

And I think I was in that previous thread defending seekers too. 😄  And I still say the opinion on seekers seems divided enough that I wouldn't call any consensus on them.  Divided opinion is probably more apt.  I've also seen plenty of people call them "amazing" in various trap threads and in game, and even I wouldn't go that far.  Just a good solid power.  The build up proc is a good idea and will have to try that, thanks @Onlyasandwich

 

As to triage beacon, I would skip that one any day before seekers.  Triage is the power I only take if I really have spare room left over.   And only one, as if I have two powers I can fit in I'd rather grab medicine.  For triage at the least I'd like its recharge (and duration to be fair) cut in half.  Then at least you'd be able to make use of it more often with the speed that teams move.  Currently I find myself leaving it behind before its duration runs out almost every single time.  So, that long duration is wasted except in very rare circumstances anyway.

 

Trip mine just needs to get the blaster treatment (get rid of the interrupt as the main tweak) and it'd be great.  I still take it, but it just doesn't get a whole lot of use (pretty much pre-battle set up sometimes).  Trying to "toe bomb" with it just got too frustrating as too often I'd get interrupted, even when I didn't have any aggro on me at all.

 

Time bomb is the one I think 98% can agree is garbage.

[Heraclea]

Am I doing it wrong, or is Traps  the least team friendly support set?  So much depends on knowing where the next mob will be coming from.

[Riverdusk]

2 hours ago, Heraclea said:

Am I doing it wrong, or is Traps  the least team friendly support set?  So much depends on knowing where the next mob will be coming from.

 

Possibly, but force field generator alone often makes me happy to see one on a team (especially if I'm playing a squishie or there are just a lot of other supports on the team).  It also isn't hard to get out an acid mortar unless the team is moving so fast that likely any debuff set is of little use anyway.  Then when you run up against an AV/GM, traps is one of the best sets around for helping take them down.

 

 

 

[MTeague]

On 4/14/2021 at 10:11 AM, Bionic_Flea said:

My newest is the Traps/Beam with the new fold space power from teleport pool.  It is awesome for Traps characters.  Set up your kill field nearby, then fold space everything into it!  Works great solo and even on teams if you can 'port the next mob to your group.

Now I have to figure out how to work Teleportation into my Thugs/Traps MM. Love the idea, though.

[Arbegla]

4 hours ago, Heraclea said:

Am I doing it wrong, or is Traps  the least team friendly support set?  So much depends on knowing where the next mob will be coming from.

 

Even without counting Force Field Generator, /Traps has some pretty nice debuffs to provide to teams, in the form of Acid Mortar and Poison trap, both of which can be places within a group of mobs, they can't get interrupted, and their effects are AoEs. The Mortar might not seem like much, but the splash is HUGE, and the debuff lasts for 20 seconds, so even if it only gets off 1 or 2 shots, its enough to debuff the whole group.

 

Seeker Drones can be used before anyone jumps into the group, to soak the alpha, or can be used on top of a mob, as they will target the closest thing and dive bomb into it, possibly stunning it, but definitely debuffing tohit and damage.

 

I can see Triage Beacon not being very friendly, until you hit an AV or something that will last longer than a few seconds. The rest of /traps is still pretty good to use, even on steam rolling teams.

[Sir Myshkin]

On 4/21/2021 at 10:32 AM, Onlyasandwich said:

I would encourage you to try the Decimation Build Up proc!

Personally I see that as too counter-intuitive to the intention of the Seekers. They are either getting summoned directly into a spawn in order to take advantage of that small window of buff opportunity, or the player is breaking the Alpha, voiding the given argument about why using the Seekers is relevant in the first place. In either case, both tend to go against how most casually place Traps (setup, draw in). Traps just isn't an active (fast) enough set (IMO) to validate the idea of that proc in one power as the major reason for taking it.

 

On 4/21/2021 at 12:14 PM, Arbegla said:

While I do understand why you would seem them as underwhelming, the debuff is actually really easy to perma, as it lasts for quite some time (I think 30 seconds?) and even with SO slotting, you can get the Seekers to recharge that fast.

EB/AV/GMs are about the only thing in the game that could be exclusively considered worthwhile to focus the Seekers on, and they're a taxing re-summon time wise for a debuff that will invariably get heavily resisted, and the damage they contribute to a fight is negligible.

 

I'm definitely not saying you should stop using them, but from a numbers stand point they're not worth their gross investment in time over other things a Traps user could be doing in their place which is what ultimately makes them a poor power. And no, you can't use the Decimation proc as a form of validation, that only exacerbates to prove my point.

 

Personally I'd much rather the Seeker Drones did something cooler/more thematically appropriate like track down targets and shoot lasers at them. Pew Pew! They should be more like Tornado in that sense, chasing targets and firing off laser blasts with debuffing effects (-tohit and -dam) instead of just exploding.

[plainguy]

Traps is about defense cap..

 

It is slow to play in a group, but shines in AV fights.. 
FFG alone is almost putting out 15% defenses for players.. That alone is capping everyone out.. 

You can literally almost get defense cap with SO in Traps on any Arch Type.

 

Its a great solo build as well.

 

You can tank with it if needed. Do it on my Robot Traps MM all the time. 

 

[Onlyasandwich]

On 4/24/2021 at 2:54 AM, Sir Myshkin said:

Personally I see that as too counter-intuitive to the intention of the Seekers. They are either getting summoned directly into a spawn in order to take advantage of that small window of buff opportunity, or the player is breaking the Alpha, voiding the given argument about why using the Seekers is relevant in the first place. In either case, both tend to go against how most casually place Traps (setup, draw in). Traps just isn't an active (fast) enough set (IMO) to validate the idea of that proc in one power as the major reason for taking it.

 

I don't think Seekers is a set-definer, and could use some work, but I disagree on the typical traps playstyle.

 

I will indeed often summon Seekers directly into the spawn as an alpha-breaker/initial debuff, and this was my MO before slotting the buildup proc as well. It is a happy bonus that this timing happens to work optimally for following up on the build-up proc as well.

 

You can definitely play traps in a more "setup, draw in" fashion, and it works well for solo play, but I wouldn't ask a team to dial back their strategy to suit this. Often times the idea of alpha-breaking is moot on a team, in which case it doesn't really matter how I open, so slotting the proc gives this power utility in situations that it otherwise wouldn't have a great purpose.

 

Again, I'm not trying to sell slotting the buildup proc in Seekers as some sort of magic button that makes Seekers amazingly special, but it is very useful and gives the power more purpose in a wider variety of situations.

 

Unless I am camping a hard target like an AV, I treat my traps as more of a "fire and move on" power, rather than something to really reinforce a single battlefield. I'm usually bouncing around with my FFgen behind me, open with Seekers, hit my alpha, drop mortar, continue blasting. If the alpha is taken care of, I may just open with mortar, then go seekers and blast away instead.

 

Poison Trap and Triage beacon mostly stay in reserve, though I may throw out PT just for fun every now and then even if the team is shredding nicely.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[Arbegla]

23 hours ago, Onlyasandwich said:

Unless I am camping a hard target like an AV, I treat my traps as more of a "fire and move on" power, rather than something to really reinforce a single battlefield. I'm usually bouncing around with my FFgen behind me, open with Seekers, hit my alpha, drop mortar, continue blasting. If the alpha is taken care of, I may just open with mortar, then go seekers and blast away instead.

 

Poison Trap and Triage beacon mostly stay in reserve, though I may throw out PT just for fun every now and then even if the team is shredding nicely.

 

I think treating traps like a "Fire and Forget" powerset is the best bet honestly. Trip Mine and Time Bomb/Detonator aren't really that useful, especially with the interrupt they have. Teams are just too fast, and unless you know exactly where a spawn is going to pop up (Katie Hannon TF, some ambushes, etc) the setup isn't really worth the time invested in my opinion.

[Doomguide2005]

13 hours ago, Arbegla said:

 

I think treating traps like a "Fire and Forget" powerset is the best bet honestly. Trip Mine and Time Bomb/Detonator aren't really that useful, especially with the interrupt they have. Teams are just too fast, and unless you know exactly where a spawn is going to pop up (Katie Hannon TF, some ambushes, etc) the setup isn't really worth the time invested in my opinion.

     This is how I play mine as well.  It's part of the reason I place my AM between mobs (its range is 100ft on Defenders and Corruptors).  It'll hopefully (LoS permitting) start firing and debuffing the next mob(s) as the team finishes the first.  I tend to be very mobile, not static even solo especially on my Fire/Traps or Traps/Fire.  I might slow down a bit if it's a kill all but otherwise not so much overall.

[Sir Myshkin]

On 6/27/2021 at 10:18 AM, Onlyasandwich said:

I will indeed often summon Seekers directly into the spawn as an alpha-breaker/initial debuff, and this was my MO before slotting the buildup proc as well. It is a happy bonus that this timing happens to work optimally for following up on the build-up proc as well.

 

This is still going back to the same hang up that the Seeker Drones are being artificially enhanced for use via the proc, and it is truly only the proc that is adding a significant value to their utilization. As an alpha absorption are they really making that much of an impact comparatively if you--as the player--are (we're assuming) already soft capped via FFG, and it's impacting with a nominally small debuff in -ToHit and -Dam on one or two targets, most likely minions, most likely earliest to die. Without the addition of the proc there is also less recourse of re-summon for each additional engagement of threat level (Boss, EB, AV) over the duration of fight due to reduced debuff effect, and negligible damage component.

 

From a play stand point it makes a player feel engaged and inclusive in their set, environment, and the experience of being a "Traps User," but from an analytical standpoint there is no significant data point value to the inclusion of a Seeker Drone's impact in combat. The Seeker Drone's have the same recharge as Poison Trap, and Poison Trap has a far more meaningful impact on opening a spawn compared to the Drones because it occupies and removes assailants from combat while instantly weakening them. That's the kind of play impact that each power should be providing, meaningful impact.

 

I'm not telling you or anyone else to stop playing in a way that makes it so you enjoy the game, but I will still call out the deficiency in the set and the change that needs to happen.

[Onlyasandwich]

12 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

alpha absorption

 

I appreciate your viewpoint, Myshkin, and again agree that Seekers could use a buff. 

 

However, alpha absorption is not entirely irrelevant for defense softcap, depending on how you got there. For example, my Traps/ doubled down on defense, and does not have an epic resist shield, instead going for incarnate softcap with FFG up using scorpion shield.

 

If I am relying only on my defense, and have fairly nominal resists otherwise (just tough in this case along with sundry bonuses), alpha absorption becomes very important when solo against higher level mobs. Poison trap is, as you note, also a good opener when toe-bombing assuming you have stacked stealth to do it, and may indeed be the best way to address alphas in most cases when it is up.

 

Even then, the stacked -tohit and -damage from both seekers going off in the middle of the group is a fairly substantial debuff (~10% -tohit and ~26% damage per seeker). It is not very reliable to hit a large portion of the spawn with both explosions. One initial area to examine buffing might be their radius so we can more reliably hit that 20% -tohit, ~50% damage debuff total on everything.

 

As for the build up proc, I get that it's silly to rely on as an actual fix for a power that needs buffing, and I would never want to use it as an excuse to ignore improvements. However, it is something you can do with the power right now, and has a valid use case for those interested in running Traps characters.