what is good secondary power for robotics?

[seihyup kim]

what is good secondary power for robotics?

[Neiska]

@seihyup kim - Hello! I love robot masterminds too, and I have leveled several of them now, so hopefully I can help you out some. But the question of what's "good" sort of depends on what you want your niche or strong points to be, but I'll go over the highlights.

 

1. Electric Affinity -

 

Pros - My personal favorite, as it makes pets not only super durable, but also aoe resist and status immune buff, has both an aoe heal and absorb. It also has a single target -20% damage debuff and an aoe -10% damage debuff, (which stack on the single target for -30%). On top of those, it has effectively endless END for you, your pets, and your team mates. Long term, since it has both Status Immunity and END, you are free to take Barrier as your Incarnate destiny slot, for even tougher pets and teams.

 

Not many builds get all 3 in one package - Status immunity, Endless END, and Barrier. But Electrical Affinity is one that does.

 

Cons - The downside to EA is it doesn't really have any special offensive tools or debuffs on its own. It very much is a survival minded set. Some people prefer something more offensive in nature. Aside from the 2 -damage debuffs, it has nothing else to really aid with Archvillians, Giant Monsters, Elite Bosses and the like. This isn't a handicap to robots as much as some sets though, as robots come with -regen to begin with, which most people agree is one of the most important tools for big target hunting.

 

Summary - EA is good for both teams and solo, for both story mode, farming, and incarnate content. Your pets will be among the toughest ones possible, and everyone will love having you around for your status immunity and endless end features alone. But don't expect to win any DPS races or be all that flashy.

 

2. Time -  

 

Pros - Time is another natural compliment to robots, being a defensive set. It is easy to softcap defenses with /time, particularly when you combine Power Boost from Mace Mastery with Farsight. The set has a good balance of both buffs and debuffs, with its noteworthy features being Crono for a big emergency button, a zone of slowing which is helpful, and another aura of slowing toggle. Time is just a good all around balanced set. The set plays well both as ranged if you want to out-gun your enemies (with your slow zone, aura, and even web grenade from mace mastery to keep everything locked down), or as a melee mastermind. It is also a very easy set to play, which is good for players new to masterminds.

 

Cons - The downside to Time is it has no END tools, no status tools, and no resistance buffs. You really are betting it all on having a high defense with time, coupled with healing. (which isn't bad, its just as above with EA, its not everyone's cup of tea.) And while the set is itself balanced well, it has nothing that particularly stands out as super impressive either. Aside from a few slows and Crono, thats all it really has going for it.

 

Summary - Time is also good both for teams and solo, for about any activity you could want. You have healing and defenses covered, with a few status-like debuffs and some quasi CC abilities through slows. It is also easy to play as well.

 

3. Traps -  

 

Pros - Robots/Traps is a classic combination, and for good reason. It marks about every box you could ask for - Defenses, Heals, Buffs, Debuffs. Together Robots/Traps boasts the highest -regen debuffs possible, which is one reason why it is regarded as the Soloist Mastermind, who can solo just about anything possible. Your traps are quite potent, and has a few powers that beg to be used as Proc Powers.

 

Cons - While Traps packs a punch, it is just so SLOW. The playstyle is more or less building a semi-killing box, or a "plant the flag" style of play. You run in, drop your traps, and start throwing caltrops. The issue is, is your best traps have long cooldowns, which means on fast moving teams mobs might not last long enough to really use the traps, or the team can be too moving, pulling 4 or 5 spawns before your traps are ready to be used again.

 

Summary - It is hard to beat Robots/Traps for the king of soloing mastermind. But in trade for that Crown, you can be slow or feel lackluster in teams. Aside from your defense buff, nothing else you can really offer to fast moving teams with any consistency. But many people consider robots/traps to still be one of the strongest solo builds in this game, even in present day.

 

 

4. Forcefields -

 

Pros - Robots/FF is also a classic Mastermind, similar to time it focuses on defense buffs. But the set is largely hand free. Some people like that, some find it boring. It also has some repel abilities which is nice, with Robots being an entirely ranged set.

 

Cons - The downside about Forcefields is that its also hands free, since some people hate that. All of the toggles are expensive on the END though, so I doubt you will be able to have them all up constantly. There is also no healing in the set, so you will have to take medicine pool, rely on your t2 robot heals, or take repair powers. Some Forcefield Masterminds ignore heals entirely and just make a new pet when they die, which might be far more easier now with the latest mastermind pet cooldown change.

 

Summary - If you don't care about pushing to the hardest difficulty or content, with a "chill mode" of playing with no muss and no fuss, Forcefields may suit you well. 

 

Those would be my top picks -

EA if you want super defense and utility,

Time if you want something more balanced,

or Traps if you want to solo things that most ATs couldn't dream of.

 

There are other strong powersets like Dark, Nature, or Cold but I have not tried them myself yet.

 

But there really is no "bestest" powerset. It really matters on solo vs teams, the difficulty and activities you intend to be doing, and most importantly your personal preferance of playstyle.

 

Hope this helps! Happy Masterminding!

[TheSpiritFox]

A comment on Traps. 

 

Traps is slow because of cooldowns, but a massive recharge build mitigates this quite alot. Its not all that difficult if you spend the money to purple out a traps build to get caltrops down to a 15 second recharge with no recharge slotted. It's pretty easy to get poison trap and acid mortar down to like 25 second recharges and seeker drones down to like 20 seconds. Triage beacon down to about a minute which lets them double stack. 

 

Traps on teams is actually solid in all but the most ridiculous steamrollery teams. You know, if you're doing Mis Lib at +0 where a team of 4-5 could down all the AVs until the final mission in a matter of seconds, yeah youre going to feel less like you're useful. You know, just like the controllers and defenders on the team. 

 

On any team where you're not speeding through ridiculously fast, you can get your recharges down with traps low enough to have most of your traps up every group. 

 

Besides recharge what does traps need? Honestly, Super Speed with a celerity IO. You want to lead the pack. You want to be jumping into mobs first with your pets right behind to dump a poison trap to open or using seekers to take alphas. More, yes you do set up kill zones. Between seekers, potentially a personal attack or two, or just using your pets to pull things, one of your goals as a /traps on a team that's not sprinting past the majority of enemies in an area is to yank more groups into your killball. Don't follow the group. Lead it. Send seekers into an unaggroed group and train them into the fight already going on. Jump ahead and start dropping traps in a new group while your team finishes off the old one. Being one of the stronger solo sets in the game means you do not have to sit there and wait for people. You can almost kinda do your own thing. 

 

Built right, traps is a solid addition to any team. It CAN be made to be fast enough that played right, you are legit useful. You alone can handle a group all by yourself, so use that to your advantage by aggroing more shit into the group and laughing as they're like oh shit 2 more groups aggroed and then 10 seconds later everything's dead and they're like "well that went better than expected"

 

And I really cannot overstate the usefulness of having a permanent -1000% regen debuff. Nothing else in the game does as much damage to AV regen in one go as dropping a poison trap and it's aoe so like, during During the 4 av fight in the LRSF you can have ALL the avs debuffed. Acid mortars stack. Two out, that's like -45% defense and -40% resistance in an aoe being reapplied every few seconds. Its nuts. 

[Neiska]

@TheSpiritFox - A fair advanced breakdown on traps, but not everyone has 600m or more to drop on a build to get to that point. Generally speaking, during the level up process I would call it painfully slow on recharge. And I wouldn't call measuring a power set by the top 5% of builds a fair "measuring stick" to gauge a powerset on. I still say Traps is more for solo than Teams, simply because not everyone is going to build their trapper with super high amounts of recharge. I would call it far from the end all be all though, but that's just my opinion. 

 

TLDR - Don't really think its fair to grade a powerset only after reaching max level, max incarnates, and decking yourself out with purples, to "only" then be able to be played as you describe.

[TheSpiritFox]

1 minute ago, Neiska said:

@TheSpiritFox - A fair advanced breakdown on traps, but not everyone has 600m or more to drop on a build to get to that point. Generally speaking, during the level up process I would call it painfully slow on recharge. And I wouldn't call measuring a power set by the top 5% of builds a fair "measuring stick" to gauge a powerset on. I still say Traps is more for solo than Teams, simply because not everyone is going to build their trapper with super high amounts of recharge. I would call it far from the end all be all though, but that's just my opinion. 

 

TLDR - Don't really think its fair to grade a powerset only after reaching max level, max incarnates, and decking yourself out with purples, to "only" then be able to be played as you describe.

 

I think it's fair if you do that to all of your builds and are also rating how well they exemplar. I don't consider rating things based on how they level to be fair, I think that until a build is slotted out you haven't really seen what it can do and because some sets get their major powers way early while others get their best powers very late makes leveling a very bad place to look to determine how good a given set is. 

 

I don't include incarnates for the most part in my analysis, but I do include slotting and set bonuses, as much of those can be kept down into deep exemplar levels and that genuinely matters for a sets overall performance. Not purpling out a build is anyone's choice, it is a mistake in my opinion not to utilize the tools you have and 600m is beyond easy to come by in this game if you have even 1 level 50 character. I have a few billion floating around rn and I haven't farmed in IDK how long except to power level new alts to 50. 

 

Masterminds in general need to have money put into them to really see them shine in more difficult content. I don't think it's fair to judge the potential of any build before you've gotten all the powers you can put into the character, all the slots, and done something with them. And even with a generic IO build, if you stack recharge traps works tons better. It's just, global recharge is so easy to come by and benefits MMs so much that for this class specifically, IO builds should be considered pretty standard. 

 

Like, I get that not everyone is going to purple out a build, but if you want to talk about what a spec  can do, there's no rational reason to base it on leveling which varies wildly not just AT to AT but powerset to powerset within ATs. 

[Neiska]

Fair! I try to see things from an overall perspective, both starting out, the leveling and gearing process, as well as what it can do at endgame with a "money is no object" sort of build. I didn't mean to imply you were wrong or anything if that's how my reply came off as, so sorry if this was the case.

 

I was trying to more describe a power sets niche features and play style. Traps as example regardless of how much recharge I was packing it always had that "plant the flag" feel to it that I never could shake. Even with max inf invested, it still felt slow. Potent to be sure as you describe, but still slow. Not to say there's nothing wrong with traps though! Some like peaches, some like apples and so on. Each to their own, its still a fine secondary with robots, hence why its a classic build. But not everyone will enjoy the feel of it, regardless of how potent the powerset is. 😄

[SmalltalkJava]

Time and FF are strong.    Time can heal which is a plus.     Nature is strong also as it heals and gives resists and other goodies.   they were all pretty fun

[You]

How about TA? In its current form, it looks like a good match for Bots for fighting from a distance. It has -res, -dam, -dam, -rech, -speed, -special, -tohit and -regen (albeit on a long cool down). 
 

It is a polar opposite of ff in the sense that TA is very active set. I have yet to test it extensively but I do look forward to this combo. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by You

[tidge]

Traps is fine without having to pursue huge amounts of Global Recharge. Frankly: I find Acid Mortar to be the key offensive power from the secondary for Masterminds.

 

The thing that Traps helps Bobots with is keeping the enemies in particular AoE patches and further debuffing of them. You have to turn the Robot's Konockback into Knockdown first.

[Mack008]

I have to second the comment about changing their Knockback to Knockdown. 

-- For Drones, I used the Overwhelming Force Damage / KB / KB->KD.

-- For Assault Bot, I used a Sudden Acceleration KB->KD.

 

Made a big difference in not scattering the mobs all over the place, and keeping them inside AoEs instead of knocking them out.

[TygerDarkstorm]

I only saw it mentioned once and very briefly, but I have a Bots/Nature MM that I find to be quite fun and useful. I like to use my fairy patch to try and stage an attack area for my bots (put them on go-to in the patch). I feel like the two sets synergize more than what they seem to be credit for (though they are a tad difficult conceptually). I debuff and hold foes while they go to town with their lasers, and nature is chock full of goodies to keep their health topped up. And that's just with her on generic IO's for the moment--she's in her 40's, so soon I'll be looking to start getting her sets, and she should become even more fun and tanky.

[Riverdusk]

I'll throw in a mention for bots/storm.   Storm has the damage it is famous for, but lacks -regen, so bots nicely gives you both.  Storm in particular gives you good extra single target damage (or very small radius AoE), which bots is somewhat lacking in.

 

You can get them solid defense with steamy mist, the ATO's, maneuvers, and the protector bubbles, and then the mist also gives extra resistance to fire and energy (two of the more common types) and cold (meh).  Edit: I fogot to add, bots like to stay at range so using hurricane as a shield can work very well.

 

Storm gives you an extra power to slot pet sets (tornado)!  I believe it is the only secondary that does this? (with the weirdness that dark servant doesn't let you).  That makes the build a lot easier.

 

I would suggest an epic pool with it that has an aoe immobilize as it can get crazy (good or bad depending on preferences/situation).  But with bots I tend to go for that anyway to help keep things in their missile patches.

 

It is also late blooming as both sets get a lot more powerful in the 30's. (that would be a con of course).

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Riverdusk

[Techwright]

I'm leveling up a bots/electrical at the moment and loving it.  While my dps is a tad low at the moment (which may just be me and my design) my team's survivability is quite good, what with both healing and endurance recharge at my fingertips.  The dps will come with time.

[Psylenz0511]

/storm /EA and /NA are underrated. I have a Bots/NA I did an homage to Silent Running. The bots protect the forest, lol

[Senbonbanana]

I had a bots/dark on live that I enjoyed playing immensely.  

[LlyranKeen]

I've been playing Bots/Traps for so long it's hard for me to imagine playing Bots/ any other way. There are pros and cons to the pairing just like any other.

[WillParkinson]

On 5/18/2021 at 4:32 PM, TygerDarkstorm said:

I only saw it mentioned once and very briefly, but I have a Bots/Nature MM that I find to be quite fun and useful. I like to use my fairy patch to try and stage an attack area for my bots (put them on go-to in the patch). I feel like the two sets synergize more than what they seem to be credit for (though they are a tad difficult conceptually). I debuff and hold foes while they go to town with their lasers, and nature is chock full of goodies to keep their health topped up. And that's just with her on generic IO's for the moment--she's in her 40's, so soon I'll be looking to start getting her sets, and she should become even more fun and tanky.

When you get her all set, I'd love to see the build, if you're willing to share. 🙂

[SmalltalkJava]

I agree bots nature is a powerhouse.  It has resists and absorb to layer with the bots defenses.  It has entangling vines to stun and hold.     I have a tankermind build for demons/nature that I've been thinking about porting over.     If I have time and can get to my desktop, I'll try to get it ported.  Basically at 50 I'd play it as a tankermind.   Pop resists, absorb and end redux. Teleport into the mobs with entangle running.  Have the pets GOTO a place in range and let them Lay down the hurt.    I'd use Provoke to keep aggro on any strays.   The build when I post it won't be fully refined but it will give you an idea.

[TygerDarkstorm]

1 hour ago, WillParkinson said:

When you get her all set, I'd love to see the build, if you're willing to share. 🙂

I certainly can share, however, I am not great at building characters, but I'd be willing to share my tinkerings. 🙂

[RageusQuitus2]

On 5/20/2021 at 12:34 PM, Senbonbanana said:

I had a bots/dark on live that I enjoyed playing immensely.  

Ive played alot of dark on defenders.  and was thinking it would combo very nicely with bots.  -regen stacking and some damage boosting.  all from ranged.  adds some def and stealth.  heals and a pet that heals.  - to hit that helps pets inherent defense advantage.  am i missing something?

[SmalltalkJava]

Here is a quick swap over from my Demon/Nature to Bots/Nature.   Now its not 100%.  You may have to swap the slotting on the pets because I couldn't remember if the Protector Bots knockback more than the big bot does.  the Nature part  should be good to go.  Very short recharge time on the bread and butter nature stuff.    Overgrowth has a downtime of about 9.22 seconds without Force Feedback proc'ing.  When everything is up you just pop PowerBoost, Overgrowth, Wild Bastion, and Wild Growth.      Your level 18 skill is empty.  So do with it as you want, move the slot to somewhere else if you like.    But this is a solid tankermind build.    - I'll leave it to the minds here to pick apart how the bots should be slotted, so they don't knock mobs out of the burn patch that you have them locked down in with Entangling Aura.    Sorry, i don't have more time, but this is pretty solid.  For the level 18 slot you could put Repair in there just so you can 2 Slot Efficacy Adapter for a few more HP, which will bump your Absorb Cap up just a smidge.  🙂      Try it out on Beta Server and hopefully the forumites here can help adjust the Pet slotting to maintain the extra recharge that /Nature needs to realy flourish and also negate the bot's knockback issues.     +Absorb on MM pets is amazing. 

 

Spoiler

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Nature Bot 2k: Level 50 Natural Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Nature Affinity
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Battle Drones

• (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Damage
• (3) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Endurance/Pet +Resist +Regen
• (3) Soulbound Allegiance - Damage
• (5) Soulbound Allegiance - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (5) Soulbound Allegiance - Chance for Build Up
• (7) Overwhelming Force - Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown
  

Level 1: Corrosive Enzymes

• (A) Accuracy IO
  

Level 2: Pulse Rifle Burst

• (A) Thunderstrike - Damage/Endurance
• (7) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (9) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage
• (9) Gladiator's Javelin - Chance of Damage(Toxic)
• (11) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown
• (11) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
  

Level 4: Wild Growth

• (A) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP
• (15) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
• (15) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
• (17) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance
• (17) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
  

Level 6: Equip Robot

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO
  

Level 8: Photon Grenade

• (A) Bombardment - Chance for Fire Damage
• (19) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
• (19) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range
• (21) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance
• (21) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
• (23) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
  

Level 10: Regrowth

• (A) Panacea - Heal/Endurance
• (23) Panacea - Endurance/Recharge
• (25) Panacea - Heal/Recharge
• (25) Panacea - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
• (27) Panacea - Heal
  

Level 12: Protector Bots

• (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
• (27) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage
• (29) Call to Arms - Accuracy/Damage
• (29) Call to Arms - Damage/Endurance
• (31) Call to Arms - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (31) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown
  

Level 14: Boxing

• (A) Empty
  

Level 16: Lifegiving Spores

• (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
• (31) Panacea - Heal
• (33) Panacea - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
• (33) Panacea - Heal/Recharge
• (33) Panacea - Heal/Endurance
  

Level 18: [Empty]

• (A) Empty
• (34) Empty
  

Level 20: Teleport

• (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
  

Level 22: Wild Bastion

• (A) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb
• (34) Preventive Medicine - Heal
• (36) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance
• (36) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime
• (36) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance
• (37) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime
  

Level 24: Provoke

• (A) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge/Range
• (37) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Range
• (37) Perfect Zinger - Taunt
• (39) Perfect Zinger - Accuracy/Recharge
• (39) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge
• (39) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage
  

Level 26: Assault Bot

• (A) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Accuracy/Endurance
• (40) Superior Mark of Supremacy - Damage/Endurance
• (40) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Accuracy/Damage
• (40) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance
• (42) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
• (42) Superior Command of the Mastermind - Recharge/Pet +AoE Defense Aura
  

Level 28: Spore Cloud

• (A) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Endurance
• (34) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff
  

Level 30: Hasten

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
• (42) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 32: Upgrade Robot

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO
  

Level 35: Entangling Aura

• (A) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Hold
• (43) Basilisk's Gaze - Recharge/Hold
• (43) Basilisk's Gaze - Endurance/Recharge/Hold
• (43) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
• (47) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold
  

Level 38: Overgrowth

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
• (45) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 41: Scorpion Shield

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• (45) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
• (45) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
• (46) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
• (46) Red Fortune - Defense
• (46) Red Fortune - Endurance
  

Level 44: Tough

• (A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
• (48) Gladiator's Armor - End/Resist
• (48) Gladiator's Armor - Resistance
  

Level 47: Weave

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• (48) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
• (50) Shield Wall - Defense
• (50) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
• (50) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance
  

Level 49: Power Boost

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 1: Supremacy

Level 1: Brawl

 

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• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Sprint

• (A) Run Speed IO
  

Level 2: Rest

• (A) Empty
  

Level 2: Swift

• (A) Empty
  

Level 2: Hurdle

• (A) Jumping IO
  

Level 2: Health

• (A) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
  

Level 2: Stamina

• (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
• (13) Performance Shifter - EndMod
  

Level 1: Battle Drone

Level 1: Assault Bot
Level 12: Protector Bot
------------

 

(test idea 1) Bots- Nature TankerMind.mxd

[pblue]

I had a very smooth ride with Robots/Radiation. The robots provide a lot of defence, so radiations it seemed to complement well with radations debuffs. The area heal and accellerated metabolism are greaty quality of life powers. I skipped a few powers and ended up getting some of the primary attacks. I  added a couple of procs to Photon Grenade, and just enough Endurance Reduction in Pulse Rifle so that once I dropped the toggles I can pew-pew at will just for the hell of it.  I doubt it is the toughest build out there, but it's easy without being boring.

[StrikerFox]

On 5/17/2021 at 10:12 AM, TheSpiritFox said:

A comment on Traps.

*snip*

 

Yeah, Traps is pretty awesome though I would disregard it from Group Fly + range pets style of play (If that's what the OP is planning with his Bots). Several Trap powers can't be activated more than a couple feet off the ground. 

[TheAdjustor]

Bots Dark is insanely synergistic the only problem with it, is it's so good it can be dull to play

[shrikefire]

No one has mentioned Bots Cold so I will. It was my first character on Homecoming, kind of a reimagining of my original character from live.

 

The cold shields stack with the bubbles and benumb + infrigidate + sleet + heat loss just neuters AVs, GMs, and mobs as well. Stick the health shield on the assault bot, build for some recharge, and the game is easy mode. I've soloed most of the content in the game with it.