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Two possible changes for Stalker...


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52 minutes ago, ZemX said:

 

Not at all true.  The thing about AoE is that it hits everything the same.  That means it kills minions first, LTs second, and bosses dead last.  By a lot.  Bosses have several times the HP and more damage resistance.  If the team has AoE covered, most Stalkers should switch to ST mode and go after bosses first.  That complements the team.  And the slow AS can still be used here if you run just 3 seconds ahead of the team.  Tankers already know to do this when they want to begin bunching up the next spawn for the nukers.  Just go with them and assassinate a boss.

 

 

I mean.  I guess you could do that.

 

Or you could just run up into the middle of the baddie group and fire off your PBAOE.  Then just scrap.  You should get another buildup or hide proc in time to smack a couple bosses around. 

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3 minutes ago, Naraka said:

 

Lol I guess I'm one of those "up in arms" too?

 

I think the funny thing is, the OP asked for me to elaborate but wanted me to respond his way. There's a saying about beggars not being choosers or some such...

 

And when people say "OP", it's likely being used broadly or hyperbolic. Even if Stalkers are OP, there are a lot of other OP factors across other powersets/ATs that should be addressed before stalkers. And even if Stalkers aren't literally OP, that isn't a damned free pass to add stuff for practically no reason besides "that'd be cool". You can suggest it all day, but don't call foul when you get a dissenting opinion.

 

 

 

I think Sents and Khelds actually need buffed.  Within the scope of the game as it is right now.

 

But with the general level of Power Creep, will they get over buffed?  Maybe? 

 

That probably is more important than trying to add some sort of gameplay that's been gone for a dozen issues or whatever. 

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11 hours ago, Madae said:

 

The problem we have here is that rather than come up with a solution, and possibly looking like a fool as people jump all over you like you're jumping all over me for merely suggesting that Stalker could have an interesting change to an interesting ability, you'd rather just avoid it and argue some other asinine point about how things can never change because "reasons". I don't care what the trend is, or what you think it is, I care about what things we can discuss to make this particular part of a Stalker fun again, and if just so happens to lead to a change, we'll all be the better for it... but, nah, let's just argue and call each other names like Omega thinks we should do.

 

Firstly, you're way too defensive for just sharing an "opinion". You must be treating it with more gravity than a mere opinion.

 

Secondly, just discarding an opinion when it strongly affects the point of someone's criticism is going to get you throwing yourself off a cliff trying to understand someone. What I mean by that is, in the past, they already tried adding stuff to AS to make it more valuable but guess what? The player base settled on assassin's Focus. You are going to just ignore that the *trend* is how that happened? Asking for even more on top, especially when you're talking about the *trendy* things (Ani speed/rech, damage, AoE/AoE range) is going to get you criticism. 

 

Learn to take criticism.

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6 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Or you could just run up into the middle of the baddie group and fire off your PBAOE.  Then just scrap.  You should get another buildup or hide proc in time to smack a couple bosses around. 

 

Unless you think this would kill the bosses just as fast (which it won't) then you're missing why I even said it.  Basically, the situation where it makes sense to switch from AoE focus to ST focus as a Stalker is the one where you notice the team is always hanging around mopping up bosses last.  It means the team has plenty of AoE to wipe out the trash and could benefit instead from someone focusing damage on those big bags of hitpoints.

 

You can still forgo the hidden AS and rely only on the quick-AS later in the chain if you want, but all you have to do is leave the last spawn two seconds early to make hidden AS worth it.  You get scale 7 damage as the first attack and an almost guaranteed follow-up crit from your next best attack.  You can at that point even just switch targets and the team's AoEs will likely finish it off for you while you go lay into another boss in the spawn.  The goal of this is to knock off enough boss HP that the AoEs finish them along with the rest instead of the whole team having to focus the bosses last.

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4 hours ago, Naraka said:

 

Lol I guess I'm one of those "up in arms" too?

 

I think the funny thing is, the OP asked for me to elaborate but wanted me to respond his way. There's a saying about beggars not being choosers or some such...

 

And when people say "OP", it's likely being used broadly or hyperbolic. Even if Stalkers are OP, there are a lot of other OP factors across other powersets/ATs that should be addressed before stalkers. And even if Stalkers aren't literally OP, that isn't a damned free pass to add stuff for practically no reason besides "that'd be cool". You can suggest it all day, but don't call foul when you get a dissenting opinion.

 

 

 

There is a huge difference between providing a dissenting opinion in a civil way and being a dick about it.  You were definitely one of the guys being a dick about it.  It's your right to act that way, but some people are just going to tune you out.  A lot of us have to deal with unsavory people in the real world.  I can't imagine many of us want to deal with it in a game, where I would expect that all of us want a good experience to take us a way from reality for a bit.  Haijinx has a dissenting opinion, but he is engaging in a civil manner. 

 

On another note, Madae didn't ask for a change because it would be "cool".  He made some legitimate points about the way AS and focus works and provided a comparison between blaster and stalker.  He also gave his take on what he thought would help.  I think for the most part his concerns are legit, but I don't know that they are things I would focus on as I do think the class plays fine.  Otherwise I wouldn't have so many level 50 stalkers and I wouldn't keep rolling new ones.

 

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19 hours ago, FUBARczar said:

Sorry but that is just dumb and would cause so many problems with IOs, Incarnates, buffs from teammates, etc.  It basically throws out almost the whole game.

I disagree

Guardian survivor

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*strolls in*

 

Hi.

 

From time to time, you may run across a stalker named Paper Lotus, on Excelsior.

 

Especially during Halloween event.

 

*Giggle* stalkers are JUST fine. From lvl 6 on, absolutely bonkers good.

 

You might try teaming with her, next time you see her.

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19 hours ago, Madae said:

 

I'd argue this has more to do with being primarily ST with a majority of their power sets, and when they do get AoE, you're comparing it to AT's that are much better at holding aggro by virtue of having a more complete toolset, on top of Stalkers generally not being the first to hit to avoid the alpha strike that they more often than not can't survive through. Stalker is about being cautious and ambushing strong targets, not gathering up as much aggro as they can, which is less and less effective the further back in time with the power sets you go. Maybe there is a numbers game going on behind the scenes that someone has documented, or maybe it's even in the power info, I've never looked, but granting this as a "strength" of the AT seems rather silly considering how they are supposed to play. Every other AT can practically drop an aggro nuke on every single group you encounter, very few Stalker powersets can boast of the same thing.

After reading this thread, I think you may need to refresh your stalking.

 

Stalking isn't about being cautious and avoiding the alpha, it's like this...

 

Alpha-soaking, crowd-smashing, boss-arresting, GM-solo no-summons or temps hunting, whogivesadamnaboutaoe cuz I murdered the whole group before you could get your aoe off.

 

I recommend retooling your build and strategy, because stalking is a straight gank-fest. My build is up here also, if you know which thread to look in 😁😁😁😁😁😁

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4 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

After reading this thread, I think you may need to refresh your stalking.

 

Stalking isn't about being cautious and avoiding the alpha, it's like this...

 

Alpha-soaking, crowd-smashing, boss-arresting, GM-solo no-summons or temps hunting, whogivesadamnaboutaoe cuz I murdered the whole group before you could get your aoe off.

 

I recommend retooling your build and strategy, because stalking is a straight gank-fest. My build is up here also, if you know which thread to look in 😁😁😁😁😁😁

 

I suppose I do play my Stalker how I think they should play, and maybe I'm just not completely sold on the idea that I should drop/avoid/ignore the one unique aspect of the class that drew me to it in the first place for the sake of being 100% efficient, or simply be like every other AT I can play instead.

But again, if we're talking about what a Stalker can potentially do, cool, but why play a Stalker when you can do that same thing on a better, more well-rounded AT? I would just assume play my Blaster for various reasons I stated in my first few posts of this thread.

And arguably without the ATO's, and a lot of influence to slot yourself, Stalkers do tend to play very cautious, at least up until the point that they have the defensive powers, and correct enhancements, they need to allow them to be more flexible, but they're still rather limited depending on what power set you got suckered in to, which not every new player signing up to play a Stalker will recognize right off the bat.

Ultimately, I feel like I've addressed these types of points already in the thread.

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1 hour ago, Lockpick said:

 

There is a huge difference between providing a dissenting opinion in a civil way and being a dick about it.  You were definitely one of the guys being a dick about it.  It's your right to act that way, but some people are just going to tune you out.  A lot of us have to deal with unsavory people in the real world.  I can't imagine many of us want to deal with it in a game, where I would expect that all of us want a good experience to take us a way from reality for a bit.  Haijinx has a dissenting opinion, but he is engaging in a civil manner. 

 

On another note, Madae didn't ask for a change because it would be "cool".  He made some legitimate points about the way AS and focus works and provided a comparison between blaster and stalker.  He also gave his take on what he thought would help.  I think for the most part his concerns are legit, but I don't know that they are things I would focus on as I do think the class plays fine.  Otherwise I wouldn't have so many level 50 stalkers and I wouldn't keep rolling new ones.

 

Lol if you're going to tune it out, you're not doing a good job of it by acknowledging it.

 

I don't think I was being a dick about it. Snarky? Sure, but having to deal with people irl should make you more tolerant, not less, of minuscule comments on a forum.

 

And you still can't bring yourself to disagree with the OP's stance of Stalkers. It's fine. Apparently you also agree with my initial post but you don't want to admit that either which is also fine but don't go calling people dicks while also being extremely petty as to not just say what you mean. I mean, technically you can, it's just a tad hypocritical.

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Yeah also not gonna read all five pages yet, but consensus amongst experienced stalkers is that they are either in a good place or overpowered. After leveling and kitting out another a couple weeks ago, I’m inclined to agree.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, arcane said:

consensus amongst experienced stalkers is that they are either in a good place or overpowered.

 

That's a pretty bold claim that I'm less inclined to agree with over something like "some experienced stalkers say this". There's simply no way for you, or anyone else for that matter, to know what the entire population of "experienced stalkers" thinks about this without a census and poll at the very least. Forums are not a very good place to use as a reference for "people say this", since a majority of players do not use forums, nor does your personal circle of friends and or comments you see from the random person in global chat. From what we can gather from this thread, from what I've seen in my other thread, and the arguments taking place here, we can at least determine that there are some people questioning the state of the stalker, while some clearly don't.

Edited by Madae
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59 minutes ago, Madae said:

 

I suppose I do play my Stalker how I think they should play, and maybe I'm just not completely sold on the idea that I should drop/avoid/ignore the one unique aspect of the class that drew me to it in the first place for the sake of being 100% efficient, or simply be like every other AT I can play instead.

But again, if we're talking about what a Stalker can potentially do, cool, but why play a Stalker when you can do that same thing on a better, more well-rounded AT? I would just assume play my Blaster for various reasons I stated in my first few posts of this thread.

And arguably without the ATO's, and a lot of influence to slot yourself, Stalkers do tend to play very cautious, at least up until the point that they have the defensive powers, and correct enhancements, they need to allow them to be more flexible, but they're still rather limited depending on what power set you got suckered in to, which not every new player signing up to play a Stalker will recognize right off the bat.

Ultimately, I feel like I've addressed these types of points already in the thread.

The funny thing is, I completely understand your perspective, probably better than you do.

 

At the end of the day, players like me that liked stalkers as they were had the AT practically taken away and given a Scrappers version instead. We had to accept that the way stalkers were was inferior to the style of the scrapper because they are *peak*. And it's unreasonable now to take Stalkers as they exist now away to replace it with a more Stalkery version nor would it be feasible to just fudge it into the current AT without either failing to accomplish the goal or making them OP.

Edited by Naraka
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3 minutes ago, Madae said:

 

That's a pretty bold claim that I'm less inclined to agree with over something like "some experienced stalkers say this". There's simply no way for you, or anyone else for that matter, to know what the entire population of "experienced stalkers" thinks about this without a census and poll at the very least. Forums are not a very good place to use as a reference for "people say this", since a majority of players do not use forums. From what we can gather from this thread, from what I've seen in my other thread, and the arguments taking place here, we can at least determine that there are some people questioning the state of the stalker, while some are also less inclined to agree. Seems rather split at the moment.

It's not split.  The names that have been on the Stalker boards for years, who have provided detailed guides and builds and who know the AT are all in agreement that they're fine.  

 

You said it yourself two posts up: you are playing the AT wrong.  Stalkers aren't ambush specialists, they're higher burst Scrappers. They haven't been ambush specialists in over a decade.  You're caught up on what you think the AT should be instead of learning to play the AT as it is.  If you took the time to know how to build and play a Stalker, you would find that they're fine to amazing depending on the powersets.

 

Could some sets use help?  Yes, MA, ninja blade, dual blades and some others all could use a hand.  But sets like Electric outperform all other AT versions.  

 

But you really don't seem to care and have decided that you're objectively correct, so whatever. 

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4 minutes ago, Madae said:

 

That's a pretty bold claim that I'm less inclined to agree with over something like "some experienced stalkers say this". There's simply no way for you, or anyone else for that matter, to know what the entire population of "experienced stalkers" thinks about this without a census and poll at the very least. Forums are not a very good place to use as a reference for "people say this", since a majority of players do not use forums. From what we can gather from this thread, from what I've seen in my other thread, and the arguments taking place here, we can at least determine that there are some people questioning the state of the stalker, while some are also less inclined to agree. Seems rather split at the moment.

I apologize for not adding the requisite hedging such as “seems to be” or “IMO”. Yes, obviously I have not collected data from every Stalker player.

 

If you feel that your Stalkers are lacking, perhaps you should reach out to someone who reports success on a Stalker. If you’re getting significantly less mileage out of them than numerous others, odds are you’ve missed something.

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Gonna avoid all the discussion over the stalker's balance in the meta, however..

Tweaking the numbers on slow AS so it's more viable is a good suggestion. I'm all for players having more options and if this could be tweaked up so it can offer the slower playstyle while also being rewarding in the dps performance metric this is an all around good change.

   Blaster slow snipes are all standardized to do 281.5 damage as a reference while Stalker slow AS are all standardized to do 389.3 damage. Varying animations times though.
 

 

Having the assassin's focus stacks refresh on hit is something I like too, and would be a hell of a much appreciated QoL change.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, arcane said:

I apologize for not adding the requisite hedging such as “seems to be” or “IMO”. Yes, obviously I have not collected data from every Stalker player.

 

If you feel that your Stalkers are lacking, perhaps you should reach out to someone who reports success on a Stalker. If you’re getting significantly less mileage out of them than numerous others, odds are you’ve missed something.

 

I tend to read a lot about an AT before I jump in with a build, and I've read a lot on what people have to stay about a Stalker, I'm simply not wholly convinced. There are valid points, such as older sets not being as good as newer sets, plugging that gap they've had historically, and other things mentioned in this thread. The thing I find most interesting is that I've had more fun with my Martial Arts Stalker than the others I've tried (and despite being one of the more problematic sets with heavy ST focus). Maybe it's a theme thing, or I feel like their attacks pack more of a punch, which may not even be true if you compare the numbers. I also tend to stray away from builds that I feel might be overused, simply for the fact that I would rather be something more unique, and that definitely tends to put me in a position of being less impressed with the results for sure.

 

Lately I've been considering making an elec/elec Stalker, since my main is an elec/elec Tanker, and I really enjoy playing that AT, and I think I would be similarly impressed with a Stalker version that may or may not change some opinions I currently have... although, regardless what power set combo I choose, I would still probably gravitate towards thinking that both Assassin's Focus needs to be more consistent (my primary concern) and Assassin's Strike needs to be tweaked to be more attractive (a wishlist), neither of which I think are all that controversial in the end. I've already submitted feedback for Assassin's Focus, because I think that's, more or less, something people can more readily agree to without too much argument. Slow AS... that seems to be a more hotly debated issue.

 

And, of course, I could just make an elec/SD and teleport bomb big groups of mobs for big damage numbers... I've never quite been a fan of punching with a shield though (not a Captain America theme fan all that much, though I like his character).

 

I'll also add that my current Stalker is a KM/Bio build, which is ok, but does suffer from some slow animation, and I'm a bit on the fence with how much I like the Concentrated Strike/build up thing. It's the furthest I've gone with slotting a Stalker, and has full sets of both ATO's, among other things, but I'm still undecided on whether or not I enjoy it enough to keep playing it. 

 

Recently deleted my Stj/SR Stalker, too, I just didn't like the theme or the results, despite what I've read about it being one of the best combos in the late game. This isn't meant to suggest that I think these more popular builds aren't "good" overall, they're just not how I want to play a Stalker, hence the suggestions.

Edited by Madae
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Is the complaint about AS being partially driven by low-level play (<15) ? I join a lot of Frostfire missions and because of my build choices I typically only have 3 attacks (without the full suite of Global Recharge) and I will admit that playing with AS at such a low level takes a little bit of adjusting. It gets so much easier with an attack chain that uses higher level attacks... and you can leverage more tricks from your secondary and pools.

 

Very few classes are great at distinguishing themselves at low levels; all AT get better when exemplaring down (more slots!)

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, tidge said:

Is the complaint about AS being partially driven by low-level play (<15) ? I join a lot of Frostfire missions and because of my build choices I typically only have 3 attacks (without the full suite of Global Recharge) and I will admit that playing with AS at such a low level takes a little bit of adjusting. It gets so much easier with an attack chain that uses higher level attacks... and you can leverage more tricks from your secondary and pools.

 

Very few classes are great at distinguishing themselves at low levels; all AT get better when exemplaring down (more slots!)

 

I made it to mid 40's or more before giving up on all of my Stalkers... basically don't know anything about how incarnates help them out, or how that high level 50 play works for them. I may be wrong, but I think you get a pretty good idea of what you'll be doing for the rest of the game by about that time, and that's usually where I figure out I'm not interested. My current Stalker, KM/Bio, is 48, slotted and may actually make it to 50 this time, but I'm wavering.

Edited by Madae
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I really don't think AF needs to be more consistent. It may be annoying to not crit with AS every time, it's ultimately irrelevant. It still gets a large chance to crit from each stack, and it's better to just continue your rotation anyway. And we can get good numbers doing so.

 

I would be interested in placate becoming something more useful and not almost universally skipped.  Something like just reducing the cast time and recharge could freshen up the stalker attack rotation meta. But I disagree that stalkers NEED a buff. 

Edited by Arcadio
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5 hours ago, Madae said:

 

I suppose I do play my Stalker how I think they should play, and maybe I'm just not completely sold on the idea that I should drop/avoid/ignore the one unique aspect of the class that drew me to it in the first place for the sake of being 100% efficient, or simply be like every other AT I can play instead.

But again, if we're talking about what a Stalker can potentially do, cool, but why play a Stalker when you can do that same thing on a better, more well-rounded AT? I would just assume play my Blaster for various reasons I stated in my first few posts of this thread.

And arguably without the ATO's, and a lot of influence to slot yourself, Stalkers do tend to play very cautious, at least up until the point that they have the defensive powers, and correct enhancements, they need to allow them to be more flexible, but they're still rather limited depending on what power set you got suckered in to, which not every new player signing up to play a Stalker will recognize right off the bat.

Ultimately, I feel like I've addressed these types of points already in the thread.

You see, this is what you seem to have missed...

 

The idea that another AT "is better, more well rounded."

 

Stalkers can do things no other AT can. There are many who have tried the build I have posted and... Well, yeah. There's nothing like a well built stalker. Once, I was on a team of 8.... Wandered off and took down infernal by myself, with no summons, temps or insps, AV. Rest of the team got the other AV down to half health, I dropped by and helped take her down.

 

Same team, another mission thread..... We get to Olympus AV. The team is clearing the room, so I sneak over to Mr Limpy, nd take him down to half health, alone, no temps, summons or insps (I never use lore or pets). I never use envenomed daggers. They finally finish the room and make it to me to help out.

 

Same evening, I see Takoyaki is being served in IP. I set off and eat 4 of the tentacles....alone.... Same as above. A tank and an MM join me and we dine out.

 

Another weekend.... Halloween event, I run the GM hunt on the regular... 120 merits an hour.

 

Just a smattering of the fun one can have on a stalker. By lvl 12 I was at +2. By lvl 28 I was at +4. By 35, +4/8 and at all levels carrying the team.

 

Always happy to demo the redonkery 🤪

Edited by SwitchFade
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4 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

You see, this is what you seem to have missed...

 

The idea that another AT "is better, more well rounded."

 

Stalkers can do things no other AT can. There are many who have tried the build I have posted and... Well, yeah. There's nothing like a well built stalker. Once, I was on a team of 8.... Wandered off and took down infernal by myself, with no summons, temps or insps, AV. Rest of the team got the other AV down to half health, I dropped by and helped take her down.

 

Same team, another mission thread..... We get to Olympus AV. The team is clearing the room, so I sneak over to Mr Limpy, nd take him down to half health, alone, no temps, summons or insps (I never use lore or pets). I never use envenomed daggers. They finally finish the room and make it to me to help out.

 

Same evening, I see Takoyaki is being served in IP. I set off and eat 4 of the tentacles....alone.... Same as above. A tank and an MM join me and we dine out.

 

Another weekend.... Halloween event, I run the GM hunt on the regular... 120 merits an hour.

 

Just a smattering of the fun one can have on a stalker. By lvl 12 I was at +2. By lvl 28 I was at +4. By 35, +4/8 and at all levels carrying the team.

 

Always happy to demo the redonkery 🤪

 

I'd ask you what sets you had equipped, but I have this funny feeling you wouldn't actually tell me the truth, so I suppose I'll just take your word for it. 🙂

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1 hour ago, Arcadio said:

I really don't think AF needs to be more consistent. It may be annoying to not crit with AS every time, it's ultimately irrelevant. It still gets a large chance to crit from each stack, and it's better to just continue your rotation anyway. And we can get good numbers doing so.

 

 

I'm glad someone else is talking sense. It's odd that people assumed AF meant you always crit AS or that you can only fast cast crit AS if you have 3 focus. If that were the case, AF would be an all-or-nothing mechanic like dual blades combos or psi melee insight. Even if AS doesn't crit, people have obviously forgotten where they came from when before you couldn't even use AS without the interruptible animation. I guess it's just terrible if you use a moderate damage 1sec animation with only a 66% chance to crit. Such terrible! Lol

 

 

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1 hour ago, SwitchFade said:

You see, this is what you seem to have missed...

 

The idea that another AT "is better, more well rounded."

 

Stalkers can do things no other AT can. There are many who have tried the build I have posted and... Well, yeah. There's nothing like a well built stalker. Once, I was on a team of 8.... Wandered off and took down infernal by myself, with no summons, temps or insps, AV. Rest of the team got the other AV down to half health, I dropped by and helped take her down.

 

Same team, another mission thread..... We get to Olympus AV. The team is clearing the room, so I sneak over to Mr Limpy, nd take him down to half health, alone, no temps, summons or insps (I never use lore or pets). I never use envenomed daggers. They finally finish the room and make it to me to help out.

 

Same evening, I see Takoyaki is being served in IP. I set off and eat 4 of the tentacles....alone.... Same as above. A tank and an MM join me and we dine out.

 

Another weekend.... Halloween event, I run the GM hunt on the regular... 120 merits an hour.

 

Just a smattering of the fun one can have on a stalker. By lvl 12 I was at +2. By lvl 28 I was at +4. By 35, +4/8 and at all levels carrying the team.

 

Always happy to demo the redonkery 🤪

 

i would tend to doubt someone who flaunts an OP build, but shrouds the build in secrecy... apparently i would need to dig through your post history or find your secret hangout forum goings to learn how to properly win with stalkers.  everybody likes to have a power fantasy of their favorite character being amazing but your accounts in the last bit are absolutely ridiculous.  By level 12 you were at +2 carrying a team??? i dont care what AT and powersets you are playing.  you have no powers of any significant value and no enhancements at level 12.  How exactly could you possibly expect to carry *anything* better than anybody else with nothing of significance available.  Rhetorical by the way, i dont need some recount of you clearing frostfire all the while believing you were carrying your half AFK teammates trying to level up a new alt.

 

anyways this thread has been spinning in circles a lot.  stalkers are not very good at AoE (minus spines and electric) and that is OK.  they arent designed or intended to be great at AoE.  the goal should not be looking to buff their weakness of AoE, but rather enhance their strength of single target... and in the process bring back the feel good of acting like a stalker.  hidden assassins strike is a strong identity of what a stalker was supposed to be but nobody wants to use it because it is absolutely terrible trash.  there are a ton of options that could make hidden assassins strike (and also placate in the process) actually valuable and worth using that would not change the current stalker playstyle (if you wanted to continue ignoring hidden and placate).

 

also im not sure exactly where the general consensus came about of 'stalkers are OP'... the general consensus i see in game is that melee in general are not preferred aside from a few brutes/tanks... and not specifically for them to deal damage, just to run ahead of the team and herd critters.  if your goal is to blow through the content as fast as possible, you want as many team buffs and massive AoE nukes as possible.  that would make stalker, objectively, the _least_ desired class.  that said, aside from people making specific class comp parties for the challenge of it, i rarely find anybody with an elitist attitude about this kind of thing in game.

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6 hours ago, Sancerre said:

 

i would tend to doubt someone who flaunts an OP build, but shrouds the build in secrecy... apparently i would need to dig through your post history or find your secret hangout forum goings to learn how to properly win with stalkers.  everybody likes to have a power fantasy of their favorite character being amazing but your accounts in the last bit are absolutely ridiculous.  By level 12 you were at +2 carrying a team??? i dont care what AT and powersets you are playing.  you have no powers of any significant value and no enhancements at level 12.  How exactly could you possibly expect to carry *anything* better than anybody else with nothing of significance available.  Rhetorical by the way, i dont need some recount of you clearing frostfire all the while believing you were carrying your half AFK teammates trying to level up a new alt.

 

anyways this thread has been spinning in circles a lot.  stalkers are not very good at AoE (minus spines and electric) and that is OK.  they arent designed or intended to be great at AoE.  the goal should not be looking to buff their weakness of AoE, but rather enhance their strength of single target... and in the process bring back the feel good of acting like a stalker.  hidden assassins strike is a strong identity of what a stalker was supposed to be but nobody wants to use it because it is absolutely terrible trash.  there are a ton of options that could make hidden assassins strike (and also placate in the process) actually valuable and worth using that would not change the current stalker playstyle (if you wanted to continue ignoring hidden and placate).

 

also im not sure exactly where the general consensus came about of 'stalkers are OP'... the general consensus i see in game is that melee in general are not preferred aside from a few brutes/tanks... and not specifically for them to deal damage, just to run ahead of the team and herd critters.  if your goal is to blow through the content as fast as possible, you want as many team buffs and massive AoE nukes as possible.  that would make stalker, objectively, the _least_ desired class.  that said, aside from people making specific class comp parties for the challenge of it, i rarely find anybody with an elitist attitude about this kind of thing in game.

 

It is probably the DB / EA build in the DB / EA thread.  It is no doubt a good build that hits hard and is survivable.  I'm only in the mid-30s with it and it performs well, although endurance is an issue as with most stalker builds at this point.  I find that most of my stalkers perform well although some are better than others.  Do I think Stalkers are OP?  No, I don't.  I agree with your point "hidden assassins strike is a strong identity of what a stalker was supposed to be but nobody wants to use".  Not sure I agree it is trash, but I agree it is less than stellar.  Even solo I am about 50/50 on whether I will open with it.  If it was great I would always open with it.

 

 

 

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