Wonder Woman's armpits - late to the party

[Snarky]

So...perusing the interwebs as i slam tons of coffee in the wee hours of the morning.  (getting ready for 500+ miles driving today)  I come across the oddest bit of intrigue.

 

Do Amazons have shaved armpits?  Was that part of Greek culture?  Amazon culture?  Gal Gadot's routine?  DC Canon? and or some rando digital effects person making the final decision for everyone.

 

Not that I believe it will have a huge impact on my existence. I try to avoid Amazons.  They tend to gank Vampires on aight.  That is the true crime here.  Blatant discrimination.  Whether or not they manicure becomes a side issue.

 

Anyways.  Was this important?

Edited July 22, 2021 by Snarky

[Spaghetti Betty]

I'm sure someone that's into armpits would really like to come out of the dark and answer this for you.

[Veloice]

I'm sure someone with actual history knowledge could confirm or deny, but I recall reading about this subject just in some random "wee hours of the morning" tumble down random information holes on the internet.

 

Shaving of body hair goes back to even medieval written records (and satire), believe it or not. In Greek literature, particularly, there are references to depilation, and waxes for that, and so certainly it's quite possible to have been part of Greek culture.

 

...for the creation of the character, I assume it was just because armpit hair is seen as unattractive and so wasn't included. In fact, I can't think of an instance in comic books where Batman for instance is drawn with notable armpit hair. I'm sure there are times, but it seems to just be excluded in art for aesthetic purposes (I assume).

Edited July 22, 2021 by Veloice
added context

[Defeat All Snakes]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

Anyways.  Was this important?

 

It really made me consider my non-vampire privilege and put a lot of things into perspective regarding the way I take my ability to go out in sunlight and look at crucifixes for granted, so yes, I think it was extremely important and thank you for bringing it up.  I hope others will take the time to self reflect after reading it, also.

 

Fuck the armpit thing, though, get this shit out of here before I die of Irrelevance Poisoning.

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, Veloice said:

Shaving of body hair goes back to even medieval written records (and satire), believe it or not. In Greek literature, particularly, there are references to depilation, and waxes for that, and so certainly it's quite possible to have been part of Greek culture.

 

 

Earlier. It was a thing in Egypt, as I recall, and for the fairly practical reason of lice. So, bald-with-wigs was in millenia ago. I'm fairly sure that extended to the rest of the body, but don't quote me on that. (OTOH, given tomb paintings, as I recall, were in part to help keep you looking "ideal" in the afterlife and I don't recall any there with indications of 'pit hair, well...)

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Veloice said:

Shaving of body hair goes back to even medieval written records (and satire), believe it or not. In Greek literature, particularly, there are references to depilation, and waxes for that, and so certainly it's quite possible to have been part of Greek culture.

All of the Amazon myths point to ancient Scythians.  They were the first to practice mounted combat, allowing them to conquer and hold a sizeable middle Eastern territory, which later became the Persian empire (what is, today, several middle Easter countries), and we have Scythian womens' graves providing proof that they were respectable warriors.  Several early Greek references to Amazons refer to Scythia.  We also know that Persian women used an arsenic paste on their bodies to destroy hair follicles.  They considered it pleasing to the eye to be smooth and hairless everywhere except the head.  It was a risky process, since the paste burnt skin as well as hair and could leave them with scars, and arsenic is toxic, but it was an effective method.

 

The neighboring Egyptians regularly shaved their heads to control lice, and it's reasonable to presume that they would shave other regions with dense hair for the same purpose.  Ancient Egyptians were observant and intelligent, they certainly would've realized that it did them little good to keep the head clean if the nethers and pits were infested with parasites.  And Egyptian culture developed thousands of years before anything else in the region.

 

If we assign her a Greek identity, ancient Greek athletes participating in the Olympics would coat themselves in olive oil and scrape it off with a shell, capturing hair, sweat, dirt and oil for later sale as a perfume.  They were also naked for all Olympic events, displayed their bodies for the crowd and for the gods, proudly, and both men and women participated.  The oil accentuated their physiques, it mingled with their sweat and carried their odors when it was removed and was sold as a perfume.  Roman gladiators, male and female, did this as well.  For some of the free gladiators, it was an impressive source of income, as Roman citizens would pay well to smell like their favorite gladiator.

There's an abundance of evidence of women in ancient times practicing full-body depilation, once you look beyond European history.  In the general area where Amazonian mythology took root, it appears to have been relatively common.  I don't think it's an unrealistic portrayal of Wonder Woman to show her without body hair, considering the cultures in question.

[GM Impervium]

While we sadly don't have a subforum dedicated to arm pits, I figure Comic Hero/Villain culture is a close second, so I moved the thread there  😃

Edited July 23, 2021 by GM Impervium
Wording =)

[Triumphant]

20 minutes ago, Luminara said:

All of the Amazon myths point to ancient Scythians.  They were the first to practice mounted combat, allowing them to conquer and hold a sizeable middle Eastern territory, which later became the Persian empire (what is, today, several middle Easter countries), and we have Scythian womens' graves providing proof that they were respectable warriors.  Several early Greek references to Amazons refer to Scythia.  We also know that Persian women used an arsenic paste on their bodies to destroy hair follicles.  They considered it pleasing to the eye to be smooth and hairless everywhere except the head.  It was a risky process, since the paste burnt skin as well as hair and could leave them with scars, and arsenic is toxic, but it was an effective method.

 

The neighboring Egyptians regularly shaved their heads to control lice, and it's reasonable to presume that they would shave other regions with dense hair for the same purpose.  Ancient Egyptians were observant and intelligent, they certainly would've realized that it did them little good to keep the head clean if the nethers and pits were infested with parasites.  And Egyptian culture developed thousands of years before anything else in the region.

 

If we assign her a Greek identity, ancient Greek athletes participating in the Olympics would coat themselves in olive oil and scrape it off with a shell, capturing hair, sweat, dirt and oil for later sale as a perfume.  They were also naked for all Olympic events, displayed their bodies for the crowd and for the gods, proudly, and both men and women participated.  The oil accentuated their physiques, it mingled with their sweat and carried their odors when it was removed and was sold as a perfume.  Roman gladiators, male and female, did this as well.  For some of the free gladiators, it was an impressive source of income, as Roman citizens would pay well to smell like their favorite gladiator.

There's an abundance of evidence of women in ancient times practicing full-body depilation, once you look beyond European history.  In the general area where Amazonian mythology took root, it appears to have been relatively common.  I don't think it's an unrealistic portrayal of Wonder Woman to show her without body hair, considering the cultures in question.

 

Fascinating.  Thanks for that bit of historical information.  On the surface, it seemed ridiculous to me that the ancients would have bothered with what I've always considered to be nothing more than modern aesthetics, but this actually makes perfect sense. 

[Mr. Vee]

Aphrodite blesses the Amazons with no body hair so long as no man welds a chain between their bracelets.

[Ironblade]

11 hours ago, Luminara said:

If we assign her a Greek identity, ancient Greek athletes participating in the Olympics would coat themselves in olive oil and scrape it off with a shell,

Actually, I believe they used a strigil.

[Luminara]

12 hours ago, Ironblade said:

Actually, I believe they used a strigil.

 

Eh.  Strigils weren't common until around the 4th-3rd century BC, and are only referenced as early as the 6th century BC on pottery.  The Olympics pre-date strigils by a couple of centuries, so simple tools, such as shells, would've been in use for hundreds of years before strigils were the norm.

[Heraclea]

On 7/22/2021 at 9:34 AM, Luminara said:

All of the Amazon myths point to ancient Scythians.  They were the first to practice mounted combat, allowing them to conquer and hold a sizeable middle Eastern territory, which later became the Persian empire (what is, today, several middle Easter countries), and we have Scythian womens' graves providing proof that they were respectable warriors.  Several early Greek references to Amazons refer to Scythia.  We also know that Persian women used an arsenic paste on their bodies to destroy hair follicles.  They considered it pleasing to the eye to be smooth and hairless everywhere except the head.  It was a risky process, since the paste burnt skin as well as hair and could leave them with scars, and arsenic is toxic, but it was an effective method.

 

This.  Also, the original speakers of the Indo European languages boiled out of this area.  FWIW the modern myths that make them mighty 'Aryan' conquerors do not hold water.   Ancient militaries were never good enough for massive occupations.  They settled in pasture upland that the agricultural natives did not want.  They brought with them the knowledge to breed horses, cattle, and sheep which the locals wanted.  And there probably was a bit of cultural glamor attached to them when they arrived.  They rode horses! and had a trade network spanning thousands of miles.  They were the sort of people you run away from the farm to join. 

 

Shaving appears generally when people get brass weapons that hold a straight edge well enough to make it practical.  Beards appear with large scale bathing facilities.