Rad armor...and everything else

[Randolk]

There's something off over here.

Every armor set has his weaknesses, holes, something that you can adjust somehow with IOs, incarnates...and smart playing.

Psi hole, one of the eldest. Or DA without Kb protection, or SD with no end management and no heal. Let's say none of these holes makes a set unplayable. Everything is playable AND enjoyable.

Given that smart playing is a feature not included in the game, everything else seems pretty balanced, with some sets slightly "better" than others based on the game situation.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I can't find any weakness in RA. And no, cold resistance is not, even in a map full of cold damage critters.

I mean, I can play this toon without even looking what's happening on the screen and mashing random buttons. Ok, a bit exxagerated, but still.

1k+ absorb? Sheesh. How anything outside 802.x's is supposed to kill me?

[ZemX]

Is any tanker really vulnerable if you throw IO sets and Incarnates into the mix though?

 

I would say a big issue I've had with Rad Armor is debuffs.  Everything hits you.  Unless you invest heavily in defense set bonuses to the point where you're hurting something else probably.  I skipped Energy Mastery to get more AoEs from Mu.  Didn't think I needed the endurance tools.  But it looks like I need Focused Accuracy if I don't want to keep being just a taunt bot in the middle of a pack of ordinary CoT, storm-using enemies, Carnie fluffy pets, etc.  All that hits me because I have no significant defense.  Sure... throw up a barrier incarnate.  But that's still a hole in the set that you needed to plug just like other sets deal with psi or endurance.

[PLVRIZR]

3 hours ago, Randolk said:

Sheesh. How anything outside 802.x's is supposed to kill me?

 

Have you main tanked the ITF at +4/8?

[Randolk]

1 hour ago, PLVRIZR said:

 

Have you main tanked the ITF at +4/8?

 

Actually I solo'ed that. With a /rad brute, tbh. Loooooooong stuff, but extremely safe.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Randolk

[Bill Z Bubba]

29 minutes ago, Randolk said:

Actually I solo'ed that. With a /rad brute, tbh. Loooooooong stuff, but extremely safe.

 

Interesting. I'm guessin you loaded up on slow resistance? When I attempted it with rad armor, I found it was just as squishy as fire armor but in both cases I wasn't built for max slow resist nor was I chugging ageless for what little DDR it provides.

[SuperPlyx]

Yeah I had some problems with the ITF as well, all the defense debuffs were a pain. But I do love the rad armor set, have used it 3 times now, tank, brute and sentinel. 

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Interesting. I'm guessin you loaded up on slow resistance? When I attempted it with rad armor, I found it was just as squishy as fire armor but in both cases I wasn't built for max slow resist nor was I chugging ageless for what little DDR it provides.

 

The extreme rules +4x8, no incarnates team I've done a few times certainly cuts up my Rad/Staffer for fish bait.  Slowed and defense floored, then dead.  And that's with several tanks on the team.  I need to run on a "normal" +4x8 to see how much different that is. 

[Sovera]

6 hours ago, ZemX said:

Is any tanker really vulnerable if you throw IO sets and Incarnates into the mix though?

 

This sums up my point of view.  We have too many tales of 'haha, my tank just puled X enemies and laughed'. Well, yes, it's a tank? It is what they do. ITF and romans are nice and good, but lets talk about something a bit more problematic to tank.

 

How about soloing some Shepherds from First Ward? They mulched my Fire Tank by -res (and no resistances resist resistance debuffs helped), -defense, and I think -accuracy but don't quote me. It might have been slows. Regardless between -res AND -def a single +1x8 would kill my tank np.

 

What about Banished Pantheon, but not the watered down version we get from DA since all the incarnate boosts turn them into +1.

[ZemX]

2 minutes ago, Sovera said:

How about soloing some Shepherds from First Ward? They mulched my Fire Tank by -res (and no resistances resist resistance debuffs helped), -defense, and I think -accuracy but don't quote me. It might have been slows. Regardless between -res AND -def a single +1x8 would kill my tank np.

 

First Ward / Night Ward on a team, even exemplared, can be a horror show.  I went there with my usually very sturdy Staff/Nin Stalker and joined a team that insisted on running a Living Spells mission at +4x8.

 

If looking for Rad's kryptonite, I say yeah... look for enemies that debuff you into next week.  Look at Praetoria at high levels and at +4x8 settings.  Defense based Tankers, at least the ones that can get very good DDR, will get through that more easily I think.

[Bill Z Bubba]

I have long stated, regardless of the times that SR just plain fails (Rularru (sp?) and autohit fluffies and the like,) that the greatest strength of SR was never getting hit with debuffs. And then shield came along with its 87% DDR with double stacked active defense and +damage aura and better HP and then I got a sad.

 

Edit: And people wonder why I bitch so much about intra-AT balance.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Bill Z Bubba

[Werner]

2 hours ago, ZemX said:

The extreme rules +4x8, no incarnates team I've done a few times certainly cuts up my Rad/Staffer for fish bait.  Slowed and defense floored, then dead.  And that's with several tanks on the team.  I need to run on a "normal" +4x8 to see how much different that is. 

You will find it laughably easy in comparison, I predict. 
 

It’s fortunately easy to get tons of slow/recharge resist these days. Winters Gift unique, split a slow set across three attacks including Brawl and Boxing, and you’re already at 65% I think? More is good. I hate slows even more than I rationally should, so I usually go even further, even though as always it involves compromise elsewhere.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Werner

[Werner]

39 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I have long stated, regardless of the times that SR just plain fails (Rularru (sp?) and autohit fluffies and the like,) that the greatest strength of SR was never getting hit with debuffs. And then shield came along with its 87% DDR with double stacked active defense and +damage aura and better HP and then I got a sad.

 

Edit: And people wonder why I bitch so much about intra-AT balance.

I’m not asking for Shield nerfs, but it does make me a little sad that it can almost equal SR’s DDR. That’s something that I think makes SR special, and Shield coming close to it makes it feel less special. I do have downtime between double stacks, but it’s difficult to put me down during the gap. I do monitor defense, though, where I wouldn’t even bother on SR. 

[nihilii]

I'll ask for the Shield nerf, then: take DDR away from Active Defense, and stick it in Grant Cover.

 

Pros:

- no more need to use AD as much as possible, cutting into animation time

- removes a somewhat obscure mechanic to more casual players (let's be honest, many don't even know DDR is a thing)

- Grant Cover now gives twice as much DDR to teammates, from ~+17% to ~+38%. This turns the number from something hardly anyone will notice to something that can genuinely cut into enemy debuffing

 

Cons:

- less maximum DDR, from 87% to 65% on Tankers, 70% to 53% on punier ATs

- removes part of the functionality of AD, may be upsetting to builds who skip Grant Cover.

I think the pros would outweigh the cons here; the cons being, even, desirable (one should not skip Grant Cover 😄). It moves Shield towards its special role of team buffer/protector, and away from stepping on SR's toes.

Would you all be happy with such a solution, or find it unacceptable?

Edited September 18, 2021 by nihilii

[Werner]

2 hours ago, nihilii said:

Would you all be happy with such a solution, or find it unacceptable?

As a Shielder, I’ll happily take that bullet for the team, so to speak.

[InvaderStych]

2 hours ago, nihilii said:

Would you all be happy with such a solution, or find it unacceptable?

 

I have a scrapper that supports this.

[Warboss]

On 9/16/2021 at 4:31 AM, Randolk said:

 Ok, a bit exxagerated, but still.

 

 

You okay with posting the build? Although I haven't concentrated on fully tooling out my Rad builds, I've found Colds, Slows and Debuffs to be an issue. I'd like to see how you mitigated those.

[ZemX]

On 9/18/2021 at 11:29 AM, Warboss said:

You okay with posting the build? Although I haven't concentrated on fully tooling out my Rad builds, I've found Colds, Slows and Debuffs to be an issue. I'd like to see how you mitigated those.

 

I'm also trying to deal with those debuffs.  Here's my latest attempt:

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.6.0
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Annie Proton: Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Radiation Armor
Secondary Power Set: Staff Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Alpha Barrier -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(3), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(3), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(5), UnbGrd-Max HP%(5)
Level 1: Mercurial Blow -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(7), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Mk'Bit-Dam%(11)
Level 2: Proton Armor -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(13), RctArm-ResDam(15), GldArm-3defTpProc(15), Ags-Psi/Status(17)
Level 4: Guarded Spin -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(17), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(21), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(21)
Level 6: Fallout Shelter -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(23), ImpArm-ResDam(23), ImpArm-ResPsi(25), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(25)
Level 8: Gamma Boost -- PwrTrns-+Heal(A)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A), Ksm-ToHit+(27), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(27), Rct-ResDam%(29)
Level 12: Beta Decay -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A)
Level 14: Radiation Therapy -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(29), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Prv-Heal/Rchg(31), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(31), Prv-Absorb%(33)
Level 16: Eye of the Storm -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(33), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(34)
Level 18: Particle Shielding -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(36), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(36), Prv-Heal/Rchg(36), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(37), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 20: Staff Mastery 
Level 22: Taunt -- PrfZng-Taunt/Rchg(A)
Level 24: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 26: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 28: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(39), GssSynFr--Build%(39), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(39), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(40), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(40)
Level 30: Ground Zero -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(40), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(42), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Obl-%Dam(43)
Level 32: Kick -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(A)
Level 35: Innocuous Strikes -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(43), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(43), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 38: Sky Splitter -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(46), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Mk'Bit-Dam%(48)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 47: Tough -- ImpSki-Status(A)
Level 49: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(50), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(50), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(50)
Level 1: Gauntlet 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(11), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13)
Level 1: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 1: Combo Level 1 
Level 1: Combo Level 2 
Level 1: Combo Level 3 
Level 24: Double Jump 
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 50: Portal Jockey 
Level 50: Task Force Commander 
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 20: Form of the Body 
Level 20: Form of the Mind 
Level 20: Form of the Soul 
------------

 

 

Notes:

• Most procs are turned off here except for Tanker ATOs which in Mid's seems to just add one stack of +6% res.
• This includes all stat-enhancing accolades but no Incarnates
• Melee defense includes one stack of Guarded Spin (+17.39% defense melee/lethal)
• Might of the Tanker is also in Guarded Spin and it's easy to get at least two stacks of the 6% res.
• Staff's Form of Body also gives me 15s of +13% res whenever I hit with Sky Splitter and 3 stacks of FoB.  Sky Splitter has 5s-7s recharge depending on Hasten.
• Hasten is not perma but has a 26s down time.
• Regen/Recovery numbers shown above are not accurate due to a Mid's bug with Gamma Boost.  This is showing regen when it's highest (0% health).  Endurance recovery is higher at full health than shown here.  With Particle Shielding + Gamma Boost, I have 5 end/sec recovery at full health.  I probably have too much recovery, tbh, and should move some slots.

My experience so far is decent.  Much better against CoT and ghosts thanks to Tactics, Focused Acc, and added defense since my last build attempt.  Need to try putting it up against a Cimeroran Phalanx solo to see how it does there.  With no DDR to speak of, the defense is still susceptible to being fully stripped away into the negatives, but outside of enemies-buffed +4x8 ITFs, I have not had an issue with this as I'm still left with considerable resist and regen, not to mention that beautiful 1110hp absorb shield that is refreshed every 35-40s if I need it.  I've put it on manual control and treat it like a second heal now.  Sometimes I forget to even use it.

 

Finally, except for a pair of Winter IOs to get a bit of that slow resistance, I haven't slotted any other purples/winters.  So there is room for more improvement here.   Welcome any suggestions.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by ZemX

[Linea]

801, not 802.  I don't know who did 802.

 

I do recommend RadA. But I also do not consider it immortal.  When fully IOed and Incarnated and built for durability, there's very little in the official game that can kill any tank.  RadA probably just fits you and your playstyle better than the other armors.

[Werner]

Rereading the OP, I don't consider Dark Armor's weakness to be knockback protection since that is easily addressed. It's the mediocre defense and lack of defense debuff resistance (DDR) that I find troublesome when building and playing Dark Armor. While I've not built or played Radiation Armor, it looks like it has those same weaknesses?

Edited September 20, 2021 by Werner

[Erratic1]

10 minutes ago, Werner said:

Rereading the OP, I don't consider Dark Armor's weakness to be knockback protection since that is easily addressed. It's the mediocre defense and lack of defense debuff resistance (DDR) that I find troublesome when building and playing Dark Armor. While I've not built or played Radiation Armor, it looks like it has those same weaknesses?

 

Is there a resistance based set that comes with DDR?

 

Edit: Well, other than Invulnerability that is.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Erratic1

[Werner]

20 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

Is there a resistance based set that comes with DDR?

 

Edit: Well, other than Invulnerability that is.

 

Yeah, Invulnerability can be quite good in that regard, because even with only 50% DDR, the times you really need your defenses to hold up tend to be when surrounded, and when surrounded Invincibility is kicking in with a great boost to defense . Also, defense debuffing attacks are often lethal, which will be hitting your 90% resistance when they get through. So it can be pretty solid in the face of most defense debuffs. Not Super Reflexes solid, but solid. Big psi hole, of course, though partially pluggable. Other than Invuln, I'd have to dig through Mids' for resistance sets with DDR. Invuln and Dark are the resistance sets I know well.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Werner

[Erratic1]

4 minutes ago, Werner said:

 

Yeah, Invulnerability can be quite good in that regard, because even with only 50% DDR, the times you really need your defenses to hold up tend to be when surrounded, and when surrounded Invincibility is kicking in with a great boost to defense . Also, defense debuffing attacks are often lethal, which will be hitting your 90% resistance when they get through. So it can be pretty solid in the face of most defense debuffs. Not Super Reflexes solid, but solid. Big psi hole, of course, though partially pluggable. Other than Invuln, I'd have to dig through Mids' for resistance sets with DDR. Invuln and Dark are the resistance sets I know well.

 

I am pretty sure none of them do, but they tend to bring other things to the table that Invulnerability lacks as a tradeoff. Still, those tradeoffs are a matter of taste and won't appeal to all.

[Hew]

I have been wiped on a ultra twinked out rad brute by, of all things, carnies. Flash, or double flash, and thats it. You hit anything and they just whittle you down with double-damage temp psi damage, and its all over.

[Sovera]

13 hours ago, Hew said:

I have been wiped on a ultra twinked out rad brute by, of all things, carnies. Flash, or double flash, and thats it. You hit anything and they just whittle you down with double-damage temp psi damage, and its all over.

 

Imagine 2021 and not having Focused Accuracy.

 

I kid, I kid. But it's the reason why I don't leave home without it 😜

[ZemX]

5 hours ago, Sovera said:

Imagine 2021 and not having Focused Accuracy.

 

I kid, I kid. But it's the reason why I don't leave home without it 😜

 

It honestly wasn't a big deal when I was playing defense-based Stalkers, had a well-slotted Build Up that was refreshed often by an ATO proc, and wasn't the person responsible for getting everything in the room to shoot at me.

 

It's definitely made a huge difference already since that last respec.  Nice thing about Rad is the plentiful recovery because boy is that thing an endurance hog when you need to use it.