Focused Feedback: Advanced Difficulty Options and Challenge Mode

[Ruin Mage]

28 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

-def Goldbrickers do in ASF

Smelters in ADO-enabled runs hit with Melt Armor.

There's sonic grenades (though those are -res IIRC)

[KaizenSoze]

I am sure this suggestion will be greeted with boos and hisses.

 

Devs, when you get around to adding these modes to the ITF. Make sure and add plenty of -fly at max difficultly.

 

One of the main reasons that people can solo it is the relatively weak ranged attacks. That isn't the only reason, but it helps a lot.

 

This from someone who mostly plays VEATs which get shredded in melee on ITFs. But a flying Fortunata can solo it.

[Ruin Mage]

Here is my last run on Saturday night.

Relentless, 186 deaths. It starts from the Cauldron mission (oops)

You can skip around as need be, but its a nice show of what to expect. We don't do the ripple 2 & 3 fight because of lag and time.

[KaizenSoze]

47 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

Here is my last run on Saturday night.

Relentless, 186 deaths. It starts from the Cauldron mission (oops)

You can skip around as need be, but its a nice show of what to expect. We don't do the ripple 2 & 3 fight because of lag and time.

Still watching, but I see familiar faces from our run. 

 

<== Customer Service Rep

 

The bio tanker is holding up pretty well.

[Ruin Mage]

The bio tanker was great, but Bio can only do so much (such as when certain powers are down)

Also hi Rep!

[Mezmera]

I'm enjoying the variety in the difficulty settings very much.  Its noticeably tougher with those special powered baddies but still pretty fast paced on the more relaxed runs.  The tougher version is pretty fun and keeps you on your toes, the auto-hit type of stuff is well done with plenty of visible warning (unless you turn a corner at the wrong time).  

 

After you do it a few times you start catching on.  This feels like just the right nuanced step up while still encompassing everyone's play time.  

[Cobalt Arachne]

On 11/6/2021 at 3:51 PM, ShardWarrior said:

Having just run the new Aeon SF at Vicious level difficulty, this statement is not at all accurate.  There were plenty of special auto-hit un-resistable damage 1 shot kill you powers being used.  Are these part of the new difficulty or just native to the new SF at normal difficulty?

 

Assuming this is referring to the Golden Brickernaut's self-destruct.

Telegraphed moves with a positioned warning indicator are not exactly auto-hit, they 'miss' by you moving out of the locations they are targeting. They also aren't doing special un-resistable damage, they just do unsurvivably large numbers. 😛 My statement still reads accurately.

If any enemies have true auto-hit in any of their regular attack powers that are not telegraphed with a chance to avoid them by moving, that's likely a bug.

[KeepDistance]

Nit on the patch notes: the screenshot at the bottom of the Challenge Mode section is not showing anything described in that section. The description of what's in the screenshot is given in the section called "World Changes: Tasks", all the way at the other end of the patch notes.

[KeepDistance]

On 11/7/2021 at 11:47 AM, ShardWarrior said:

On 11/7/2021 at 10:40 AM, arcane said:

Many will have IO’s of some kind already unless the team is for all noobs or all psychos 🙂

Very large assumption you are making here.  I just ran both parts of a Posi TF and no one had set bonuses of any kind. 

 

Anecdotal and so maybe tangential, but I never bother to slot IOs until lvl 27 or so. Often I don't bother to slot anything at all until then. The content up to level 45 or so just doesn't seem to need it. Mostly what I lack is accuracy, but enough people slot tactics or the like that usually it doesn't matter.

Edited November 9, 2021 by KeepDistance

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, KeepDistance said:

Nit on the patch notes: the screenshot at the bottom of the Challenge Mode section is not showing anything described in that section. The description of what's in the screenshot is given in the section called "World Changes: Tasks", all the way at the other end of the patch notes.

Advanced Difficulty Options [Focused Feedback: Advanced Difficulty Options and Challenge Mode]

With the release of the Dr. Aeon Strike Force, we’ve completely rewritten the challenge settings code and greatly expanded what we can do with future content in terms of accommodating difficulty options and delivering curated challenges to players seeking that type of gameplay experience.

 

These optional difficulty settings are accessed from the Challenge Settings menu for content that has been added to the feature (as of Page 3 this will only include the Dr. Aeon Strike Force). These options require being level 50 to select and change the content in various ways. These new difficulty modes were hand-crafted and balanced, and are not based on the previous Challenge Settings that exist currently.

 

 

Facing content with these Advanced Difficulty Settings enabled will grant the team more rewards for overcoming challenges, additionally, some badges may only be available by going above the normal difficulty setting. The design goal of these options was to ensure all roles on a team (tank, damage, control, and support) could contribute in a rewarding way, and give Incarnate level characters using Invention-Origin enhancements something to test their fully-built characters against.

 

Challenge Modes [Focused Feedback: Advanced Difficulty Options and Challenge Mode]

The old TF and Flashback challenges have been rewritten using the above code. This has resulted in several changes to the way certain badges are obtained:

• The various Flashback badges for completing challenges at various levels now do it based on the story arc maximum level, instead of the hidden Stature Level which made it difficult to know which story arcs counted for what. Only story arcs that reward 5 merits or more will count towards the challenge badges.
• Options for 'No Incarnate Powers' and 'Only Alpha Slot' were added to the powers options for any arc in the SL9 (Level 45-50) categories. Completing a Flashback arc using these two new options rewards two new Ouroboros category badges.
• Task Forces & Strike Forces that have a "Master of X" badge associated with them now have a dedicated challenge option for the badge. The individual power restriction and defeat limit options no longer work for receiving these badges.
• Selecting the "Master of" challenge for a given TF will set the team size to 8, maximum defeats to 0, disable temporary powers, and disable Incarnate powers. When successfully completed, the challenge will award the "Master of" badge and a Rare Incarnate Component.

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Glacier Peak
moar

[KeepDistance]

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

Advanced Difficulty Options [Focused Feedback: Advanced Difficulty Options and Challenge Mode]

With the release of the Dr. Aeon Strike Force, we’ve completely rewritten the challenge settings code and greatly expanded what we can do with future content in terms of accommodating difficulty options and delivering curated challenges to players seeking that type of gameplay experience.

 

These optional difficulty settings are accessed from the Challenge Settings menu for content that has been added to the feature (as of Page 3 this will only include the Dr. Aeon Strike Force). These options require being level 50 to select and change the content in various ways. These new difficulty modes were hand-crafted and balanced, and are not based on the previous Challenge Settings that exist currently.

 

 

Facing content with these Advanced Difficulty Settings enabled will grant the team more rewards for overcoming challenges, additionally, some badges may only be available by going above the normal difficulty setting. The design goal of these options was to ensure all roles on a team (tank, damage, control, and support) could contribute in a rewarding way, and give Incarnate level characters using Invention-Origin enhancements something to test their fully-built characters against.

 

Challenge Modes [Focused Feedback: Advanced Difficulty Options and Challenge Mode]

The old TF and Flashback challenges have been rewritten using the above code. This has resulted in several changes to the way certain badges are obtained:

• The various Flashback badges for completing challenges at various levels now do it based on the story arc maximum level, instead of the hidden Stature Level which made it difficult to know which story arcs counted for what. Only story arcs that reward 5 merits or more will count towards the challenge badges.
• Options for 'No Incarnate Powers' and 'Only Alpha Slot' were added to the powers options for any arc in the SL9 (Level 45-50) categories. Completing a Flashback arc using these two new options rewards two new Ouroboros category badges.
• Task Forces & Strike Forces that have a "Master of X" badge associated with them now have a dedicated challenge option for the badge. The individual power restriction and defeat limit options no longer work for receiving these badges.
• Selecting the "Master of" challenge for a given TF will set the team size to 8, maximum defeats to 0, disable temporary powers, and disable Incarnate powers. When successfully completed, the challenge will award the "Master of" badge and a Rare Incarnate Component.

 

 

I'm not sure why you quoted the whole section of the patch notes in response. Maybe you were looking for clarification on my feedback?

 

The screenshot I'm referring to is the one at the very end of the quote above. That screenshot shows the "Old School Challenge" setting, which is not described in the quoted section of the patch notes. Instead, the "Old School Challenge" setting is described in the "World Changes: Tasks" section, about 80% of the way through the patch notes.

 

I suspect that the screenshot that was intended to be shown there would be focused on the "Master" challenge setting, not the "Old School Challenge" setting. As it stands, an insufficiently careful reader would get the impression that the "Master of X" badges require running with no enhancement set bonuses. (In fact, the whole reason I posted is because exactly this confusion surfaced in a private discussion.)

[GamerKate]

On 11/7/2021 at 6:44 PM, Albion said:

So to bring back the topic from other thread, and trying to keep it nice, hard mode is not a monster that will force you to slot this way or play that other way, it is just an optional challenge setting, that you yourself decide to participate in, and so should abide by some mechanics like in any game that has you facing oponents who would love to see you hug the floor while you rather return that to them; it has been tested already at large that can be done with any at build and any type of team origin (even a pug), it is going to be a hardship if you are unprepared and just fool around or don't listen to leads and do your work?, well yes but that's on you, if you are having fun though and all on the team go with that vibe, cheers, there is not a single thing being enforced or railroading you this way or the other, there is even optional ways to avoid the worse engagements (more options inside an optional feature!, madness). In my personal experience, I have gotten used to a certain way to go in runs, and had to rewire my brain the first three times in, which was great, it is never good to entrench oneself on "what works best".

 

I like the way this is stated, as it also supports my personal issue with TFs and Trials etc - they cant be soloed, for the majority. 

I am completely supportive of these extra challenging difficulty options being added to the game for players who like to run difficult conent. Having ultra-hard difficulty settings for thos eplayers does not impact my game at all. I only wish the same consideration was given to players such as myself, who play primarily fir the narrative and not at all for challenge or even loot. I do run TFs on Live, and invariably, they are 8-person teams who have all run the TF befire nd so we just zerg through it, and I dont get to spend any time looking at the cool unique maps or whatever, its just rush to whoever the tank is hitting and hit that.

I want difficult options to go the other way, down. For example, I want to be able to solo (or at least duo it with my gf)the Ms Liberty TF on my own time. I dont need loot at all from it a part from badges, if thats what it takes to get the leet players to let me have that.

I live with my elderly infirm mother, and sometimes she calls me and I have to pause my game and park my toon in a safe place and go attend to her. I cannot do that in a pickup 8-man TF which expects to not stop everything for half an hour. 

"Well there's lots of solo content you can do instead"
"Dont play a mutli-player game if you want to solo"

"Theyve been designed for teams"

I've heard them all, I know I'm going to get roasted here, but that quote up top works for my argument as well. Making TFs soloable would be an optionable choice that would not force uber players to solo TFs.

Eco

[ShardWarrior]

On 11/8/2021 at 12:48 PM, Cobalt Arachne said:

Assuming this is referring to the Golden Brickernaut's self-destruct.

Telegraphed moves with a positioned warning indicator are not exactly auto-hit, they 'miss' by you moving out of the locations they are targeting. They also aren't doing special un-resistable damage, they just do unsurvivably large numbers. 😛 My statement still reads accurately.

If any enemies have true auto-hit in any of their regular attack powers that are not telegraphed with a chance to avoid them by moving, that's likely a bug.

 

That was one of them yes.  Semantics aside, nothing to change with the new SF.

[Ruin Mage]

3 hours ago, MrCaptainMan said:

I want difficult options to go the other way, down. For example, I want to be able to solo (or at least duo it with my gf)the Ms Liberty TF on my own time. I dont need loot at all from it a part from badges, if thats what it takes to get the leet players to let me have that.

You can solo it/duo it. The only issue comes in the AVs, which will take time. Now if you mean every AT should be able to solo/duo it, that is a balance thing because not all ATs are soloers of AVs. You can, already in game, make it easier on yourself (Shivans, nukes, lore pets, envenomned dagger temp power, etc)

I'm not sure what downward would look like given that very few of the AVs in end-level TFs have EB versions for example.

Now, most TFs (if not all, I forget) also have no timer on them. You can take your time solo/duo in them all you want. Nothing really needs to change.

[GamerKate]

20 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

You can solo it/duo it. The only issue comes in the AVs, which will take time. Now if you mean every AT should be able to solo/duo it, that is a balance thing because not all ATs are soloers of AVs. You can, already in game, make it easier on yourself (Shivans, nukes, lore pets, envenomned dagger temp power, etc)

I'm not sure what downward would look like given that very few of the AVs in end-level TFs have EB versions for example.

Now, most TFs (if not all, I forget) also have no timer on them. You can take your time solo/duo in them all you want. Nothing really needs to change.

I have a lvl 50 claws/SR scrapper. I am stoked to hear how I can solo MS Liberty's TF.

You say 'Nothing really needs to change', as though change is not a part of the game as it is.

The CoT used to need 8 people. No doubt someone was thinking 'nothing really needs to change', but it did, and the game is better for it. Heck, TFs used to require at least 2 players to start them. Are you campaigning to put that back the way it was supposed to be? 😄

I tried to solo the TF with Reichsmann in it last week. I got to the first AV and it was impossible for me. No idea what cool missions are after that.

ALso, tbh, full team TFs are execrable. My screen is just a huge mess of effects for the most part.

I joined a Hami raid last week too, to get the badge. I was told to go to the Abyss, so I did, and was immediately teleported somewhere. Then I was told to wait until the tanks had lured something, and then I was teleported into a horrible mass of crap. I tabbed until Hami appeared and then just spammed attacks and shortyl afterwards I got a badge and found myself in a huge empty hole in the ground.

The majority of TFs I join, I end up thinking they might as well just spawn a series of Avs one by one in a small room, because all we do is rush from AV to AV.

I dont mind actually using tqactics or what have you to fight a mob - one of my favourite fights is the Marshall Blitz fight in one of the SGGs, that's fun, its not just 'hit mob till dead', and I can do it on my own and appreciate the story and the map and whatnot.

But its a pity I cant ever see more than the first mission in a TF on my own.

[Sovera]

24 minutes ago, MrCaptainMan said:

I have a lvl 50 claws/SR scrapper. I am stoked to hear how I can solo MS Liberty's TF.

 

You can already solo TFs at -1x1 if needed. It takes only a modicum of a build to do a +0 AV. But a TF is still group content so you will need a decent build. Fortunately you can boop @Bill Z Bubba for all things Claws/SR.

 

That said an option to turn an AV into an EB is something that might be bad to have, but, again, Sentinels and Scrappers and Tankers and Bruters, I've soloed my way through the TFs including the AVs.

 

Earning oneself a decent build can -also- be something soloed. I routinely solo all TFs while leveling at +1x8 so it can be done as a fact (and while leveling means I don't have all the IO bells and whistles, plus slots, of a level 50). But again, a decent build, perhaps some Envenomed Daggers (not something I use but it's available).

 

Now to be honest having stopped at the first AV of the Reinshman TFF was just as well because that's one of the few TFs that is definitely group content when you reach the last boss. But heck, if you happen to be on Everlasting I'll play with you 😄). The Lady Grey TF is also one that asks for multiple ATs for Hami (can be soloed, but very hard).

 

[Cobalt Arachne]

5 hours ago, MrCaptainMan said:

Making TFs soloable would be an optionable choice that would not force uber players to solo TFs.

We've already had some internal discussions on a new 'Easy Mode' for TFs that allow them to be solo-able by any character for reduced rewards. Can't comment on any of the specifics, as it's not a Page 3 thing.

At the very least we would have some details to nail down on the how's and what's before committing to it as a feature, but it's very possible to do and on our radar.

[PeregrineFalcon]

Please don't add a special mode to make Task Forces soloable.

 

99.99% of the content in this game is soloable. There should be at least a little bit of content that usually requires a team.

[Ruin Mage]

I agree with Falcon. TFs already can be relatively solo'ed, outside of some sets/builds/ATs depending.

Easy Mode is already on HC as is, what with ease of access to stuff like Lore Pets & Envenom Dagger etc.

[EmperorSteele]

I'm for it!

 

The TFs have a lot of lore which gets thrown aside in the rush rush rush to get rewards, and it'd be nice to actually experience it and take one's time without holding others back, or worry about getting stuck because one's favorite character doesn't have the tools to deal with a +4 AV. As long as it's an option (not a total change to the TFs), and the rewards are reduced as CA said, I'd call it fair.

[Glacier Peak]

I can see it now... arguments will abound, "if THEY get harder difficulty options, WE want easier difficulty options." But just telling someone something is easy is just as subjective as saying art looks good or playing a regen is fun. This game is easy enough for me because I've paid down the risks with my experience over time. Newer players aren't as vested, thus the risks appear in greater number. My point is what may be difficult is entirely subjective. I can guarantee everyone who has played this game has been defeated at least once. Let me ask you something, has the same thing defeated you again or are you better at mitigation that threat with the tools at your disposal? Keep dying to the same thing, but refuse to change your playstyle? Well, as long as you aren't expecting a different outcome, I hope that is fun for you. Otherwise that is a popular definition for crazy. 

 

These advanced difficulty OPTIONS are just that. 

[arcane]

25 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Please don't add a special mode to make Task Forces soloable.

 

99.99% of the content in this game is soloable. There should be at least a little bit of content that usually requires a team.

Agree. The game is already easy enough to solo most TF’s, so an easy mode beyond the existing easy mode is a little questionable.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, MrCaptainMan said:

I have a lvl 50 claws/SR scrapper. I am stoked to hear how I can solo MS Liberty's TF.

 

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

You can already solo TFs at -1x1 if needed. It takes only a modicum of a build to do a +0 AV. But a TF is still group content so you will need a decent build. Fortunately you can boop @Bill Z Bubba for all things Claws/SR.

 

Don't look at me. Aeon's kicked my ass every time I've tried. Course all the AVs before him weren't an issue...

[ZacKing]

2 hours ago, MrCaptainMan said:

ALso, tbh, full team TFs are execrable. My screen is just a huge mess of effects for the most part.

 

This is an important piece of feedback I think gets lost or just plain ignored here from the "everything has to be a team!" crowd.  Teaming is great and, but having to deal with the excessive VFX spam and the totally gross coloring some people put on their powers it makes teaming less desirable.  When my character is getting buried underneath layer upon layer of overcolored, oversaturated buffs to the point I can't even see where I am, teaming isn't fun.

[Sovera]

To be honest the only thing needed at most would be AVs-to-EBs. We already have a difficulty slider that can turn the game into -1x1.

 

But what the heck is it with the 'no' to making TFs soloable? Which they already handily are? Is this hurting anyone...? Will an AV-to-EB option for that small minority who prefers to solo because of time constraints twist anyone's arm?

 

Nearly all TFs already are soloable so the difficulty option for the no-AVs to extend to TFs will do nothing more than add an option that will not steal from anyone's bowl of kibble. Lower the merit reward, sure, but anyone running at at a low difficulty and solo is already taking a hit compared to running with a team at a faster time with more mobs.

 

It wouldn't bother me to even have the full merit reward. Who cares? In a world with AE and farming and where we can spend five minutes in a farm map and make five million what's with the cringing from someone spending an hour to earn 40 merits?