Upcoming Placate Changes

[StrikerFox]

There's are some changes to Placate coming. They're listed in the Beta Patch notes. It can be read here:

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/32394-beta-patch-notes-for-november-5th-2021-issue-27-second-chances-page-3-build-1/

Placate [Focused Feedback: Sleep and Placate]

The Placate targeted power, typically found in Stalker power sets has been changed to meet the following standards:

-Range 60ft (some versions were set at 50ft)

-Cast time 0.8s, down from 1.5s (sometimes 1.67s)

-Instant Hit (down from 0.5s delay upon activation)

-Changed from Single Target into 15ft radius Sphere AoE

-Target Cap increased from 1 to 5

This applies to the following set categories:

Stalker Melee
Bane Spider Soldier
Widow Teamwork

I like that it's an AoE. It's cast time change won't amount to much. Maybe more effective while leveling with Placate taking effect sooner as it may prevent multiple incoming attacks. Slight improvement to the Empower combo for DB Stalkers. I don't see myself respec to implement it on any of my Stalkers.

[Zalari]

Neat change, but isn't terribly useful for the actual Stalker AT, as their ATO set that adds a Hide proc is much more useful than wasting a power slot on Placate itself.

[carroto]

I don't remember the full analysis but with the old cast time of Placate it ended up causing a reduction in DPS when used with most powers.  Some sets had no powers that could be used productively with it.  The change that's coming is quite a significant reduction in cast time, which I suspect could mean that Placate would be included in many top DPS attack chains.  One other minor benefit of including Placate is that it costs no end, so using it will slightly increase endurance efficiency.

 

However as stated above, with most typical builds and play styles these days it's questionable whether it will really be worth including in many builds.  Sometimes I end up short on slots but with room for an extra power or two.  I look for some other utility power over Placate in those situations because it's really almost useless.  With this change I will probably choose Placate.  So I doubt I'll be taking the time to rework any existing builds to squeeze it in, but it may find its way into future builds that it otherwise wouldn't.

 

The main benefit of this change is that those who like the old AS-from-hide and Placate/AS Stalker play style can enjoy it without that nagging knowledge that they're gimping themselves by doing so.  I'm quite pleased to see it, even if I may not benefit from it much myself.

 

I need to look at how this affects VEATs.  I made a post a while back looking at Placate for them and due to their 50% crits there were literally no powers that benefited from Placate.  I doubt the new Placate will change that, but as above at least those who like using it for theme won't be hurting themselves so badly by doing so.

[DreadShinobi]

More importantly placate now accepts taunt IO sets (category renamed to threat). Mocking Beratement and Perfect Zinger have some very valuable set bonuses, specifically their combination of a +recharge set bonus with +defense set bonuses. Now that placate has value holding unique set bonuses for your build, including it in your build as a utility/niche power pick has more incentive. 5 target cap increases the potential utility functions quite a bit.

[Croax]

If i understand this correct, the changes to placate are nothing more than a part of the 'peaceful' control powers change. The change seems not to be made with only the Stalker AT in mind. But nontheless the change effects Stalkers without doing anything big. I will still skip it. It is now more comparable to taunt on a scrapper.

The only way i could see a benefit could be Energy Melee getting out more fast Energy Transfers. But that would need testing if it is better than using a regular attack. My EM/EA Stalker has a little gap in the attack chain, probably this could be useful.

Still Placate is a very niche Power.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Croax

[ZorkNemesis]

I'm just amused by the idea of Placate with a Perfect Zinger psi proc causing a kill.  Imagine killing someone with what amounts to a Jedi mind trick.

 

That said, probably highly impractical as i'm sure a damage proc in Placate would conpletely invalidate the effects.

[ZemX]

21 hours ago, carroto said:

The change that's coming is quite a significant reduction in cast time, which I suspect could mean that Placate would be included in many top DPS attack chains.

 

Unless I'm doing something wrong, no it won't.  Placate + Stealth AS is going to be around 4s ArcanaTime and will deal scale 7 damage.  Quick AS, even without the crit, is scale 2.76 damage in 1.188s cast time.  And it gets better from there with crit chances.

 

Placate may see some use in strictly solo Stalker builds, but it's no use on a team or in improving the Stalker's damage output.  The entire idea of Placate hails from the original faulty assumption in the creation of the AT that it would be some sort of hit-and-run assassin type.  Yet even way back then you were doing better to stay and scrap after your initial AS. 

 

Nowadays when you can build a Stalker to be tremendously sturdy, I usually try to fit Provoke into the build somewhere as getting things to attack me ends up being a bigger problem than stopping them FROM attacking me.

[carroto]

56 minutes ago, ZemX said:

Placate + Stealth AS

 

You wouldn't use Placate with AS, but with a hard-hitting attack to get a crit from it.

[ZemX]

2 minutes ago, carroto said:

You wouldn't use Placate with AS, but with a hard-hitting attack to get a crit from it.

 

Fair point.  Maybe for something with an already lengthy animation or a big AoE.

[Hjarki]

If Placate had a 12 sec recharge, this would permit it to be used rotationally to ramp up damage - essentially you'd be replacing a low damage maneuver with a zero damage maneuver that made your next (high damage) attack auto-crit.

 

With a 60 sec recharge, it seems like it will end up being more like an Aim/Build Up for AE. However, with a 5 target cap, it's hard to find AE that works all that well. 5 targets in a 15 yard radius doesn't mesh well with 5 target AE (which are almost always Cones) - if you're surrounded by 16 mobs, there's a good chance you won't hit the Placated mobs with your AE.

[ZemX]

8 hours ago, Hjarki said:

With a 60 sec recharge, it seems like it will end up being more like an Aim/Build Up for AE. However, with a 5 target cap, it's hard to find AE that works all that well. 5 targets in a 15 yard radius doesn't mesh well with 5 target AE (which are almost always Cones) - if you're surrounded by 16 mobs, there's a good chance you won't hit the Placated mobs with your AE.

 

Doesn't matter who you hit with Placate.  The 50% crit chance on the follow-up AoE comes from the Hide status Placate confers to the Stalker, not the Placate effect that lands on targets.  Placate being an AoE will only reduce the incoming attacks and lessen the chance your Hide is spoiled.  But there's not much chance of that happening anyway with a shortened Placate animation and a quick follow-up attack that isn't Assassin Strike.   Soft-capped defense helps too. 

 

The reason you might not want to use an AoE with Placate is if you're on a full team.  There you already have a 31% chance to randomly crit outside of Hide.   With Placate and an AoE, you only get 50% chance.  Coupled with the longish recharge, that's not that much of an improvement for the cost of a power slot.   Better to use it with a ST follow-up attack to get a 100% crit.

 

Still don't think I'll bite.  I can't think of a power in my build I'd drop where Placate would bring more to the table.  Maybe Hard Mode will change my mind.

[Shred Monkey]

I often use placate as a control power when leveling up solo... it's effectively the same as a single target fear or sleep power to put a target on ice while you beat down his buddies.   The new power sounds like it would be even more useful in this manner because it can hit more enemies. 

 

I'll be diving into my spreadsheets to see if I can find a way to abuse it in each of the powersets where there are 2 big hitters... but the high recharge makes it seem unlikely I will find what I'm looking for.

 

If you really want this to be useful, give to blasters.  They're the AT that needs an AoE threat wipe.

[kelika2]

DoTs from spines and other stuff like Caltrops fucks with Placates crit, wouldnt procs do the same?

[ZemX]

DoTs don't directly spoil the crit.  That comes from the Hidden status conferred by Placate.  A DoT that is still ticking from a previous attack doesn't count as another attack, so it doesn't unhide you.  DoTs from pets don't ever unhide you.  That's why Shield Charge and Lighting Rod don't unhide you.  They are implemented as pets.   

 

What the DoTs or pets ticking damage DO do though is notify enemies.  So they will spoil the placate effect and cause the mobs to attack you again, which if you haven't gotten your Hide crit yet means it will be spoiled if they hit you first.  Shouldn't be a problem unless you are trying for a Hidden AS after Placate... and you really shouldn't be doing that.

[tidge]

 

This is where I am:

 

On 11/9/2021 at 7:51 AM, ZemX said:

Still don't think I'll bite.  I can't think of a power in my build I'd drop where Placate would bring more to the table.  Maybe Hard Mode will change my mind.

 

I won't even bother with Solo hard mode, so I'm even less likely to try to decide on which power to drop to add Placate. As it is now, with my favorite Stalker, I don't really have any slots to spare for it. If I absolutely wanted to fit Placate into that build, I think I would have to make the hard (for me, YMMV) call to not have a pool travel power... which on that build is holding the Winter's Gift Slow Resistance unique... which means that I'd have to be relying even more on P2W/temp/SG Base powers for the performance I've become accustomed to.

 

On 11/10/2021 at 2:06 PM, Shred Monkey said:

I often use placate as a control power when leveling up solo... it's effectively the same as a single target fear or sleep power to put a target on ice while you beat down his buddies.   The new power sounds like it would be even more useful in this manner because it can hit more enemies.

 

I can easily imagine Stalkers (and Widows) making use of Placate while leveling. Without access to all powers and many slots, defenses won't be as good as they will be on an (exemplared) level 50 build. There may also be some lower-level content that folks want to run at extreme difficulties in which the "breather" provided by a Placate would be valuable. I'm thinking about all the times when I've started a SSA1 and I've forgotten to reset the +N/x8 difficulty setting! 

[Haijinx]

Seems like its OP actually at least for stalkers who have the better armor sets.  

 

Not sure its still worth taking though.

[Redletter]

On 12/12/2021 at 7:05 AM, Haijinx said:

Seems like its OP actually at least for stalkers who have the better armor sets.  

 

How so? The effect of Placate is identical across stalkers. A stalker using Regeneration gets the same exact benefit as the one who picked Energy Armor - instantly hiding yourself, and as a side benefit you take a few enemies off the board from attacking you.

 

I think the only secondary which benefits from this MORE than any other is Ninja, because Ninja ALSO comes with an aoe placate? So you could, theoretically:

 

Assassin's strike > Hidden Proc > Attack > Placate > Attack > Smoke Bomb > Assassin's Strike (assuming you cant assassin's strike MORE often than presented)

 

Which SOUNDS nice, but there are far more efficient strings that capitalize on how your crits work, and honestly? If the thing your smacking isnt dead after the third attack, then you're facing something that probably is being fought, or supposed to be fought, by a team and you're unlikely to need THAT many crit opportunities.

 

Really, the change to placate makes it good for objective assassins who're just a BIT too squishy at the moment, or if the mission requires MORE than the death of the single target (many "Kill this guy" objectives are ACTUALLY "Kill this guy and the goons that spawn nearby him). Which enables them to go balls deep into a map, find the target (and his possey) smack them REALLY hard, then say "wait no dude, I was joking, it's a prank! You've been pranked, haha" so that way they dont then get ganked by half a dozen guys...

 

Just so that they can then smack them AGAIN. As is the Stalker way.

[Haijinx]

32 minutes ago, Redletter said:

 

How so? The effect of Placate is identical across stalkers. A stalker using Regeneration gets the same exact benefit as the one who picked Energy Armor - instantly hiding yourself, and as a side benefit you take a few enemies off the board from attacking you.

 

 

Just a nice survival tool.  For Stalkers that already have Scrapper level survival (EnA, Inv, SR)  its going to be more useful than say ... Regen .. or something, which need the help more.

 

Well not more useful per se, but more over the top useful.  Its going to be really great for the weaker sets.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Haijinx

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

than say ... Regen .. or something, which need the help more.

 

take it back.