Leveling Bypass

[TorduVide]

Hi there!  I don't know about you, yet for me leveling the standard levels from 1 to 50 has always been the single worst part of this game, yet I also know that it can be a rather important learning experience, at least the first time through.  It can teach you so much and, what it can't directly teach you, it can make you question enough to ask Help and thus learn from other players over time.

 

Leveling can be quite important for new and returning players to grasp this game as, compared to most modern mmos, it can be pretty quirky.  Levelling is a good learning tool, yet, for me, back in live it was the single reason that, since starting the game back when it first came out, I only ever managed to get 2 max level characters and, ultimately, only got a total of 5 characters.  I ended up taking many long breaks from the game simply because, for me, the leveling was so dull.

 

Now I fully understand that there's many that disagree and say they enjoy the experience, whether it's a new character with powersets they've done before or doing whole new powersets to them, they'll enjoy it.  Yet, I've no doubt, there are quite a few that feel the same way I do.  Heck, I know there are, if there weren't then Cake wouldn't be a thing, after all!

 

Now I'm not suggesting going as far as Cake (not nearly), yet what I am, actually, suggesting is the following.

 

Suggestion and Alt Suggestion:

 

1.) Allow people that have made a character and leveled it all the way to 50 to skip levelling further characters by letting them make new characters at 50 if they so choose or letting them purchase an instant-50 from P2W or have Null give it to them.

 

or

 

2.) Allow people that have made a character, leveled it to 50, and unlocked and slotted an alpha slot to skip levelling further characters by letting them make new characters at 50 if they so choose or letting them purchase an instant-50 from P2W or have Null give it to them.

 

That's it, simple, sweet, and to the point.  Once you've done the levelling rodeo I feel as though it'd be fair to let people skip levelling from that point if they don't want to level.  There are plenty of resources already available to look into if a player wants or needs help with anything specific, from asking Help to reading guides and other things people have posted online once you get through all of the basic stuff and nuances of the game and the like that the levelling process teaches you everything else can be pretty easily asked or researched, I feel.

 

Now some people might disagree, some might say that just levelling skips one of the most important parts of end-game, incarnate, and I can agree with that, which is why I made my alternate suggestion.  Once you've unlocked and made the salvage to create and then slot your first alpha slot ability then you earn the ability to have further characters auto-leveled to 50 if you so choose.

 

There's still a lot to be done after 50, yet I feel this would be quite the quality of life improvement so please, take and adopt one of the two suggestions I made here, either one seems like it'd be a fair prerequisite to unlocking this ability and, really, it isn't too different from having an "elite" that already starts somewhat levelled up.

 

Thank you for your time.

[Greycat]

Absolutely against this. Why have the rest of the game if you're not going to play it?

 

About the only time I'd be for an instant 50 is for a PVP-only character who's limited to zones and the Arena, since that's purely for competition (and has the restriction of being PVP-only.) They've already taken a step with something similar to that in having PVP-zone-only (including arena) versions of accolades you can just pick up.

 

Besides, just because you've gotten a (say) rad/fire brute up to 50 doesn't mean you have a feel for other brutes, or other melee, or how any other AT plays. We've already had people complaining about "AE babies" since AE came out, who sit in a farm, hit 50 and have no idea how to do things like ... zone to join a team or slot a power. Making it even easier by having someone sit in a farm and then just insta-50 and not know anything about the rest of the game isn't an improvement.

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, TorduVide said:

Hi there!  I don't know about you, yet for me leveling the standard levels from 1 to 50 has always been the single worst part of this game, yet I also know that it can be a rather important learning experience, at least the first time through.  It can teach you so much and, what it can't directly teach you, it can make you question enough to ask Help and thus learn from other players over time.

 

Leveling can be quite important for new and returning players to grasp this game as, compared to most modern mmos, it can be pretty quirky.  Levelling is a good learning tool, yet, for me, back in live it was the single reason that, since starting the game back when it first came out, I only ever managed to get 2 max level characters and, ultimately, only got a total of 5 characters.  I ended up taking many long breaks from the game simply because, for me, the leveling was so dull.

 

Now I fully understand that there's many that disagree and say they enjoy the experience, whether it's a new character with powersets they've done before or doing whole new powersets to them, they'll enjoy it.  Yet, I've no doubt, there are quite a few that feel the same way I do.  Heck, I know there are, if there weren't then Cake wouldn't be a thing, after all!

 

Now I'm not suggesting going as far as Cake (not nearly), yet what I am, actually, suggesting is the following.

 

Suggestion and Alt Suggestion:

 

1.) Allow people that have made a character and leveled it all the way to 50 to skip levelling further characters by letting them make new characters at 50 if they so choose or letting them purchase an instant-50 from P2W or have Null give it to them.

 

or

 

2.) Allow people that have made a character, leveled it to 50, and unlocked and slotted an alpha slot to skip levelling further characters by letting them make new characters at 50 if they so choose or letting them purchase an instant-50 from P2W or have Null give it to them.

 

If playing from 1 to 50 the first time is important, how would your system differentiate between someone who actually had played from 1 to 50, and someone who was power-leveled to 50?

 

How would someone with a single played 50 and multiple "free" 50's fund their characters if they're not acquiring merits, drops or inf* along the way?

 

Presuming the answer to that question is, "Play the market", what would the impact on the market be if players stopped adding recipes and enhancements because they didn't have any to add due to skipping the leveling process?

 

As it's reasonable to assume that they could continue to add to the market post-50, would there be an additional system in place to ensure that all of the recipes and enhancements added were appropriately spread in level ranges, rather than all at maximum level for the content in which they dropped (or at the character's level, 50), to ensure that players who aren't auto-leveling to 50 have a selection of 1-49 recipes and enhancements?

[TheZag]

It would destroy the economy to have instant 50s.  Demand for enhancements would outpace supply and prices would skyrocket.  As you said,  Cake exists for this purpose.  Homecoming is meant to have a live server feel.

[Alchemystic]

This sorta works for games with a heavy focus on endgame content, like World of Warcraft and Guild Wars 2, but CoH only dipped its toe into the waters of endgame content before it was closed down.

 

We only have a handful of trials and task forces and one zone dedicated to the post-50 experience, so I don't think there's enough content to really merit a max level pass in a game like this.

[GraspingVileTerror]

Without weighing in on the main discussion, I do want to question the market volatility counterargument.  Is there any evidence to suggest that the market isn't sustained just as much by characters of all levels, and so long as the same number of overall players remains steady, the bucketing on the market should prevent any one level range from having a significant effect on overall quantities and value.  Or is it being suggested that we would lose the farmers who are explicitly going from 1 to 50, while ignoring the farmers who are 50+, and those numbers are significant enough to sustain a whole fragile market?

 

I wonder if there's a way to monitor for those criteria and actually have data to back up a supposition like that.

[TheZag]

You are correct that we dont have hard data numbers but not having the numbers doesnt mean that we cant come to a conclusion based on our experiences. 

 

Altoholics will alt and gear up their characters.  If they get to skip leveling then the portion of their gameplay where they can contribute to the economy is removed.  They will mostly be an enhancement drain on the market then make another 50 and drain it some more.  Marketeering would be the only way to accumulate inf fast enough to sustain this and would further drain the market.

 

Those like myself will probably use the free 50 on occasion. While leveling another toon there will be some point when i decide i could just be 50 already and skip this.  The toons i play the least are the ones i powerleveled to 50 so i dont farm anymore.  Taking away the feeling that i earned it would eventually drive me to quit playing the game.

 

I absolutely could be wrong,  but i feel this would be a likely outcome.  Ill also just go ahead and say im against free lvl 50 for no reason if thats preferred.

[Coyotedancer]

'Just going to point out here that characters that are kicked to 50 by door-sitting with an AE fire farmer aren't adding any low level recipes to the Market as it is... Every drop they get is at 50, no matter what level they are. So, having an Insta-50 button might not change the low level recipe supply as much as you think. It could hit the level 50 supply a bit, since the number of door-sitters would go down, but by how much is a question.

[TorduVide]

6 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

If playing from 1 to 50 the first time is important, how would your system differentiate between someone who actually had played from 1 to 50, and someone who was power-leveled to 50?

 

How would someone with a single played 50 and multiple "free" 50's fund their characters if they're not acquiring merits, drops or inf* along the way?

 

Presuming the answer to that question is, "Play the market", what would the impact on the market be if players stopped adding recipes and enhancements because they didn't have any to add due to skipping the leveling process?

 

As it's reasonable to assume that they could continue to add to the market post-50, would there be an additional system in place to ensure that all of the recipes and enhancements added were appropriately spread in level ranges, rather than all at maximum level for the content in which they dropped (or at the character's level, 50), to ensure that players who aren't auto-leveling to 50 have a selection of 1-49 recipes and enhancements?

To your first question, why would it need to differentiate?   I mean all this really would do is cut out the middleman of someone door sitting to 50 multiple times after the first time, that seems like a win to me.  If all people care about is getting to and playing at max level they're going to do it the quickest and laziest way possible regardless, in this game it's pretty much a completely AFK activity if someone wants it to be.

 

Second question, that's on them.  They can do that any way they so choose.  That's why the instant fifty I proposed is a choice, not something you have to do.  There's bonuses and drawbacks to an instant max level character, always have been, always will be.  If they choose to start at 50 after they get their first one then they should know that they're choosing to start their whole grind and everything else at 50 without having had the ability to grind or gain anything you normally would.

 

Also, as far as I'm aware, that system is already in place, at least for enhancements.  If you add an enhancement to the marketplace and someone buys it it will pop out literally as whatever level the person bought it as had the level slider set for, not the level you put it in as.  I can't say whether or not recipes work the same way, yet I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

[Glacier Peak]

Hey this is a great idea that can already be accomplished by playing on the Beta Brainstorm shard. Instant 50 using the Freebies Popup Menu. No need to implement this on the live shards. Now everyone can be happy!

[GraspingVileTerror]

Beta Shard characters are periodically deleted, and there isn't a consistent player population on Test.

And I think you're fully aware of that.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Coyotedancer said:

'Just going to point out here that characters that are kicked to 50 by door-sitting with an AE fire farmer aren't adding any low level recipes to the Market as it is... Every drop they get is at 50, no matter what level they are. So, having an Insta-50 button might not change the low level recipe supply as much as you think. It could hit the level 50 supply a bit, since the number of door-sitters would go down, but by how much is a question.

 

There are, as of the moment I begin this reply, 23,165 recipes on the market in sets which are capped at levels 30 or 40.  Those don't drop from level 50 critters.

[Glacier Peak]

6 minutes ago, GraspingVileTerror said:

Beta Shard characters are periodically deleted, and there isn't a consistent player population on Test.

And I think you're fully aware of that.

My characters haven't been deleted in over a year, and even when that were to occur, I could either copy them over again or recreate the character in less than 10 minutes. The OP didn't indicate they cared about consistent population, I think you're projecting your own feelings in to this.

 

And I know you're aware of that. 

[Coyotedancer]

16 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

There are, as of the moment I begin this reply, 23,165 recipes on the market in sets which are capped at levels 30 or 40.  Those don't drop from level 50 critters.

 

Exactly. So the type of players who would go for an instant 50... the same ones who are likely fire farm door-sitters now... probably didn't add a single one of those to the pile. The low level set availability would be unchanged if they were give this new option.  

[Luminara]

24 minutes ago, TorduVide said:

To your first question, why would it need to differentiate?   I mean all this really would do is cut out the middleman of someone door sitting to 50 multiple times after the first time, that seems like a win to me.  If all people care about is getting to and playing at max level they're going to do it the quickest and laziest way possible regardless, in this game it's pretty much a completely AFK activity if someone wants it to be.

 

You spoke of the importance of leveling to 50, at least one time to learn the game, through regular play.  If it doesn't matter, why say

 

10 hours ago, TorduVide said:

Leveling can be quite important for new and returning players to grasp this game as, compared to most modern mmos, it can be pretty quirky.  Levelling is a good learning tool

 

If it's important, then you need to implement a method of ensuring that the auto-50 token is only granted when it's earned the way you outlined, through the normal leveling process.

 

30 minutes ago, TorduVide said:

Also, as far as I'm aware, that system is already in place, at least for enhancements.  If you add an enhancement to the marketplace and someone buys it it will pop out literally as whatever level the person bought it as had the level slider set for, not the level you put it in as.  I can't say whether or not recipes work the same way, yet I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

 

That doesn't resolve the question of meeting the demand when supply is reduced by your insta-50 proposal.  There are recipes which are capped at levels 20, 30 and 40.  SOs aren't attuned and can frequently be purchased on the market for less than vendor price.  If there's a decrease in supply of these items due to more players going straight to maximum level, how do you propose to deal with that?

I'm not kicking you in the balls for making the suggestion.  I'm pointing out that there are issues which would need to be addressed.  Failure to address those issues would lead to game-wide problems.

[Luminara]

4 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

 

Exactly. So the type of players who would go for an instant 50... the same ones who are likely fire farm door-sitters now... probably didn't add a single one of those to the pile. The low level set availability would be unchanged if they were give this new option.  

 

Presuming only those players used it.

 

The point I was making is that there's a healthy population of people leveling normally.  Adding an insta-50 token could change that and have ramifications which are not being addressed in the proposal.

[Coyotedancer]

Lume... The point here is that the people who already DON'T play through the lower levels "normally" aren't adding anything to your low level recipe supply that would be missed. People who play through the content and level up the old fashioned way are the ones doing that, and they aren't the most likely audience for an Insta-50 button.   

 

ETA since we cross-posted... I think you're overstating the potential issue. I suspect that the vast majority of those people who still love the lowbie-slow-leveling experience aren't likely to change the way they play. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Coyotedancer

[lemming]

Not that big of a diff, but my level 50s still throw lower level recipes at the market when they are exemplering.

[wjrasmussen]

2 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

 

Exactly. So the type of players who would go for an instant 50... the same ones who are likely fire farm door-sitters now... probably didn't add a single one of those to the pile. The low level set availability would be unchanged if they were give this new option.  

So, these player who want rapid 50s already have a means to get a rapid 50 by door-sitting.  There isn't a problem, they have their fast 50.  No change is needed.

[Wavicle]

You can already get to 50 in a day or two. Absolutely no reason for this.

Also, when was the last time you actually played 1-50? In my opinion it is super fun, ESPECIALLY in Homecoming.

[Shenanigunner]

Since I'm always cheerful about collecting more thumbs-down on the point, I will note again that a completely separate shard with insta-50 might solve a number of problems and please a wide spectrum of players.

 

Maybe access to the shard would be unlocked by getting an alt to 50 on any of the existing servers, just to keep it from being a newb/lazy player sink.

 

But then, insta-50 on demand and it's all about end-game content for those players.

 

However... alts can't be transferred in or out and the gameconomy is isolated from the rest of the shards.

 

That would seem to address all the issues, both pro and con, and would ease up the pressure from the mad power-levelers on the regular shards (and the endless requests to streamline account gain so that getting to end-game is faster).

 

But response to this already expected. 😄

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Shenanigunner said:

Since I'm always cheerful about collecting more thumbs-down on the point, I will note again that a completely separate shard with insta-50 might solve a number of problems and please a wide spectrum of players.

 

Maybe access to the shard would be unlocked by getting an alt to 50 on any of the existing servers, just to keep it from being a newb/lazy player sink.

 

But then, insta-50 on demand and it's all about end-game content for those players.

 

However... alts can't be transferred in or out and the gameconomy is isolated from the rest of the shards.

 

That would seem to address all the issues, both pro and con, and would ease up the pressure from the mad power-levelers on the regular shards (and the endless requests to streamline account gain so that getting to end-game is faster).

 

But response to this already expected. 😄

I mean, you literally just described the test server. So I guess we already have it. Problem solved. Well done.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Wavicle

[Ruin Mage]

Like others have said; test or beta server get the job done.

Otherwise, no thanks.

[Bionic_Flea]

No thanks.  I don't think insta-50 is a good idea. 

[Coyotedancer]

3 hours ago, wjrasmussen said:

So, these player who want rapid 50s already have a means to get a rapid 50 by door-sitting.  There isn't a problem, they have their fast 50.  No change is needed.

 

That's more or less my take on it, too, honestly. If you want a fast 50, make friends with a farmer...