Fury of the gladiator -res proc

[wjrasmussen]

Looking at getting this but wonder if the -res is worth much.  It doesn't seem to say it stacks nor does it list the duration of the debuff.  Any opinions.

[ZorkNemesis]

It is well worth having if you can afford to use it.  It's -20% Res or so on the targets it hits for 10 seconds (from CoD).  It doesn't stack with itself but will refresh its duration if it procs more than once.  Anything that makes things die faster is a good deal in my opinion. It will stack with the Achille's Heel AND Annihilation -Res procs, allowing for potentially shredding a target's resistance with lucky procs and slotting; fantastic for a PBAoE that also cuts defense like Irradiate or The Lotus Drops (assuming you don't already have an aura alongside TLD).  Also good for PBAoEs that deliver damage as a DoT since the DoT will be enhanced after the proc lands (Irradiate again, but also Short Circuit, Combustion, Frost, etc).  It's great to toss into damage auras as it allows you to potentially reduce resistance just by being close enough; if you're a melee AT you're already there.

 

It also works well for it's set bonus.  For Fiery Aura, Dark Armor, or any AT without innate KB protection with an aura, three slots of Fury of the Gladiator is +3 KB protection.

[Yomo Kimyata]

If my character has a PBAoE, it has this proc.

[Snarky]

devils advocate  3 pts of KB prot is meh.  4 is good, 3 just aint.  -res is great.  if you use a commonly resisted damage type.  or fight AVs a lot.  otherwise....  the slot might be better used chasing 'real' set bonuses.

[arcane]

Yes do it. F bonuses get procs

Edited November 30, 2021 by arcane

[Sovera]

It's definitely worth it if you're fighting pylons 😄

 

For actual gameplay not so much. If no one else in the team has it it will improve the damage on an AV by about... I want to say.. 2-3 percent. And almost nothing to nothing on normal mobs.

 

Not spreadsheet, I tested it. Clearing a map with -res procs showed no difference from doing it with damage procs slotted in instead. Fighting +4 AV (+3 with alpha) and two -res procs was an improvement of 5-8%. Since we're talking of using just one -res it won't even be that. But on the plus side the damage is multiplied by 8 people in a team. As long as no one else also has the -res slotted since as you've said it does not stack.

 

Now on a pylon it's godly since it does not resist -res effects and is +0. 5-8% for two -res procs? Nope. 25%! No wonder people love those procs when they test on a pylon and the pylon is the one perfect enemy for that.

[Mezmera]

Yes use it.  It's equal to or better than a damage proc as @Sovera just illustrated as it allowed them to clear a map unnoticeably any different and maybe even marginally faster than having a damage proc slotted.  Now team with 8 people and the -res you give to the team amplifies how much better these are than just another damage proc.  

 

I have this in my long recharging pbaoe Dark Consumption so that's almost sure fire plus I also have Achilles set to almost sure fire as well in Weaken Resolve.  That's 47% -resistance I'm providing to myself and the team in spurts and this isn't even on a support character.  Sure it scales by the levels of the AV but you're still getting about 2/3 of that -resistance on target.  

Edited November 30, 2021 by Mezmera

[arcane]

29 minutes ago, Sovera said:

It's definitely worth it if you're fighting pylons 😄

 

For actual gameplay not so much. If no one else in the team has it it will improve the damage on an AV by about... I want to say.. 2-3 percent. And almost nothing to nothing on normal mobs.

 

Not spreadsheet, I tested it. Clearing a map with -res procs showed no difference from doing it with damage procs slotted in instead. Fighting +4 AV (+3 with alpha) and two -res procs was an improvement of 5-8%. Since we're talking of using just one -res it won't even be that. But on the plus side the damage is multiplied by 8 people in a team. As long as no one else also has the -res slotted since as you've said it does not stack.

 

Now on a pylon it's godly since it does not resist -res effects and is +0. 5-8% for two -res procs? Nope. 25%! No wonder people love those procs when they test on a pylon and the pylon is the one perfect enemy for that.

If it’s as-good-as in some scenarios and better in others, does that not equate to a net “better”?

[Sovera]

15 minutes ago, arcane said:

If it’s as-good-as in some scenarios and better in others, does that not equate to a net “better”?

 

Yes. As @Mezmera pointed above. But with an if. The downside is if others have the proc slotted as well. Since it does not stack it makes the slot 'wasted' (better upkeep I suppose), and since the proc is so popular due to how it behaves with pylon tests that might happen on a regular basis. . I just want to put things in perspective: most AV fights happen under one minute at most and maybe less if Lores are used. My tests were 5 minutes long. The shorter the fight the less useful the -res. It's why they don't help much against normal mobs since they die in a few hits. Might as well get a damage proc instead of trying to improve the damage of the next hit.

 

But does it really really matter? Will it really really influence things either way? Naaah, slot as desired.

[Pzn]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

Now on a pylon it's godly since it does not resist -res effects and is +0. 5-8% for two -res procs? Nope. 25%! No wonder people love those procs when they test on a pylon and the pylon is the one perfect enemy for that.

It's the same against AVs.  You will get a literal 20% increase in killspeed vs an even level AV if you maintain 100% uptime on one of the -res procs.   Against higher level foes the purple patch will reduce the effectiveness of -res, but that goes for every other type of debuff as well.  If you're fighting a 54 AV while alpha shifted you'll still see nearly a 10% increase in kill speed with 100% uptime. 

 

Even if the AV has resistance to resist your debuff you'll still see the same comparative increase in kill speed due to the way they interact.

[Sovera]

6 minutes ago, Pzn said:

It's the same against AVs.  You will get a literal 20% increase in killspeed vs an even level AV if you maintain 100% uptime on one of the -res procs.   Against higher level foes the purple patch will reduce the effectiveness of -res, but that goes for every other type of debuff as well.  If you're fighting a 54 AV while alpha shifted you'll still see nearly a 10% increase in kill speed with 100% uptime. 

 

Even if the AV has resistance to resist your debuff you'll still see the same comparative increase in kill speed due to the way they interact.

 

I can't disagree. With two -res slotted in against +4 downshifted-to+3 AVs (multiple tests to take on account whiffing) the -res VS damage procs won by 5-8% (five minutes hitting the AV, see it's HP. Five minutes hitting with damage procs instead, see it's HP. Percentage the difference in HP from one test to the other).

 

This is no doubt due to PPM and whiffs with the attacks that carried the -res procs and why it wasn't a clean 20% improvement (10% + 10% due to being two -res procs). Or 25% instead of 40% versus a pylon.

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Sovera

[Yomo Kimyata]

43 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

Yes use it.  It's equal to or better than a damage proc as @Sovera just illustrated as it allowed them to clear a map unnoticeably any different and maybe even marginally faster than having a damage proc slotted.  Now team with 8 people and the -res you give to the team amplifies how much better these are than just another damage proc.  

 

I have this in my long recharging pbaoe Dark Consumption so that's almost sure fire plus I also have Achilles set to almost sure fire as well in Weaken Resolve.  That's 47% -resistance I'm providing to myself and the team in spurts and this isn't even on a support character.  Sure it scales by the levels of the AV but you're still getting about 2/3 of that -resistance on target.  

 

I'd like to emphasize this.  If it is in a power where you have control over when it goes off (at or near max chances) then it essentially serves as a Build Up without the accuracy.  In DNA Siphon, for example, it's  up every 30-40 seconds for me.

[TheZag]

Sounds like a good fit for a poison corruptor or defender against high hp targets since they have alot of -res going on already.

[tidge]

I'm on the fence about this piece. I almost always use it while leveling, but it is rare that it makes it into my final build.

• I don't always have a power which will take it, such that the power offers a reliable %proc rate while also being a regular part of my attack chain
• I do a lot of solo play, so the 10 seconds often feels like not enough time to capitalize on the (resisted) resistance debuff

I can totally see the utility in team play, especially if it is a reliable %proc power. DNA Siphon is a good call: as a secondary it is available for a lot of lower level content, it can easily be available to fire every 30-40 seconds with a 90% proc ceiling, it's not a "regular" attack, and that is a power that you will be likely using against (very) hard targets anyway.

 

Personally: I still don't have the piece slotted in my Spines/Bio Stalker's DNA Siphon. I prefer to see the damage NAO, and removing one of the other %damage pieces would cost me ~25% of the damage output from it. I suppose I could sacrifice a Touch of the Nictus set bonus (along with actual power enhancements) but I like the 9% global accuracy bonus. I may start carrying one around to swap in when I join PUGs.

 

Level 28: DNA Siphon

• (A) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
  
• (39) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Healing: Level 50
• (40) Touch of the Nictus - Chance for Negative Energy Damage: Level 50
• (40) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage: Level 30
• (40) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage: Level 50
• (42) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 50

 

 

[Pzn]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

 

I can't disagree. With two -res slotted in against +4 downshifted-to+3 AVs (multiple tests to take on account whiffing) the -res VS damage procs won by 5-8% (five minutes hitting the AV, see it's HP. Five minutes hitting with damage procs instead, see it's HP. Percentage the difference in HP from one test to the other).

 

This is no doubt due to PPM and whiffs with the attacks that carried the -res procs and why it wasn't a clean 20% improvement (10% + 10% due to being two -res procs). Or 25% instead of 40% versus a pylon.

 

I see what you're saying.  I missed that the % was comparative to damage procs.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Pzn

[Shred Monkey]

If you find yourself wanting AV/EB/Boss fights to go faster, then -res will help.  If you never find yourself in that situation because you're steamrolling, or just not playing that content much, then you probably won't notice much value in this proc.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Shred Monkey

[arcane]

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

Yes. As @Mezmera pointed above. But with an if. The downside is if others have the proc slotted as well. Since it does not stack it makes the slot 'wasted' (better upkeep I suppose), and since the proc is so popular due to how it behaves with pylon tests that might happen on a regular basis. . I just want to put things in perspective: most AV fights happen under one minute at most and maybe less if Lores are used. My tests were 5 minutes long. The shorter the fight the less useful the -res. It's why they don't help much against normal mobs since they die in a few hits. Might as well get a damage proc instead of trying to improve the damage of the next hit.

 

But does it really really matter? Will it really really influence things either way? Naaah, slot as desired.

Fair point. I don’t pug a lot anymore so solid chance others are using it. Having it slotted makes me feel good though!

[tidge]

3 minutes ago, arcane said:

 Having it slotted makes me feel good though!

 

I'm now picturing toons strutting around causing Lenny Busker levels of -Res.

 

 

[wjrasmussen]

6 hours ago, Mezmera said:

Yes use it.  It's equal to or better than a damage proc as @Sovera just illustrated as it allowed them to clear a map unnoticeably any different and maybe even marginally faster than having a damage proc slotted.  Now team with 8 people and the -res you give to the team amplifies how much better these are than just another damage proc.  

 

I have this in my long recharging pbaoe Dark Consumption so that's almost sure fire plus I also have Achilles set to almost sure fire as well in Weaken Resolve.  That's 47% -resistance I'm providing to myself and the team in spurts and this isn't even on a support character.  Sure it scales by the levels of the AV but you're still getting about 2/3 of that -resistance on target.  

THis is something I was thinking about.  Thanks!

[wjrasmussen]

8 hours ago, Snarky said:

devils advocate  3 pts of KB prot is meh.  4 is good, 3 just aint.  -res is great.  if you use a commonly resisted damage type.  or fight AVs a lot.  otherwise....  the slot might be better used chasing 'real' set bonuses.

Thanks, I knew you would have good advice!

[wjrasmussen]

4 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

If you find yourself wanting AV/EB/Boss fights to go faster, then -res will help.  If you never find yourself in that situation because you're steamrolling, or just not playing that content much, then you probably won't notice much value in this proc.

Thanks,

I have to admit here, I like street fighting bosses a bit above my level.

[wjrasmussen]

6 hours ago, TheZag said:

Sounds like a good fit for a poison corruptor or defender against high hp targets since they have alot of -res going on already.

I like the sound of that.

[DreadShinobi]

9 hours ago, Snarky said:

devils advocate  3 pts of KB prot is meh.  4 is good, 3 just aint.  -res is great.  if you use a commonly resisted damage type.  or fight AVs a lot.  otherwise....  the slot might be better used chasing 'real' set bonuses.

Please list the actual critter attacks that fall between mag 3 and mag 4 knockback protection.

 

Now granted I don't actually use any characters with mag 3 kb protection iirc unless that bonus is coming from 3pc gladiators armor, because I do not find slotting 3pc fury of the gladiator to be worthwhile in a pbaoe attack compared to other available options, but I think you will find the difference between mag 3 and mag 4 kb protection to be virtually non existent if blessing of the zephyr, karma, or steadfast do not fit as comfortably in your build. Just as there is almost no difference in actual gameplay between mag 8 and mag 12 kb protection, which I know for a fact there is no value in slotting mag 8 kb protection. Mag 12 kb prot can find several uses such as Rikti pylons and those clockwork bosses in incarnate content.

[wjrasmussen]

10 hours ago, tidge said:

I'm on the fence about this piece. I almost always use it while leveling, but it is rare that it makes it into my final build.

• I don't always have a power which will take it, such that the power offers a reliable %proc rate while also being a regular part of my attack chain
• I do a lot of solo play, so the 10 seconds often feels like not enough time to capitalize on the (resisted) resistance debuff

I can totally see the utility in team play, especially if it is a reliable %proc power. DNA Siphon is a good call: as a secondary it is available for a lot of lower level content, it can easily be available to fire every 30-40 seconds with a 90% proc ceiling, it's not a "regular" attack, and that is a power that you will be likely using against (very) hard targets anyway.

 

Personally: I still don't have the piece slotted in my Spines/Bio Stalker's DNA Siphon. I prefer to see the damage NAO, and removing one of the other %damage pieces would cost me ~25% of the damage output from it. I suppose I could sacrifice a Touch of the Nictus set bonus (along with actual power enhancements) but I like the 9% global accuracy bonus. I may start carrying one around to swap in when I join PUGs.

 

Level 28: DNA Siphon

• (A) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
• (39) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Healing: Level 50
• (40) Touch of the Nictus - Chance for Negative Energy Damage: Level 50
• (40) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage: Level 30
• (40) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage: Level 50
• (42) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 50

 

 

 

I am using it for leveling on a level 20 character.

[Sovera]

8 hours ago, wjrasmussen said:

I am using it for leveling on a level 20 character.

 

Unironically while leveling is probably the best use for it. +0 or +1 get the near full brunt of it.

 

There have been the pros and the cons discussed in this thread. I prefer doing the damage now instead of relying on my next hit though as the map clearing testing showed it made no difference. That's also due to the last hit scenario. 

 

If a mob has 100 HP and we need to hit twice for 50 to kill it, then it makes no difference if a damage proc hit for 20, we still need to hit it a second time. This is less noticeable with mobs that have more HP where the added 20 might shave one less hit. But since a spawn is composed of 50% minions we rely on big HP bags to really show results.

 

That's why we do certain improvements like -res procs or proc monsters, and then we test and see 30 second improvements and call it pretty good, but it took 2-3 minutes of hitting something to shave those 30 seconds off.

 

 

Big damage characters like Blasters, Scrappers and Brutes don't notice procs as much because of the last hit scenario. When they kill something in 1-2 hits procs don't add much. Lower damage ATs like Controllers and Defenders love procs since they might need 3-4 hits to kill something and that gives time for one or two procs to activate and maybe shave a hit. They notice only having to hit something 2-3 times.

 

This is not backed by math but it's an observation on how I see the game after playing it for a few years now.