Regen Tanker

[Troo]

22 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Ok, @Troo it's been three hours... did ya at least go try it out? 🙂

 

Update: I have run a number of 4x8s missions on Brainstorm working my way up to an ITF. Y'all had me nervous and I started on 2x8 but it was a bit comical.

 

No inspirations needed and avoiding using Instant Healing except in very rare 'oh sh*t' moments.

 

Using Stone Melee and the knockdowns help but aren't required to stay upright.

 

The build (accolades, no incarnates) is not super dialed in, but cycles Heavy Mallet, Gloom, Seismic Smash with a bit of a gap every other cycle to sprinkle in Tremor.

It just works its way through mobs.

Found myself pausing in front of 3 Hercules & 2 Zeus Titans. Their -regen was there, but just not enough to cause a crash in regen. I was comfortable enough to try different toggle combinations. (2 Sappers though, different story).

[Haijinx]

Nerf Regen Tanks!

[Bill Z Bubba]

9 minutes ago, Troo said:

The build (accolades, no incarnates) is not super dialed in

 

For the ITF run, incarnates are absolutely allowed. Some folks also use amplifiers, but the one I'm thinking of also runs enemies buffed and player debuffed. Cuz he's nuts.

[Troo]

On 1/14/2022 at 4:25 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

For the ITF run, incarnates are absolutely allowed. Some folks also use amplifiers, but the one I'm thinking of also runs enemies buffed and player debuffed. Cuz he's nuts.

 

Yeah I was too lazy to put that much effort in. I just threw a build together and started smashing stuff.

 

4x8 ITF update:

It feels like cheating.

I am simply cycling Rune of Protection, Instant Healing, Demonic Aura, & MoG. Heavy hitters get Darkest Night. Every once in a while popping Dull Pain if I get to 1/2 health.

(side note: Seismic Smash is so awesome)

Regen with any decent def or resist numbers feels like a resistance set. Gotta keep an eye on the green bar and its definitely manageable.

(note: the nictus + ambush = run when I forgot it was coming)

-recharge is definitely Regens weakness and the Black Dwarfs apply it pretty quick. Just the Nictus spawns are okay, but throw heavy hitters on top and better be ready.

 

A regen tanker as is would be pretty bad ass.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Troo

[Bill Z Bubba]

47 minutes ago, Troo said:

Yeah I was too lazy to put that much effort in. I just threw a build together and started smashing stuff.

 

Sweet! How was that last Rom fight? Same thing? Cycle through the 4 buffs and no issue?

 

Conversely, my lvl 18 fire/regen brute is getting beat up by +1/x3 council due to the lack of any of that.

[Troo]

A guess (haven't tried fm/rg): Fire could be one of the most challenging pairings to level up for Regen as it has no secondary mitigation effect other than "you 0n fir3 n0w skullz, buuuuurrrrn".

 

My opinion

Early brooting on a regen is likely a lot of Reconstruction and trying to get Dull Pain up at least half the time.

That early experience does show players how to time things for most benefit. DP at 100% green bar could be a waste where between 60%-90% could get more benefit.

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Troo

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 hours ago, Troo said:

A guess (haven't tried fm/rg): Fire could be one of the most challenging pairings to level up for Regen as it has no secondary mitigation effect other than "you 0n fir3 n0w skullz, buuuuurrrrn".

 

My opinion

Early brooting on a regen is likely a lot of Reconstruction and trying to get Dull Pain up at least half the time.

That early experience does show players how to time things for most benefit. DP at 100% green bar could be a waste where between 60%-90% could get more benefit.

 

 

It's the slows. Having to constantly run away due to having absolutely nothing to click because of stacked slows is no way to brute. Or scrap. EDIT: Again, something SR/Shield has spoiled me on. Debuffs don't matter when they never hit you.

 

My thoughts so far on what you've described of your ITF experience:

Sounds like a whole lot of clicking to stay upright which, as you've mentioned, is detrimental to killing stuff in a manner I've grown accustomed. I don't say this to take away from what you've done. Even managing the first mission at max diff without a faceplant is more than I expected from regen but that was my own fault for not considering what could be used to help it out.

 

But it also points to what I was stating up thread. With my claws/sr brute, I can set PB on auto, herd up an aggro cap's worth of Cimerorans and go AFK for a smoke. I'll still be standing when I return. And it's not just the lack of clicking, he's doing that without Rune or Demonic or Barrier or anything else; just SR, Tough, Weave and CJ. But it's also an unfair comparison in that SR's capped DDR makes it particularly more suited to fighting them than just about any other armor out there with Shield being just about equal in mitigation and even better when you're NOT AFK thanks to the +damage from AAO.

 

I have found that I have been VERY guilty of not defining well what I mean when I say something sucks in this game or is the worst at X. I only mean numerically. I'm again having fun with a Peacebringer by forcing myself to solo her and go tri-form. But I do this knowing that no matter how fun she is, and how much time and inf I spend on her final build, she's never gonna amount to much in relation to how I play the game and judge builds/powersets. Same goes for how I look at regen.

 

Regardless, until this thread, I had completely forgotten that MoG was no longer the Please Kill Me Now button that it was in the past. So thanks for that.

 

I am still curious as to how you'll fair against all the AVs in the ITF (or any other +4 AVs for that matter) and what your total time ends up being. But it's purely a curiosity thing. Thanks also for being willing to give it a try.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Troo]

I'll recap a bit more later in the week on the ITFs.

Really at some level, it's more about knowing when & where to do what. Sprinkle in AT/Power Set specific means of going about it.

 

Time: Slow but getting less slow (trying to get a feel of what it should be)

 

Clicks: It's not as many clicks as I expected but definitely would interrupt tuned attack chains every so often. (60s being pretty common)

 

DDR: I would not argue with some SR defense debuff resist level equivalent for Regeneration's recharge debuff resistance.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Troo

[Bill Z Bubba]

10 minutes ago, Troo said:

DDR: I would not argue with some SR defense debuff resist level equivalent for Regeneration's recharge debuff resistance.

 

I've always agreed with this. Makes absolutely no sense at all for Regen not to have massive regen/recharge debuff resistance.

[Troo]

Did some testing, still think Regeneration as is would be good on a Tank.

 

Stone Melee/Regeneration Brute (good but not non-dialed in build, no incarnates, boosts or inspirations)

Trap Door Runs: Averaged 15-18 minutes. (Lots of misses.. so many)

 

No real danger. Didn't feel like the knifes edge found in some other content. This might be different if a player doesn't prioritize Tarantulas, Mu, & Widows, (-recharge can add up fast.)

 

Typical run used Instant Healing once and Dull pain as needed (rather than perma). MoG gets used when green bar melts to quick or needed the +Recovery.

 

 

While I did +5 any common IOs and used HOs at 53 the build could use more accuracy. Other improvements could help speed up the run. It was the misses more than needing to click a heal that slowed things down.

 

Brute - Stone Melee - Regeneration.mxd

 

Does Regeneration survive in this environment? Oh yeah, but it is active. Just standing there like some other powersets is not possible.

[Saikochoro]

On 1/13/2022 at 10:22 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

Some folks say that EA didn't get ported over cuz it would just be too good at tank values. I don't personally see that based on the numbers nor on playing both SR and EA.

 

Perhaps the same thought is behind no regen for tanks. It would just be too damn good at tank values.

 

Heh.

HEEHEE.

HAHAHAHHAHEHHEAHEEHJHAHEHAHEHEHEAH

Agreed. I honestly don’t get the argument that EA is to good on tankers or that Regen would be. 
 

Tanker armors are insanely over the top anyway when we have the likes of shield and SR. Not to mention the plethora of other armors that achieve stupid levels of survivability. 
 

EA and Regen both need to be ported over without any nerfs. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Saikochoro

[Saikochoro]

On 1/13/2022 at 10:37 AM, PeregrineFalcon said:

Would Regen really be that great on a tank though?

 

On its own the regen would be great, given tank values, but would that be enough to overcome the fact that it has no defense and no DDR?

 

Sure you could give it some defense with Combat Jumping and Weave and IOs, but without any DDR would that be enough to really matter once the defense debuffs start rolling in from everyone with a machine gun?

 

I ask because I have no real experience with regen. I rolled a BS/Regen Scrapper once, got him up to maybe level 20, hated it and promptly rerolled him as BS/Willpower once Willpower went to the live server. Ever since then Willpower has been my default secondary for a scrapper unless I have something specific in mind.

I honestly don’t focus on defense on my Regen characters. Doubly so because of no defense debuff resistance. Instead I focus on adding resists to supplement the Regen. I end up getting a fair amount of melee or s/l defense as a by product, but I focus on adding resists as opposed to defense on Regen.

 

In fact, if I could have any change to buff Regen it would be to add scaling resists similar to SR. That would be amazing. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Saikochoro

[arcane]

I’d play a Regen Tank in a heartbeat. The debbie downer attitudes on the forum are not representative of my actual experience 🙂 Those pointing out common sense tweaks are justified, but those acting like the set is just downright too bad to play... well, that’s their problem that I don’t share.

 

That said, the proposed debuff resistances (-regen/-rech resists) sound like no brainers to me. A full rework that changes any of powers fundamentally though? No thanks.

 

Also, lack of DDR is just not a good enough criticism. Dark Armor has no DDR either, nor does Electric Armor. You deal with it anyway if you know how. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by arcane

[Bill Z Bubba]

My new fire/regen brute hit 21. Gotta say, with SOs and at this level, it is by far the weakest armor. Which I expect it to be all the way up. Resilience is a notable help once you have it. It'll be 6 slotted shortly with steadfast +def, glad armor +def and 4 unbreakable guard. DDR or not, at least the enemy alpha strike will have less of a chance to land.

 

Does this mean it can't be played? Obviously not. Something can be the worst and still playable after all.

[Marshal_General]

I think the easiest fix is to add absorb since IOs are already heal/absorb.

You can think of it as your regen is so high at the start of a fight that it takes some time to overcome it in order to start whittling your health down.

[Erratic1]

2 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

I think the easiest fix is to add absorb since IOs are already heal/absorb.

You can think of it as your regen is so high at the start of a fight that it takes some time to overcome it in order to start whittling your health down.

 

And you can always rename yourself Pie Shell.

[Pep Rally]

I'd love to get Regen, Ninjitsu, and Energy Aura ported over to Tanks. I took a MA/Regen Brute(ewww) to 50, and it definitely takes some getting used to with all the clicks, and having to either click before you know you are going to take lots of damage, or be very quick on the healing draw.

Attack sets with long animation times will get you killed very often. Looking at you Eagle's Claw. (Also disappointed in lack of another AoE attack in MA)

 

Have you guys looked at the changes they made to Regen for Sentinels?  I kinda like how they made Dull Pain a +HP passive(Dismiss Pain), and changed Revive into a combo Dull Pain/Revive power(Second Wind).

 

I'm not sure how I feel about Instant Healing vs Instant Regeneration.  IH would probably be more powerful, but only up half the time, but IR is a toggle Absorb which would let you brush off some of the damage all of the time, allow you to go over the HP cap, and reduce the number of click powers.

 

I wish there was a melee version of the Sentinel Regen to test. I think I would prefer to port the Sentinel version. Thoughts?

 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Pep Rally

[ironjoe]

So thinking on it I would just modify the Sentinel version of Regen with a few tweaks. Below is the Sentinel version but I added in taunt to Integration. Beyond the Homecoming tweaks I would say increasing the regen debuff resistance and adding endurance debuff resistance seem sensible.

 

1	Fast Healing	Auto: Self +Regeneration
1	Reconstruction	Self Heal, Res(Toxic)
2	Quick Recovery	Auto: Self +Recovery
6	Instant Regeneration	Toggle: Self +Absorption
8	Dismiss Pain	Auto: Self +Max HP
12	Integration	Toggle: Self +Res(Knockback, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immobilize), +Regeneration, Taunt
18	Resilience	Auto: Self +Res(Disorient, All DMG)
26	Second Wind	Self +Max HP, Rez(Special)
32	Moment of Glory	Self +Res(All DMG but Psionics, Knock Back, Repel, Stun, Hold, Sleep, Immobilize), +DEF(All DMG but Psionics), +Recovery

 

[Brutal Justice]

On 1/25/2022 at 6:21 PM, Troo said:

 

Stone Melee/Regeneration Brute (good but not non-dialed in build, no incarnates, boosts or inspirations)

Trap Door Runs: Averaged 15-18 minutes. (Lots of misses.. so many)

 

No real danger. Didn't feel like the knifes edge found in some other content. This might be different if a player doesn't prioritize Tarantulas, Mu, & Widows, (-recharge can add up fast.)

Just some notes I have after running my stj/regen through trapdoor.  

 

I’ve been running several different toons through this lately and my target priorities are different for the regen brute.  My main target in each group is the vampires.  Like you noted, so many misses!   So I drop them first while build up is still running.  Helped a lot with the speed.  Widows also with their smoke grenades.  I do pop a yellow for the blindness though so they are less noticeable.  

 

Second targets had to be the Mu.  With no end/recovery debuff resistance they would slowly sap me if they were left standing long enough.  

 

There’s no risk of defeat but the lack of any debuff resistance is real.  

 

With only tier 3 passive incarnates used I averaged 11-12 minutes.  With spinning strike as my only aoe I’m not winning any races but the regen side has no issues.  

[Marshal_General]

I think I might look for a good sentinel attack set with good aoes and go melee pool attacks to see how sent regen is.

[Bill Z Bubba]

On 2/3/2022 at 12:40 PM, Marshal_General said:

I think I might look for a good sentinel attack set with good aoes and go melee pool attacks to see how sent regen is.

 

I went melee with a dark/sr sent. In the end, the fighting pool attacks and even Air Sup make no sense damage-wise when I can still fight in melee with the blasts and be more effective.

 

I really wanted to go Midnight Grasp/Darkest Night but since whoever put together the EPP for Sents was obviously smoking crack at the time and gave MG a 34 second base recharge, so it sadly also makes no sense to go with anything but Mind Probe. Which blows because Summon Mistress would have also been pretty cool for the concept.

 

I truly hope the devs completely rework Sent EPPs when they rework the AT.

[PyroBeetle]

On 2/6/2022 at 11:07 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

so it sadly also makes no sense to go with anything but Mind Probe.

This is the largest failing with Sentinels...the lack of build variation because one EPP choice makes the AT almost viable and none of the others do. I have multiple Sents at 50, and ultimately the only ones that feel right are ones that leverage Mind Probe in their attack chain.

 

To the point that is being made regarding Regen. Sentinel Regen should be ported over to other ATs, the HC team got so much right with it. Other ATs should keep the original Dull Pain though, even if it is another click.

Regen would not be broken on tanks, you would have to leverage winter sets for slow mitigation, which would reduce recharge opportunities. Also being hit by every other nasty debuff that is thrown around by some groups, it just would not stack up against the top performers without significant buffs, which would kinda defeat the point of having nerfed it into the ground.

[ironjoe]

So I'm thinking something like:

Fast Healing increase from +25.95% to 69.2% Resistance (Regeneration)

Quick Recovery add +69.2% Resistance (Endurance, Recovery)

 

1	Fast Healing	Auto: Self +Regeneration
1	Reconstruction	Self Heal, Res(Toxic)
2	Quick Recovery	Auto: Self +Recovery
6	Instant Regeneration	Toggle: Self +Absorption
8	Dull Pain	Self +Max HP
12	Integration	Toggle: Self +Res(Knockback, Disorient, Hold, Sleep, Immobilize), +Regeneration, Taunt
18	Resilience	Auto: Self +Res(Disorient, All DMG)
26	Second Wind	Self +Max HP, Rez(Special)
32	Moment of Glory	Self +Res(All DMG but Psionics, Knock Back, Repel, Stun, Hold, Sleep, Immobilize), +DEF(All DMG but Psionics), +Recovery

[Marshal_General]

Regen needs to be to -regen what SR is to -def.

[smnolimits41]

hmmm.. i love regen.  Two of my favourite characters from Naruto Shippuden are Lady Tsunade and Sakura.  I just wish the damage was higher :).  Hmm.. i think i'll go make another ninja toon with regen 🙂