Will Regen ever be reworked?

[Bill Z Bubba]

10 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Nobody has done it with SO's only to the best of my knowledge.

 

I wouldn't even try. Full disclosure time: Most of my characters can't do it at all or would be so slow getting it done I wouldn't want to bother. And I've happily spent hours wailing upon AVs.

 

But I have seen others pull it off with armors I fail with. And with combos/ATs that I wouldn't dream of attempting it with. As mentioned earlier, where there's a will, there's usually a way.

[Troo]

2 hours ago, Solarverse said:

 

Nobody has done it with SO's only to the best of my knowledge.

 

Werner Rules on SOs.. shit no!

[ForeverLaxx]

It's probably important to keep in mind, too, that Regen benefits much more from Attack Set CC than some other armor sets would. Any time a mob is stuck flopping on the ground or walking in circles is time spent regenerating. Other armor sets benefit from this, too, but generally to a much reduced degree. Since Regen is built around taking the full hit (barring Resilience) and healing the damage afterwards, not taking hits gives you time to actually heal the damage you did take, making CC more impactful for survival and causing certain Primaries to be much better when paired with Regen than others.

 

Now I'm not saying that if you had taken some AoE crowd control on your Regen that he totally would have made it through, but it certainly would have made things easier. Of course, that sort of dichotomy might be hiding how bad things really are for Regen since performance can vary so wildly with the set as it is. That said, I think Regen is still strong in PvP, for whatever that's worth. It's a different animal out there but I'm sure any changes to the set that hurts its PvP performance might make a few people upset.

[Troo]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:56 PM, arcane said:

Here is my build. You can absolutely get more defense if you want. Not sure how much that will do against the Romans, but it's just not my thing. I prefer insps, probably teammates, and therefore probably building for offense or, ideally, procs. 

9 hours ago, arcane said:

@TrooBurnout is pretty meh but synergizes better with Regen than almost anything else. It’s essentially a get-out-of-jail-free card because the only thing that kills you is something that out-DPS’s you with all 4 clicks still on recharge. Burnout gives you a freebie reset of that cycle of click powers if you’re under too much pressure.

 

Here's what I was using. Kind of a lazy build to test survive-ability (I should squeeze more damage in)

 

 

with Dull Pain

with Instant Healing

 

[Solarverse]

56 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

Here's what I was using. Kind of a lazy build to test survive-ability (I should squeeze more damage in)

 

 

with Dull Pain

with Instant Healing

 

 

Stone Regen, that makes a lot of sense.

[arcane]

Some things about Troo’s build are driving me crazy, but clearly my faceplanting S/T DPS / +recharge build has no room to be critical.

 

I’m curious enough to see how some of my other characters would do here that I might try them.

 

But my most represented melee AT is Tankers (because I can both build offensively AND feel more invincible at once), not sure I wanna bother with those. Doesn’t seem worthwhile to compare a tank to a regen brute.

 

I happen to have a fresh billion on hand.. might refresh my build on one of these outdated characters: Stone/Energy Brute, WM/WP Brute, Psi/Rad Brute, or TW/Ice Scrapper.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by arcane

[A Cat]

I tried it on my Elec/Elec brute just now. It is pretty damn hard, lol, ngl. I can't stand and fight or their defense gets too high to hit. It is theoretically possible to go through though I still died on occasion (player skill problem? TBF I have not played this character in a long while). 

[Solarverse]

20 hours ago, arcane said:

I happen to have a fresh billion on hand.. might refresh my build on one of these outdated characters: Stone/Energy Brute, WM/WP Brute, Psi/Rad Brute, or TW/Ice Scrapper.

 

 

My EM/WP Tank did not fair so well. He did "okay" but the -defense always ended up getting the better of me in the end. I could stand for a while, but once those stacks of -defense started adding up, it was over. Hope you have better luck with yours than I did mine.

[Marshal_General]

I think the biggest hangup people are having is over the word, mitigation.

 

To me, mitigation prevents or lessens incoming damage.

Defense prevents damage from happening.

Resistance reduces what damage you take.

Slows and -recharge reduces the frequency of incoming damage.

Absorb shields you from damage.

This is mitigation.

 

Heals and regen do not mitigate damage. They react to it.

Now it becomes a matter of whether you can react to it in time and/or recover from it.

If Regen cannot, then there is a problem.

 

For regen to work yiu need a really high regen rate.

For that to work, you need to be a big sack of hit points.

When that doesn't work, you need to be quick with the heals abd hope its enough.

For that to work, you need a crap ton of recharge so that you will have a heal ready.

For that to work, you need a crap ton of -recharge resistance so you recharge doesn't get floored.

 

It seems to me a lot if things that have to be carefully planned for and go right just to get Regen to work as well as other armor sets.

[A Cat]

Tried again on my EM/Bio Scrapper. Got up to the Nictus ambush, but their numbers are just overwhelming. The "Buffed Enemies" challenge mode makes it quite hard. Does anyone know what the exact effects are? 

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 hours ago, A Cat said:

Tried again on my EM/Bio Scrapper. Got up to the Nictus ambush, but their numbers are just overwhelming. The "Buffed Enemies" challenge mode makes it quite hard. Does anyone know what the exact effects are? 

 

Pretty sure the stats for buffed enemies and player debuffed were listed by someone in the Tank Gods thread. You can skip the seafood buffet at the end of mission 1. When you exit the door after setting free the ladies, fly straight up and pull the minotaur to the center. Never cross the threshold back to the stairs/courtyard, and the khels won't spawn.

[Marshal_General]

I think how great regen seems to be is colored by the perception of what you paired it with. I have a thread on the brute forum where I am testing an ice/regen doing +4/8 radio missions on the test server against Council, CoT and CoS and never died and never had to use MoG or IH. I rarely had to use Reconstruction except when the CoT debuffed my regen into the red.

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 minutes ago, Marshal_General said:

I think how great regen seems to be is colored by the perception of what you paired it with. I have a thread on the brute forum where I am testing an ice/regen doing +4/8 radio missions on the test server against Council, CoT and CoS and never died and never had to use MoG or IH. I rarely had to use Reconstruction except when the CoT debuffed my regen into the red.

 

Any mitigation from an attack set will benefit any other armor just as well as it benefits regen but I agree that perceptions can be colored when leaning on such mitigation. That's why I'm testing with a fire/regen brute and SOs. I'll be giving up on the SO side of things very shortly since I'll need every possible edge to make up for all of regen's weaknesses.

[Troo]

2 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

I think how great regen seems to be is colored by the perception of what you paired it with.

 

This is pretty spot on.

 

 

[Naraka]

2 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

I think how great regen seems to be is colored by the perception of what you paired it with. I have a thread on the brute forum where I am testing an ice/regen doing +4/8 radio missions on the test server against Council, CoT and CoS and never died and never had to use MoG or IH. I rarely had to use Reconstruction except when the CoT debuffed my regen into the red.

That type of perception isn't limited to just Regen tho.

[arcane]

4 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Any mitigation from an attack set will benefit any other armor just as well as it benefits regen but I agree that perceptions can be colored when leaning on such mitigation. That's why I'm testing with a fire/regen brute and SOs. I'll be giving up on the SO side of things very shortly since I'll need every possible edge to make up for all of regen's weaknesses.

You should really re-roll as Kinetic/Regen. Not getting your full gimp experience IMO. Fire Melee sounds positively meta by comparison.

Edited February 5, 2022 by arcane

[Bill Z Bubba]

11 minutes ago, arcane said:

You should really re-roll as Kinetic/Regen. Not getting your full gimp experience IMO. Fire Melee sounds positively meta by comparison.

 

No way, man! Kin's secondary effect is damage debuff! That's far too much mitigation. 🙂

[Troo]

3 hours ago, Naraka said:

That type of perception isn't limited to just Regen tho.

 

Absolutely. There are primaries and secondaries that have great synergy and some pairings which can be awful especially if folks don't like an aspect of a powerset.

 

Example: I don't like combo mechanics. I'd love to play some of the powersets themes we have, but I'd rather claw my eyes out than level a combo heavy one to 50.

 

[PLVRIZR]

On 2/4/2022 at 11:14 PM, A Cat said:

Tried again on my EM/Bio Scrapper. Got up to the Nictus ambush, but their numbers are just overwhelming.

 

The Bright Novas are defense debuffers.  Bio has no DDR, right?...

[A Cat]

2 hours ago, PLVRIZR said:

 

The Bright Novas are defense debuffers.  Bio has no DDR, right?...

Didn't know that. I don't know my seafood well. Yeah, Bio has no DDR. This TF is suffering from that perspective, as all the melee attacks from the Cimms are also defense debuffs. I'm pretty sure my defense was in the red the entire time. I already have pretty sad S/L defense on this character for the sake of slotting for damage. My strategy is to run in and out kiting with heavy hitting attacks to whittle down mobs while my absorb is still active. I can't hit anyone really when they clump up so I pick around the edges after stringing out the mobs. I target surgeons first, then whoever is convenient. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, PLVRIZR said:

The Bright Novas are defense debuffers.  Bio has no DDR, right?...

 

19 minutes ago, A Cat said:

I don't know my seafood well.

 

And the dark novae (maybe the crabs, too) are heavy on slows so if you rely on clicks for mitigation, it can get nasty.

[Galaxy Brain]

On 2/5/2022 at 9:28 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Any mitigation from an attack set will benefit any other armor just as well as it benefits regen but I agree that perceptions can be colored when leaning on such mitigation. That's why I'm testing with a fire/regen brute and SOs. I'll be giving up on the SO side of things very shortly since I'll need every possible edge to make up for all of regen's weaknesses.

 

Coming in late to the party, but fire melee would be the way to go here.

 

As noted, primaries offer mitigation which can really skew data on survival depending on the set. Something like an AoE with a 75% knockdown chance can make or break a run all just on RNG! If we wanna compare just the armor, we should be playing with fire.

[Milk Sheik]

Hi. Long-time MA/regen scrapper player here, vet level around 24 (i.e. enough to be tricked out but not overly so) and have a fair stack of IOs but I don't use Mids. I'm pretty squishy -- have to burn MoG and IH (and some insps if I recall) to take a bunch of 53 Cim soldiers (minions and lieus mostly) at the top of the gates in Cimerora, and soloing the 54 cyclops/minotaur bosses in the zone are similarly reliant on every power I've got. MA's knockdowns mitigate regular mobs a bit, but of course the cyclopes and minos pop Unyielding or something similar and are unfazed by it or the stuns in the set. My WP stalker outshines this guy immensely -- she's got twice the S/L resist, a ton more defense, the same reconstruction "oh crap" button, and her basically-crashless tier 9 is so rarely used I often forget it's there. He doesn't have Fighting Pool. Yeah, yeah, I know, heresy, learn to play. But I do feel he should be tougher than he is.

 

Things I'd love to see:

* MoG being extended a little longer. It has an endurance buff that pre-change allowed the regenner to fire and forget for 3 minutes, bringing the end bar all the way up for its duration. Now, lasting only 20 seconds or so, it mitigates an alpha for one mob -- and just one, and may not last long enough even for that. The end buff isn't on long enough to make a real difference. It is now in the position where it *helps* you solo a hard target (here I'm thinking of end-of-mish EBs, not anything pylon-or-AV-worthy) but has to be combined with IH to last long enough to put them down. I'm running Spiritual radial alpha and Hasten (no Ageless) and its recharge is far from perma, so maybe this is a fix that isn't unbalancing. It's weird when Paragon Protectors have minutes of god mode and I get seconds.

* +resist from Reconstruction. We get a little toxic resist, but I don't think anyone's ever slotted it for that when healing sets are available. Maybe it should get love the way Resilience got love -- Resilience used to be S/L/Tox and then became (all). 

* A Very Rare heal enhancement set or an attuned one like the winter sets that can be made Superior. This may be orthogonal to the discussion (obviously the set should work well on an SO build), but all the heal powers in Regen sort of bring the subject up. I've got a lot of Numinas in the vain hope that their 12% regen buff adds up over many powers, but the bulk of the meaningful passive heals attributed to IOs are being done now by me slotting a Panacea and Power Transfers into Quick Recovery & Stamina. Numinas and Preventive Medicines are sort of the go-to sets, but both have uniques which means you're not going to be 6-slotting multiple powers with them... weirdly, I find Doctored Wounds, an uncommon recipe, to be worth slotting even when there are many rare options. Numina's +max hp benefit doesn't matter when I have Dull Pain up, which is almost always, and then I'm capped at 2409 hp just like all scrappers.

 

Thanks for your time.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Milk Sheik

[Brutal Justice]

2 hours ago, Milk Sheik said:

I'm pretty squishy -- have to burn MoG and IH (and some insps if I recall) to take a bunch of 53 Cim soldiers (minions and lieus mostly) at the top of the gates in Cimerora, and soloing the 54 cyclops/minotaur bosses in the zone are similarly reliant on every power I've got.

Honest question.  Do you have to use all your powers on your willpower scrapper, other than your tier 9, to do the same?

[Naraka]

11 minutes ago, Brutal Justice said:

Honest question.  Do you have to use all your powers on your willpower scrapper, other than your tier 9, to do the same?

 

Outside of Resurgence, probably yeah. WP doesn't really have any skippable powers although I'd be curious if anyone skips Fast Healing and just goes with RttC as their bulk of regen...

 

...but then most Regen don't take Revive either so it's still rather even.

 

Personally speaking, I utilize my regen powers on a priority basis, higher priority used first:

1. Reconstruction

2. Dull Pain, Instant Healing

3. Moment of Glory

 

On top of that, I have preventative use of these same powers just like any other set that goes in reverse priority.  Lastly, the name of the game when I play Regen (and a lot of times, any powerset combo) is "What can I do to protect the use of my priority powers?". Inspirations are an obvious and all-encompassing option but mixing things up with CC, strategy pulls, target prioritization, etc is what makes the game fun and not just repeating button mashes on the same enemies in the same maps until I get tired of playing the game (again).