Managing Dark Armor's 3 Debuff Toggles

[Courtney]

The Dark Armor set offers 3 toggles for debuffing:

1. Death Shroud (damage, 0.52 end/sec)
2. Cloak of Fear (fear + toHit, 0.52 end/sec)
3. Oppressive Gloom (stun, 0.08 end/sec + self_damage/hit)

Death Shroud is a no-brainer; if you aren't going to take that, why bother with Dark Armor at all?  I'm curious what other folks do with the other two toggles.  First, they are both of magnitude 2, i.e. low.  I believe this would normally only affect minions.  It is a toggle, though, with debuff pulses that might stack and affect higher level foes.  Does stacking occur, allowing the powers to eventually affect even bosses?

 

I plan to put two end reductions in Cloak of Fear to mitigate the high end cost (the same as I've done with Death Shroud).  Oppressive Gloom, though it could take end reductions, does not need any.  Do players use both of these toggles together, or do they use each individually (assuming they even took both)?  How concerning is the self damage from Oppressive Gloom?

Edited February 19, 2022 by Courtney

[Psyonico]

Cloak of fear also has a major accuracy penalty, it takes a lot to get it to hit consistently.

 

I usually take OG and if I'm tight on slots just single slot an Acc/Mez HO in it and call it a day.  Note that OG and CoF do not stack with themselves, so you'll fear and/or stun minions, but unless you have another power to stack with it, that's all you get.

[Sakai]

I skip Oppressive Gloom always. The last thing I need is my targets wandering off in a drunken stupor.  

[Naraka]

21 minutes ago, Courtney said:

Death Shroud is a no-brainer; if you aren't going to take that, why bother with Dark Armor at all? 

 

Stalker?

 

21 minutes ago, Courtney said:

I'm curious what other folks do with the other two toggles. 

 

Not sure if this changed since the 2 DA characters I have are a Stalker and a Tanker who doesn't use Cloak of Fear, but since Death Shroud does damage to foes, there is a chance that the targets you fear are momentarily freed from the effects, mitigating the mez so they can try and attack you.

 

How I use the toggles:

 

Stalkers don't get Death Shroud, they have hide instead. Being Spines/DA, I don't have anything to stack with either Cloak of Fear or Oppressive Gloom (and their pulses do not stack either). However, I do have the Presence Pool which does allow me to affect Lt and Bosses with fear. Coupled with using Hidden Assassin's Strike on a boss, there's going to be fewer bosses regardless, more foes are going to be feared by Demoralize and the immobilize and slow helps mitigate the fear breaking when I use AoEs.  It's not foolproof or super synergetic, but it is a very high concept build that I played on live as well.

 

On a Tanker, I don't use Cloak of Fear but instead Oppressive Gloom. With his Energy Melee attacks, he has high boss mezzing powers along with the minions being mostly inert.  With the old Stun skill, I could easily juggle 3+ bosses with stuns but it's somewhat less reliable now.

[Major_Decoy]

On my tank, all three taunt, so I took all three.

 

Cloak of Fear is slotted with Cloud Senses (and a +5 boosted Acc/End Nightmare)

Oppressive Gloom is five slotted with Absolute Amazement (with the chance for to-hit debuff)

 

I also went with the immobilize proc interface and the control hybrid that give a chance to stun immobilized and feared enemies.

[Yomo Kimyata]

They are all useful, but better in conjunction with other things that enhance them.

 

Death Shroud is a pretty basic damage aura.  I actually skip it on a lot of builds.

 

Cloak of Fear is great, but it's endurance heavy and accuracy light as previously noted.  The fear effect is generally not a big deal unless you are stacking magnitude with something like Invoke Panic.  But -to hit is always nice.  I generally 4-slot Cloud Senses +5, 1-2 procs if you want them, and look for global accuracy bonuses.

 

Oppressive Gloom is something I always skipped in the past, but now if I have room I'll throw it in.  The stun works wonders on minions, (and should on lieutenants as well, but I never seem to notice that).  There are a few procs that you can pop in other powers that add +change stun, but I rarely see bosses get stunned (which may be observer bias).  I believe the Absolute amazement proc can trigger even if the opponent isn't stunned, but I'd have to parse combat logs and homey don't play that game.

[ForeverLaxx]

I run an Chance for Immob proc on OG and Chance for Knockdown in DS to try and mitigate the "stumbling problem" but it rarely does anything, unfortunately. That said, I also run Stone Melee with the set so I'm stacking stuns constantly. I probably wouldn't take OG at all if I had no other way to stack stuns since it's just Mag2 by itself. I did run into someone trying really hard to sell CoF as a huge boost to your defense (in the form of -ToHit) but the accuracy of the effect is a huge hurdle and only works against things that are surrounding you, and when you're Dark Armor/Stone Melee, the things that surround you are too busy stumbling around to hit back in the first place.

[oedipus_tex]

Something to keep in mind is that powers like OG and Cloak of Fear do more than just protect you, they fall into the realm of control powers similar to what a Controller or Dominator would bring. Whether that's valuable to you probably depends on how you view your role. As a player who primarily plays squishies, I will always appreciate Dark Armor tanks who take Oppressive Gloom and Cloak of Fear, because they protect me. -ToHit applies to the mobs AoE attacks, and Stun/Fear disable attacks that might otherwise come my way. Even a Mag 2 stun will shut down a Malta Sapper, and by stacking stuns you can even take care of annoying bosses like Fake Nemesis before they can jump into their PFF super bubbles.

[Snarky]

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Snarky 5.0: Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(A), TchofDth-Dmg/Rchg(3), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), TchofDth-Dam%(5)
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), GldArm-3defTpProc(9)
Level 2: Death Shroud -- SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprUnrFur-Dmg/Rchg(11), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), SprUnrFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprUnrFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprUnrFur-Rchg/+Regen/+End(15)
Level 4: Murky Cloud -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(17), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 6: Shadow Maul -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(21), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Arm-Acc/Rchg(23), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Arm-Dam%(25)
Level 8: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 10: Obsidian Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(25), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(27), UnbGrd-Max HP%(27)
Level 12: Siphon Life -- SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBrtFur-Dmg/Rchg(29), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), SprBrtFur-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprBrtFur-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprBrtFur-Rech/Fury%(31)
Level 14: Touch of Fear -- CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-%Dam(50)
Level 16: Dark Regeneration -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(33), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(33), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 18: Dark Consumption -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(34), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(34), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 20: Cloak of Darkness -- Ksm-ToHit+(A), Rct-ResDam%(36), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(37)
Level 22: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(37), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(37), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(40)
Level 28: Cloak of Fear -- CldSns-%Dam(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(42)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(42), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Hct-Acc/Rchg(43), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Hct-Dam%(43)
Level 35: Oppressive Gloom -- HO:Endo(A)
Level 38: Soul Tentacles -- Bmbdmt-Dam(A), Bmbdmt-Acc/Rech/End(45), Bmbdmt-Dam/Rech(45), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(45), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech/End(46), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(46)
Level 41: Dark Obliteration -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(46), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(48), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Rgn-Knock%(50)
Level 44: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Soul Transfer -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Fury 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(15), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(17)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 50: Cardiac Radial Boost 
Level 8: Afterburner 
------------

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[GM Impervium]

Hiya, welcome to the forums!

I've moved this thread tot he Archetypes section, as powerset discussions are a bit more on-topic there. Maybe it will get some more traction there, as well!

[oedipus_tex]

I just realized the OG is brand new (congrats on your first post) so wanted to expand a bit on stuff that us old school folks know.

 

 

To start with your questions:

 

Does the Fear or Stun in these powers stack with other sources of Stun and Fear?

Yes, it does stack with other powers. These powers can be your powers, your teammates powers, powers from pets, or any other source. In City of Heroes, Stun and Terrify (along with Hold, Immobilize, Confuse, and a few others) are measured in Magnitudes. Magnitude is always a positive number.

 

Mezz protection is the force you need to overcome to mezz the enemy. Enemies naturally have mezz protection based on their rank. Mezz protection is literally just inverse mezz, written as a negative number (tho in game displays will show it as a positive number, its a negative number under the hood).

• Minions have -1.0 mezz
• Lieutenants have -2,0 mezz
• Bosses have -3.0 mezz

If the total amount of Mezz on a creature is greater than 0 after all sources of mezz and mezz protection are added together, it is mezzed.

 

 

EXAMPLE 1:

In the case of both Stun and Terrify for Dark Armor, both auras are Mag 2.

 

Minions have 1.0 mezz protection. The aura provides +2 mezz. That results in a total mezz of 1 (2 -2 = 1). That result is greater than 0, so they are mezzed without needing any outside help.

 

Lieutenants have -2.0 mezz protection, and the aura provides +2 mezz. That results in a total mezz of 0 (2 -2 = 0). The creature is not mezzed, because the total mezz is not greater than 0 (it is exactly 0). But any amount of additional Stun from any source, no matter how weak. will exceed the protection and Stun the mob.

 

(NOTE: In practice, Magnitude is almost always a whole number. However there are a few powers that are exceptions, like the Sleep in Mind Control, which is Mag 3.5. In general, you can expect most single target powers from most other casters to be Mag 3, and most AoEs to be either Mag 2 or Mag 3. This means if you are paired with any other player who has an AoE Stun or Fear that your auras will stack and mezz bosses and lieutenants.) 

 

 

EXAMPLE 2:

As a Dark Armor character you can select powers that stun, such as powers in Martial Arts or Energy Melee. If a Boss level enemy (native -3.0 Stun) stands within your Oppressive Gloom, initially it will have 2 - 3 = -1 Stun status. -1 is not more than 0, so it is not Stunned. Imagine you then hit the boss with Cobra Strike (which has a chance for Mag 3 Stun). If the Stun triggers, the new total is 2 + 3 - 3 = 2 Stun. The total Stun is greater than 0, so the enemy is stunned.

 

 

Read this only if you feel like you understand the explanation above:

Keep in mind that each individual source of mezz has its own, independent duration. If you hit a boss with a Magnitude 2 Stun from your aura, then roll a Mag 3 Stun with an attack, it will be Stunned, but only for the duration that both Stuns are active and total mezz protection is exceeded. Once either of those Stuns wears off, the enemy will break free and attack. You can avoid this by continuing to stack Stun sources of Stun on the enemy. For melee characters, this means continuing to use powers that keep the enemy in the Stunned state.

 

Takeaway: One of the benefits of a Stun or Fear aura is the duration is more or less "until you walk or run away from the enemy." Most AoE control powers on the other hand have long cooldowns and players tend not to want to "waste" them. Since there's no opportunity cost for these auras they can help you avoid a lot of incidents that can occur when fights are winding down--often one of the most risky parts of the fights for unarmored characters trying to save their payloads for the next spawn.

 

 

How concerning is the self damage from Oppressive Gloom?

On an armored character, the self damage is negligent and can be pretty much ignored. You get a huge self heal anyway. It tends to function more like a small hit to your overall Regen. It certainly won't kill you on its own.   

Edited February 20, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[Yomo Kimyata]

6 hours ago, ForeverLaxx said:

I run an Chance for Immob proc on OG and Chance for Knockdown in DS to try and mitigate the "stumbling problem" but it rarely does anything, unfortunately. That said, I also run Stone Melee with the set so I'm stacking stuns constantly. I probably wouldn't take OG at all if I had no other way to stack stuns since it's just Mag2 by itself. I did run into someone trying really hard to sell CoF as a huge boost to your defense (in the form of -ToHit) but the accuracy of the effect is a huge hurdle and only works against things that are surrounding you, and when you're Dark Armor/Stone Melee, the things that surround you are too busy stumbling around to hit back in the first place.

 

That has got to be a god-awful drain on your blue bar!  Did you level that build or are you fixing endurance with incarnates?

 

[ForeverLaxx]

11 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

That has got to be a god-awful drain on your blue bar!  Did you level that build or are you fixing endurance with incarnates?

 

Still leveling, somewhere in the low 30s. I haven't ran into issues, but I don't play at breakneck speeds.

 

I get that question a lot, so all I can think is that people seem to have forgotten how to slow down after getting used to running over +4/x8 with full builds and incarnates.

[Yomo Kimyata]

46 minutes ago, ForeverLaxx said:

Still leveling, somewhere in the low 30s. I haven't ran into issues, but I don't play at breakneck speeds.

 

I get that question a lot, so all I can think is that people seem to have forgotten how to slow down after getting used to running over +4/x8 with full builds and incarnates.

 

If you are running seven (7!) dark armor toggles at that level, you must either have them slotted to near 100% end reduction, or have your attacks near the same.  Regardless, kudos!

[Courtney]

4 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

I just realized the OG is brand new (congrats on your first post) so wanted to expand a bit on stuff that us old school folks know.

...

Thanks for the info, and I thank you and others for the welcome.

[Snarky]

On my Dark Dark posted above I rely on recharge accuracy and Dark Consumption while levelling.  Yes, it does work.  If you are attacking enough to drain your Blue then there are enough enemies to steal a full bar of end around.  Unless its a AV.  Sheesh, carry blues.

 

The stun toggle is crap base accuracy.  So I build for global +hit and ACC   THis is very necessary as Soul Drain and Dark Consumption and Dark Regen all rely on hit rolls.

 

In CoH the basic defense strategy is layered mitigation.  Def>Res>Heal.  Dark turns that a bit around, and Dark/Dark gets mean about it.  The stealth DOES NOT Suppress in combat.  So you can kill 30 Longbow and the 17 Longbow 30 feet away ignore everything.  You have crap defense and no defense debuff resistance if you build for it.  You do have -to hit, a form of defense on the other end.  You are not seen.  Not seen, not swung at.  Defense.  Once you cozy up to a group and they see you most will be in your toggles.  Any that are stunned, or feared, are not....swinging at you.  More defense.  Dark has the best resists in the game, in my opinion.  Build for more!  Best heal in the game, flat out.  With a couple mobs in range you get a full green bar back, and it is up fast.  

[Uun]

I skipped both CoF and OG on my Dark/Dark tank. It's stupid tough already and really doesn't need additional protection from minions.

[TraumaTrain]

I run Cloak of Fear because it looks cool.

[SeraphimKensai]

My DA/SS tank uses Oppressive Gloom to stun stack. It is really effective.

 

Not Dark Armor but, my Ice/Dark Miasma/Dark Mastery Corruptor uses Oppressive Gloom to stun minions to effectively mitigate their chance to attack me, pairing that with Tar Patch and Darkest Night it makes it like they aren't even there (but then again when I drop ice storm they are deleted anyways).

 

Once again not Dark Armor but inspired by Dark Armor, my Warshade's Inky Aspect can also help stun lock minions. It can be really effective using it on targets without natural mez protection (case in point try and solo a Moonfire TF as a Warshade, and let me know how your solo fight with Arakhn goes when she stuns you with inky aspect).

 

Realistically all the variants of Oppressive Gloom are really cheap to run and by set design you should have some ability to mitigate the health cost. The stun may not be absolutely necessary in City of Nukes, but it can be a great mitigation tool, especially stacked.

 

Cloak of Fear however I personally find lacking, with the low accuracy rate and mobs getting tagged with Death Shroud breaking their fear almost as soon as they get it. The Tohit Debuff is the best aspect of the power but on a well built toon using IOs doesn't seem to be the best return on investment.

 

Death Shroud thematically is one of two powers that are the backbone to the dark armor theme, the other being Cloak of Darkness. A PBAoE damage aura is pretty much a must take on any toon that gets one as the ticks do add up, but it also helps with agro control. It's not the best with procs by design but offers decent slotting choices for chasing set bonuses.

[Frozen Burn]

I always take Opp Gloom.  Cheap toggle to run and it takes pesky minions out of the fight while I work on bosses and Lts.  And if you're bothered by the possible wandering of stunned minions (I am not), the Razzle Dazzle's Chance for Immob proc helps with some of that.  

 

I always skip Cloak of Fear.  While it looks cool, because it's base accuracy is lower than normal powers and it's such a heavy toggle, it really needs full 6 slots to become mediocre.  Generally, if you 6 slot something, it's uber.  CoF takes all 6 slots just to get on par and to me, it's a waste.  I can use those slots elsewhere.  

[Cutter]

On 2/19/2022 at 1:57 PM, Major_Decoy said:

On my tank, all three taunt, so I took all three.

 

Cloak of Fear is slotted with Cloud Senses (and a +5 boosted Acc/End Nightmare)

Oppressive Gloom is five slotted with Absolute Amazement (with the chance for to-hit debuff)

 

I also went with the immobilize proc interface and the control hybrid that give a chance to stun immobilized and feared enemies.

 

I run a similar setup on my tank, but with fewer slots because different priorities. Cloak gets 5x Unspeakable Terror, OG gets a single Razzle Dazzle (immob proc). Deep into the Presence pool. Same interface and hybrid as you. I'm also on Vigor Radial alpha cause it helps with so many things.