Best and Worst Archetypes and Builds for iTrials and the New Challenge Settings

[InvaderStych]

15 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

Is there a lot of Resist debuff in there to watch out for?

 

Tons.

 

12 minutes ago, Snarky said:

There is a lot or Resistance Debuff in some of the battles evidently.

 

Not evidently.  Definitely.

 

Smelters stack Melt Armor, something (not sure which) drop those blue-ring grenades of -Res laden doom, AU-Rifter's "gravity distortion" thing does -Res, and I think a few of them carry the same "rifle" that is granted as a reward, which is also -Res.

 

If one is not paying attention it is very easy to get into the red (negative resistance) and find oneself eating insurmountable quantities of damage in short order.

Edited March 19, 2022 by InvaderStych
word choice

[Snarky]

2 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

 

Tons.

 

 

Not evidently.  Definitely.

 

Smelters stack Melt Armor, something (not sure which) drop those blue-ring grenades of -Res laden doom, AU-Rifter's "gravity distortion" thing does -Res, and I think a few of them carry the same "rifle" that is granted as a reward, which is also -Res.

 

If one is not paying attention it is very easy to get into the red (negative resistance) and find oneself eating insurmountable quantities of damage in short order.

A great example why looking at an AT and the powersets and synergy is more important than filling out a grocery list.  4 Blasters check, 4 corruptors, check, 3 healers check, 1 controller, check, 1 tank check GO!   Nooooooo

 

It is ALL about niche cases in CoH.  Find armor you need for Aeon and get it to 100% resistance.  Even if you love Scrappers it might pay to bring a Brute to this fight so that you can actually stop eating greens and start cracking heads.  

 

In reality knowing what you are doing and getting most of the team/league to have a good mix of the powers you need is generally enough in CoH.  Of course.....I do not run Relentless.  The rest of the League is not a "carry" per se, they are working hard.  But you need to at least nod to certain mechanics in most of the high end stuff and nearly ALL the badge attempts at high end.

[StriderIV]

21 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

I also just recently learned that Resistance debuff resistance doesn't care about the archetype hard caps for Resistance, it uses the "real" number. So, even on a Controller or other squishy AT, if you buff their Resistance to 100%, they are now immune to resistable Resist debuffs of that flavor. There are no -Resist debuffs I can think of in iTrials, but they IIRC Longbow missions red side are prone to include it. Another feather in Thermal's hat.

 

(It's also often forgotten that Storm, Dark, and Cold all have exotic Resistance. We don't usually think of those sets as "big bubble" sets like FF or Sonic Resonance, but their aura power is actually pretty good, especially on Defenders).

 

 

 

 

 

I'm surprised about the AoE mezz protection to be honest. But again this could be coming from bias playing these trials. Every toon I build beelines mezz protection of some kind. There is of course that one difficult encounter in the Underground trial where mezz protection becomes absolutely vital. Are there significant other moments where it's a factor I'm not thinking of?

 

 

 

What's interesting about this to me is that single target -Resist is available in the Sonic Attack set in much greater volume than some actual Defender primary sets. Sonic Attack on its own can reasonably hit -60%, perhaps -80%. A set like Radiation Emission can only hit -30%. Even Thermal, which as we've noted is a high performer, only gets -30%. So it seems conceivable to me that that specific primary might supersede in this specific content. 

 

 

 

 

Like I mentioned I don't plan things out much. Usually if I'm joining one of these events it's going to be on someone who is not yet +3 specifically because I need to unlock stuff. I suppose that makes me a rider player. 🙂 A lot of the iTrial experience for me is played from the perspective of passive observer. I do know the mechanics of most of them, but except for a very limited number of toons don't have anything built for that kind of encounter. 

There's also possibly a subversive issue at play. I tend to know what the S Tier combos are and then not play them. Haha. I've always been attracted more to the middle tier performers. Hence Electric Control, Ice Control.

 

 

Want to see something really damning?

 

 

 

Wow that is definitely another feather in it’s hat. Excuse me while I look at primaries to pair with Thermal 😂

[oedipus_tex]

36 minutes ago, StriderIV said:

Wow that is definitely another feather in it’s hat. Excuse me while I look at primaries to pair with Thermal 😂

 

 

I tend to enjoy A and B listers who are a step below the "obvious" pairing, so I am playing it as Illusion/Thermal currently. It's not the soloist that Illusion/Cold or Illusion/TA are but it's good enough for what I enjoy. 

 

My guesses for top performers* would be Thermal/Sonic or Thermal/Beam Rifle. I almost rolled the latter, but realized I hadn't rolled an Illusion toon since live, and it was time.

 

I don't play Masterminds at all but based on what it does my guess is Thermal is one of the better Mastermind primaries. Even with reduced strength the effects are still good. Heat Exhaustion is -500 Regen on any AT, even MM's. The resist shields are base 15% compared to a Defender's 20%, so really not that huge a tradedown. 

 

Anyone can feel free to correct me. 🙂

 

 

 

* EDIT: Top performers for support I mean. I wouldn't want to try soloing a Therm/Sonic too much.

Edited March 19, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[StriderIV]

22 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

I tend to enjoy A and B listers who are a step below the "obvious" pairing, so I am playing it as Illusion/Thermal currently. It's not the soloist that Illusion/Cold or Illusion/TA are but it's good enough for what I enjoy. 

 

My guesses for top performers* would be Thermal/Sonic or Thermal/Beam Rifle. I almost rolled the latter, but realized I hadn't rolled an Illusion toon since live, and it was time.

 

I don't play Masterminds at all but based on what it does my guess is Thermal is one of the better Mastermind primaries. Even with reduced strength the effects are still good. Heat Exhaustion is -500 Regen on any AT, even MM's. The resist shields are base 15% compared to a Defender's 20%, so really not that huge a tradedown. 

 

Anyone can feel free to correct me. 🙂

 

 

 

* EDIT: Top performers for support I mean. I wouldn't want to try soloing a Therm/Sonic too much.

You know, I was thinking /Sonic could be a good fit. Bring all of the -res haha. /Dark stood out for the -tohit. Power Boosted Blackstar is a glorious thing I hear.

 

Reading over Thermal/, it seems like it could lend itself well as a hover defender. /Water or /Ice could work nicely if functioning at range. Although, I seem to be able to talk myself into it that Water Blast is good on any scenario since it’s fun to play 😂😂😂

[oedipus_tex]

8 minutes ago, StriderIV said:

You know, I was thinking /Sonic could be a good fit. Bring all of the -res haha. /Dark stood out for the -tohit. Power Boosted Blackstar is a glorious thing I hear.

 

Reading over Thermal/, it seems like it could lend itself well as a hover defender. /Water or /Ice could work nicely if functioning at range. Although, I seem to be able to talk myself into it that Water Blast is good on any scenario since it’s fun to play 😂😂😂

 

 

Power Boosted Blackstar is indeed ridiculous, and what's even more ridiculous as by the time you can do it it's really not that useful to do so anymore because a lot of the team already has a lot of Defense. 🙂 I really do like Dark Blast for other reasons though. 

 

Therm could also pair well with a direct damage set like Fire, Water, or Cold and a be hybrid DPS/support. It doesn't pack the sheer Resist debuff power of /Cold but I doubt any team would want to turn one down.

 

I've wondered if putting Gaussian's proc in Forge and bouncing it off a teammate or pet to proc Build Up is worthwhile when Thermal is paired with a set that lacks Aim. Not even sure if the Build Up would proc on caster, target, or both.

Edited March 19, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[Doomguide2005]

Two other thoughts when it comes to Relentless Aeon and Resistance.

1. Not only can you reach 100% resistance debuff resistance but unlike defense debuff resistance it can't be eroded.  You get hit by multiple resistance deuffs you resist all of them by 100%.  There's no way to initiate a cascade failure of resistance because the cap is 100%
2. There are some fairly nasty unresistable resistance debuffs present.

 

Edit:  And don't forget about the purple patch.   Those Melt Armor's are all by +4 foes (or worse), are AoEs and stack.  

Edited March 19, 2022 by Doomguide2005

[Doomguide2005]

 

5 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

I've wondered if putting Gaussian's proc in Forge and bouncing it off a teammate or pet to proc Build Up is worthwhile when Thermal is paired with a set that lacks Aim. Not even sure if the Build Up would proc on caster, target, or both.

I've wondered the same thing about Empathy's Fortitude.  Soul Drain, Fort an ally, Nuke 

[oedipus_tex]

32 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said:

 

I've wondered the same thing about Empathy's Fortitude.  Soul Drain, Fort an ally, Nuke 

 

 

Bonus points if the nuke you use is Rise of the Phoenix. That's a move they'll never see coming.

 

 

EDIT: OMG I just Mids'ed it. Hahahaha.

BRB need to to try this on the Beta server.

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[oedipus_tex]

Follow up: Yep, Forge procs Gaussian's on the caster.

 

[Peacemoon]

4 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

I tend to enjoy A and B listers who are a step below the "obvious" pairing, so I am playing it as Illusion/Thermal currently. It's not the soloist that Illusion/Cold or Illusion/TA are but it's good enough for what I enjoy. 

 

My guesses for top performers* would be Thermal/Sonic or Thermal/Beam Rifle. I almost rolled the latter, but realized I hadn't rolled an Illusion toon since live, and it was time.

 

I don't play Masterminds at all but based on what it does my guess is Thermal is one of the better Mastermind primaries. Even with reduced strength the effects are still good. Heat Exhaustion is -500 Regen on any AT, even MM's. The resist shields are base 15% compared to a Defender's 20%, so really not that huge a tradedown. 

 

Anyone can feel free to correct me. 🙂

 

 

 

* EDIT: Top performers for support I mean. I wouldn't want to try soloing a Therm/Sonic too much.

Talking about Thermal on MMs. I’m a fan of Demons/Thermal and will probably be my next main character. I think Thermal really works well with pets by making them tougher and being able to heal.

 

Plus Demons are high damage, support themselves and offer more shielding, but also offer more -res with the whips (and I think hellfire demons do -res too?)

 

Seems like a good package to me!

[Apparition]

6 hours ago, Snarky said:

You're killing me smalls. You Do not know what a Brute is?

 

I run a Dark/Invul Brute.  Situationally awesome.  I can Tank.  If you do not believe that then I cannot show it to you.  Sorry for your lack of understanding.  Would a Tank be a little easier to do that with.... slightly.  But guess what.  If you are holding agro and not dying it does not matter.  The Brute can do that.

 

I have a solid ST attack chain. That adds quite a bit more damage than a Tank.  As much as a Scrapper?  No.  But If I am Tanking AND doing significant damage?  This is not a bad combo.

 

But think what you want.  You have been around a few weeks.  if you think there is no place for Brutes in high end incarnate work you must be right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know exactly what a Brute is.  I played many of them on live.  My three favorite ATs back on live were Mastermind, Brute, and Corruptor.  Pretty much in that order.  But, objectively, looking at the ATs and power sets without taking people into the equation, Brutes just aren't that good on teams.  Sorry, they're just not.  Between the Brute damage cap nerf, the Scrapper ATOs, the Tanker buffs, and damage procs, Tankers and Scrappers will always be better depending if you need damage or a tank.  When it comes to a league situation, you're always going to have plenty of damage between Blasters, Corruptors, Scrappers, and Stalkers.  What Brute could possibly bring is a tank... and Tanker is better.  They're more survivable on their own, and do almost as much damage, and possibly as much damage.  End of story.  This is why every Brute I've played on Homecoming, I've ended up stripping and deleting because they have no point at endgame.

 

 

6 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

I also just recently learned that Resistance debuff resistance doesn't care about the archetype hard caps for Resistance, it uses the "real" number. So, even on a Controller or other squishy AT, if you buff their Resistance to 100%, they are now immune to resistable Resist debuffs of that flavor. There are no -Resist debuffs I can think of in iTrials, but they IIRC Longbow missions red side are prone to include it. Another feather in Thermal's hat.

 

I'm surprised about the AoE mezz protection to be honest. But again this could be coming from bias playing these trials. Every toon I build beelines mezz protection of some kind. There is of course that one difficult encounter in the Underground trial where mezz protection becomes absolutely vital. Are there significant other moments where it's a factor I'm not thinking of?

 

 

Yes, and as said by others, the Dr. Aeon Strike Force has plenty of mobs that do -resist debuffs.  That's one of the reasons why both Sonic Resonance and Thermal are very good.  The other reasons being Sonic's AoE mez protection and heaping helping of -res debuffs, and Thermal's healing and debuffs.  Sonic Resonance is actually one of the top support sets in the game at endgame, IMO.

 

The prisoners in the BAF trial confuse people.  In Minds of Mayhem, there is plenty of mezzing throughout.  Then there's the Underground Trial as you said.  There's also a ton of mezzing in the Dr. Aeon Strike Force.

[Arcadian-Prime]

Some people mentioned Elec Affinity. How would an Elec/Elec Defender fair in iTrials? Thermal seems interesting as well. How do they compare for tough content?

[Apparition]

33 minutes ago, Arcadian-Prime said:

Some people mentioned Elec Affinity. How would an Elec/Elec Defender fair in iTrials? Thermal seems interesting as well. How do they compare for tough content?

 

 

Elec/Elec Defender would be fine on iTrials, although IMO Electrical Affinity is best on Masterminds because it's very, very busy.  Your henchmen do damage, allowing you to focus on Electrical Affinity.  But, it'd still be very good on Defenders.  Thermal provides healing and buffs as does Electrical Affinity, but while Electrical Affinity also provides AoE mez protection, Thermal provides good debuffs.  So Thermal is a bit more of an offensive support set.  Both are very useful, just depends on what you need and what you want.

[oedipus_tex]

8 hours ago, Arcadian-Prime said:

Some people mentioned Elec Affinity. How would an Elec/Elec Defender fair in iTrials? Thermal seems interesting as well. How do they compare for tough content?

 

 

Although like I've mentioned I'm not an expert at organizing and running these events, I think probably any Defender is fine. Some are better than others, but Defenders in general are force multipliers who punch above their weight the more team members you add. I'm still curious about whether blast set matters "more" than secondary set TBH. A Force Field/Sonic Defender has more single target resistance debuff than any but a couple of support sets paired with non-Sonic Attack. 

 

That said, if you're specifically rolling an iTrial support character, I'd try for one of two combinations:

• Single Target resistance debuffer, 
• Single Target DPS with buff/debuff (that is, the style we mostly associate with Corruptor)

 

So, anyone else feel free to correct me, if I was rolling an Elec/Elec Defender and was worried if I'd be laughed out of the league the answer is "no, you'll contribute plenty and have fun." If you were rolling it to try to be a top contributor in the group, personally I'd consider Elec/Sonic, maybe Elec/Beam Rifle (iffy on this but its doable), OR roll as a Corruptor, take whatever buff/debuff set I wanted, and gear as a ST DPS cannon.

 

Whatever you do, I do highly recommend making sure the character has Stealth. There are multiple instances the team will be racing down hallways against a hail of enemy fire, and in my experience no one is likely to assist you during these moments. If you've ever done the Apex Task Force on an unoptimized squishy character and had to make the run through the sewer segment with the Hydras and pilons while the melee toons race of safely and leave you behind, you're getting an idea of what you'll encounter. 

 

 

I think this thread has revealed some different perspectives on what "best" sets are. Despite the name of the thread, I've never rolled and IOed a toon with the intent of specifically being an "iTrial character." I do think some people do this, as evidenced in this conversation. Most of my characters are still in some state of construction, either being underlevel, not well IOed, and often with powers that make more sense in a different context, since iTrials are an occasional event. That's part of where my perspective on Force Field comes from. I can still agree it's not a top set for these events, but having experienced the difference between 38 Defense to all on an unoptimized character versus none, I think dismissing it isn't entirely warranted. If you find yourself on an iTrial where everyone is only bringing their top notch toons I can see why it wouldn't help much, but at least the events I tend to end up participating in don't seem to be that way. 

 

I will say if I was focusing more on iTrials I wouldn't be playing as many Dominators. Someone is going to chime back in and say their Dom carries the event, and that's fine, a few specifics builds can do really well I imagine. My toons don't, though. Dominator controls are not that effective or needed in this content. Powers that make sense solo (e.g. Water Spout) often don't in 24 man leagues.

 

 

That also raises a question about Sonic Attack on Blasters. They do -13% Resist per blast, and its reasonable to picture them stacking it 3 to 4 times, for a total of -39 to -52. They trade some of their DPS away to do it. Does the tradeoff work out in favor of the Blaster.

Edited March 20, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[tidge]

1 hour ago, oedipus_tex said:

I will say if I was focusing more on iTrials I wouldn't be playing as many Dominators. Someone is going to chime back in and say their Dom carries the event, and that's fine, a few specifics builds can do really well I imagine. My toons don't, though. Dominator controls are not that effective or needed in this content. Powers that make sense solo (e.g. Water Spout) often don't in 24 man leagues.

 

I don't really enjoy iTrials (this is personal, a LOT of it has to do with leftover feelings from Live) and I'm always PUG-ing them, so there is that, but the most successful ones in which I felt like my characters were making a significant difference have been:

• Characters at/near the Defense cap without Incarnate (Purple inspirations are fine!)
• Characters that leaned into aspects of the build (and chosen powers) other than MOAR damage

Mileage varies, and the Purple Triangles are nobody's friend, but their are important aspects of powers and ATs that aren't as useful in 98%+ of game content, but can be revealed in both "endgame" content as well as lower-level (i.e. below 30) SFs/TFs run at +4. I'm not suggesting that everybody run a Synapse TF at +4 (because of reduced number of powers available), but running a Penny Tin TF or Katie Hannon TF at +4 can give PUG-ers an informed sense of what role they may be able to play on end-game content.

[Snarky]

3 hours ago, tidge said:

 

I don't really enjoy iTrials (this is personal, a LOT of it has to do with leftover feelings from Live) and I'm always PUG-ing them, so there is that, but the most successful ones in which I felt like my characters were making a significant difference have been:

• Characters at/near the Defense cap without Incarnate (Purple inspirations are fine!)
• Characters that leaned into aspects of the build (and chosen powers) other than MOAR damage

Mileage varies, and the Purple Triangles are nobody's friend, but their are important aspects of powers and ATs that aren't as useful in 98%+ of game content, but can be revealed in both "endgame" content as well as lower-level (i.e. below 30) SFs/TFs run at +4. I'm not suggesting that everybody run a Synapse TF at +4 (because of reduced number of powers available), but running a Penny Tin TF or Katie Hannon TF at +4 can give PUG-ers an informed sense of what role they may be able to play on end-game content.

Running ITrials (and all content, but especially hard mechanic driven contests like ITrials) with a quality SG like the one I ran into (Cosmic Council on Excelsior) has changed my gaming perspective.  The way they do things are pretty organized and insanely efficient.  

 

The difference for me was like being part of a group of farmers in a small community sharing small equipment and once in a while helping each other and doing a barn raising (PUG Life)....to a corporate farm where you jump into the job you need to work on while being given detailed ionstructions on what is happening, why it is happening, and what you can do before the event and during real time on discord (organized SG).  They just get the job done.  

 

This makes my gaming experience more productive and more fun.  Also, having a community on Discord to bounce ideas off and get info from is pure gold.

[Ironblade]

23 hours ago, StriderIV said:

I will say, I’m surprised I’ve seen Thermal so much. It does seem to have a great tool kick, but I always saw it as a “Jack of all trades, Master of none” which left it as a solid A/B tier set.

It might be worth noting that the entire saying is, "Jack of all trades and master of none.  But better than a master of one."

So the actual wisdom there is that being a jack of all trades is better than being a narrow specialist.

 

 

I'm seeing several people suggesting that you really need to have high defense to survive in iTrials.  In my opinion, getting high defense on something like a blaster gimps the other aspects of the character far too much to be worth it.  I NEVER build for defense unless the character inherently starts with a noticeable amount.  I have a blaster that's all tier 4 incarnate, a radiation defender, a corruptor, an empathy defender - all tier 4 and none of them have any defense (aside from Maneuvers, which I take to help teammates).   My dark defender has defense, since she starts with Shadowfall and would be taking Maneuvers anyway.

 

If you're dying too much in iTrials, change your play style instead of going for some cookie-cutter 'high survival' build that someone posted on the forums.  Stick with a group.  Follow a tank, scrapper or brute and let them take the alpha.

 

The incarnate trials really aren't that hard except when you're trying for specific badges.  Especially since you don't have to do ANY incarnate content to get your first level shift.  I guess you could also get your 2nd and 3rd level shifts without doing incarnate content, but that seems like it would take pretty much forever.  But the first level shift is built around task forces.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Ironblade

[Snarky]

3 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

It might be worth noting that the entire saying is, "Jack of all trades and master of none.  But better than a master of one."

So the actual wisdom there is that being a jack of all trades is better than being a narrow specialist.

 

 

I'm seeing several people suggesting that you really need to have high defense to survive in iTrials.  In my opinion, getting high defense on something like a blaster gimps the other aspects of the character far too much to be worth it.  I NEVER build for defense unless the character inherently starts with a noticeable amount.  I have a blaster that's all tier 4 incarnate, a radiation defender, a corruptor, an empathy defender - all tier 4 and none of them have any defense (aside from Maneuvers, which I take to help teammates).   My dark defender has defense, since she starts with Shadowfall and would be taking Maneuvers anyway.

 

If you're dying too much in iTrials, change your play style instead of going for some cookie-cutter 'high survival' build that someone posted on the forums.  Stick with a group.  Follow a tank, scrapper or brute and let them take the alpha.

 

The incarnate trials really aren't that hard except when you're trying for specific badges.  Especially since you don't have to do ANY incarnate content to get your first level shift.  I guess you could also get your 2nd and 3rd level shifts without doing incarnate content, but that seems like it would take pretty much forever.  But the first level shift is built around task forces.

I play two different types of Blaster.  1) Fully ranged. These I softcap Ranged defense on and use Ranged sets like Beam Rifle or Electric.  @) Just started a Fire/Fire Blaster.  No defense.  MOAR damage.  I depend on knowledge of the fights and teamwork to stay effective.  The Beam Rifle is the sweet spot of effective and easy for me.  But the Fire, wow, so much damage.  When you can make the Fire work you are seriously helping your team/league.

[StriderIV]

21 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

It might be worth noting that the entire saying is, "Jack of all trades and master of none.  But better than a master of one."

So the actual wisdom there is that being a jack of all trades is better than being a narrow specialist.

 

 

I'm seeing several people suggesting that you really need to have high defense to survive in iTrials.  In my opinion, getting high defense on something like a blaster gimps the other aspects of the character far too much to be worth it.  I NEVER build for defense unless the character inherently starts with a noticeable amount.  I have a blaster that's all tier 4 incarnate, a radiation defender, a corruptor, an empathy defender - all tier 4 and none of them have any defense (aside from Maneuvers, which I take to help teammates).   My dark defender has defense, since she starts with Shadowfall and would be taking Maneuvers anyway.

 

If you're dying too much in iTrials, change your play style instead of going for some cookie-cutter 'high survival' build that someone posted on the forums.  Stick with a group.  Follow a tank, scrapper or brute and let them take the alpha.

 

The incarnate trials really aren't that hard except when you're trying for specific badges.  Especially since you don't have to do ANY incarnate content to get your first level shift.  I guess you could also get your 2nd and 3rd level shifts without doing incarnate content, but that seems like it would take pretty much forever.  But the first level shift is built around task forces.

Great point on the Jack of all trades vs master of one!

[Glacier Peak]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Defender and Corruptor versions of Benumb from Cold Domination do the same -regen percentage as all ATs share the same -regen debuff modifier... at least that's what I believe @Bopper said to me in a separate thread recently.

[Bopper]

36 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but Defender and Corruptor versions of Benumb from Cold Domination do the same -regen percentage as all ATs share the same -regen debuff modifier... at least that's what I believe @Bopper said to me in a separate thread recently.

There's no Regeneration AT modifier. In the case of Benumb, it uses Ranged_Ones as the modifier table for PvE, so all AT versions of Benumb does the same Regeneration debuff because they use the same scale (-5.0 = 500% regen debuff).

 

There are likely examples of powers that use Melee_Ones or Ranged_Ones as the table, but they adjust the scale across ATs. I can't think of any true apples-to-apples comparison where the same version of a power from the same Category Name, but someone might think of one. 

 

Interestingly enough, in PvP the Regen debuff effect in Benumb does not use Ranged_Ones. It uses Ranged_Res_Boolean, which does change across ATs.

[oedipus_tex]

2 hours ago, Bopper said:

There's no Regeneration AT modifier. In the case of Benumb, it uses Ranged_Ones as the modifier table for PvE, so all AT versions of Benumb does the same Regeneration debuff because they use the same scale (-5.0 = 500% regen debuff).

 

There are likely examples of powers that use Melee_Ones or Ranged_Ones as the table, but they adjust the scale across ATs. I can't think of any true apples-to-apples comparison where the same version of a power from the same Category Name, but someone might think of one. 

 

Interestingly enough, in PvP the Regen debuff effect in Benumb does not use Ranged_Ones. It uses Ranged_Res_Boolean, which does change across ATs.

 

 

 

Bopper you're one of your best numbers guys. Do you have a sense of whether the Blaster version of Sonic Blast ends up finding a space for itself in iTrials? I know debuff is good, but I don't have a sense of how good, or how -Resist actually factors into the battle. 

[Bopper]

2 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

Bopper you're one of your best numbers guys. Do you have a sense of whether the Blaster version of Sonic Blast ends up finding a space for itself in iTrials? I know debuff is good, but I don't have a sense of how good, or how -Resist actually factors into the battle. 

That's a pretty vague question. Your personal DPS may not be great for a blaster, but the -res stacking (13%) that you'll do will surely help all the other teammates in your iTrial. Consider that as extra contribution from yourself and you'll be a positive influence on your team. In my opinion, it has a space for iTrials, but that feels like a low bar to clear.

[oedipus_tex]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

That's a pretty vague question. Your personal DPS may not be great for a blaster, but the -res stacking (13%) that you'll do will surely help all the other teammates in your iTrial. Consider that as extra contribution from yourself and you'll be a positive influence on your team. In my opinion, it has a space for iTrials, but that feels like a low bar to clear.

 

 

-58% ish Resistance is as good as or better than about half of Defenders (unless the Defender also happens to be a /Sonic). You still lose the other benefits of Defenders though, like team buffs. 

 

It's not clear to me though how much of the -58% actually applies. With 24 people hitting a target, increasing the amount of damage they all do by 58% seems enormous. But in practice, there must be some other factors in play. I just really don't understand how these fights break down. Are leagues often fighting end bosses who are at -400% or more Resistance? That number seems very achievable with just a couple of debuffers in play. But I don't understand how the big bosses own Resistances resist Resistance in these instances, or whether any of these AVs are more vulnerable to some kinds of resistance debuff than others because of the armors they have.