What Can Be Done to Recruit Players?

[Apparition]

I'm seeing talk elsewhere advising players new to City of Heroes that Excelsior is the only shard/server in all of City of Heroes (Homecoming, New Dawn, Rebirth, and Thunderspy), worth playing on because "even Everlasting is low pop now."

 

This can't be good for the health of the game nor the game's community overall.  I think we can all see that the overall Homecoming population is down to about half of what it was a year ago, which has nearly killed a couple of shards.

 

What suggestions can you come up with to help recruit new players? 

[biostem]

The hardest part, IMO, is getting people past the hurdle of this being an MMO that doesn't have some of the QoL features that they may expect from more modern games.  Don't get me wrong - I love CoH, but as I'm sure is the case for many players here, our ability to work around or see past those lacking features is second nature at this point.  Simple things, like being able to rotate our character model on the costume creator with just a click and drag of the mouse, or being able to zoom in and out of said character freely with the mouse wheel, simply aren't present.  As for which server to play on - I say just try whichever you like - character transfers are free, anyway...

Edited April 22, 2022 by biostem

[Without_Pause]

The best thing is putting out Pages so the MMO news sites have something to talk about. I think doing something with smaller but more frequent Pages would be the more ideal.

 

FYI, the game lived on even before the big reveal. I still think it does even as we get closer to the actual amount of long term players get settled in. I still will die on the hill that as other shards of CoH further die out, their team members should look into getting added here. Grab the people behind things like putting out Wind Control and the Guardian AT and lets go already.

[Nemu]

It's as much about retention as it is recruitment.

 

Unpopular opinion but stop enabling newcomers to shortcut the game straight to 50. Sitting in a fire farm with 2xp doesn't give these players any appreciation of the game and when they hit 50 incarnates trivialize the game and they think that's all there is to it. Skipping to 50 in 2 hours doesn't give you anytime to create bonds with the characters you make and that's a powerful emotion that draws people back. At that point there's nothing that makes this game sticky because in their mind COH is about fire farming and wrecking everything endgame with incarnates. Wouldn't you move on if that's all you think this game offers?

 

There are good kinds of enablement and bad kinds of enablement in this regard. Giving newcomers influence so they can get a head start on their COH journey is good. Giving them advice on how to play/build/make inf is good. But carrying them straight to 50 and beyond and depriving them of the real game experience is terrible. I know people think they are being helpful doing this and this is what constitutes a good community in their opinion but choices have consequences. And I believe we are reaping what we sow right now. This may or may not be the biggest culprit that contributes to the declining population but I believe it is an important one that should be recognized.

[Apparition]

2 minutes ago, Nemu said:

It's as much about retention as it is recruitment.

 

Unpopular opinion but stop enabling newcomers to shortcut the game straight to 50. Sitting in a fire farm with 2xp doesn't give these players any appreciation of the game and when they hit 50 incarnates trivialize the game and they think that's all there is to it. Skipping to 50 in 2 hours doesn't give you anytime to create bonds with the characters you make and that's a powerful emotion that draws people back. At that point there's nothing that makes this game sticky because in their mind COH is about fire farming and wrecking everything endgame with incarnates. Wouldn't you move on if that's all you think this game offers?

 

There are good kinds of enablement and bad kinds of enablement in this regard. Giving newcomers influence so they can get a head start on their COH journey is good. Giving them advice on how to play/build/make inf is good. But carrying them straight to 50 and beyond and depriving them of the real game experience is terrible. I know people think they are being helpful doing this and this is what constitutes a good community in their opinion but choices have consequences. And I believe we are reaping what we sow right now. This may or may not be the biggest culprit that contributes to the declining population but I believe it is an important one that should be recognized.

 

 

I 110% agree.  A friend of mine posted a suggestion last year that the AE buildings in Atlas Park and Mercy Island should be closed, and I agree.  I also think making double XP free was a mistake.  Make it available sure, but make it cost something like 5 million INF a hour... so if you do it, you can afford a build later.

 

 

 

[Without_Pause]

I sort of get why 2x XP boosters happened, and can see why certain people use them, but I find I enjoy my characters far more if I level them without them.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Today was the first morning in ages that I've logged on. For quite a while now, the extent of my game time was logging in maybe once a week for a single TF at night, then right back off. My brother and I discussed this, as he hasn't logged on in over 5 months, and it appears that while we were both ecstatic for the return of CoH, we've both gotten from it about all we can.

 

I don't think this is something that can be fixed and much less fixed with curbing farming or adding more stuff.

 

The game is old. It feels old. It looks old. It has old design philosophies. It has an old playerbase. I suspect the vast majority of us are only around due to nostalgia. It'll be around this time until it's not again. I'm grateful that BZB was able to live once more but I've no illusions about the future.

[Neiska]

A few random ideas from me that might not help but couldn't hurt either. But I do want to remind everyone of something - The HC staff aren't doing this for money, they aren't getting paid. Far as I know its a free project made with love. So I think we should keep expectations realistic than any great huge sweeping changes that would require lots of money and time investment. I don't know even how big their staff is, but I would be surprised if it was more than 10-20 people.

 

1. I don't know if HC has an active social media or not, (I don't use it myself) but things such as a facebook or official HC channel might draw in new attention where they talk about their current projects or the direction that HC is headed. Just to get people talking about them and to draw new attention to HC itself.

 

2. Possibly new ATs, or update the oldest ones. I know the original wiki still has "Primalist" up but not much more about it. And as far as I know, the Epic ATs (Warshade, Peacebringer, Solders of Arachnos and Widows) have never seen an update, ever since they were added in the original game. 

 

3. The ongoing power tweaks/updates/fixes are quite lovely, such as the Electrical trees, Seismic trees and what have you.

 

4. The ongoing addition of new Enchancements, but I wish they would add things that would open build variety, to make some powers not so obligatory in nearly every build, like Haste, Tough/Weave, Combat Jumping, etc. It seems no matter what AT/build someone makes, nearly all of them take these powers. Which makes "optional" powers, not so optional after all.

 

5. I know this is a long shot but here goes - what if CoH was linked to our RL phones somehow, like being able to check to see whose online, manage auctions, send ingame emails and so on? Some other games have this feature. And I do admit, it might be opening a can of worms with account security and the like. But I am wondering if this is even possible?

 

As the community we could come together to help matters as well. Because no matter what actions the staff takes, without us the game will flounder. Its like trying to run a Supergroup by yourself. If you don't have members who are also positive, energetic, and help out then it grows stale and can die out. So here are some spitballed ideas how "we" can help.

 

1. First off, talk about it to gamer friends from other games. I don't mean to try and "poach" from other games, but just mention it in passing. I keep finding more and more online friends who didn't even know CoH made a return.

 

2. Keep doing community events - hats off to those people who run/host public task forces, contests, games, so on. For nothing in return save for the entertainment of others.

2a. I am no PVPer myself, and I bear those that do no ill. And, lets be honest, out of all the different kinds of players here, the PVP community has the fewest tools available. But I honestly wonder why there isn't any sort of form of official PVP league yet, with like, rankings, different "weights" (pvp experience.) Like, how hard would it be to set up a "PvP Season" for each Server, pick some offical judges/refs from the pvp community, keep track of wins/losses, have different brackets, etc. It would be like CoH's Fantasy Football, just with PVP. I mean, I am sure people would volunteer to help farm money for prizes of that was needed too. Any pvper's care to comment here? Out of my realm of experience on this particular point, but it might be a good idea? 

 

3. I do wish the AE was more intricrate where we could make our own contact NPCs, story arcs, and so on. We can make our own bases, and make our own missions, it would be wonderful if we could find a way to link them somehow.

 

4. More and more I see people simply "reacting" to things, more than helping "create" them. If you help "create" things, such as team missions, farms, events, roleplay, so on, it could increase activity as well as interest. I hasten to add that I am not pointing the fingers at anyone here, it's only something I noticed. The community as a whole seems to be getting more and more passive/reactionary, than active/creative.

 

Just my two cents and a few random ideas off the top of my head. Hope they might helps. 

[Neiska]

15 minutes ago, Apparition said:

 

 

I 110% agree.  A friend of mine posted a suggestion last year that the AE buildings in Atlas Park and Mercy Island should be closed, and I agree.  I also think making double XP free was a mistake.  Make it available sure, but make it cost something like 5 million INF a hour... so if you do it, you can afford a build later.

 

 

 

 

I disagree here. The game has always been a "play your way" format. You can make what you want, go where you want, combat how you want, roleplay how you want. Now I do agree that newbies only getting game experience/play from fire farms is bad. But the AE is more of a critical tool than some might realize, which would be an entire topic all on its own and I feel would not be appropriate to hijack the thread with. All I will say is that this solution would indeed help "some" people/gameplay style, but harm "others." I mean if farming wasn't a tool available to me, I likely would have gotten bored and moved on, and its possible that many others would have as well. Just as much as the argument of "bonding with your character" makes people come back, so too does the argument of "I'm making alt #3092" has merit, and removing the AE tool would make this far more difficult and enjoyable.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Neiska
Ps - spelling

[Without_Pause]

They could restrict 2x XP boosters to those who have a level 50. Grind out a build and then you can go down the path of making alt #3092. If one is terrible at getting a character to level 50, then they likely weren't going to use the booster anyway.

[Neiska]

Just now, Without_Pause said:

They could restrict 2x XP boosters to those who have a level 50. Grind out a build and then you can go down the path of making alt #3092. If one is terrible at getting a character to level 50, then they likely weren't going to use the booster anyway.

 

See, I wouldn't object to that. Make the xp boosters unlockable after people already had a 50 on the account or make them cost inf. I don't oppose limits/restrictions, but I do oppose its outright removal. Or even restrict how much a person can get. Right now you can get like, 8 stacks for 8 hours. Why not make it so you can only get X amount X amount of time, or make it similar to the tailor tokens where you get X of them at each level or something like that.

 

I only maintain that removing AE/Farms would do as much harm as good, and that to me doesn't sound like a solution. 

[Nemu]

You interpret my comment of "stop enabling" as "remove AE"

 

Not the same. People's choices and their actions have consequences and that's what's driving people away. AE is a tool like any other. Bridges existed long before AE and the removal of AE isn't going to stop people from PLing.

 

People may think they have good intentions inviting a newbie to their fire farm to sit all the way to 50 and incarnates. Their intention might be good, but choices and actions have consequences.

 

I'm not asking to remove AE, I'm talking about a need to change the mindset in how to best enable new comers to encourage retention. A community is good only if there is a community, and these enablers (let me spell it out for you "I want my freedom" fighters, enablers are people) are achieving the opposite of what they hope to accomplish through their current methods.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Nemu

[Neiska]

Just now, Nemu said:

You interpret my comment of "stop enabling" as "remove AE"

 

Not the same. People's choices and their actions have consequences and that's what's driving people away. AE is a tool like any other. Bridges existed long before AE and the removal of AE isn't going to stop people from PLing.

 

People may think they have good intentions inviting a newbie to their fire farm to sit all the way to 50 and incarnates. Their intention might be good, but choices and actions have consequences.

 

I'm not asking to remove AE, I'm talking about a need to change the mindset in how to best enable new comers to encourage retention.

 

A fair reply! True, you did not say "remove it." So I will give you that. But not all "enabling" is bad either. That is merely your perspective. You don't "know" with certainty that drives people away. You don't "know" that speed-rushing people to 50, has a negative effect on player numbers and more than we "know" it has a positive one. And true, actions and choices have consequences. Just as a new player is free to choose to get power leveled, and go "eh, this game isn't for me." Well, then that's their choice to do so. You can't strongarm people into what your game ideal is, and expect everyone to feel the same. And like it or not, "farmers" are a community here as well. There are a few discords, where we talk about builds, strategies, builds that are good for soloing, or doing nonfarm activities. (I try to lean this way myself, builds that "can" farm, but can also do other activities.)

 

If you drew back the curtain on the farmers, and see the inner workings, you would see an entire sub community all its own, the same as base builders, club owners, storyline rpers, pvpers, so on. One of the discords I am in has over 600 members, and is more active than the official HC community. I can't claim to speak for everyone there, but the general attitude is that if AE was removed, or overly nerfed the majority of them would move onto other games. "Alt looping" as we call it, is an activity all its own. Making an alt, leveling it to 50 as fast as possible, fully gearing it up, and playing it for a time before setting it aside and trying something new has more replay value for some of us than anything else in the game. The thing is, if they overly nerf the "loop," to where you don't break even when bringing up an alt, well, that just made a hidden but popular kind of play invalid. I mean I have 3 accounts with around 20 fully purpled and t4 incarnated characters on each of them. Do you know how much time it took to get that? Over a year (played off and on.)

 

And I hasten to add that I am merely trying to explain things from my side of the fence here. To me its the same side of the coin, and many suggestions I see would do more bad than good, but the people suggesting them might not see it or be aware. They only see things from where they sit - the number of low number tfs being run for example.

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 hour ago, Apparition said:

 

 

This can't be good for the health of the game nor the game's community overall. 

 

Good luck getting the light bulb to change by itself.  We are playing an *AWESOME* game that is now 16 years old.

 

It's old enough to give you side-eye when you ask it to help around the house.

 

I do not see a path where CoX gets tens of thousands of new players.  But I do recommend reaching out to all your old friends who used to play the game.

 

 

[UltraAlt]

16 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

But I do recommend reaching out to all your old friends who used to play the game.

 

Print up your own join Homecoming business cards or fliers and hand them out at Conventions and don't forget to give them to cosplayers and let them know about the depth of the City of Heroes costume creator!

[Apparition]

5 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

Good luck getting the light bulb to change by itself.  We are playing an *AWESOME* game that is now 16 years old.

 

It's old enough to give you side-eye when you ask it to help around the house.

 

I do not see a path where CoX gets tens of thousands of new players.  But I do recommend reaching out to all your old friends who used to play the game.

 

 

 

 

Yeah.  And I have.  The responses usually go around the lines of:

 

• "I'm just too busy for gaming these days."  Legitimate.  Life happens.  Nothing you can do there.
• "I've already done it all at least a thousand times.  Every thing you can possibly do in the game, I've done more times than I can count.  I've moved on."
• "Homecoming has made the endgame too easy.  People only do Incarnate trials because they want to, not because they need to."
• "Too many people only farm."
• "City of Heroes is just too old now.  There are tons of newer, more modern, and better looking games out there.  Why would I want to continue playing a dead eighteen year-old video game?  Really, you should come join us in DC Universe Online/Final Fantasy XIV/Guild Wars 2/SWTOR/whatever the new hotness is now instead."

[Yomo Kimyata]

23 minutes ago, Apparition said:

 

 

Yeah.  And I have.  The responses usually go around the lines of:

 

• "I'm just too busy for gaming these days."  Legitimate.  Life happens.  Nothing you can do there.
• "I've already done it all at least a thousand times.  Every thing you can possibly do in the game, I've done more times than I can count.  I've moved on."
• "Homecoming has made the endgame too easy.  People only do Incarnate trials because they want to, not because they need to."
• "Too many people only farm."
• "City of Heroes is just too old now.  There are tons of newer, more modern, and better looking games out there.  Why would I want to continue playing a dead eighteen year-old video game?  Really, you should come join us in DC Universe Online/Final Fantasy XIV/Guild Wars 2/SWTOR/whatever the new hotness is now instead."

 

So, you are complaining that your efforts have gone to naught.  I don't know how to help you?

[PeregrineFalcon]

17 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

So, you are complaining that your efforts have gone to naught.  I don't know how to help you?

Sometimes people just need to vent. Especially when it's about something they care about as much as City of Heroes.

 

Also, where's my random assortment of Pacing of the Turtle IOs?  🙂

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, Neiska said:

 

See, I wouldn't object to that. Make the xp boosters unlockable after people already had a 50 on the account or make them cost inf. I don't oppose limits/restrictions, but I do oppose its outright removal. Or even restrict how much a person can get. Right now you can get like, 8 stacks for 8 hours. Why not make it so you can only get X amount X amount of time, or make it similar to the tailor tokens where you get X of them at each level or something like that.

 

I only maintain that removing AE/Farms would do as much harm as good, and that to me doesn't sound like a solution. 

 

Time: OK, so they sit a little longer on a farm first.

INF: ... isn't hard to get.

 

Side problem for any restricting is, well, a lot of us are "oldbies," and just want to get an old character up and running. (Or, like me, are in it primarily for the RP now.)  All these sorts of ideas would do is add some annoyance.

 

And as to the OP:

Mentioned elsewhere, but this game's old enough to start trying to get its learners permit and crash the car into a tree. The game *looks old.* NCSoft butchered every chance they had to promote the game when it was live - deciding, instead, to try to sell us sneakers on billboards in-game. While we still had a profitable enough population then, now? We are still in a rather grey legal status, we have a volunteer dev team that does things as they can (and, yes, has been pretty good at that, but still, small, volunteer team,) and our character models don't even have fingers.  I mean, I took a break during live and played Aion... with facial expressions, round characters, gorgeous environments, nicely done wings, and the ability to sit in chairs - and *that* game's a decade old now. We're not as flashy. We'd probably get more retro gamers interested than anything.

 

Short of a total rewrite, with a new engine, etc. (and how are those "spiritual successors" going even with money?) we're playing an old game.

[BurtHutt]

Good topic. I will say I rarely play much these days. The materials being added are very much like what we had back when...same old, same old. The Aeon SF had some cool mechanics and play but it's just too much - you're bombarded with text, you don't know what you're doing (unless you go and read up on it) and you're kinda puzzled the whole time. Sure, after reading up on it and running it a few times, you get the idea....but I still don't really enjoy it. It's just too much and too long.

 

The other new additions (missions/arcs) are also too much like what we have. Sure, the Freak arc has some new mechanics but it looks just like what has been around for ages. 

 

For me, there is significant fatigue. I kept hoping HC Devs would get creative and original but they really haven't which is too bad. To each their own.

 

How do we add/retain? Well, my comments may help with some of that. I've submitted a pile of ideas and have DMed some of the HC team. None of my ideas have been used and that's fine. But, maybe Devs could look at the forums and get some guidance from there.

 

My day job involves dealing in human behaviour. I will say the HC Devs removed a lot of the 'grind' from the game...maybe too much. The grind is part of what keeps players involved. It's that piece where they have to do certain tasks, sometimes not so great ones, in order to get their desired objective (costume unlocks, going to other zones to get access to Pocket D, giving away 2XP for nothing, easy incarnate XP and so on). I agree with removing a lot of the grindey things like old costume piece unlocks but they should make 2XP limited (2XP weekends two weekends a month maybe? Or 1 week a month only?), stop making so many shortcuts (Pocket D entrance in Atlas is an example. Reduce the amount of incarnate XP one earns if they do not do the old Trapdoor unlock (maybe 1/4 the rate). However, I do feel the player made SG base/transport hubs are important as they help remedy the issues of the older parts of the game where we run around for almost no reason - ex.: Citadel TF).

 

If you hand almost everything on a platter, you remove the need to play as much. Things are easier.

 

I think the HC team is doing great. They are just as professional as when the game was Live. However, I think they miss the mark when it comes to adding content. 

 

Personally, I think adding my AE idea (where players add content that is made canon etc) would be a good add. Self-serving? Sure. Would it create a lot of unique content that is sorely needed? Probably. 

 

 

So, if the goal is to add players and retain them, here are some reasons why they're not here. It's great to see the passionate players come on here and offer solutions. I've added mine 🙂

Edited April 22, 2022 by BurtHutt

[Marbing]

4 hours ago, Apparition said:

I'm seeing talk elsewhere advising players new to City of Heroes that Excelsior is the only shard/server in all of City of Heroes (Homecoming, New Dawn, Rebirth, and Thunderspy), worth playing on because "even Everlasting is low pop now."

 

This can't be good for the health of the game nor the game's community overall.  I think we can all see that the overall Homecoming population is down to about half of what it was a year ago, which has nearly killed a couple of shards.

 

What suggestions can you come up with to help recruit new players? 

The promise of cake?

[Oklahoman]

@Greycat summed it up for me very well.

 

I don't know how we do a reasonable sized recruiting effort while we are in a "gray legal status" and the game could have to go down at any time based on the whim on NCsoft. If that ever gets resolved, and I ain't holdin' my breath on that one, then maybe we'll be in a position to market ourselves to younger gamers as an entry level, free MMO that's easy to play.

 

[BurtHutt]

42 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

Time: OK, so they sit a little longer on a farm first.

INF: ... isn't hard to get.

 

Side problem for any restricting is, well, a lot of us are "oldbies," and just want to get an old character up and running. (Or, like me, are in it primarily for the RP now.)  All these sorts of ideas would do is add some annoyance.

 

And as to the OP:

Mentioned elsewhere, but this game's old enough to start trying to get its learners permit and crash the car into a tree. The game *looks old.* NCSoft butchered every chance they had to promote the game when it was live - deciding, instead, to try to sell us sneakers on billboards in-game. While we still had a profitable enough population then, now? We are still in a rather grey legal status, we have a volunteer dev team that does things as they can (and, yes, has been pretty good at that, but still, small, volunteer team,) and our character models don't even have fingers.  I mean, I took a break during live and played Aion... with facial expressions, round characters, gorgeous environments, nicely done wings, and the ability to sit in chairs - and *that* game's a decade old now. We're not as flashy. We'd probably get more retro gamers interested than anything.

 

Short of a total rewrite, with a new engine, etc. (and how are those "spiritual successors" going even with money?) we're playing an old game.

Not sure I agree with this. Graphics are old but a LOT of people don't mind if the game play is enjoyable. Sure, it's an issue for some but it's not a deal breaker. I enjoy Valheim and it has poor graphics (it also sold approx. 6 million copies when it first came out).

 

Billboard ads were fine. It was a revenue stream. Not a big deal. I was puzzled why it bothered people so much. I always thought it was a tad ignorant/moronic when players got so...butthurt... about the ads.

 

I think this game needs bold and original additions. It's a gamble cuz who knows what works and what doesn't....players are finicky. All I know is that the direction needs to change a bit and it seems players may have some fatigue from seeing the same old added (even if its just in appearance). 

[Marbing]

Really @BurtHutt? A thumbs down? C'mon man I was being silly...

...I will give you cake if you turn that thumb around! 😄 

 

6 minutes ago, BurtHutt said:

I enjoy Valheim and it has poor graphics (it also sold approx. 6 million copies when it first came out).

Also, great point here. I love Valheim, and I bought it without the promise of cake!

 

 

 

 

But to be serious. Word of mouth is going to be the best way here. Tell people you know to play it. That is how I have done it. I have gotten at least 5 people I know to play this game. The issue then is retention. Once those people get to 50 and play the "end game stuff" they usually feel like there isn't much left to do and move on to something else. It is what it is.

[Zhym]

My thoughts are more about making the game newbie-friendly than recruiting.

 

A lot has already been said about fire farms, so I won't repeat it accept to say that I agree that powerleveling, while useful to old hands who just want to see what a particular build plays like at level 50, isn't really a great way to get newbies into the game.

 

The bigger problem, IMO, is that Homecoming's economics are completely non-intuitive to a new player.  What new players expect, I think, is that by fighting bad guys (or, for villains, good guys), they make influence, which then allows them to buy upgrades.  And in fact this was how City of Heroes worked for a long time.  But now, the way to make any decent amount of money is through the market.  The easiest way to do that is to grab some quick Reward Merits by touring Atlas Park's badge locations, using them to buy converters, then selling the converters.  There's your ~1 million seed money.  After that, making more money is a matter of either continuing to turn Merits into Converters into Inf, or you need to craft enhancements.  We're all used to this by now.  But for the new player?  I don't think it helps the new player that crafting and the market are not optional.  I haven't played any other MMORPGs in long enough to know if that's atypical for games now, but it sure seems weird to me.

 

Alas, I don't have a good solution for how messed up (IMO) Homecoming's economics are—certainly not one that wouldn't break things further.  But I do think that the current method of making money is really confusing to a new player, especially one who doesn't check in with the forums to find out how they're supposed to do it.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Zhym