Regen and an epic'ed out build

[Blackjoy]

4 hours ago, Sabrehawk said:

Personally I enjoy soling certain Dark Astoria groups at +4x8

From a design perspective, the game is already "broken." Certainly at lvl 50, and arguably lower as a result of lvl 50's exemping down and totally outclassing their mentors.  4x8 is meant to be an extreme challenge for a team of 8, not a mild exercise for a single toon.   It's funny that no one can even acknowledge that a little...well, there's one person who has talked about it.  

 

But's let's be clear.  At this point, I'm not talking about changing the cap/floor, I'm talking about the developers making a decision that they want to actually balance the game at lvl 50.  Because right now, I don't think they really care as long as things are within a really wide margin, even allowing a few anomalous data points.

 

4 hours ago, Sabrehawk said:

It might change nothing about the leveling experience for most sets. But other sets, at the extreme end of difficulty, would be devastated.

What you are seemingly blind to is that the ability for AT's to solo content that was intended to be an extreme challenge for a team  has negative repercussions on many aspects of the game and specifically the player community at large.

 

1) It trivializes the team experience when a single tanker or scrapper or dominator can single handedly defeat every spawn.....at the hardest difficulty level.  Many of the KTM ITF's I've been on, the scrappers/brutes/tankers just run off leaving the squishes to fend for themselves, and die.  What was intended, was that this type of content would require AT's to work together.  The only time I see this now, is on the raids.   With no need for team cohesion to succeed, players lose out on the social payoff of working together.  When I played on Live, you needed support, you loved support.  Now, who cares if you have it.  And I've seen it cut both ways, with blasters tanking 4x8 content.

 

2) lvl 50's exemping down generally trivializes content for players who are at those levels.

 

3) When you have some players who can solo extreme content strictly because of build, it makes it difficult for devs to develop balanced content for the average player. 

 

4) When players can beat the game at the highest levels, they get bored.  

 

So...the game is already broken, IMO.

 

4 hours ago, Sabrehawk said:

But there are other changes. How would this effect high end content? Soloing Aeon's Strike Force or running Linea's 801 AE mission series? What about PvP? 

I'm betting Aeon's Strike Force was never meant to be solo'd.   So I don't think complaints from the 1% of the player base who can no longer do something that wasn't intended to be done in the first place,  is a compelling argument.  It probably gets you upvotes on a forum dominated by min/maxers, but the player base at large would probably enjoy the game more if actual combat tactics were a thing.  I remember them being thing on Live.  Now...lol.  If you're lucky someone understand the concept of pulling, except you don't need it when the controller can take the alpha.

 

801?  The difficulty is arbitrary.  If something lowered the power level of lvl 50's, then someone will create 901 series and that will become the standard.

 

If I understand correctly, PvP uses Elusivity instead of +DEF.    That suggest you can change one without changing the other.   Even if you can't, I think they have two sets of rules (evidenced by PvP/PvE enhancements) and PvP can stay the same until they can analyze it and decide if they think it's fair for all sets.  I haven't done any PvP since Live.  The few times I visited the zones on HC...they were entirely empty.  

 

4 hours ago, Sabrehawk said:

What you are proposing is a mild change to some content and a monumental, earth shaking change to other content.

I'm not convinced that's true.  Or perhaps more accurately, I don't agree that not being able to solo +4's is "earth shaking." 

4 hours ago, Sabrehawk said:

The magnitude of impact of this change on content does not scale linearly with the type of content.

I don't even know what that means.  But I'll bet that the content designers would be happy to see the extreme content no loner getting solo'd and instead force 8 players to actually work as a team.   Maybe it would be "earth shattering" if a Tanker actually needed a Defender's support.

 

4 hours ago, Sabrehawk said:

But other sets, at the extreme end of difficulty, would be devastated.

Being a little melodramatic?  You can't solo some arbitrary difficulty, and neither can anyone else, means means your build is "devastated?"  Yeah if I'm a developer and I need to grow the player base to make money, I'm making that trade.   HC doesn't really need to grow the player base, they just need to pay their overhead, so growth isn't really the issue it would be otherwise.  As such, I don't seem them making any substantive changes.

4 hours ago, Sabrehawk said:

There is some daylight between a change to a single powerset (Regeneration), in a single mode (PvE) and a change to a fundamental mechanic of the game that effects every character and every type of content, but not evenly. A buff to Regeneration in PvE affects players who use Regeneration in PvE. A change to the hit mechanics effects every single character in the game, but some far more than others. 

 

There may be daylight, or there may not be.   Because there is no closed-formed solution, we simply don't know.  So it may be that the problem isn't actually /Regen at all.  And it would be unfortunate if the dev's botched /regen's play experience trying to tweak the wrong thing.    The  alleged "problems" for /Regen are an inability to solo "extreme" content for some arbitrary similarity in funds or effort.   If no one else could solo that content (and we're talking about content that was never intended to be solo'd), then /Regen wouldn't need to be tweaked at all.  

Now to be fair, Kopok has a slightly different concern.  But I think the issue is born from the same problem if he's saying it only happens at lvl 50.

 

Again, I don't think the devs are fixing lvl 50.  They may fix lvl 50 from screwing up lvls 1-49, but that's the best we can hope for.

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Blackjoy

[Brutal Justice]

10 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Yes, we do. And we also know that resistance automatically resists resistance debuffs and defense doesn't. The devs know and knew this as well.

We also know that defense automatically dodges defense debuffs and resistance doesn’t.  

 

Resistance resists -resistance.  

Defense defends -defense.  

 

RR-R

DD-D

 

10 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

while not actually caring that those values don't correlate to the basis of your argument that 90% resist = 45% defense and then expect the rest of us to hop on board at nothing more than your say so.

Umm.  My argument was never about 90% = 45%.  That’s just nice math that’s easy for people to see the disparity between 75% and 45%.  The basis of my argument has always been that the ability for every archetype to reach softcap is grossly unbalanced.  

 

Nothing more than my say so?  No.  I gave lots of math to show the disparity.  I welcomed correction if it was needed.  I used other people’s survival calculators to show the disparity.  I chose those numbers but if the devs decided it should be the lower numbers then that’s fine.  The point is and always has been that softcap shouldn’t be available to all archetypes.  

 

10 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I suspect everyone else got the sarcasm in my post but I'll apologize for leaving off the /sarcasmoff tag.

 

You are correct that the discussion of lowering the defense softcap is a waste of time and yet you continue to bring it up every chance you get.

Apologize if you want.  I was only defending myself against your accusations of me.  

 

I bring it up when I just happen upon a discussion where someone like @Blackjoy is recognizing the situation and theory crafting how to fix it all on their own.  They’re basically talking about doing the same thing just using different terminology.

 

 It seems like it happens all the time because there are always new people, who care about balance, entering the discussion.  They often haven’t crunched any numbers, or might not know any numbers.  They just know by an eye test something is not right.  They try to mention something and get shouted down by the likes of you and several others, even though you’ve demonstrated, not to them, you have full knowledge of the imbalance.  You just don’t care.  

[arcane]

12 hours ago, Blackjoy said:

Reordering powers isn't going to to do anything unless we know the reason for /SR's survival woes is predominately due to AoE.  In fact, it's possible that putting Evasion earlier in the lineup might exasperate /SR's endurance issues.  IME, /SR's problems aren't that it needs more +DEF, it's that it needs more layered mitigation or at least +RES that is actually effective against AVs and EBs.  Granted, maybe that is intended kryptonite for /SR, along with endurance issues, no toxic or psi resist, and no defense against non-positional attacks.

 

 

You said SR’s problem was mid-game performance. I said ok let’s just say I believe you. Now, to fix your problem, do something that will boost its mid-game performance BUT NOT its endgame performance (because everyone here knows SR is strong enough endgame). The only change that could possibly relieve your mid-game problem, while also NOT buffing a top tier endgame powerset, is reordering the powers. You don’t get to say only the mid-game is the problem so let’s buff the already-overpowered endgame. So all of your other proposals can be immediately ruled out for not being appropriately targeted at the only actual problem area.

Edited July 7, 2022 by arcane

[Gobbledygook]

Scrappers have been running off to do there own thing on TF's since release.

We call it Scrapperlock.

Brutes have been doing it since CoV release, especially if there is more than one Brute/Tank on the team. Don't want anyone stealing our Fury.

 

These things happened on SO's, after ED.

IO's and the Incarnate system didn't break the game.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Gobbledygook
Reasons

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, Brutal Justice said:

I bring it up when I just happen upon a discussion where someone like @Blackjoy is recognizing the situation and theory crafting how to fix it all on their own.  They’re basically talking about doing the same thing just using different terminology.

 

Yup, the guy agreeing with you states SR underperforms and this means we should nerf SR to fix it.

 

The brilliance shown by the two of you truly is awe-inspiring.

[Troo]

Yeah, and Thursdays are international Nerf SR day!

 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Troo
regen is the bestest on tanks

[Bill Z Bubba]

In a thread about regen, where some consensus had been met regarding helping regen out with debuff resistance for regen and recharge, we end up again having to read the nerf defense spew when said proposal would do nothing but leave tanks, arguably the most OP AT in the game at this point, and brutes untouched while everyone else in the game at the old softcap to anything gets hit 100% more often than they were to anything they were softcapped against.

 

It's a good thing that no one in control of this game agrees with this idiocy.

 

Are there balance problems in this game? Oh hell yes, tons of them. The fact that my shield/nrg tank has the same pylon time as my claws/sr scrapper and can solo a max diff no temps no insps no faceplants ITF in HALF the time is fucking ludicrous. It's horrifically broken. The performance disparity between powersets within archetypes is just as awful, an example provided in this very thread.

 

And what's BJ's fix? Nerf everyone but tanks and brutes. Cuz that'll magically fix everything.

 

As for everyone being overpowered because some folks can run at max diff with some power combo from every AT, let's remember that the difficulty settings in this game were changed AFTER the invention system was added, and they were changed because way too many people found +3/x1 or +2/x2 (where the old diff system capped out while solo) to be WAAAY too easy. I remember this because I wasn't playing when it happened. I got a ping on steam that said, "Yo, brutes got claws and new diff settings let you do +4/x8 while solo." Damn right I came back for that.

 

So don't try to tell us that the devs didn't have soloing at max diff in mind even back then. And THEN they added incarnate powers which for some ATs and powerset combos, even trivialized max diff. Again, I'm looking at my shield/nrg tank here. Sure, my sr/claws tank is unkillable but DAMN he's slow in comparison. Point is, this has been the plan all along and those folks stating otherwise are nothing short of wrong.

 

All the melee armors should perform equally within some reasonable ballpark of mitigation within an archetype. Same goes for the attack sets. Buff the ST side? Great, as long as their AoE output is as far below the midline as the ST is above it. Armors too far above the midline need to be nerfed. Armors too far below it need to be buffed. Again, same goes for the attack sets. This works for all the archetypes. Kheldians on the whole performing too far behind the other ATs? Buff 'em. Tanks too OP now? Nerf 'em. That's how you balance the game.

 

Nerfing everyone but tanks and brutes will not get us anywhere closer to a balanced game. Quite the contrary.

[Troo]

5 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

some consensus had been met regarding helping regen out with debuff resistance for regen and recharge

 

make it so

[Gobbledygook]

8 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

In a thread about regen, where some consensus had been met regarding helping regen out with debuff resistance for regen and recharge, we end up again having to read the nerf defense spew when said proposal would do nothing but leave tanks, arguably the most OP AT in the game at this point, and brutes untouched while everyone else in the game at the old softcap to anything gets hit 100% more often than they were to anything they were softcapped against.

 

It's a good thing that no one in control of this game agrees with this idiocy.

 

Are there balance problems in this game? Oh hell yes, tons of them. The fact that my shield/nrg tank has the same pylon time as my claws/sr scrapper and can solo a max diff no temps no insps no faceplants ITF in HALF the time is fucking ludicrous. It's horrifically broken. The performance disparity between powersets within archetypes is just as awful, an example provided in this very thread.

 

And what's BJ's fix? Nerf everyone but tanks and brutes. Cuz that'll magically fix everything.

 

As for everyone being overpowered because some folks can run at max diff with some power combo from every AT, let's remember that the difficulty settings in this game were changed AFTER the invention system was added, and they were changed because way too many people found +3/x1 or +2/x2 (where the old diff system capped out while solo) to be WAAAY too easy. I remember this because I wasn't playing when it happened. I got a ping on steam that said, "Yo, brutes got claws and new diff settings let you do +4/x8 while solo." Damn right I came back for that.

 

So don't try to tell us that the devs didn't have soloing at max diff in mind even back then. And THEN they added incarnate powers which for some ATs and powerset combos, even trivialized max diff. Again, I'm looking at my shield/nrg tank here. Sure, my sr/claws tank is unkillable but DAMN he's slow in comparison. Point is, this has been the plan all along and those folks stating otherwise are nothing short of wrong.

 

All the melee armors should perform equally within some reasonable ballpark of mitigation within an archetype. Same goes for the attack sets. Buff the ST side? Great, as long as their AoE output is as far below the midline as the ST is above it. Armors too far above the midline need to be nerfed. Armors too far below it need to be buffed. Again, same goes for the attack sets. This works for all the archetypes. Kheldians on the whole performing too far behind the other ATs? Buff 'em. Tanks too OP now? Nerf 'em. That's how you balance the game.

 

Nerfing everyone but tanks and brutes will not get us anywhere closer to a balanced game. Quite the contrary.

 

Have you posted your SD/NRG tank anywhere?

[Bill Z Bubba]

9 minutes ago, Gobbledygook said:

Have you posted your SD/NRG tank anywhere?

 

Several times but have at it knowing that there's even better builds out there. Edit: change rebirth radial to ageless core.

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.1.2.5
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Zariela-leadership: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(3), ShlWal-Def(3), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(5), UnbGrd-ResDam(5), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7)
Level 1: Barrage -- Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(7), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(9), Rct-Def/Rchg(9), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Rct-ResDam%(11)
Level 4: Bone Smasher -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Hct-Acc/Rchg(13), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Hct-Dam%(15), TchofDth-Dam%(17)
Level 6: True Grit -- Mrc-Heal(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(17), NmnCnv-Heal(19), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(19), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(21), TtnCtn-ResDam(21)
Level 8: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Fly -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 14: Phalanx Fighting -- Ksm-ToHit+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(23)
Level 16: Whirling Hands -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Arm-Acc/Rchg(25), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Arm-Dam%(27)
Level 18: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 20: Total Focus -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(48), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(50)
Level 22: Grant Cover -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(29)
Level 24: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(47)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Obl-Acc/Rchg(A), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(31), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Obl-%Dam(33)
Level 28: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), GssSynFr--Build%(33)
Level 30: Boxing -- Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A)
Level 32: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 35: Gloom -- Apc-Dmg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Apc-Acc/Rchg(39), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Apc-Dam%(40), GldJvl-Dam%(40)
Level 38: Energy Transfer -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(40), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(43)
Level 41: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43), UnbGrd-Max HP%(45), GldArm-3defTpProc(45), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(45)
Level 44: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(46)
Level 47: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Darkest Night -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(34), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(36), Pnc-Heal(36), Pnc-Heal/+End(37), Prv-Absorb%(37)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(34), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(34), PrfShf-End%(36), PwrTrns-+Heal(37)
Level 1: Energy Focus
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Rebirth Radial Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment
Level 50: Carnival Radial Superior Ally
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Task Force Commander
Level 50: Portal Jockey
Level 10: Afterburner
------------

 

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Edited July 7, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[InvaderStych]

@Bill Z Bubba gets it.

 

And it only took half of this damn thread for someone to say it.

 

We're already playing City of Tanks.  Not interested in a global mechanical nerf to nearly every other AT just to further exacerbate the situation.

[Marshal_General]

22 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Because the rioting is surely only to come from the unenlightened masses incapable of understanding the underlying math of the game.

Having been around for the discussions back on live, I am not sure the devs understood the underlying math of the game.

[Marshal_General]

I would like to see regen get:

-Recharge debuff resistance

-Regen debuff resistance

Absorb pool.

 

How many time has comics shown Wolverine take a lot of damage before it starts showing? To me, that is best shown as an absorb pool that regens out of combat.

[Gobbledygook]

I see Wolvie as more WP than Regen.

He can dodge, take hits, and regen.

Deadpool is more pure Regen.

 

Just my opinion.

[Brutal Justice]

Nooo!  /e shakesfist.  The trump card has been played!  Misdirection!   

 

There is no possible way I can recover.  Possibly had there not also been the combo of curse words?  Alas.  

 

Farewell dear friends.  I have been bested.  Until next time!

 

(Hangs head in shame and slowly leaves the chat)

[Bill Z Bubba]

Well if that's all it takes, I'll save that post for next time.

[Blackjoy]

8 hours ago, arcane said:

You said SR’s problem was mid-game performance.

Not exactly.  /SR's problem is that it needs other forms of mitigation.  The scaling resists tend to fail in the same situation when /SR's +DEF fails.   When I made my thread asking the Dev's to look into it, I finally got people to at least admit, indirectly, that /SR has problems when you aren't capping +DEF.   Specifically people conceded the mid-game is a prolem because  encounters start hitting you with more AoE in the 30's.  But by the 40's, people (especially those who are on these forums) have started completing their builds and /SR's problems are masked.  The virtues of soft capping easily overcompensatesfor /SR's inherent issues.

 

8 hours ago, arcane said:

I said ok let’s just say I believe you.

You shouldn't believe me.  You should asks the devs to run the numbers and see where and when /SR falls behind and if it's enough to warrant fixes.  Maybe it still performs within their internal goalposts.  I don't know.  And I certainly can't offer any proof  that I'm right.

 

8 hours ago, arcane said:

The only change that could possibly relieve your mid-game problem, while also NOT buffing a top tier endgame powerset, is reordering the powers.

That's false.  But more importantly, you're subscribing to a fallacy.  That being that whatever marginal increase that might happen at lvl 50, outweighs the benefit of /SR being middle of the pack.  That fallacy includes an assumption that the level 50 improvement would be substantive.  You have no way to understand the degree that any non +DEF change made to /SR would impact lvl 50.  Let me repeat that for emphasis.  You have no idea what the impact would be to lvl 50 if, for example, Practiced Brawler provided an incombat Endo boost, or an out of combat boost to +Regen.   And I'm betting we could add those changes to lvl 50 an 93% of the player base wouldn't even notice it, with that number rising to 99.9% for people who didn't have the attribute monitor open to those stats. 

 

8 hours ago, arcane said:

You don’t get to say only the mid-game is the problem so let’s buff the already-overpowered endgame. So all of your other proposals can be immediately ruled out for not being appropriately targeted at the only actual problem area.

The problem with your statement here, and many like them, is you don't actually understand the nature of the problem.  And I'm not saying I know it all either, I definitely do not.   But many of your statements are fundamentally incorrect.  I know that comes across as incendiary and arguably asinine, but this line of discussion gets old.  Instead of actually trying to understand the problem, you're looking for a way to misrepresent things I've said to try and "win" the debate. I never said only the "mid-game" is the problem, but don't let the truth interrupt your narrative.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Blackjoy

[Blackjoy]

8 hours ago, Brutal Justice said:

I bring it up when I just happen upon a discussion where someone like @Blackjoy is recognizing the situation and theory crafting how to fix it all on their own.  They’re basically talking about doing the same thing just using different terminology.

I haven't read any of your previous posts on the topic and I don't recall this ever coming up on Live, but I Ieft sometime around 2007, so it's entirely possible that it was discussed.   And this thread is the first time I've actually contemplated this type of change and that is entirely due to coming up with a way to "fix" /Regen without screwing it up or devoting a supercomputer to the problem.  Or more accurately trying to determine why people perceive /Regen to be weak.

 

 

8 hours ago, Brutal Justice said:

The basis of my argument has always been that the ability for every archetype to reach softcap is grossly unbalanced.  

It's an interesting development.  Clearly an oversight on the part of the original developers or an acceptance of unavoidable evil?  Someone said they thought the developers didn't understand the math....I don't know if I agree with that.  The 75% RES cap for scrappers says they must have had some concept.  Scrappers already have less hit points than Tanks, so lowering the RES cap suggests advanced knowledge and purpose.  However, it's possible that not everyone who knew was involved in all the decisions.

 

What is also perplexing is that the +DEF is capped given there is a to-hit floor.... Why? If you're going to let someone get 200% +DEF, why even cap it?  What is the cap even doing for the game at those numbers? Is it a byproduct of the Inspiration system and needing to cap them?

 

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Blackjoy

[Gamlain]

1 hour ago, Blackjoy said:

What is also perplexing is that the +DEF is capped given there is a to-hit floor.... Why? If you're going to let someone get 200% +DEF, why even cap it?  What is the cap even doing for the game at those numbers? Is it a byproduct of the Inspiration system and needing to cap them?

You. Don't understand why a value has a cap...in a computer game.

I'm sorry, any possible credit you may have been extended for knowing even vaguely what you are talking about just evaporated.

 

I'll just be over here howling with laughter.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, Blackjoy said:

Not exactly.  /SR's problem is that it needs other forms of mitigation.  The scaling resists tend to fail in the same situation when /SR's +DEF fails.   When I made my thread asking the Dev's to look into it, I finally got people to at least admit, indirectly, that /SR has problems when you aren't capping +DEF.   Specifically people conceded the mid-game is a prolem because  encounters start hitting you with more AoE in the 30's.  But by the 40's, people (especially those who are on these forums) have started completing their builds and /SR's problems are masked.  The virtues of soft capping easily overcompensatesfor /SR's inherent issues.

 

Getting a powerset to its caps is a good thing for that powerset and should be a player's goal for that build. What an amazing insight.

 

Edit: I mean, REALLY... NONE of us figured this out back in the pre-ED/GDN days with our permalude builds. Right?

Edited July 8, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[ScarySai]

6 hours ago, Gobbledygook said:

I see Wolvie as more WP than Regen.

 

Wolvie's an example of giving a regen player resist cap and tanker values.

 

Was getting his ass whooped until that adamantium infusion.

 

Also, yeah - the time for your nerf idea was roughly a decade ago, BJ. Right now it would just be stupid to even humor making that a reality.

Edited July 8, 2022 by ScarySai

[Zepp]

On 5/1/2022 at 12:57 PM, kelika2 said:

I never went full blown maximum +rech on a regen before.  To anyone who has done it, is it worth it?

Just a reminder, this is where the thread started.

This thread has been on the verge of being sent over to the Suggestions forum for a minute now, but I think that the answer to the initial question is:

Regen is a different type of armor set than any other set and many people enjoy it. That being said, do not expect to perform as well as other armor sets when solo and out of insps. But if you got a pocketful of purples or a team, it can be a strong set.

There are several ideas to improve the set that would require the Holy Hand of the Almighty Dev to put into place.

Also, SR feels godlike until that one-hit kill attack slips past your almighty defenses and you go from 100% health to faceplant, an experience that Regen players know all about... [Regen & Scaling Resists matter naught if you are one-shotted]

[Zepp]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

 

Wolvie's an example of giving a regen player resist cap and tanker values.

 

Was getting his ass whooped until that adamantium infusion.

 

Also, yeah - the time for your nerf idea was roughly a decade ago, BJ. Right now it would just be stupid to even humor making that a reality.

I think Wolvie looked over at Batman's build and decided to draw heavily from the "Plot Armor" pool to improve his survivability...

[Troo]

2 hours ago, Zepp said:

But if you got a pocketful of purples or a team, it can be a strong set.

 

If this is your honest opinion, you might be doing it wrong.

 

If some feel it is in last place for secondaries, okay, but it is not by a huge insurmountable amount,

[Zepp]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

 

If this is your honest opinion, you might be doing it wrong.

 

If some feel it is in last place for secondaries, okay, but it is not by a huge insurmountable amount,

It is workable, and I do well with it. That being said, my experience does not appear to be the norm. I don't generally use insps and I mainly solo. Regen is definitely solid (if well built) even without relying on the bevy of OS buttons provided. But it is not on par with the other armor sets.