Make super strength great again

[biostem]

8 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

I'm not using any version of it

Then you seem to have found a solution that works for you.  Congrats!

 

8 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

I deliberately avoid playing the game in ways that encourage not alt-tabbing as the most viable use of time

Aren't you being a little hyperbolic, here.  I mean, if you're playing a video game anyway, then you probably don't have "real issues" that need your attention, (or at least, I hope that's the case).  Have you considered taunting the enemies and just waiting the additional 8-seconds or so, or filled that time with some of the prestige attacks or perhaps other powers at your disposal?

Edited May 25, 2022 by biostem

[Lazarillo]

  

1 minute ago, biostem said:

Have you considered taunting the enemies and just waiting the additional 8-seconds or so, or filled that time with some of the prestige attacks or perhaps other powers at your disposal?

I don't need to taunt enemies.  They'd be there when I get back.  I don't want to clutter my power tray with powers that do minimal damage and usually miss anyway; they don't offer anything meaningful over spamming 0-damage attacks.  And no, it's not going to be major issues I'd take care of during a crash, but I can change up my music playlist, swap to Discord and reply to a message, refill a drink, whatever.  I'll accomplish as much in terms of CoH engagement by doing that, as if I had just whiffed an enemy with Sands of Mu and then stared at the screen for a bit.

 

If SS wasn't such a "baseline" concept, and if the set wasn't so far behind the curve as to actually feel notably weak while skipping Rage, it'd be one thing.  Or if the power had just, y'know, gotten buffed like it was meant to if not for (ironically, given accusations being made at me) the power gamers whining about not getting to double-stack it, it'd be more tolerable.  But it's a bummer that it was so close to being worth playing, but instead, we get the kinda wet noodle that is the set in its current form.

[Sovera]

24 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

How many missions have Pylons in them?  Pylon testing is ok and all, however it is not necessarily normal gameplay.  I would agree SS is not up to par with other sets unless you double stack Rage.  SS simply does not compare to a set like EM in my opinion.  Not even close.

 

 Pylons are a metric, flawed as it may be. At least we know how much damage gets done. But chasing the maximum better pylon time has ruined the concept of testing a build since it's all about stacking -res procs and effects despite the minimal effect they have in regular gameplay.

 

As for 'unless double stacked', double stacked is the normal way it goes in any minimally IO slotted build that has Hasten in. It's not chased, it just happens on its own, and actually requires an effort on the part of the user in not letting it double stack.

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Lazarillo said:

If SS wasn't such a "baseline" concept, and if the set wasn't so far behind the curve as to actually feel notably weak while skipping Rage, it'd be one thing.  Or if the power had just, y'know, gotten buffed like it was meant to if not for (ironically, given accusations being made at me) the power gamers whining about not getting to double-stack it, it'd be more tolerable.  But it's a bummer that it was so close to being worth playing, but instead, we get the kinda wet noodle that is the set in its current form.

But the concept of a character going into a berserker rage, followed by a subsequent recoup time afterward, is pretty "baseline" as well...

[ShardWarrior]

37 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Pylons are a metric, flawed as it may be. At least we know how much damage gets done.

 

Sure, we know how much damage is done against a Pylon which is not really normal game play conditions.

[Sovera]

2 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

Sure, we know how much damage is done against a Pylon which is not really normal game play conditions.

 

Did you miss the part where I mentioned -two- tests, one of which is 'normal game play conditions'?

[ShardWarrior]

Just now, Sovera said:

Did you miss the part where I mentioned -two- tests, one of which is 'normal game play conditions'?

 

No, I was only addressing the part regarding Pylon testing. 

[Sovera]

1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

No, I was only addressing the part regarding Pylon testing. 

 

But you seem stuck that one test is game play conditions and the other is a DPS test, and that the DPS test is not a gameplay conditions test.

 

Yes, you are correct.

[ShardWarrior]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

EM is not the measuring stick you use for balance though. Again, there can be only one best, so citing the best is not useful. Balance must occur around averages, not extremes.

 

EM is part of the overall equation though.  You have to take it into account.  I would partially agree that comparing the two one on one is a mismatch.  However, on average SS does not measure up to other sets in my opinion.

[ShardWarrior]

1 minute ago, Sovera said:

But you seem stuck that one test is game play conditions and the other is a DPS test, and that the DPS test is not a gameplay conditions test.

 

Yes, you are correct.

 

I am not stuck on anything really.  I agree with you otherwise.

[PeregrineFalcon]

3 hours ago, Lazarillo said:

You're not entirely wrong: I think that if SS is the only set that is penalized with mandatory downtime, it should also be comparably ahead-of-the-curve.  But I've said in the past that if they wanted to, say, nerf Titan Weapons so that it did 0 damage on any attack that built Momentum, that would at least balance things, for example.

I do agree with you, and I've said this in other threads, that the developers should at least post on the forums what they want to do with Rage. Even if it's just to tell us that they will never touch it. I wouldn't like that response, but at least then we'd know.

 

Personally, I think they should just delete Rage, put an actual attack in its place, and adjust the damage on all of the attacks so that Super Strength's DPS is roughly equal to the current version of Titan Weapons. Then they could port it to Scrappers without a problem.

 

They'll never do that of course because the forum rage would be epic.

 

Failing that they should just change Rage to a toggle for Brutes and Tanks and the version ported to Scrappers should just have Build Up.

 

Once again they're not going to do that because the forum rage would be epic.

 

So we're stuck where we're at now. As long as we can double stack Rage it's going to have a crash, which is fine as is.

[krj12]

I'd have no problems with another attack in place of rage, as long as the base damage level of all attacks is brought in line with other sets.

 

Perhaps a consolation "prize" would be to allow hand clap to at least do minor damage, and allow melee IO sets so that it could be properly proc'ed out.

 

[Rudra]

I have a dumb question: My brute with Rage also has Unrelenting. And I turn Unrelenting on when Rage starts flashing. Does Unrelenting affect Rage's damage crash? Would that be why my brute keeps doing damage?

[biostem]

19 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I have a dumb question: My brute with Rage also has Unrelenting. And I turn Unrelenting on when Rage starts flashing. Does Unrelenting affect Rage's damage crash? Would that be why my brute keeps doing damage?

Doesn't the rage crash apply like a -9999% damage debuff?  If so, I can't imagine that a pool power ultimate could possibly overcome that.  Best solution woulkd be to get a screenshot of a combat log while you were under the effects of both a rage crash and unrelenting...

[Rudra]

Well, Rage does say Unrelenting mitigates the crash. Guess I'll grab that brute and check.

[Rudra]

Okay, checked. When Rage crashed, footstomp did 27.83 points of smashing damage. And the proc did 337.22 points of smashing damage. So yeah, Rage crashing nose dives my damage, but not 0s it. Unrelenting gives no combat flags other than healing for 41.2 points per tick. So either Rage does not zero the character's damage, or Unrelenting keeps it above zero.

 

Edit: Uhm... I just tried Rage without Unrelenting... and immediately after the crash... I footstomped for 769.33 smashing damage.... My internet connection is unstable right now. So maybe it tracked the stomp as before the crash despite waiting for the blinking icon to finish going away?

Edited May 26, 2022 by Rudra

[arcane]

I played my SS tanker last night for fun. I remain unconvinced that the crash isn’t more or less appropriate to mitigate the exceptional damage the set does between crashes. Furthermore I never felt a compulsion to tab over to another window.

[BZRKR]

On my Super Strength/Electric Brute I monitor my damage bonus and when Rage crashes, the number is a nice and easy to see red.

Often I /em drink while rage-crashed, to stay hydrated.

[Golden Azrael]

On 5/24/2022 at 10:06 PM, BamBam said:

please for the love of statesman, fix super strength.... delete the rage nerf downtime.... rad/fire and spines/fire have been king for long enough. revert the rage debuff and rework handclap into a damage aoe knock up. everyone wants super strength to be good again and at endgame when u are getting 2 or 3 stacks u spend moretime doing 1 damage then u do with the actual damage buff. please and ty. thunderclap and handclap are garbage rework them so they are viable

 

I like Handclap (and 'Thunder Clap') and have both on my respective tanks SS and Electric Melee.  Very useful to put a mob on it's backside.  (I use the Knockdown converter recipe.)  It's mitigation as much as any +HPs button is.  Also, with Handclap.  I did find '1' Dam proc to put in it.  With a Forcefeedback in there?  You have an almost guarantee of proccing that turbo charge.  All in all.  A bomb packed pivot of a power.

 

If I had to improve it?  Moderate damage so it can stack with Foot Stomp.

 

I'm with you on the Rage '10 second of wait.'  (There are things to do and you can swerve it's non-damage with Mu, Incarnate Damage and that dam' proc in Hand Clap.  You can also use taunt and move onto the next mob.)  There are numerous ways to turn this punitive old school nerf into something more positive (see the excellent job the devs did on Energy Melee.)  For me, you could strip out Rage entirely and put in a double hit proc.  With the Rage button, you could put in another attack?  Or replace Rage with a 'Builder/Domi' 'builder' style button (an idea Captain PowerHouse had...) and once it pops you get uninterrupted Damage and To Hit boost for 2 mins.  Lots of ways to do it.  I'm looking forward to seeing what HC Devs come up with.

 

And probably, the devs are going to look at more than 'fixing' the Rage nerf and more thoroughly address SS.  It's old.  It could do with a complete refresh.  The damage is very so-so on the 1st three tier attacks.  No high damage in there.  Then you get KO which is extreme.  It all feels a touch imbalanced to me.  Super KO, Hand Clap and Foot Stomp are the highlights for me and something to build on.  

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

On 5/26/2022 at 1:28 AM, krj12 said:

I'd have no problems with another attack in place of rage, as long as the base damage level of all attacks is brought in line with other sets.

 

Perhaps a consolation "prize" would be to allow hand clap to at least do minor damage, and allow melee IO sets so that it could be properly proc'ed out.

 

 

*nods.  It's a thought I had.  Just bring up the base dam' of the attacks in line with all the other sets for starters.  HC, at least minor.  (You can fit a dam proc' in it now and that does make a difference...)  Probably 'moderate' damage for me to give it a one-two AOE punch with Foot Stomp.

 

There are plenty of melee style attacks eg. in Radiation Melee.  Pinching one of those could give SS an extra attack.  It could be a special attack to act as a 'click' to initiate a sustained period of to hit and dam in much the same way as the dark build up (from dark melee/dark armour) sets do.  Could be a Rage build attack.

 

There's lots of ways to go at it.  There's excitement in the possibilities.

 

Azrael.

[MoonSheep]

On 5/24/2022 at 11:38 PM, BamBam said:

nah super strength is garbage fully io in all content. its not a debate. if your worried about the stacking cap it. but doing 1 damage for 5 -15 seconds feels awful. why is it everytime someone posts you get people who dont main the classes we are talking about responding. damage % is already capped and is hard DR'd just get rid of the nerf so super strength feels good again. no body cares if something is 2 strong . some of these other powersets need buffed to match double pbaoe auras. and in pvp its nerfed bc everyone can pretty much get to cap on smashing resis and def. please fix it and make it fun for those of us who have very fond memorys of running around TV farm footstomping. farming was always the endgame stop acting like it isnt. please and ty

 

u ok hun?

[ForeverLaxx]

I personally don't like that the entire set has to be "balanced" around Double-Stacked Rage, and even when it is, it's apparently only in the realm of other "high tier" sets that don't have to deal with Rage's mechanics and downsides. If you're not stacking Rage, then the set is anemic outside of Foot Stomp. Which, by the way, is another issue I have with the set -- it seems much of the set's power comes from two powers and the rest of it, except perhaps Knockout Blow, doesn't feel like "super strength."

 

Doesn't Boxing still perform better than Jab, or did that get changed? I don't really like Super Strength's feast or famine gameplay system so I've never used it, but I hear this point touted about it all the time.

[arcane]

I don't really understand how there could be so many people running around unable to double stack Rage unless we're talking about a "purely for sub-50's" argument. It takes almost nothing to get there unless you're both skipping Hasten and refusing to slot Rage.

[krj12]

I've never double stacked rage, simply because I don't want to deal with double the amount of down time.  It's very annoying.

 

[Rudra]

I've never double stacked rage because I never saw a need to and was told that was not a defense against the crash any more.