Make super strength great again

[Supertanker]

If you really want to add more AoE damage to Super Strength- instead of Handclap I'd make Hurl a Ranged AoE, just because it looks weird throwing a big rock into a crowd and only hitting one guy.

[SwitchFade]

Is it Sunday?

[Golden Azrael]

On 5/30/2022 at 12:31 AM, Supertanker said:

If you really want to add more AoE damage to Super Strength- instead of Handclap I'd make Hurl a Ranged AoE, just because it looks weird throwing a big rock into a crowd and only hitting one guy.

 

Good point on the rock into mob idea.  Have it 'ker-POW' like a mini-meteor power.  You lob a rock like that into a group and you'd expect some knockback and splash damage?

 

In addition.  I'd like to see Handclap promoted to moderate damage.

Azrael.

[The General]

On 5/24/2022 at 7:32 PM, Sovera said:

'Adrenaline' is a good concept, but it can be called whatever. Even 'Seriousness' (but it does not roll off the tongue) because even Super-man or Goku will invariably start the fight with taps and as they realize the enemy is not being defeated they up the strength of their blows. So it's less Hulk raging and more 'oh, okay, you're not stopping, but you're also not dying, so it's safe to hit you harder'.

 

Wait. Wait wait wait. Are you freaking telling me we could legit have an ability called "World of Cardboard"?

 

FUND.

IT.

[Captain Citadel]

Haven't posted on these forums in quite some time but just wanted to drop in my two cents. I still think Super Strength needs a rework to remove the damage crash on Rage, it does not feel good. I'd even support replacing Rage with something else. Doesn't really feel good to be under the "Impotent Nerd Rage" debuff and pretty much only be able to taunt and drop Mighty Judgement. If I'm exemplared down, then all I can do is taunt and hope one of my damage procs maybe goes off.

I really like the more passive "Adrenaline" or "World Made of Cardboard" version that others have suggested, where the power is slightly weaker but can ramp up over time and stay there for the duration of a fight.

Also while we're on the subject of Super Strength fixes, can we maybe get some minor/moderate hybrid Energy/Smashing (Sonic) damage added to Hand Clap for better AoE? I think Hurl needs to be revisited as well. I'm kind of ambivalent about giving Hurl a Targeted AoE effect, but wouldn't be opposed obviously because the set needs more AoE somewhere. But my main issue with Hurl is that it's completely incompatible with flying. I'm not suggesting it should be able to conjure up a chunk of rock from nowhere, but I would like it to have the same "flags" that powers like Foot Stomp or Mighty Judgement already use, where they will work if you are close enough to a floor to touch it.
 

[Gobbledigook]

I think the developers have an opportunity to create a slightly different Super Strength version for Scrappers etc. Not every set that gets ported is the same. If that version becomes the preferred then maybe make it so across all AT's.

 

But it can't harm putting out a Scrapper version for us to test with out Rage or Rage crashes.

 

I think the set needs an early cone type power either in hurl or Hand clap or something else. Some of the numbers probably need adjusting like Jab etc.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[Haijinx]

As always, the greatness of Rage is under-reported.

 

The inconvienece of the crashes are over reported. 

 

Think we have done this thread before.  

[Herotu]

On 5/24/2022 at 11:38 PM, BamBam said:

nah super strength is garbage fully io in all content. its not a debate. if your worried about the stacking cap it. but doing 1 damage for 5 -15 seconds feels awful. 

Yep. I dumped Rage. The downside isn't worth it. 🙂

[Troo]

3 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

I think the developers have an opportunity to create a slightly different Super Strength version for Scrappers etc. Not every set that gets ported is the same. If that version becomes the preferred then maybe make it so across all AT's.

 

But it can't harm putting out a Scrapper version for us to test with out Rage or Rage crashes.

 

I think the set needs an early cone type power either in hurl or foot stomp or something else. Some of the numbers probably need adjusting like Jab etc.

 

 

Making a new powerset would be more prudent as your stated goal is to then propagate it to existing ATs which have existing players and characters.

[Gobbledigook]

43 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

Making a new powerset would be more prudent as your stated goal is to then propagate it to existing ATs which have existing players and characters.

I think it could port easily.

Rage is an issue but the rest isn't too bad. Just come up with a new rage and call it something else for Scrappers etc like Rampage or something.

It could do with a cone attack early in the set for some earlier AoE. Hand clap could be the damaging cone attack, being a directed cone.

Hurl isn't great but other sets have the same, except Dom's is better. Just reduce the activation time on it (SM also) to the same as Dominators 1.5 seconds.

 

The rest isn't too bad other than to tweak the numbers here and there.

[Supertanker]

My Super Strength for Scrappers:

 

Punch

Haymaker

Smash (cone attack, Energy Transfer animation)

Build Up

KO Blow (or different name, should be weaker version)

Confront

Handclap

Hurl

Footstomp

[Rudra]

On 6/12/2022 at 10:48 AM, Gobbledegook said:

I think it could port easily.

Rage is an issue but the rest isn't too bad. Just come up with a new rage and call it something else for Scrappers etc like Rampage or something.

It could do with a cone attack early in the set for some earlier AoE. Hand clap could be the damaging cone attack, being a directed cone.

Hurl isn't great but other sets have the same, except Dom's is better. Just reduce the activation time on it (SM also) to the same as Dominators 1.5 seconds.

 

The rest isn't too bad other than to tweak the numbers here and there.

People get too hung up on the name of a power some times. The way Rage works, it works as Adrenaline Rush for characters that push themselves farther (and the crash is the adrenaline surge wearing off or not keeping up with the body's demands), Steroids for characters with a chemical boost concept (with the crash being the obvious chemical crash), Channel Power for mystic type or avatar type characters (with the crash being the overwhelming power you are channeling/drawing over-taxing your body), and so forth. Rage as a name is just that, a name. If the concern is the name, then just call it whatever you want for your character concept. The power has to have a name, and it happens to be Rage, but the concept of the power is not limited to raging.

 

On 6/12/2022 at 6:11 AM, Gobbledegook said:

I think the developers have an opportunity to create a slightly different Super Strength version for Scrappers etc. Not every set that gets ported is the same. If that version becomes the preferred then maybe make it so across all AT's.

 

But it can't harm putting out a Scrapper version for us to test with out Rage or Rage crashes.

 

I think the set needs an early cone type power either in hurl or foot stomp or something else. Some of the numbers probably need adjusting like Jab etc.

If you want a different power set, then ask for a different power set. Especially as @Troo pointed out, you are also talking about proliferating it to ATs that already have Super Strength.

[Vanden]

On 6/12/2022 at 12:48 PM, Gobbledegook said:

I think it could port easily.

Rage is an issue but the rest isn't too bad. Just come up with a new rage and call it something else for Scrappers etc like Rampage or something.

 

Did it

[Gobbledigook]

6 hours ago, Rudra said:

People get too hung up on the name of a power some times. The way Rage works, it works as Adrenaline Rush for characters that push themselves farther (and the crash is the adrenaline surge wearing off or not keeping up with the body's demands), Steroids for characters with a chemical boost concept (with the crash being the obvious chemical crash), Channel Power for mystic type or avatar type characters (with the crash being the overwhelming power you are channeling/drawing over-taxing your body), and so forth. Rage as a name is just that, a name. If the concern is the name, then just call it whatever you want for your character concept. The power has to have a name, and it happens to be Rage, but the concept of the power is not limited to raging.

 

If you want a different power set, then ask for a different power set. Especially as @Troo pointed out, you are also talking about proliferating it to ATs that already have Super Strength.

You are over thinking it lol. None of that is what i actually said.

I never asked for a different powerset. I said slightly as in SS but with a few small changes/improvements like rage and a cone etc.

A name is a name i don't really care. But i doubt Rage will be ported to scrappers as it is hence they may change it and call it something else.

 

I stated in the beginning that "It could port easily". Not "this is a completely new powerset", which would not be easy..

Edited June 18, 2022 by Gobbledegook

[Captain Citadel]

I have a bad feeling that Super Strength getting ported to Scrappers is going to be similar to Invuln getting ported to Sentinels. It'll be a better-optimized version of the set without Rage, and being stuck with Rage will feel worse than it does now. To make up for the damage loss from lack of Rage, I could easily see them giving Hurl a targeted AoE, and/or giving Hand Clap some Sonic damage too. They'll probably give it T1 Punch as well.

I'd still like to know why Hurl can't be used with a flight power if you're touching a floor, while Foot Stomp and Mighty Judgement can. Not everyone is going to automatically want to slot Gloom or Laser Beam Eyes into our builds. Not every Invuln/SS Tanker wants to copy Superman so exactly that they'll slot for heat vision.

[Vanden]

15 minutes ago, Captain Citadel said:

I'd still like to know why Hurl can't be used with a flight power if you're touching a floor, while Foot Stomp and Mighty Judgement can.

 

'Cause there's no aerial animation for it.

[Rudra]

6 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

You are over thinking it lol. None of that is what i actually said.

I never asked for a different powerset. I said slightly as in SS but with a few small changes/improvements like rage and a cone etc.

A name is a name i don't really care. But i doubt Rage will be ported to scrappers as it is hence they may change it and call it something else.

 

I stated in the beginning that "It could port easily". Not "this is a completely new powerset", which would not be easy..

 

On 6/12/2022 at 6:11 AM, Gobbledegook said:

I think the developers have an opportunity to create a slightly different Super Strength version for Scrappers etc. Not every set that gets ported is the same. If that version becomes the preferred then maybe make it so across all AT's.

The bold part is what I fixated on. You said to create a different version for Scrappers. Okay, check. Scrappers and Stalkers typically have a modified version of the Tankers and Brutes attack sets. Then followed up with "maybe make it so across all ATs". That is asking for proliferation. There are players out there that like Super Strength as is. So either you are asking for them to no longer have it on their already existing characters, or you are asking for there to be another power set that is similar. I am inclined to think the latter since I am hoping that you would not ask to take a power set away from those already using it. Regardless of how similar it may be.

 

If you are proposing another option than set replacement or alternate set proliferation, then please explain because I am not seeing a third option.

[Supertanker]

13 hours ago, Supertanker said:

Smash (cone attack, Energy Transfer animation)

 

Oops, I meant the Total Focus (and Thunder Strike) animation. It has Super Strength feel to it.

[Captain Citadel]

9 minutes ago, Vanden said:

 

'Cause there's no aerial animation for it.

Could they not just use the normal animation then? As far as I can tell, Foot Stomp and Mighty Judgement aren't animated differently while flying, because you have to be at ground level or otherwise standing on a floor for them to go off. It just feels like an oversight that this one "ground attack" can't be used with a flight power while two others can.

[Vanden]

18 minutes ago, Captain Citadel said:

Could they not just use the normal animation then?

 

I don't think there's anything you can "just" do with CoH's complicated animation system.

 

18 minutes ago, Captain Citadel said:

As far as I can tell, Foot Stomp and Mighty Judgement aren't animated differently while flying, because you have to be at ground level or otherwise standing on a floor for them to go off.

 

They definitely have different animations for being used while flying.

[Gobbledigook]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

 

The bold part is what I fixated on. You said to create a different version for Scrappers. Okay, check. Scrappers and Stalkers typically have a modified version of the Tankers and Brutes attack sets. Then followed up with "maybe make it so across all ATs". That is asking for proliferation. There are players out there that like Super Strength as is. So either you are asking for them to no longer have it on their already existing characters, or you are asking for there to be another power set that is similar. I am inclined to think the latter since I am hoping that you would not ask to take a power set away from those already using it. Regardless of how similar it may be.

 

If you are proposing another option than set replacement or alternate set proliferation, then please explain because I am not seeing a third option.

"slightly"

 

There are players that like it as is, i am on if them, doesn't mean it can't be improved so even more like it. I mentioned my ideas in this after if you could read them also.

 

Rage crash is an issue i think most will agree and an extra early cone would go nicely as the set lacks AoE until footstomp which is late coming.

 

A version without Rage crashes would be worth investigating. Rage does seem to be a big factor in this set being proliferated to Scrappers/stalkers etc. But Rage should stay as is for now on Tankers/Brutes unless a new version is created and preferred by everyone.

 

 

[SwitchFade]

These threads always amuse me. My main is an inv/ss and I didn't take rage until 49, because....Tank.

 

SS is just fine without it, really. Many, many people have run comparative analyses vs other seats without rage on and it's fine. Honestly, I never really needed it from 1-49, even at +4/8. Is it nice? Sure, moar dmges is moar.

 

 

[arcane]

12 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

These threads always amuse me. My main is an inv/ss and I didn't take rage until 49, because....Tank.

 

SS is just fine without it, really. Many, many people have run comparative analyses vs other seats without rage on and it's fine. Honestly, I never really needed it from 1-49, even at +4/8. Is it nice? Sure, moar dmges is moar.

 

 

The analyses in question seems to only highlight that Punch has T1 damage and Jab has even less and Hurl and Hand Clap are meh - the fact that Haymaker, Knockout Blow, and Foot Stomp are perfectly well balanced (and are just about all you ever really need) tends to get conveniently shoved under the rug.

I have zero problems believing an SS could function just fine without Rage if absolutely necessary to sate RP concerns like those of the local vampyr. Of course you’re missing out IMO but oh well.

[kelika2]

Just play StJ

[Vanden]

9 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Just play StJ

 

But StJ is bad on non-Stalkers