Give Doms and Trollers pets at a lower level, say 12 or so

[kelika2]

11 hours ago, Rudra said:

We're done. You're obviously trolling the forums.

Brow beating is its own form of trolling

[arcane]

15 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Brow beating is its own form of trolling

Except nobody is doing that and he’s not the only one that can’t find a shred of consistency in battlewraith’s arguments.

 

(I had to google the definition of brow beating to be sure, but yep no sign of that)

Edited June 29, 2022 by arcane

[Naraka]

On 6/27/2022 at 8:20 PM, Sovera said:

 

MMs are a buff/damage class. Controllers are a CC/buff class. Someone who wants to play a CC class should not need to be dragging their bare feet over broken glass because their damage is pitiful.

 

 

Why not? Why is Controller special in that it should do acceptable damage on top of excellent support and control?  There are also solutions now that a Controller can use to do better damage and it's called taking/slotting attacks.  You can even just proc out a hold to turn it into a blast.

 

It's not even that I disagree that moving the pets down the pool list is bad, I just think suggesting a CC/buff AT is entitled to better damage when neither of its primary or secondary are for damage.  And sure, you can outline the philosophy that every AT needs to be able to solo but that too falls flat because they already can. Just because they solo slower doesn't justify anything when they can also do it safer. Then there's other points such as power leveling being so popular, IOs, the changes to their inherent powers over time, P2W vendor attacks and so on that have bridged that gap in damage for Controllers but for someone somewhere nothing will ever be enough until they are practically a blaster with a full set of controls (like /plant and /TA Blasters for a while there). 

 

All in all, I think another server tried giving Controllers their pets at lvl 1 and it didn't cause the game to implode. You could probably put this suggestion in the "eh, if it changes it changes but it's certainly not necessary" box.

[Naraka]

On 6/28/2022 at 9:36 AM, battlewraith said:

 

I think this results in three things: 1. People are discouraged from posting suggestions. 2. People are turned off by the community. 3. To the extent that suggestions matter at all, the game design is steared towards a samey-same paint by the numbers orthodoxy.

 

I think it's the opposite on that last one. With suggestions and feedback from players, a lot of instituted changes have been to shift powers and powersets into a homogenous paint-by-numbers orthodoxy. That's how you got your snipes being just blasts with an opener option, same with your Energy Melee/Dark Melee, and a lot of the other changes to ATs too. Sure, to some, they are great changes that a lot of people like but they end up just making every set more the same with just different coats of paint.

 

This suggestion isn't any different. You just want the opposing NPCs and your soloing experience to have as simplest smoothest an on-rails escalator to the top as possible. No bumps. No detours. No struggling with weather or anything. Just a samey-same paint by the numbers trip from 1 to 50 with no notable conflicts or points of interest on the way. No desperation and relief when you get that one power that mitigates your END problems. No sudden shift in power now that you have access to SOs instead of DOs. It'll just be the same trip you've taken dozens upon dozens of times before...but easier.

[Sovera]

21 minutes ago, Naraka said:

 

Why not? Why is Controller special in that it should do acceptable damage on top of excellent support and control?  There are also solutions now that a Controller can use to do better damage and it's called taking/slotting attacks.  You can even just proc out a hold to turn it into a blast.

 

It's not even that I disagree that moving the pets down the pool list is bad, I just think suggesting a CC/buff AT is entitled to better damage when neither of its primary or secondary are for damage.  And sure, you can outline the philosophy that every AT needs to be able to solo but that too falls flat because they already can. Just because they solo slower doesn't justify anything when they can also do it safer. Then there's other points such as power leveling being so popular, IOs, the changes to their inherent powers over time, P2W vendor attacks and so on that have bridged that gap in damage for Controllers but for someone somewhere nothing will ever be enough until they are practically a blaster with a full set of controls (like /plant and /TA Blasters for a while there). 

 

All in all, I think another server tried giving Controllers their pets at lvl 1 and it didn't cause the game to implode. You could probably put this suggestion in the "eh, if it changes it changes but it's certainly not necessary" box.

 

Because the game will not implode if people who pick Controller can solo a bit better in the early levels. The suggestion is not to buff Controllers beyond what they currently have, only that instead of waiting until 32 they can start soloing a bit better from level 1.

 

The convoluted mental gymnastics in this thread can be boiled down 'I suffered soloing until 32 without a pet so everyone should too'.

[Naraka]

1 minute ago, Sovera said:

 

Because the game will not implode if people who pick Controller can solo a bit better in the early levels. The suggestion is not to buff Controllers beyond what they currently have, only that instead of waiting until 32 they can start soloing a bit better from level 1.

 

The convoluted mental gymnastics in this thread can be boiled down 'I suffered soloing until 32 without a pet so everyone should too'.

 

As @dangeraaron10 mentioned before, those pets aren't really going to do much regardless of if you get them at 32 or 1 (well maybe it will pre-10 but I'd argue no one needs help pre-10...or are you?).

 

And you think 'I suffered soloing until 32 without a pet so everyone should too' is convoluted? No, that's called playing a video game. What kind of entitled bullshit is this to think we need to just start implemented cheatcodes for everyone?  Oh wait, that's just the standard course of video games now.  If you want to solo faster on a Controller, proc out your hold, pick up an attack, use those SOs and change your difficulty setting.

[Naraka]

On 6/28/2022 at 10:02 AM, kelika2 said:

 

Probably because those sets dont synergize well.  my earth/thermal is great because the stone pet hits hard and can take a hit, and that was before thermal buffs.  and with jack frost, hes just ok.  -rech and -spd is super easy to cap out.  arctic air + jack's embrace is already overkill unless something resists it like a werewolf.  dont roll ice/cold btw

 

Forge is only available at level 28. So you want to move that lower too? 

 

[EDIT] i clarify, I don't think there's a damage difference for the earth pet, prior to level lvl23 at least, whether you picked /FF or /thermal.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Naraka

[arcane]

 

43 minutes ago, Sovera said:

The convoluted mental gymnastics in this thread can be boiled down 'I suffered soloing until 32 without a pet so everyone should too'.

Nobody has to suffer in this game. It’s consistently easy if you but use the resources available. Some of us just don’t want the experience cheapened even further than it already is. 

[Sovera]

19 minutes ago, arcane said:

 

Nobody has to suffer in this game. It’s consistently easy if you but use the resources available. Some of us just don’t want the experience cheapened even further than it already is. 

 

How virtuous.

[Rudra]

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

 

Because the game will not implode if people who pick Controller can solo a bit better in the early levels. The suggestion is not to buff Controllers beyond what they currently have, only that instead of waiting until 32 they can start soloing a bit better from level 1.

 

The convoluted mental gymnastics in this thread can be boiled down 'I suffered soloing until 32 without a pet so everyone should too'.

Controllers have a crowd control set and a buff set. Nowhere do they have a damage set despite their crowd control abilities doing damage. That is where the power pools come in. There are actual attacks whose sole purpose is inflicting damage. Even if a player takes every power from their primary and secondary, that is 18 total powers. Out of 24. With points in leveling progression where there are no primary or secondary powers to pick from. Grab an attack or two from the power pools. Suddenly, you will find that soloing as a controller is both laughably easy and surprisingly quick.

 

Wait... that would require players to use the power pools though! They might even have to give up either the Fighting pool, the Leadership pool, the Speed pool, or the Leaping pool! Except that the Speed and Leaping pools include damage focused attacks in them. Hmm....

 

Edit: (After re-reading @Naraka's post) I didn't even think of that. The P2W vendor gives everyone 3 free dedicated damage power choices. So dipping into a pool for an attack isn't even necessary. Just use the P2W prestige attacks.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Rudra

[battlewraith]

15 hours ago, Rudra said:

We're done. You're obviously trolling the forums

 

Here we go again.

1. The Diva exit. Instead of just leaving, you announce it. 

2. Cherry pick some comments that you obviously don't understand in order to support a point that is irrelevant.

3. Deflect criticism of your posts by appealing to the fact that feedback is encouraged. Then turnaround and call feedback that you don't like trolling. Can't have it both ways kiddo. 

Furthermore, I generally try to avoid you if possible. You're tedious as hell and other people have signaled the same thing. Nonetheless, you think this your little debate headquarters so you have to apparently weigh in on everything. Fine, but don't get butthurt and whine about trolling when you respond to a comment I'm making to someone else and it doesn't play out the way you expected.

[battlewraith]

3 hours ago, Naraka said:

This suggestion isn't any different. You just want the opposing NPCs and your soloing experience to have as simplest smoothest an on-rails escalator to the top as possible. No bumps. No detours. No struggling with weather or anything. Just a samey-same paint by the numbers trip from 1 to 50 with no notable conflicts or points of interest on the way. No desperation and relief when you get that one power that mitigates your END problems. No sudden shift in power now that you have access to SOs instead of DOs. It'll just be the same trip you've taken dozens upon dozens of times before...but easier.

 

Yeah not even close. Hilariously wrong. 

[battlewraith]

4 hours ago, arcane said:

Except nobody is doing that and he’s not the only one that can’t find a shred of consistency in battlewraith’s arguments.

 

I can draw you some venn diagrams if that would help. It's really not that complicated. The primary reason you two probably don't get it is conflating the meaning of things like feedback, debate, review, etc. to a single meaning. And just blowing off other posters. 

 

eg. Browbeating is a form of trolling.

      Nobody's doing that.

 

Ok boss,,,

Edited June 29, 2022 by battlewraith

[arcane]

21 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

 

I can draw you some venn diagrams if that would help. It's really not that complicated. The primary reason you two probably don't get it is conflating the meaning of things like feedback, debate, review, etc. to a single meaning. And just blowing off other posters. 

 

eg. Browbeating is a form of trolling.

      Nobody's doing that.

 

Ok boss,,,

Yeah your limited grasp of English is making this tough, I agree. Like continuing to tell us feedback doesn’t count as feedback. I won’t pretend to understand your own private version of the dictionary.

Edited June 29, 2022 by arcane

[Rudra]

He's just trying to keep the argument going. He never makes any points that have any consistency. The moment you point out anything inconsistent or wrong in what he says, he decides it means anything other than what it obviously does. Just let him rant in a corner.

[kelika2]

14 hours ago, Naraka said:

 

Forge is only available at level 28. So you want to move that lower too? 

 

[EDIT] i clarify, I don't think there's a damage difference for the earth pet, prior to level lvl23 at least, whether you picked /FF or /thermal.

I would not mind Forge and Thaw switching places.  I cant remember the last time someone called out "zzz" ever since they changed that particular insp

[kelika2]

15 hours ago, Naraka said:

Why not? Why is Controller special in that it should do acceptable damage on top of excellent support and control?  There are also solutions now that a Controller can use to do better damage and it's called taking/slotting attacks.  You can even just proc out a hold to turn it into a blast.

Tanks are now great damage

Brutes can be great tanks

Defenders got fire blast

Blasters secondaries protect/heal themselves

The list can go on for how much each AT/sets changed over the years but in a world of extreme burst damage trollers and doms kinda.. bleh

 

Years ago in the single digit issues the old Devs nerfed control powers recharges pretty hard because their main argument was "fighting statues"

And that train of thought just isnt valid anymore because of how much damage people can do these days

I made this thread hoping troll/doms can do more at lower levels without effecting higher levels but got this instead

[Rudra]

My elec/earth dominator ate everything at lower levels. Way faster than my corruptors could typically manage at those levels. And way safer too. It wasn't until my complete lack of enhancements stopped me from progressing that it stopped devouring the map. My plant/psi' dominator took a little longer to get started, but is less dependent on having current enhancements and laughs at team size missions.

 

My ice/storm controller may not be as fast as my other characters, but still manages to pulverize maps in surprisingly good time for being a controller. I admit, this is the only controller I ever made that I enjoy, but it is also the only controller I made that I took pool power attacks on. I'm not a fan of playing support, it bores me to do so. Solo or on team. All it took was a single extra attack, Flurry at 6th level, and suddenly I found a controller I enjoyed running. And rocks solo.

 

Re-arranging the powers by moving the AT's mastery power to early levels? Makes no sense to me. It's like asking to get Inferno at 12th level. And I would rather control what mobs attack me when rather than have an uncontrolled pet running amok before I have the powers to lock everything down. However, grabbing a non-AT attack doesn't seem to be anything you're even willing to consider though, so I don't know how to help you. The tools to play a controller solo and do solid damage already exists. And if you're looking at a team dynamic instead? Then the extra damage on a controller is superfluous.

[MoonSheep]

suggestion: rename this sub-forum to “Text Based PvP”

 

😁

[arcane]

If the logic in this thread is of any value, we have a lot of reordering to do since apparently the best powers need to be accessed earliest in the design visions of a few here. Any form of delayed gratification is oppressive bullying, or something like that.

 

EM needs ET at 1. Kin needs SB and FS by 2. All T9’s must be the set’s most suboptimal power. Let’s do it 🙄

Edited June 30, 2022 by arcane

[kelika2]

3 hours ago, arcane said:

All T9’s must be the set’s most suboptimal power. Let’s do it 🙄

its like that for tanks/brutes/scrappers/stalkers/sents now for the past 15 or so years.

so we know its doable

[battlewraith]

8 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

suggestion: rename this sub-forum to “Text Based PvP”

 

😁

 

Lol. 

 

This sub-forum, and this thread in particular, is analogous to a family get-together with entitled, elderly relatives who have been having the same menu at this event for over a decade.

So somebody comes in one day and suggests that they do something else for the main course. And you get a familiar set of ridiculous responses:

 

"We've always done ham. That means we always should do ham and if you suggest something different you're a selfish jerk who is putting their own interests first...in front of mine."

"You're just doing ham wrong. Ham was never meant to work alone. There's green beans too. They compensate for the ham, why do you think they're there?"

"I've never had a problem with ham."

Uncle Bob's furiously flipping through the dictionary looking for the definition of ham which will no doubt prove him right.

"If we change the ham, we will have to change everything. Because that's logical. To me."

"You just want instant gratification. You want to change the ham to ice cream. Which is bullshit. You have to eat ice cream AFTER you have the ham. Everyone knows this."

"Back in the day, ham was super important. Helped stop the spread of communism and stuff."

"Everybody wants everything too fast now. You have to relive that excitement of having that first savory bite of ham in your mouth...even though we've been eating it for years."

 

Eventually the other relatives come up with excuses not to go to this shindig. And its just this small geriatric mob rocking on their chairs.

"I fuckin love ham. mmmmm."

[TheZag]

I hadnt checked back here for awhile and figured people just had alot to say about pets early.  I was wrong but it has been a fun read anyway.

[eldriyth]

On 6/27/2022 at 10:09 AM, kelika2 said:

I dont want to get super into specifics of every set, but just move around powers and have all AoE holds at level 32 and pets at 12 or 18, halve the recharge of aoe holds to compensate being a level 32 power.  just swap mass confuse for mind trollers with total domination

 

Playing a low level dom or troller is mind numbing.  And please take into consideration on how fast things die in this game vs how often you do use your aoe hold vs how long the hold duration gets used

Thunderspy makes Controller and Dominator pets level 1 and it makes the class so much better to play solo. I think level 12 would be fine and you got my support for this idea.

[eldriyth]

On 6/27/2022 at 10:39 AM, arcane said:

Nah

Great feedback, ignoramus. How about you actually explain yourself and why you dislike the weakest early game ATs to get their pets early? I bet you don't even know why. You're just being argumentative.

Edited July 4, 2022 by eldriyth