Proposal for Regular Content Rewards Buff

[Andreah]

There's been a lot of concern recently voiced in the beta forums about how farming/AE rewards should not be lowered, but rather those from regular content should be increased. 

 

What I propose here is separate from discussion of those page 4 changes. Please discuss those over in the beta forums.

 

I wanted to put an idea out for consideration on how that might be done. I consider "Regular" content to be story arcs, task forces, and street sweeping. I'm not counting radio/newspaper, repeatables, or Ouroboros arcs as regular content. That's fair to discuss, too, I'm sure.

Of course, I am not an HC developer and can't speak to whether these would be easy to implement, difficult, or flat out impossible.

 

First off, I want to define a term, what I call "Bonus Multiplier". We all know you can choose a experience increase from P2W which ranges from no increase (+0%) up to doubling XP (+100%). Our total XP Multiplier is this bonus added to 1. So, when we choose +100%, we're getting our total experience multiplier of "2XP".  

 

 

First off, for Street Sweeping Content, which is defeating any mob in open world content, I would award double the bonus multiplier amount of XP at the moment each mob is defeated.  This would count for XP only and only for non-AVs, non-GMs killed in regular open world zones. There is no influence or drop bonus involved here.

 

Then, I would handle Story Arcs Missions and Task Forces a little differently. While a character is in a mission, I would record the bonus multiplier's worth of experience and influence from each mob defeated on the side for the character, and then award it all in a lump bonus sum at the completion of the mission. This is in addition to whatever experience or influence was normally awarded at the time of defeat of each mob, and even if influence awarded at the moment of defeat was reduced by the base setting, this will add some back at completion.

 

If the mission is not completed, but reset or abandoned, then both totals reset to zero. One could leave the mission and come back into it, so long as the mission internal progress was not reset, the bonuses would be there for award when the mission was actually completed. Autocompleted missions, or missions one was not inside long enough to receive a normal mission completion bonus would receive no multiplier bonus. This will encourage people to not only run missions, but to defeat most of the mobs in them as well.

 

Finally, for each story arc or task force mission completed, provided that mission was not a no-combat "talkie" or "goto", I would award one Reward Merit, regardless of the character's xp bonus setting.

 

This would provide better rewards for content that ought to be the premier content in the game -- story arcs and task forces, provide a boost to encourage people to not just skip over the open world mobs, or to actually sweep in the denser hazard zones, and boost both influence and merit based means of kitting out one's now faster leveling characters.
 

Edited July 15, 2022 by Andreah
Typo.

[Rudra]

5 hours ago, Andreah said:

 

I wanted to put an idea out for consideration on how that might be done. I consider "Regular" content to be story arcs, task forces, and street sweeping. I'm not counting radio/newspaper, repeatables, or Ouroboros arcs as regular content. That's fair to discuss, too, I'm sure.

Ouroboros arcs are the regular story arcs. Unless you are referring specifically to the Ouroboros Initiation arc from the Pilgrim?

 

5 hours ago, Andreah said:

This will encourage people to not only run missions, but to defeat most of the mobs in them as well.

What do you have against stealth characters being stealthy? It's what I hate about kill alls when on a stealth character. May as well not be stealthy and just take a more smash-centered character.

 

5 hours ago, Andreah said:

Finally, for each story arc or task force mission completed, provided that mission was not a no-combat "talkie" or "goto", I would award one Reward Merit, regardless of the character's xp bonus setting.

Absolutely not. It is already ridiculous easy to get reward merits in this game. There are specific arcs people farm to maximize their reward merit acquisition rate. Making reward merits drop for every mission in a story arc or task force/strike force is entirely too much in my opinion.

 

Aside from the initial note in this post and the other two comments, I actually am favorable to this suggestion. It would just mean I would need to keep xp turned off like I already do.

[Andreah]

7 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Ouroboros arcs are the regular story arcs. Unless you are referring specifically to the Ouroboros Initiation arc from the Pilgrim?

I don't count them because they are the repeatable versions of the arcs not run from their in-game acquired contacts.

 

7 minutes ago, Rudra said:

What do you have against stealth characters being stealthy? It's what I hate about kill alls when on a stealth character. May as well not be stealthy and just take a more smash-centered character.

They would be slower to level up than others, but they would get end-of-mission bonus defeat credit for any mobs killed by their own team. Also, stealth character do more missions per hour, and any benefits they get at end of mission would stack up more quickly. Still, this is a good point and it would need some work.

 

7 minutes ago, Rudra said:

It is already ridiculous easy to get reward merits in this game.

This is true, but it also means merits aren't worth very much. A merit is worth 200-250K Inf. What I really like about Merits is they are a pure supply-side hedge against auction price inflation from injecting more influence into the system.  Maybe there would be random recipe roll or small random pile of salvage instead.

  

7 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I would need to keep xp turned off like I already do

I would still want you to get a bonus recipe/salvage at the end of the mission.

 

Edited July 15, 2022 by Andreah

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, Andreah said:

Maybe there would be random recipe roll or small random pile of salvage instead.

Sounds much better to me. Thanks.

[Greycat]

5 minutes ago, Rudra said:

What do you have against stealth characters being stealthy? It's what I hate about kill alls when on a stealth character. May as well not be stealthy and just take a more smash-centered character.

 

I've got to second this point, as well. Not all characters are tanks/brutes/scrappers.  Try to "encourage" me to kill all on my Ice/Emp 'troller? *shudder*  In addition, there are missions such as the ... I forget the name, the one where you verify B'nadek's information and are *specifically told* not to engage patrols or the two boss mobs, just look for four glowies. I *really* kind of wish we had more missions like that, which forced you to pay attention to what you were engaging rather than HULK SMASH everything.

 

Plus - well, COH has always been casual-player-friendly. Hop in, finish a mission at whatever speed you want, go do other stuff... no need to dedicate two hours to a giant endgame raid for a .005% chance of SomethingUBergear.  The main concern I have about this is that it ends up punishing people who just want to hop in, do a little bit of something (versus a clear-all, especially on some of the ridiculously large maps) and leave.  Besides, I'm not sure we need to make leveling *even faster.*

 

*shrugs* Just my two cents.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I'd like to hear the reasoning from the devs on the change before I'll make suggestions, which should be upcoming.  I'd hate to *add* more rewards to this game, either in terms on inf, items, or faster leveling.

[Andreah]

2 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I'd like to hear the reasoning from the devs on the change before I'll make suggestions, which should be upcoming.  I'd hate to *add* more rewards to this game, either in terms on inf, items, or faster leveling.

To be honest, I'd love to see XP globally reduced by about 5x. And maybe life made a little easier for soloers. Team steamrolling is hugely rewarded comparatively.

 

So long as the story completionists can continue to lock their xp at need, ofc.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Andreah

[laudwic]

Personally I would like to see playing of story content encouraged more, maybe some minor reward for a number of non AE Souvenirs. 

 

Also,  xp feels fine until you hit around 40 then it takes too long to level.  

 

 

[arcane]

Unfortunately I don’t think we should be spending time solving problems that literally didn’t even exist until a couple of days ago when people upset about a small AE tweak fabricated a narrative about the rest of the game being too lame whilst flailing about in a blind rage.

[Andreah]

2 hours ago, arcane said:

Unfortunately I don’t think we should be spending time solving problems that literally didn’t even exist until a couple of days ago when people upset about a small AE tweak fabricated a narrative about the rest of the game being too lame whilst flailing about in a blind rage.

I doubt we'll spend any time on this, but I enjoy speculating on how things might be done. :)

[kelika2]

3 hours ago, Greycat said:

I've got to second this point, as well. Not all characters are tanks/brutes/scrappers.  Try to "encourage" me to kill all on my Ice/Emp 'troller? *shudder*  In addition, there are missions such as the ... I forget the name, the one where you verify B'nadek's information and are *specifically told* not to engage patrols or the two boss mobs, just look for four glowies. I *really* kind of wish we had more missions like that, which forced you to pay attention to what you were engaging rather than HULK SMASH everything.

Would you still like it if you had to repeat it many many many times?

 

[golstat2003]

2 hours ago, arcane said:

Unfortunately I don’t think we should be spending time solving problems that literally didn’t even exist until a couple of days ago when people upset about a small AE tweak fabricated a narrative about the rest of the game being too lame whilst flailing about in a blind rage.

I believe the devs are already reviewing how content rewards. I expect there will be some content reward buffs and nerfs whether we all like it or not. It’s as inevitable as the upcoming adjustments that will happen to procs and a few key powers that abuse the hell out of them.

 

Discussions and suggestions like this are a great help for the devs to see where some folks are coming from. This particular suggestion along with whatever changes are coming would be good to see.

 

I seem to also remember them saying a rewards review would be coming well before they started to work on hard mode content.

Edited July 15, 2022 by golstat2003

[arcane]

1 hour ago, golstat2003 said:

I believe the devs are already reviewing how content rewards. I expect there will be some content reward buffs and nerfs whether we all like it or not. It’s as inevitable as the upcoming adjustments that will happen to procs and a few key powers that abuse the hell out of them.

 

Discussions and suggestions like this are a great help for the devs to see where some folks are coming from. This particular suggestion along with whatever changes are coming would be good to see.

 

I seem to also remember them saying a rewards review would be coming well before they started to work on hard mode content.

Yes I am sure they will make some tweaks that work out nicely.

But the reason THIS thread exists is because a few people got to talking about how maybe if the rest of the game was more like AE, we wouldn’t have to be crying apocalypse right now. And THAT is not a theory worth entertaining IMO. Whatever we decide to do with AE, the base game is fun and doesn’t need to shift that dramatically.

Edited July 15, 2022 by arcane

[Rudra]

I'm scared to ask how they want the game to be more like AE....

...

...

Yeah... not gonna ask... don't want to know....

[biostem]

I'd like to see contacts in all zones created/updated, that offer repeatable "Kill X" missions for enemies that spawn outside in said zones.  Further, I'd like to see some areas in 50+ zones, updated to include level 54 enemies, (in the red sections and/or where applicable).

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, kelika2 said:

Would you still like it if you had to repeat it many many many times?

 

 Having missions where you had to specifically *not* defeat everything?

 

If used in good story context... yes.

 

[biostem]

2 hours ago, kelika2 said:

Would you still like it if you had to repeat it many many many times?

Sometimes you fail a mission - sometimes you have to read the mission description and adapt your strategy.  There are plenty "kill all" missions to go 'round...

[Darmian]

6 hours ago, Andreah said:

To be honest, I'd love to see XP globally reduced by about 5x. And maybe life made a little easier for soloers. Team steamrolling is hugely rewarded comparatively.

 

So long as the story completionists can continue to lock their xp at need, ofc.

Removing XP buffs from the TFV/P2W and reverting to "Double XP Weekends/Insert other time here" like on Live.*

 

*When I came back in 2019 I didn't know the buff existed and got to 50 the "normal" way, occasionally wondering if HC was ever going to do a double XP weekend.

[biostem]

6 hours ago, Andreah said:

To be honest, I'd love to see XP globally reduced by about 5x. And maybe life made a little easier for soloers. Team steamrolling is hugely rewarded comparatively.

I think this would backfire.  I think many people want to play a "fully realized" character in the 50+ content.  I think many of us, if not most of us, are veterans from the live days, who have already "paid our dues" the old-fashioned way, and would rather play our 50s that didn't take a lifetime to attain...

[golstat2003]

2 hours ago, arcane said:

Yes I am sure they will make some tweaks that work out nicely.

But the reason THIS thread exists is because a few people got to talking about how maybe if the rest of the game was more like AE, we wouldn’t have to be crying apocalypse right now. And THAT is not a theory worth entertaining IMO. Whatever we decide to do with AE, the base game is fun and doesn’t need to shift that dramatically.

The devs started the review of rewards long before this discussion of AE started, was my understanding. So there is going to be a change, and unless I misread no where did the OP say the rewards had to match AE. AE gives zero merit rewards.

 

EDIT: It gives (for now) emp merits which folks more often convert into incarnate components not reward merits.

Edited July 16, 2022 by golstat2003

[Rudra]

AE does not give Empyrean merits. It gives xp, including incarnate xp if you're level 50, and the vet levels you get from the xp give the Empyreans. If AE does give Empyreans, please tell me how. I could really use some more.

 

(Edit: Point being, it is not AE giving them. You would get those merits even if you leveled elsewhere.)

Edited July 16, 2022 by Rudra

[golstat2003]

That’s exactly what I meant. My point was that arcane was incorrect in saying the OP was asking for other content to give out rewards at the level that AE does. Which is sure as hell not what the OP of this suggestion said.

[Andreah]

44 minutes ago, biostem said:

I think this would backfire. 

You're right, it absolutely would backfire. I might believe I'd prefer it today in some ways, but I probably would regret it too after a while. 

[Andreah]

I'm not offering a personal judgment on whether boosting reward (or earnings, or whatever word we decide defines it) from specific content is needed or not, just proposing an outline of a means by which it might be done and not encourage repeating the same identical missions over and over. that's why I tied the rewards (or awards, or payments or earnings) to mission completion of a specific and identifiable class of missions.

 

And for a mission to give out rewards like this, in my proposal, at least someone can't ever do it again. Doing missions via oro wouldn't give the bonus. 

 

Maybe you would accumulate a bonus differently during the mission to account for stealthing (maybe a time-completion bonus that drops down so you complete mission quickly to get it instead of mob defeat bonuses -- it would award whichever was greater when you finished) Or want to emphasize salvage and recipe drops instead of XP, or whatever. I don't think those particulars matter much to the concept. 

 

But you can't get it until the mission completes, and only missions that can't be done again by the team leader qualify. It's not like the demon or freaks map where you jump out just before it would have completed and then reset to rinse and repeat. Ideally, the completion bonus would encourage people to complete their missions, and instead of running the same ones over and over, play a variety.

[arcane]

13 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

That’s exactly what I meant. My point was that arcane was incorrect in saying the OP was asking for other content to give out rewards at the level that AE does. Which is sure as hell not what the OP of this suggestion said.

 

On 7/15/2022 at 6:58 AM, Andreah said:

There's been a lot of concern recently voiced in the beta forums about how farming/AE rewards should not be lowered, but rather those from regular content should be increased. 

@golstat2003 I never said that was the OP’s exact proposal - only that some chatter along those lines is why the thread was created at this time. See receipts.
 

It might not be the case if this thread was created a month ago, but, in its current context, this thread was created because of AE babies losing their mind. 
 

I didn’t even weigh in on the OP’s specific proposal. I just don’t think that “because farmers are losing their minds” is a good reason to open this conversation in general. 
 

The devs may very well want to implement this proposal or others. I just didn’t like the smell of this proposal coming on the heels of a bunch of emotional blackmail from people threatening to quit the game over one specific breed of vet level farming.

 

Hope that’s cleared up.

Edited July 16, 2022 by arcane